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EVE is a pyramid scheme

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Praleon Gallente Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2009.09.29 00:26:00 - [1] Why am I posting this? Because EVE spammed my inbox and turned my account back on for a day, and because of another thread where this issue came up. Define Pyramid Scheme: For the purposes of this exposition, I am defining a pyramid scheme as something that highly rewards people based more on money than on "skill". How is that different from other MMOs? By scale, primarily. Other MMOs have a very easy to reach "cap"... after which, improvement slows down tremendously. The industry standard for this is 2-3 months. EVE has no "Actual" cap, but you'll need 6-12 months (as quoted on this thread) of PURE COMBAT TRAINING in order to be cogently useful in PVP (outside of constructing your own micro-battles via venues such as a Red vs Blue corporation). The only caveat to this is that you can make yourself useful by zerging with large numbers of other low SP players, but this is dubious. Now... instead of just saying this myself, since my own credibility could be brought into question, I shall quote people of similar opinion from around the web: "soulwynd writes: It's a scam playground. Whoever has paid longer will always have better skills than who hasn't. " "moo writes: What the game needs is a SP cap like SWG where you can only train so many skills at the same time and if you want to learn something new and hit the cap then you have to drop skills and train new things. Obviously this will mean skill train times to drop and things to be changed with the current skill system to suit but this is needed as the current system rewards veterans too much and harms new players. The only thing that should really be the difference of new players and veterans is experience with the game." "CA writes: In three tries I have never had any interaction with other players other than being attacked by veterans because I was a ônoob.ö Yea, like I want to pay money to be creamed by a bunch of schoolyard bullies who live in mom and dadÆs basement playing with their spaceships all day." "JohnF writes: In reading the comments, it seems EVE is a game for elitists. These are the same people that though incredibly smart and will probably build your next iPhone; they feel awkward in real life and have retreated to an online universe where they have the illusion of power. This is the reason any criticism of the game in this forum is greeted with derision and personal insults." "Eve Gamer posts: ItÆs literally full of power trip no lifers who do nothing but play internet spaceships and simply can not see how stupid the whole thing is. Posting endless ôyouÆre stupid and iÆm so smartö comments places like this.. really guys, if youÆre so damn smart why are you wasting your lives like you are? Bottom line, this game isnÆt that popular and itÆs not because weÆre all stupid. Wow is incredibly popular and most eve players will tell you that wow is childish, cartoony rubbish that only stupid people play. HereÆs the truth, eve is an intersting concept, but it IS deeply flawed and it IS extremly slow and boring 99% of the time. The 1% when itÆs interesting, itÆs very intersting, but reallyà is it worth it?" So all that out of the way: CCP, stop putting things in my Inbox. Your game does not appeal to me any longer, until you DRASTICALLY change it. I do not drink the skill-points-over-time kool-aid. Done with your pyramid. Done with your veterans. Done playing with "elitists" who actually get to back up their claims of awesomeness with "purchased" skill points. Every time you put mail in my Inbox, I will: 1) Come here and post negative comments about the game, indicating what needs to be changed before I will play. 2) Support blogs that report EVE as a negative game that rewards elitism and pyramid-esque power-for-money. 3) Post on my own blog an article outlining reasons that EVE is inferior to upcoming sci-fi MMOs in concept and execution. Thank you. It was a fun 12 months. The other months? Borefest. -P Praleon CEO Judgement Klan Corporation
Neo Omni Gallente	Posted - 2009.09.29 00:31:00 - [2] EVE is an investment in time...that's obvious. So those at the game longer are rewarded for sticking it out.
Tuscanspeed Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2009.09.29 00:33:00 - [3] There are lots of issues with EvE. The skill set up is not one of them. ---------------------------------------------- Never have been. Never will be. An Alt.
Warrio GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.09.29 00:33:00 - [4] Originally by: Praleon The only caveat to this is that you can make yourself useful by zerging with large numbers of other low SP players, but this is dubious. Yeah, that would never work. Anywho, you have successfully proven that people on the internet have opinions. -
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.09.29 00:35:00 - [5] EVE-1 n00b-0 Btw loved the testimonials in the middle of the poast. You have a strong future as a political mudslinging spin writer. Quote: [03:39:05] Emperor Salazar > HOLY **** ITS ZEBA [03:39:20] Emperor Salazar > NEVER STOP POASTING Zeba is the BEST! ~Mitnal
Serge Bastana Gallente GWA Corp	Posted - 2009.09.29 00:35:00 - [6] Or what you could do is if you are seriously fed up with receiving mails from CCP is mark them as spam like most other people would. Seems a much more sensible option to me really ------------------------------------------------ You either need a punch up the throat or a good shag. Nobody round here is offering the second one therefore your choices are limited!
Praleon Gallente Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2009.09.29 00:39:00 - [7] Originally by: Serge Bastana Or what you could do is if you are seriously fed up with receiving mails from CCP is mark them as spam like most other people would. Seems a much more sensible option to me really Sensible just isn't cut-throat enough for me. You garner my attention on a sick-day, you get owned. By the way, I regenerate if you don't kill me with fire. Praleon CEO Judgement Klan Corporation
Obsidian Hawk RONA Corporation	Posted - 2009.09.29 00:40:00 - [8] buys Zeba pizza You know if it's guys like him that were in the gallente millitia, no wonder they lost FW. -------------------------- WTB a sig, or moderation of my sig by all the hot CCP girls.
Nyphur Pillowsoft Total Comfort	Posted - 2009.09.29 00:45:00 - [9] Originally by: Praleon Define Pyramid Scheme: For the purposes of this exposition, I am defining a pyramid scheme as something that highly rewards people based more on money than on "skill". That is in no way, shape or form what a pyramid scheme is. Pyramid schemes are deals in which each person only gets a reward after getting several people signed up to the same deal. It's like the "free iphone" crap that's spammed all over the internet currently. You sign up, take a free trial of something and then you have to get 10-20 other people to do the same. But each of those 10-20 people also wants a free iphone and they have to introduce yet another 10-20 each. For each individual, the idea of getting 10 other people to sign up by convincing them they can get a free iphone is feasible. For the system as a hole, it's utterly unsustainable. I believe you've just used the term "pyramid scheme" to sensationalise your post. EVE-Tanking.com - Helping you keep your hull in-tact.
Praleon Gallente Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2009.09.29 00:45:00 - [10] Originally by: Obsidian Hawk buys Zeba pizza You know if it's guys like him that were in the gallente millitia, no wonder they lost FW. Had nothing to do with the Caldari population. Nothing. I promise. The odds were totally even in every way. There aren't any huge mathematical benefits to Caldari based ships compared to Gallente ships, either... none at all. EVE is the most fair and balanced game ever made. Clearly the gallente militia lost because everyone that clicks gallente at character creation is obviously a bad player. It's inherent in choosing a race. It says it on the starting screen, "Warning, if you choose a gallente race and fly gallente ships, you will fail at EVE and lose battles against the Caldari." The most hilarious thing about your post is that it indicates that you either: A) Paid attention to the progress of an online video game's pitched virtual war(sad). B) Cared about A (really, really sad and pitiful) C) Were involved and achieved a sense of pride in being victorious in A. (tear rolls down cheek I'm so sorry). Praleon CEO Judgement Klan Corporation
Serge Bastana Gallente GWA Corp	Posted - 2009.09.29 00:46:00 - [11] Originally by: Praleon Originally by: Serge Bastana Or what you could do is if you are seriously fed up with receiving mails from CCP is mark them as spam like most other people would. Seems a much more sensible option to me really Sensible just isn't cut-throat enough for me. You garner my attention on a sick-day, you get owned. By the way, I regenerate if you don't kill me with fire. I'm a little curious, but not that much, as to what that really means, but you've expressed opinions you say are shared by others, fine, move on, no problem. Thanks for sharing. ------------------------------------------------ You either need a punch up the throat or a good shag. Nobody round here is offering the second one therefore your choices are limited!
Typhado3 Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Aeternus.	Posted - 2009.09.29 00:47:00 - [12] you complain against the mmo 'racism' that is done by eve players saying they are smarter than everyone...... and yet your whole argument is based on profiling eve players as elitist anti-social *******s. so mmo 'racism' only true when the argument works for your side huh? good mudslinging argument going on here. FAKE EDIT: there's gotta be a better word for describing 'racism' between groups that are seperated by an ideology or activity. ------------------------------ Just a crazy inventor ccp fix mining agent missions % pls
Cpt Branko The Scope	Posted - 2009.09.29 00:49:00 - [13] Originally by: Praleon Why am I posting this? Because you're a sad little troll. "CCP spammed my Inbox". If it bothered you, you'd have simply blocked mails from CCP. Therefore, you're here because you like to whine about your incompetence, and quote whines from other random people. You won't be missed. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Professor Tarantula Hedion University	Posted - 2009.09.29 00:51:00 - [14] Originally by: Praleon Define Pyramid Scheme: For the purposes of this exposition, I am defining a pyramid scheme as something that highly rewards people based more on money than on "skill". Haha, You can't just make up your own definitions. Sorry. Look up pyramid scheme. If the only way to gain skillpoints was recruiting other people into EVE, then it would be one.
Erik Amirault Gallente 543	Posted - 2009.09.29 00:51:00 - [15] Originally by: Praleon ... So all that out of the way: CCP, stop putting things in my Inbox. Your game does not appeal to me any longer, until you DRASTICALLY change it. I do not drink the skill-points-over-time kool-aid. Done with your pyramid. Done with your veterans. Done playing with "elitists" who actually get to back up their claims of awesomeness with "purchased" skill points. Every time you put mail in my Inbox, I will: 1) Come here and post negative comments about the game, indicating what needs to be changed before I will play. 2) Support blogs that report EVE as a negative game that rewards elitism and pyramid-esque power-for-money. 3) Post on my own blog an article outlining reasons that EVE is inferior to upcoming sci-fi MMOs in concept and execution. Thank you. It was a fun 12 months. The other months? Borefest. -P So... you're done with a game. You can't be assed to go through account management and turn off receiving promotional emails, but you CAN be assed to pay $15 to spam the forums for receiving the mail. Holy ****, I need the drugs you're on. I don't need the whole "hit head with hammer" thing you seem to have going on, but whatever drugs you're on... damn, those could really go a long way. Oh, and 0/10 for troll.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.09.29 00:53:00 - [16] Originally by: Serge Bastana Originally by: Praleon Originally by: Serge Bastana Or what you could do is if you are seriously fed up with receiving mails from CCP is mark them as spam like most other people would. Seems a much more sensible option to me really Sensible just isn't cut-throat enough for me. You garner my attention on a sick-day, you get owned. By the way, I regenerate if you don't kill me with fire. I'm a little curious, but not that much, as to what that really means, but you've expressed opinions you say are shared by others, fine, move on, no problem. Thanks for sharing. I think what he was trying to say is that on a day he was sick and didn't go to work and felt all awful the burger stand would go without his meat patty forming expertise he opened up an e-mail from a game that dredged up memories that really made him feel awful and impotent. So to vent his ire he used the one day activation to come here and troll to make himself feel better and maybe get some closure on a time of his life that left deep scars of inadequacy and shame. Simple as that really so I give the op a 10/10. Quote: [03:39:05] Emperor Salazar > HOLY **** ITS ZEBA [03:39:20] Emperor Salazar > NEVER STOP POASTING Zeba is the BEST! ~Mitnal
GAdm Tyrael Rum Runners and T2 Ducktape	Posted - 2009.09.29 01:01:00 - [17] Alright... This is about 2-week old toon, I however been playing since the MC paintrain to the north, due to complications I've lost my original character and thus I'm forced to restart. In these weeks so far I've managed to get to around 1.8mill sp in learning skills with the help of the remap, toons now start with. Which I can tell you confidently I a two week old toon have more learning skills then most veterans, who've been around for years. Now you may look at this as a poor arguement, but follow me here... Give me another two weeks, and I'll have better t2 med drone skills then most... Not following me here? Give me a month, I'll be killing countless in a thorax... When you see veterans telling you to specialize, this is what they mean, It took me to loose an old character to see that. I do not need to fly frigates, I dun need to fly battleships, I'll fly the ships I love and nothing else. As sp can only increase a ships strength by so much before that ship is at its peak and the only thing that can increase the effectiveness of said ships are the modules you fit on it, and of course yourself. After that your pouring sp into whatever else suits your fancy. Older players only have more stuff to use, effectively? is another matter. I know people who have countless sp in all sorts of things, but prefer to fly only a couple of ships, kinda makes you thing why did you even put skills into that other stuff then? Well again it wasn't until I lost my old character that I see this now, trial and error I guess, and take note to the people who say to specialize, theirs more truth in it then you know.
Henri LeChasseur	Posted - 2009.09.29 01:38:00 - [18] Your face is a pyramid scheme. How you like me now, op?
Governor LePetomane Rock Ridge Brokerage Solutions	Posted - 2009.09.29 01:47:00 - [19] Originally by: Praleon Define Pyramid Scheme: For the purposes of this exposition, I am defining a pyramid scheme as something that highly rewards people based more on money than on "skill". For purposes of this post, I am defining a "chocolate cake" as any of a species of small, furry rodent native to the steppes of western Asia.
Stuart Price Caldari The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2009.09.29 01:52:00 - [20] Originally by: GAdm Tyrael Alright... This is about 2-week old toon, I however been playing since the MC paintrain to the north, due to complications I've lost my original character and thus I'm forced to restart. In these weeks so far I've managed to get to around 1.8mill sp in learning skills with the help of the remap, toons now start with. Which I can tell you confidently I a two week old toon have more learning skills then most veterans, who've been around for years. Now you may look at this as a poor arguement, but follow me here... Give me another two weeks, and I'll have better t2 med drone skills then most... Not following me here? Give me a month, I'll be killing countless in a thorax... When you see veterans telling you to specialize, this is what they mean, It took me to loose an old character to see that. I do not need to fly frigates, I dun need to fly battleships, I'll fly the ships I love and nothing else. As sp can only increase a ships strength by so much before that ship is at its peak and the only thing that can increase the effectiveness of said ships are the modules you fit on it, and of course yourself. After that your pouring sp into whatever else suits your fancy. Older players only have more stuff to use, effectively? is another matter. I know people who have countless sp in all sorts of things, but prefer to fly only a couple of ships, kinda makes you thing why did you even put skills into that other stuff then? Well again it wasn't until I lost my old character that I see this now, trial and error I guess, and take note to the people who say to specialize, theirs more truth in it then you know. This. All KINDS of this. Putting the 'irate' into 'Pirate'
Serge Bastana Gallente GWA Corp	Posted - 2009.09.29 01:53:00 - [21] If I define my overdraft as a purely conjectural omnipotent deity who's very existence is based on folklore and myth handed down from generation to generation, will that make it go away? closes eyes and wishes really hard ------------------------------------------------ You either need a punch up the throat or a good shag. Nobody round here is offering the second one therefore your choices are limited!
Gsptlsnz	Posted - 2009.09.29 01:56:00 - [22] OP explained the majority view of EvE accurately. What he didn't explore is the consequence: EvE attracts and holds exactly the kind of player that likes the game. EvE players may be the sewer rats of online gaming, but they've worked hard to achieve this, and they're proud to be alone at the bottom of the heap.
Ticarus Hellbrandt	Posted - 2009.09.29 01:57:00 - [23] can i haz your stuff
Hroya Gallente TerraNovae	Posted - 2009.09.29 02:08:00 - [24] You focus to much on what others can and/or have instead of doing what you can and take it from there.
Khemul Zula Amarr Keisen Trade League	Posted - 2009.09.29 02:11:00 - [25] Originally by: Governor LePetomane Originally by: Praleon Define Pyramid Scheme: For the purposes of this exposition, I am defining a pyramid scheme as something that highly rewards people based more on money than on "skill". For purposes of this post, I am defining a "chocolate cake" as any of a species of small, furry rodent native to the steppes of western Asia. Well if you baked the rodent and covered it in frosting... Damnit now I'm hungry.
Intense Thinker Minmatar	Posted - 2009.09.29 02:21:00 - [26] Edited by: Intense Thinker on 29/09/2009 02:23:04 Edited by: Intense Thinker on 29/09/2009 02:20:55 Ok, read the whine... JohnF is wrong though... I spend my weekends in my favorite goth/industrial clubs and have no problems fitting in with people and kissing girls on the mouth Originally by: Hamshoe Don't **** down my back and tell me it's raining.
Serenthris Landry	Posted - 2009.09.29 02:47:00 - [27] Edited by: Serenthris Landry on 29/09/2009 02:54:36 Praleon. I can only suggest that you give up games, MMOs or whatever. Any of them, just. Give. Up. Because: There will always be people that started the game before you and are therefore, better than you. There will always be those have more time to play than you and are therefore, better than you. There will always be players who have more money to waste and are therefore, better than you There will always be people who enjoy cheating at games and are therefore, better than you. There will always be those that will enjoy something more than you and are therefore, better than you. Your overwhelming negativity is what has destroyed this game for you. I understand you don't like it... so what? why the hell should I care? I have nothing but sympathy for you and whatever it is that has driven you to railing at faceless nobodies on the internet. Poor, poor Praleon.
Amanda Mor	Posted - 2009.09.29 02:48:00 - [28] Originally by: Governor LePetomane For purposes of this post, I am defining a "chocolate cake" as any of a species of small, furry rodent native to the steppes of western Asia. You know what Governor, screw you! I thought my correction of his definition of "pyramid scheme" in the other idiotic thread he started was pretty decent, but then you write this and make me look stupid. ITT: someone who got burned in the Bernie Madoff scandal, and thinks that everything he encounters is some form of pyramid scheme. Seriously, look up words you don't understand before making up your own definitions. If everyone did that, amarchy would break out, and only senior citizens with the most life experience would have a chance...
Governor LePetomane Rock Ridge Brokerage Solutions	Posted - 2009.09.29 03:26:00 - [29] Originally by: Amanda Mor You know what Governor, screw you! Thanks, I get that a lot.
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2009.09.29 03:43:00 - [30] Originally by: Praleon Define Pyramid Scheme: For the purposes of this exposition, I am defining a pyramid scheme as something that highly rewards people based more on money than on "skill". You can't make up definitions for existing words. "Pyramid scheme" is clearly defined and is not EVE-ONLINE. I'll admit that when I was a noob I thought sp >>>experience and skill but then I mopped the floor with 2x 4+ year old chars with my 6 month old char and got over it. Thousands of others have learned the same thing. But instead, the OP has emo-quit and is so upset at being killed in a pvp video game that he will not let it go and continues to whine and cry like a 5 year old. Good ridance. Also, never procreate with your wuss genes. Originally by: CCP Whisper So you're going to have to do some actual thinking with regards to hull components and their capabilities instead of copying some cookie-cutter setup. Cry some more.

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