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Fabio Bittar
Spearheads of Bronze
0
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Posted - 2012.06.07 17:59:00 -
[1] - Quote
To CCP,
(I'll be writing to Apple later)
I'll keep this short. You should drop the Mac Client. This is a scam. Customers see Eve Online on Apple's website and immediately feel like it's a quality product for the Mac, but it is not. It's not even an OS X application. This is a scam.
If you can't make it work, please have some decency, admit it and walk away. I may be only one man, but I am one man to tell everybody I know that you stole from me. Hopefully, other people feel the same way.
Fabio. |
Solana Dal'Annae
Silverleaf Industries
0
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Posted - 2012.06.07 18:36:00 -
[2] - Quote
Fabio Bittar wrote:To CCP,
(I'll be writing to Apple later)
I'll keep this short. You should drop the Mac Client. Customers see Eve Online on Apple's website and immediately feel like it's a quality product for the Mac, but it is not. It's not even an OS X application.
Fabio. I have a 4.5 year old Mac and it still runs EVE well, in MacOS X mind you.
There have been periods when things haven't worked great, but overall, this has been rare. I would be very sad if I CCP stopped maintaining the Mac version of the game.
Feel free to elaborate on why it being or not being a (extrapolating) native OS X application is important. |
Fabio Bittar
Spearheads of Bronze
0
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Posted - 2012.06.07 18:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
Solana Dal'Annae wrote:Fabio Bittar wrote:To CCP,
(I'll be writing to Apple later)
I'll keep this short. You should drop the Mac Client. Customers see Eve Online on Apple's website and immediately feel like it's a quality product for the Mac, but it is not. It's not even an OS X application.
Fabio. I have a 4.5 year old Mac and it still runs EVE well, in MacOS X mind you. There have been periods when things haven't worked great, but overall, this has been rare. I would be very sad if I CCP stopped maintaining the Mac version of the game. Feel free to elaborate on why it being or not being a (extrapolating) native OS X application is important.
From what I've read in these forums, the Wine wrapper is maintained by a third-party, not CCP. Also, they advertise it as Mac software, or at the very least, they show you a Macbook Pro running Eve without saying it's a Windows application running through a Wine wrapper, which is misleading customers to believe this is native software. It is not, and it is not stable.
That's as elaborate an explanation as I can give you right now. |
Dersen Lowery
Children of Armok Ushra'Khan
33
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 20:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
For me, this is very simple: In order to run Windows on EVE, I'd have to buy and install and maintain Windows. I have no other reason to do so, and absolutely no desire to do so.
The day I can't run EVE on a Mac--in a WINE wrapper, or however--is the day I stop playing. |
Kilen Hurley
The Drag00ns
0
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Posted - 2012.06.07 22:29:00 -
[5] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:For me, this is very simple: In order to run Windows on EVE, I'd have to buy and install and maintain Windows. I have no other reason to do so, and absolutely no desire to do so.
The day I can't run EVE on a Mac--in a WINE wrapper, or however--is the day I stop playing. SO TRUE!
Eve runs really good on my iMac, but it does start to feel a bit sluggish on my macbook air.
Why isn't eve a native mac application? |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
696
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Posted - 2012.06.07 23:04:00 -
[6] - Quote
The situation is even worse for me. My MBP is provided free by work, and they want all laptop users to always be using their company computer. As a result they allow game playing on it. But its also automatically backed up by the company backup system. That system cannot backup a bootcamp partition. So, unless required for work and there is no other option: no bootcamp. The result: Either there is some form of Eve on a Mac, or I would have to buy a computer for the singular purpose of eve, or I'd just stop playing (the likely outcome).
Also eve is quite playable for me. I hit one of the annoying bugs (freeze, sticky mouse) once or twice a week. I sure do not want it to go away.
But I also sure would like a native version of it. The graphics would be so much faster!
Edit: its not native now because it would be a huge development effort, and an ongoing effort to maintain it as expansions are rolled out. I'm not convinced CCP has done the economic trade study properly on if its worth it. A native version would attract and retain many more Mac users and could well pay for its development. Even the inde game "Aquaria" has both a PC and a Mac version, and it was written by a grand total of 2 people. It cannot be that hard. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
The Legendary Soldier
Viziam Amarr Empire
4
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Posted - 2012.06.08 10:18:00 -
[7] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:For me, this is very simple: In order to run Windows on EVE, I'd have to buy and install and maintain Windows. I have no other reason to do so, and absolutely no desire to do so.
The day I can't run EVE on a Mac--in a WINE wrapper, or however--is the day I stop playing.
This.
It runs ok on my imac - i would like it to run better.
But I will not buy a windows computer, or install windows on my mac for any reason - even if that means I cannot play.
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Dersen Lowery
Children of Armok Ushra'Khan
36
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Posted - 2012.06.12 15:58:00 -
[8] - Quote
Kilen Hurley wrote:Why isn't eve a native mac application?
Vincent touched on it, broadly; the specific answer is that they use Microsoft's DirectX for graphics, and OS X uses OpenGL.
The two are different, and DirectX tends to be a little farther ahead because it's not maintained by a multi-company standards committee, but the people on the DirectX board include game programmers who try to keep it from being too different because that makes their lives harder.
There are other options besides a WINE wrapper; there are plenty of companies that have experience porting games over, and robust DirectX->OpenGL translation layers (there are some other little bits that would have to change, but AFAIK nothing major). However, these probably cost CCP more money than TransGaming's solution, and it would mean a possible delay in the Mac client every time there was a significant change to the Windows client.
The ultimate solution would be for CCP to write their own OpenGL layer and ship a DirectX build to Windows and OpenGL to Mac (and Linux), but I'm not holding my breath on that one.
The real, ultimate solution to this is more Mac users playing EVE. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
715
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Posted - 2012.06.12 20:08:00 -
[9] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:..............
The ultimate solution would be for CCP to write their own OpenGL layer and ship a DirectX build to Windows and OpenGL to Mac (and Linux), but I'm not holding my breath on that one.
The real, ultimate solution to this is more Mac users playing EVE.
Or one client with both DirectX and OpenGL calls, and the client just uses whichever one is appropriate for the OS.
Will OpenGL work on a PC? At all? Could CCP drop DirectX, do everything in OpenGL and have it work for everyone? http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Dersen Lowery
Children of Armok Ushra'Khan
36
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Posted - 2012.06.12 20:56:00 -
[10] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Dersen Lowery wrote:..............
The ultimate solution would be for CCP to write their own OpenGL layer and ship a DirectX build to Windows and OpenGL to Mac (and Linux), but I'm not holding my breath on that one.
The real, ultimate solution to this is more Mac users playing EVE. Or one client with both DirectX and OpenGL calls, and the client just uses whichever one is appropriate for the OS. Will OpenGL work on a PC? At all? Could CCP drop DirectX, do everything in OpenGL and have it work for everyone?
It'll work if someone writes a driver for it, sure. The problem is that I don't know who does--I haven't given graphics programming a serious look in years--or whether it's free. DirectX is, of course, installed on Windows for free. Hard to compete with that.
Add in that OpenGL is usually playing catch-up on the features front, and sometimes by a year or two; that if a game company advertises a graphics job they're probably going to get 100 DirectX programmers for every OpenGL programmer for reasons that are older than EVE, and; that a significant majority of the EVE player base runs the Windows client.
CCP is a small company. Asking them to hire a fairly hard-to-find team of programmers to essentially duplicate the effort that their existing teams have already put in, on behalf of a stark minority of the player base, is a bit rich. It's just not going to happen.
In fact, I would answer this thread by saying that if you want a better Mac client, run the Mac client. The more visible we are, the more justified CCP is in catering to us.
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Pak Narhoo
Knights of Kador
556
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Posted - 2012.06.13 10:20:00 -
[11] - Quote
Fabio Bittar wrote:To CCP,
(I'll be writing to Apple later)
I'll keep this short. You should drop the Mac Client. Customers see Eve Online on Apple's website and immediately feel like it's a quality product for the Mac, but it is not. It's not even an OS X application.
Fabio.
How so incredibly egoistic from you.
If you have such big problems forcing you over the dark side fine, but don't push that crap upon us, or at the least me. I'm fine with the Mac client, tough it has some problems now, which I think they'll eventually fix as they have always done.
The day the Mac client goes the way the Linux client went, some part of me will die.
Hi, I'm CCP Arrow, I screwed up the.. ummm...-á[ CCP, back to the usual old arrogance that spawned the Incarna riots.] |
Doc Deeb
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
3
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Posted - 2012.06.13 10:57:00 -
[12] - Quote
Fabio Bittar wrote:Solana Dal'Annae wrote:Fabio Bittar wrote:To CCP,
(I'll be writing to Apple later)
I'll keep this short. You should drop the Mac Client. Customers see Eve Online on Apple's website and immediately feel like it's a quality product for the Mac, but it is not. It's not even an OS X application.
Fabio. I have a 4.5 year old Mac and it still runs EVE well, in MacOS X mind you. There have been periods when things haven't worked great, but overall, this has been rare. I would be very sad if I CCP stopped maintaining the Mac version of the game. Feel free to elaborate on why it being or not being a (extrapolating) native OS X application is important. From what I've read in these forums, the Wine wrapper is maintained by a third-party, not CCP. Also, they advertise it as Mac software, or at the very least, they show you a Macbook Pro running Eve without saying it's a Windows application running through a Wine wrapper, which is misleading customers to believe this is native software. It is not, and it is not stable. That's as elaborate an explanation as I can give you right now.
So software companies never use 3rd party components without telling you?... wake up and smell the roses.
I for one dont support this petition, if anything going by the global Mac sales there should be the complete opposite - a petition to improve the client and actually market it.
I have a 2008 24" iMac, only issues i face these days is the inability to extend it beyond 6Gb ram so i can tripple box again. Yes as solana stated there's been a few ups and downs along the way but i've been playing for 6+ years, i'd rather not see it come to an end because someone questions the authenticity of the code base. |
Dersen Lowery
Children of Armok Ushra'Khan
36
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 19:27:00 -
[13] - Quote
Doc Deeb wrote:So software companies never use 3rd party components without telling you?... wake up and smell the roses.
And certainly never for Mac games. I can't think of a single third-party port. *cough*
Doc Deeb wrote:I for one dont support this petition, if anything going by the global Mac sales there should be the complete opposite - a petition to improve the client and actually market it.
Indeed. A few years ago, there were about 25 million of us. Now, there are 66 million. Now is not the time to throw in the towel. |
Luh Windan
S T R A T C O M Persona Non Gratis
64
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Posted - 2012.06.15 09:56:00 -
[14] - Quote
Dear CPP Please ignore the OP
Yes you could improve the Mac client I am sure and yes - I would love a native client - but it is far unuseable - I frequently run 2 or 3 client instances (for my 3 paid for accounts) on my iMac. Its a bit more unstable on my Macbook air but still good enough for me to play for long periods on it.
if the mac ciient was discontinued I would have to stop playing completely (I refuse to dual boot my machines - too inconvenient)
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Rafael Argus
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.06.16 00:50:00 -
[15] - Quote
Fabio Bittar wrote:To CCP,
(I'll be writing to Apple later)
I'll keep this short. You should drop the Mac Client. Customers see Eve Online on Apple's website and immediately feel like it's a quality product for the Mac, but it is not. It's not even an OS X application.
Fabio.
There is no way that I can support this at all. I purchased my first Intel-based Mac the day the EVE Online Mac client shipped, and have been playing EVE Online on various Macs ever since, with hardly ever a problem. (Mostly, Captains Quarters poor performance, but that affects Windows too, and the portraits issue have been my largest complaints.) I now run it on four different Macs, going back to a 2006 24" iMac running OS 10.7, to a 2011 27" iMac running OS 10.6. And a 2009 MacBook Pro running either 10.6 or 10.7.
I've only had one or two problems with updating the client, and usually, relaunching the launcher fixes the problem the first time. (Well, it always has, actually. And I've only had that problem once, across the 3 Macs I commonly use for EVE.)
Could the performance of EVE Online for Macs be better? You bet. Would I prefer a native Mac OS X client? You bet.
I'm sorry that a number of people have had very poor experiences with EVE Online on their Macs, but that hasn't been my personal experience, nor the experiences of a number of other players I know who usually use Macs.
CCP, please keep improving the Mac EVE Online client, I like being able to play this game. However, I do wish you had a larger, or more consistent presence on the Macintosh forum. You do need to be better at communications. |
Christa Larne
Seniors Clan Get Off My Lawn
1
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 07:26:00 -
[16] - Quote
+1 to the continuation of the Mac client, despite its limitations. After 4 years as a Mac user I would rather stick needles in my eyes than go back to a Windows machine. |
asariss
Heroes Of Nowhere
0
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Posted - 2012.06.21 21:50:00 -
[17] - Quote
I Would just like to add that i got back into eve after seeing the apple website screenshot of eve, i thought it must run AMAZINGLY well for apple to endorse it like that. We where all wrong.
My main machine is a 2011 MPB 17inch fully loaded with a Radeon 6750 8 gigs of ram and a hybrid HDD. Not to mention a core i7 with 4 cores and another 4 hyper threads. Even with nothing but eve open the experience is pitiful. Im forever afraid of a dc because the client is unable to handle the items being drawn on the screen. Its almost as if its trying to play the game on 1 core and the intel 3000 graphics card my macbook is fitted with for power savings.
My oldest PC from 2005 with 1/8 the specs beats my 3000 dollar laptop playing eve.... This is a major issue and something that has plauged this client since i started playing in 2009
Get rid of the mac client if your unwilling to resolve these massive flaws. As a mac person that truly pains me to say. |
Psichotic
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
19
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Posted - 2012.06.23 09:44:00 -
[18] - Quote
You will experience just as many bugs running Eve on a Windows machine.
What a ridiculous thread. |
Lephia Phoenix
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.06.23 18:53:00 -
[19] - Quote
Please CCP keep the Mac Port alive!
We know we are a minor Base but we are not the AppStore Zombies what most of the other Users call us. |
Invisusira
The Rising Stars The Volition Cult
72
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Posted - 2012.06.24 01:48:00 -
[20] - Quote
Psichotic wrote:You will experience just as many bugs running Eve on a Windows machine.
What a ridiculous thread. Bugs? Sure, probably. Basic performance issues? Absolutely not.
Edit: not saying they should drop the Mac client or any such nonsense; just plainly stating that it is factually inferior to the Windows client. |
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Raketefrau
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
17
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Posted - 2012.06.24 14:01:00 -
[21] - Quote
Been using the Mac client for 3-4 years now.
Quite happy with it.
Do us a favor and don't deign to speak for tens of thousands of other people whom you have not consulted. |
Easthir Ravin
Easy Co. Fatal Ascension
35
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Posted - 2012.06.24 16:27:00 -
[22] - Quote
Greetings
I have been playing through the Transgaming Wine wrapper since 2008, sure there have been up's and down's but I would not have it any other way. Not sure as to the motivation for the Post wether anti-Mac, anti-transgaming, or anti-CCP, I sure support the efforts of transgaming to continue the work! Kudos all around.
CCP please disregard an obvious attempt to discredit the efforts of a partner by a blatant Awoxer. Don't hate your computer...clear your cash...shove in more memory and press on!
vr East IN THE IMORTAL WORDS OF SOCRATES: -á" I drank WHAT?!" |
Raiz Nhell
DEEP CORPS
136
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Posted - 2012.06.25 00:59:00 -
[23] - Quote
Never used the Windows client.... Never want to use the Windows Client...
EVE has always run fine on all of my Apples... A 4yr old MacPro (30inchs of EVE goodness)... a 2yr old Macbook Pro and and brand new 11inch MacBook Air...
There is no such thing as a fair fight...
If your fighting fair you have automatically put yourself at a disadvantage. |
Dunbar Hulan
The Suicide Kings Test Alliance Please Ignore
76
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Posted - 2012.06.27 13:56:00 -
[24] - Quote
Well, after spending thousands of dollars on a top of the line 27 ' imac .And then being faced with having to use the lowest graphics settings to get a decent frame rate, I back the OP. This is waste of time. Where's the response from CCP in fixing the frame rate issue? Answer ? nothing, nada, zip.
"Try this, tweek that, change this, blah blah blah" Tired of it all, just either ix it or don't, admit you can't or can and will. -á-áManchester United - Paul Scholes= Genius |
Gandin Grothe
United Allegiance of Undesirables
0
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Posted - 2012.06.28 06:00:00 -
[25] - Quote
I'm running three clients, no problems. |
asariss
Heroes Of Nowhere
0
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Posted - 2012.06.28 14:10:00 -
[26] - Quote
Dunbar Hulan wrote:Well, after spending thousands of dollars on a top of the line 27 ' imac .And then being faced with having to use the lowest graphics settings to get a decent frame rate, I back the OP. This is waste of time. Where's the response from CCP in fixing the frame rate issue? Answer ? nothing, nada, zip.
"Try this, tweek that, change this, blah blah blah" Tired of it all, just either ix it or don't, admit you can't or can and will.
Whats next ? "Guys, we need you to unscrew the back of your I macs and cut the blue wire, we think this might fix it." Where's the sense of urgency ? where's the feedback ? What other Industry would have this farcical level of client engagement ?
I have been talking with gm's as i have a 2011 MBP 17 with a radeon 6750 and have the same problems. It appears that they dont test or worry about the people that have the higher end systems. The gm said to me that there is a known problems with my graphics card and then suggested i update the driver's from intel and amd and use windows update ..... the mac support guy gave me windows instructions.
My laptop has been out over a year now and there telling me there is no support for my card. This is unacceptable. I dont care how few ppl have a mac with my specs, it should just work as it does for windows. People buy these computers for supposedly the performance, whether that be photo editing, movie work or playing a "native" game.
I could understand if i had a new computer that came out 3 weeks ago. but my computer is now 2 generations behind and still no support from CCP.
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Ivana Twinkle
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
261
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Posted - 2012.06.28 16:31:00 -
[27] - Quote
Fabio Bittar wrote:
From what I've read in these forums, the Wine wrapper is maintained by a third-party, not CCP. Also, they advertise it as Mac software, or at the very least, they show you a Macbook Pro running Eve without saying it's a Windows application running through a Wine wrapper, which is misleading customers to believe this is native software. It is not, and it is not stable.
That's as elaborate an explanation as I can give you right now.
What you're saying is that you've never even tried. Most of the time it's fine for regular duties, if not fleet fights on my macbook air. |
Fabio Bittar
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.07.01 02:21:00 -
[28] - Quote
Hi, this is the OP. I am here to clarify a few points as people have been making all kinds of absurd assumptions:
1) I own a Macbook Pro 2011, an iPad, iPhone and an iMac 2010. So no, I am not a Mac hater.
2) I used to own a Dell laptop with M$ Windows - I also have had plenty of experience with Windows in the past, and I have owned several PCs running Windows (from Win95 to 7) in my life. So I am not a Windows hater, either. I just happen to prefer Mac OS X (which is "Darwin", a derivate product of FreeBSD.. but whatever.. what matters is that I personally think OS X - and Cocoa - is a billion years ahead of Windows).
3) What I am questioning here is the practice of implying a product is made for a certain operating system when it is quite obviously the opposite. This is just wrong. There's no getting away from this fact. It is a fact.
4) Read number 3 four more times before writing your next reply. Not being pedantic, just kind of frustrated with what (some) people said in here (meaning they probably never read my post).
5) I am unhappy with the questionable business practice of implying a product is a native (made for) Mac software without so much as telling you that not only it's a Windows program, but the Wine Wrapper is also not theirs - they hire a 3rd party to do it.
6) If you buy a game that requires an internet connection, or a game that requires a 3rd party service like, say, Steam, you are warned in advance. This is not the case here.
Anyway, I've been messing with it (the game and the wrapper) and got around most issues. It's not as smooth as it could be, for (again) the obvious reason of this being Windows software, but it works. |
Dersen Lowery
Knavery Inc. StructureDamage
45
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Posted - 2012.07.02 03:24:00 -
[29] - Quote
1) If you want people to understand you, don't bury your lede. "CCP - drop the Mac client" will somehow may people think that you want CCP to drop the Mac client, not that you're picking nits;
2) 99% of Mac games have been ported to the Mac by third parties for about two decades now. It's what happens when the platform is a distant second. If you want to try finding games that are written specifically for an Apple OS, iOS has plenty of them. Mac OS X has hardly any, nor will it until a few years after Mac market share doubles or triples. BioWare outsources their Mac ports. This is a really strange nit to pick;
3) "Made for" means "runs on," not "was designed from the ground up for." Again, see almost every single Windows game brought to the Mac ever by anyone;
4) Are you seriously suggesting that an MMORPG named EVE Online should warn people that it requires an Internet connection?
5) Regardless of the above, my original points stand: The only way I can play EVE is on a client that runs under Mac OS X by whatever means, and; the fewer people use the Mac client, the less incentive CCP has to improve it. So, as someone who is counting on the existence of the Mac client, I will not react well to any argument that people who can use it should not, nor to any argument that it should be withdrawn because it fails to meet some ideal. |
Kult Altol
Republican Industries Epsilon Fleet
5
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Posted - 2012.07.03 03:28:00 -
[30] - Quote
Yup, been using the Mac client. Works well. Wish they had a more dumbed down graphical version tho. I want to see wireframe! |
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