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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Cpt Branko
The Scope
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Posted - 2009.10.03 00:15:00 -
[121]
 Originally by: FOl2TY8
Originally by: Cpt Branko
That said, the Ishtar isn't anything special at all. It's far from a I-win button. It's not such a problem to combat it with the cheaper T1.
I'm not looking for an I-win button (check my sig), I'm looking to experience as much of the game as I can. You remove insurance and I cannot play the Eve that "rich" players get to play.
The whole idea that you're entitled to use the tools that the "rich" players get the use without being either efficient enough or making ISK quickly enough to afford this is the problem.
I will probably never experience flying a faction BS / Marauder with officer fit with HG and officer implants. I will definitely never experience lol doomsdaying small gangs in a Titan. Truly rich players have and will. Should CCP strive to make everything affordable to me, just because I shun PVE content like the plague and don't want to go plexing/whatever to afford this?
I don't think they should. I personally don't think that CCP should subsidize me just so I can fly any ship on a regular basis.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.10.03 00:29:00 -
[122]
Removing insurance would be interesting, but you'd need to rebalance some costs. BS would need to be made cheaper.
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Allen Ramses
Caldari
Red Federation
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Posted - 2009.10.03 02:09:00 -
[123]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
If you want to start a general debate on insurance and death penalties, it needs to be in another forum and another thread.
Like the many other insurance reform threads that you guys refuse to even acknowledge? Please.
(I want a 40% base price for my totaled car without paying a premium, too.)
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CCP: Catering to the cowards of a cold, harsh universe since November, 2006. |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.10.03 02:40:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Removing insurance would be interesting, but you'd need to rebalance some costs. BS would need to be made cheaper.
FFS. Why can't you people ('you people being all the idiots who can't grasp a simple concept) understand the fact that INSURANCE forces the current market prices of items like BATTLESHIPS?
Price of payout for platinum insurance - cost of platinum insurance = base battleship price. If you sell for less, it's COST EFFECTIVE to buy the ship, insure it and then SELF DESTRUCT IT for the insurance money.
So if you REMOVE INSURANCE then there is no minimum price that BS hulls can achieve. It's simply supply and demand at that point.
The SAME EXACT SITUATION that the T1 market is in is where the T2 market will end up once the moon minerals get uncorked by the new sov situation and the system upgrade stuff is in place. The low price floor will be dictated by insurance payouts.
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Bellum Eternus
Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Tier 5 Battleships
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FOl2TY8
Red Federation
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Posted - 2009.10.03 06:31:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
The whole idea that you're entitled to use the tools that the "rich" players get the use without being either efficient enough or making ISK quickly enough to afford this is the problem.
I will probably never experience flying a faction BS / Marauder with officer fit with HG and officer implants. I will definitely never experience lol doomsdaying small gangs in a Titan. Truly rich players have and will. Should CCP strive to make everything affordable to me, just because I shun PVE content like the plague and don't want to go plexing/whatever to afford this?
I don't think they should. I personally don't think that CCP should subsidize me just so I can fly any ship on a regular basis.
Don't put words in my mouth. I said I'll experience what I can. I am well aware that I will never be able to fly a titan, marauder or even a command ship most likely. Hell, it would be great if I could fly a T2 cruiser. I dont' because I can't afford it. The only thing I'm adding to this discussion is that if CCP raises the payout for T2 insurance it will make it easier for more casual players like myself to purchase and fly T2 more often.
If CCP doesn't raise insurance for T2 I will just keep on doing what I'm doing. If they remove insurance altogether I'll just keep doing what I'm doing or quit and do something else. I'm going to have fun regardless.
Everyone's arguments for the market response to CCP decisions seem a bit silly because although this is the most player driven market in an MMO it is not completely player driven and never will be.
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This post brought to you by the worst PVP'er in Eve |
MIND SCR4MBLER
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Posted - 2009.10.03 14:28:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Removing insurance would be interesting, but you'd need to rebalance some costs. BS would need to be made cheaper.
FFS. Why can't you people ('you people being all the idiots who can't grasp a simple concept) understand the fact that INSURANCE forces the current market prices of items like BATTLESHIPS?
Price of payout for platinum insurance - cost of platinum insurance = base battleship price. If you sell for less, it's COST EFFECTIVE to buy the ship, insure it and then SELF DESTRUCT IT for the insurance money.
So if you REMOVE INSURANCE then there is no minimum price that BS hulls can achieve. It's simply supply and demand at that point.
The SAME EXACT SITUATION that the T1 market is in is where the T2 market will end up once the moon minerals get uncorked by the new sov situation and the system upgrade stuff is in place. The low price floor will be dictated by insurance payouts.
I think it will be slightly more complex than that,
T1 prices floor is dictated by the insurance cost for sure, because it is only a basic mineral basket to make it up. A lot of T1 production minerals can come from reprocessed loot drops so there is a pretty constant supply of source minerals, the BPO's are seeded and plentiful and you can research the ME to the nth degree to get the cheapest possible cost to achieve that floor price. but T1 production is rarely profitable in big margins because supply will always outstrip demand, and the mineral basket can always come from the loot/ore i mine is free crew.
T2 means a longer production chain, firstly there is the cost of invention (we will ex T2 BPO's for the mo for volume arguments), invention chance and poor ME. then there is the limited volumes 1 BPC per invention chance with either crappy ME and multi runs or good ME and single runs. Then there is the huge component basket that means you need all the T1 mineral basket plus all the T2 components built as well, then you have to cook the lot which on a marauder means the complete start to end process from invention to production to sale can take a couple of weeks, so there is a much bigger utility cost in how much time T2 clogs up your production/invention slots vs T1 which cooks a BS in a couple of hours.
For sure the "base cost" of remarketed i.e second hand T2 will be insurance payouts, but what happens is when the people reselling T2 ships are undercutting base invention/make costs most T2 makers will sit on inventory or switch to more profitable lines, then the supply dries up and prices rise again, since you can't just run a L4s for a week, process the loot and cook a BS or 2 for profit then I do not think T2 prices will change much unless their is significant cuts to the time/material/costs chain. i.e they can cut the build cost but the aggro factor of it taking 2 weeks to build a marauder will still keep suppliers probably low.
looking at the mat changes on sisi as reported i can see this getting horribly borked and T2 being really uneconomical for some reason or other to the point people either dont build ships or only build them for their or their corps own use.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.10.03 19:19:00 -
[127]
Originally by: MIND SCR4MBLER
<snipped for space, some very good points you've brought up>
I did a quick review of platinum insurance on SISI:
Ship / insurance cost / payout / minimum possible ship cost due to insurance
- Hyperion / 52.8m / 176m / 123.2m
- Megathron / 31.5m / 105m / 73.5m
- Redeemer / 60.6m / 202m / 141m
- Kronos / 91.4m / 304.5m / 213.1m
- Astarte / 34.5m / 115.2m / 80.7m
- Ishtar / 15.1m / 50.5m / 35.4m
- Arazu / 12.2m / 40.6m / 28.4m
I know that the devs have said 'this is just placeholder stuff and it's not going to TQ', but what if it does go to TQ? Or something similar?
If the new system upgrade game changes uncork moon minerals in the same fashion that invention uncorked T2 BPC availability then we're going to see a dramatic decrease in the cost of the raw moon materials and in turn the base cost of T2 components. Look at where T2 module prices are now compared to before invention. Sub-5m ISK Covert cloaks, Invuln IIs at 2m or so. It's crazy. That kind of pressure will be brought to bear against moon mineral prices if people have the ability to access even a tiny amount of rare moon minerals through system upgrade development.
With insurance CCP is ensuring that prices won't drop below a particular level, ever. People want super cheap ships? Remove insurance and remove the artificial floor for the ship prices.
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Bellum Eternus
Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Tier 5 Battleships
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Fluoroantimonicacid
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Posted - 2009.12.01 15:19:00 -
[128]
Please don't remove insurance on T1 ships, it is so hard to move and sell stuff relative to just building and self destructing it. Hopefully Cap, T2, and T3 ships will be at the self destruct for money level soon, the isk per hour would be higher than just T1 BS.
(You do not want to see how many BS I have self destructed)
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HeliosGal
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.12.01 17:31:00 -
[129]
i got on at full insurance a zealot payed out 17.5m thats 100% insurance for 5m isk on a 100m baseline ship. If prices fall say 20-30% tats about 30% rebate. Which will just reduce the replacement cost slightly
WIht tech 3 mods and more ships coming this isnt a bad thing. Mid range moon materials will go up, high ends will fall. CCP has balanced and thats good.
Alternative overheat requirements have dropped use all that t1 loot u have and burn em out
Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00 |
LeeManBob
Amarr
V I R I I
Cult of War
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Posted - 2009.12.01 18:30:00 -
[130]
I find T2 T3 insurance just right. As more EVE is like the RL economy, better it is. i will say even insuance clones with inplants is a good idea. if an insuranc make prices or other things wrong, then its that CCP need to fix. In RL you can have insurance on everything without that make the prices faked up. why do you never bring a T2 BS in a PVP fight? if CCP make T2/T3 ect insurable we will see more T2 BS and CS in fights. insurance makes it even worth training marauders, even you are not a fancy PVE'er.
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