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Trimmok
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Posted - 2009.09.30 18:31:00 -
[1]
Just want some opinions, trying to decide which one to go for any advice appreciated thanks guys/gals.

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Saraphos
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Posted - 2009.09.30 19:04:00 -
[2]
Paladin for the ease of salvaging and looting, if you have a dedicated looter already, go with a nightmare. Alternatively, go with the shield pally. Swap out the AB if you want more tank and plug up the EM hole a bit more, but otherwise tried and true, works even better with a crystal set.
[Paladin, ShieldPally] Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II
Domination 100MN Afterburner Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Pith A-Type Large Shield Booster
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Salvager II
Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II
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Trimmok
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Posted - 2009.09.30 19:22:00 -
[3]
hmmmm thats an interestin one, never considered shield on it
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Jamyl TashMurkon
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.09.30 19:23:00 -
[4]
lol @ shield paladin :D
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Mr Reeth
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Posted - 2009.09.30 22:31:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Jamyl TashMurkon lol @ shield paladin :D
The paladin can dish out crazy damage. There are some mission that finish with 80% shields and I have no shield mods or even skills.
A shield tank paladin might be pretty crappy but it might also be just enough.
Somebody try it and let us know how it goes.
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Marko Riva
Adamant Inc.
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Posted - 2009.09.30 22:58:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Marko Riva on 30/09/2009 22:58:42
Originally by: Saraphos Paladin for the ease of salvaging and looting, if you have a dedicated looter already, go with a nightmare. Alternatively, go with the shield pally. Swap out the AB if you want more tank and plug up the EM hole a bit more, but otherwise tried and true, works even better with a crystal set.
[Paladin, ShieldPally] Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II
Domination 100MN Afterburner Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Pith A-Type Large Shield Booster
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Salvager II
Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II
That has a 360 dps sansha tank... also the guns and hardeners run for just over 5 minutes, adding the SB would make it run for 2 minutes IF you started at 100% cap which you don't as you've been shooting. In other words... yeah right, get a Nightmare if you want a shield tanked laser BS.
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Saraphos
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Posted - 2009.10.01 00:30:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Saraphos on 01/10/2009 00:31:18 How long does your nightmare last with a booster? 2.5 mins? Want more time, swap the Thermal rig for a CCC. You arent supposed to be tanking, you are supposed to be blowing stuff up before they can even get in range to shoot you.
Again, the nightmare is a fine ship, but this gives you the benefit of the tractor bonus without letting a crystal set go to waste.
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Robbie Robot
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Posted - 2009.10.01 03:58:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Trimmok Just want some opinions, trying to decide which one to go for any advice appreciated thanks guys/gals.

you should state an intended purpose. PvP gangs? solo or group missions? <this end up> |

Trimmok
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Posted - 2009.10.01 07:48:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Trimmok on 01/10/2009 07:50:09
you should state an intended purpose. PvP gangs? solo or group missions?
Well I figured seeing as I posted in the missions and complexes it might be obvious what its being used for but maybe thats just me lol, to clarify this is for missions solo might drag the salvage alt. Purely looking to wipe out missions fast and make some isk.
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Manu Hermanus
FaDoyToy
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Posted - 2009.10.01 07:53:00 -
[10]
I think the paladin is just a bit easier to use, also 40km tractors 
(and yes 40km double speed tractors will save the salvage alt a lot of time as opposed to flying all over the place trying to loot) You're posting again!? Has it really been 5 mins?
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Prof Pain
SmokingGuns Corp
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Posted - 2009.10.01 09:44:00 -
[11]
i like that shield paladin, especially because of the tracking enhancers and 4 hs. and damn its sexy.
the tank is more than enough also for sanshas and if your worried, that it should last longer, just switch the afterburner for a cap injector for the harder missions. you have lots of cargo space after all. cheers!
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Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2009.10.01 11:14:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Marko Riva
That has a 360 dps sansha tank... also the guns and hardeners run for just over 5 minutes, adding the SB would make it run for 2 minutes IF you started at 100% cap which you don't as you've been shooting. In other words... yeah right, get a Nightmare if you want a shield tanked laser BS.
While agree that Nightmare is better for shield tanked laserboat the posted setup is strong enough to do lev 4 missions without problems, altho I personally would just put faction EM and thermal hardener in there instead of those invuls. I have done also missions with something as pathetic as 160 dps tank in Nightmare without running into problems as it's gank is kinda it's tank. Granted not something I would be keen to get full stage agro in sansha blocade for example.
Besides 5 mins is all the 'perma' you need. I run missions on regular basis in setups that according to EFT last from 3 to 4 minutes. I am btw currently using shield tanked apoc (that in this respect is quite similar to Paladin, just without semi T2 resists) on one of the agents far enough from my main base to not bother dragging nightmare up there for those few missions I need for alt standings. Only for EM weak opponents ofc, using Golem against kin/exp guys.
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Jake 1590
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Posted - 2009.10.01 23:25:00 -
[13]
Shield tanked Nightmare definately.. While it doesn't get the tractor bonus, that shouldn't matter since loot/salvage work should be done after the killing and using a fast salvage ship. It does tremendous DPS and has an awsome shield tank with proper skills and fitting. Here is my Nightmare mission setup
Rigs: 3x Capacitor Control Circuit I
Lows: 2x Capacitor Flux Coil II 3x Amarr Navy Heat Sink
Mids: 1x Gist A-Type X-Large Shield Booster 1x Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier 2x True Sansha Cap Recharger 2x Active Hardeners (Mission Specific) 1x Tracking Computer II (Tracking Speed Script)
Highs: 4x Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser (Amarr Navy Crystals) 1x Amarr Navy Large EMP Smartbomb (Optional) 1x Tractor Beam
This setup boosts 852.5 shield every 4 secs for 10 minutes, or permanently with any crystal below Multifreq. To get a perma boost with multifreq simply drop a heat sink for another capacitor flux coil. This puts out 867 DPS with 3 heat sinks and Amarr Navy Multifreq. 761 DPS with 2 heat sinks
Its a big investment, but definately worth it IMO
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Kzintee
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.10.02 02:30:00 -
[14]
Except that you don't really need to perma tank NM or use a faction XLSB. You kill things so fast you don't get a chance to get really damaged.
[Nightmare, Old] Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Tracking Enhancer II
Domination 100MN Afterburner Ballistic Deflection Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Invulnerability Field II Caldari Navy X-Large Shield Booster Amarr Navy Heavy Capacitor Booster, Cap Booster 800
Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Drone Link Augmentor I Small Tractor Beam I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Hammerhead II x5
AB can be swapped for a TC.
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Manu Hermanus
FaDoyToy
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Posted - 2009.10.02 02:33:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Jake 1590 Shield tanked Nightmare definately.. While it doesn't get the tractor bonus, that shouldn't matter since loot/salvage work should be done after the killing and using a fast salvage ship. It does tremendous DPS and has an awsome shield tank with proper skills and fitting. Here is my Nightmare mission setup
Rigs: 3x Capacitor Control Circuit I
Lows: 2x Capacitor Flux Coil II 3x Amarr Navy Heat Sink
Mids: 1x Gist A-Type X-Large Shield Booster 1x Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier 2x True Sansha Cap Recharger 2x Active Hardeners (Mission Specific) 1x Tracking Computer II (Tracking Speed Script)
Highs: 4x Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser (Amarr Navy Crystals) 1x Amarr Navy Large EMP Smartbomb (Optional) 1x Tractor Beam
This setup boosts 852.5 shield every 4 secs for 10 minutes, or permanently with any crystal below Multifreq. To get a perma boost with multifreq simply drop a heat sink for another capacitor flux coil. This puts out 867 DPS with 3 heat sinks and Amarr Navy Multifreq. 761 DPS with 2 heat sinks
Its a big investment, but definately worth it IMO
if you are only going to use 3 heatsinks get a pally ffs.
and lol @ gist xl booster. You're posting again!? Has it really been 5 mins?
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Trimmok
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Posted - 2009.10.02 11:48:00 -
[16]
whats with all the 4th heatsink stuff i though that the difference between 3 and 4 was so small that not worth bothering
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Manu Hermanus
FaDoyToy
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Posted - 2009.10.02 16:46:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Trimmok whats with all the 4th heatsink stuff i though that the difference between 3 and 4 was so small that not worth bothering
the 4th damage mod adds ~6% dps or so. feel free to go into eft and verify, and/or get the actual number.
... meh, got to wait 5 mins till I can post again so I shall do it!
okay so 4 tach IIs, amarr navy multi, 4 amarr navy heatsinks, 5% turret damage, and 5% large energy turret damage implants dps: 1077
4 tach IIs, amarr navy multi, 3 amarr navy heatsinks, 5% turret damage, and 5% large energy turret damage implants dps: 1009
1077/1009 ~= 1.0674
so a 6.74% dps increase. (okay hoping that was 5 mins)
You're posting again!? Has it really been 5 mins?
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Kzintee
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.10.02 18:02:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Trimmok whats with all the 4th heatsink stuff i though that the difference between 3 and 4 was so small that not worth bothering
the real question is: What else are you gonna put there? The typical low slot setup on NM is heat sinks and tracking enhancers. I've run EFT DPS graphs for 3HS, 2TE vs 4HS, 1TE. The 4HSes have better DPS pretty much at all ranges except a small 2km distance somewhere in the 40s.
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Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2009.10.03 12:51:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Kzintee
Originally by: Trimmok whats with all the 4th heatsink stuff i though that the difference between 3 and 4 was so small that not worth bothering
the real question is: What else are you gonna put there? The typical low slot setup on NM is heat sinks and tracking enhancers. I've run EFT DPS graphs for 3HS, 2TE vs 4HS, 1TE. The 4HSes have better DPS pretty much at all ranges except a small 2km distance somewhere in the 40s.
I actually prefer 4 heatsinks, tracking enhancer and 2 tracking computers on Nightmare. That way this 2 km window get's even smaller and in addition your multifreq crystals (if you use range scripts) can own a lot better at 50 - 60 km mark or you can still pop cruisers a lot faster when they happen to get to 20 km robits with tracking scripts or in those missions where targets start in 30 km sphere around you (like downing the slavers for example).
Alternative for tracking enhancer in low slot is signal amp II (that low slot mod that acts like sensor booster without script). Unless you need some tanking mod in there for some bizarre reason altho you 4-5 slots are quite plentiful for enough shieldtank to do missions without warpouts. Signal amp II makes your lock range big enough to be able to lock targets at the extreme mission ranges out at 120 km (there is only very few missions with that range) but more importantly makes you lock your first target and smaller ships faster, as with nightmare one of the cornerstones for sucsess is to pop small stuff before it get's under your guns and being able to lock it faster is quite good in that regard. In majority of missions tracking enhancer and it's added optimal are more useful tho.
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Kzintee
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.10.03 16:02:00 -
[20]
Yep, I fly with 4 HSs and 1 TE in lows as well.
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Denny Haze
Amarr Ministry of War
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Posted - 2009.10.04 18:47:00 -
[21]
I usually have a damage control in one of the lows (I fly a Golem, but the lows are the subject, not the ship) But if the 4th damage mod makes sens I'll try that
60D GTC |

Witcher
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Posted - 2009.10.05 11:20:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Saraphos Paladin for the ease of salvaging and looting, if you have a dedicated looter already, go with a nightmare. Alternatively, go with the shield pally. Swap out the AB if you want more tank and plug up the EM hole a bit more, but otherwise tried and true, works even better with a crystal set.
[Paladin, ShieldPally] Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II
Domination 100MN Afterburner Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Pith A-Type Large Shield Booster
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Salvager II
Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II
Stacking penlaty on 4 heat sinks is so severe that 4th heat sink is useless. Maybe you should check out stacking penalties values again (dont have them from the top of my head). So if you remove 4th heat sink and plug in LAR, this will have pretty much same effect as having it crappily shield tanked for missions whereby as you are saying "shield tank is just enough". And plug something else more usefull into mid slots.
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Tom Peeping
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Posted - 2009.10.05 13:46:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Witcher
Originally by: Saraphos Paladin for the ease of salvaging and looting, if you have a dedicated looter already, go with a nightmare. Alternatively, go with the shield pally. Swap out the AB if you want more tank and plug up the EM hole a bit more, but otherwise tried and true, works even better with a crystal set.
[Paladin, ShieldPally] Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II
Domination 100MN Afterburner Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Pith A-Type Large Shield Booster
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Salvager II
Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II
Stacking penlaty on 4 heat sinks is so severe that 4th heat sink is useless. Maybe you should check out stacking penalties values again (dont have them from the top of my head). So if you remove 4th heat sink and plug in LAR, this will have pretty much same effect as having it crappily shield tanked for missions whereby as you are saying "shield tank is just enough". And plug something else more usefull into mid slots.
Incorrect.
You're right that the 4th heatsink has a significant penalty... but your incorrect that it's useless. You still get a worthwhile dps boost from a 4th. If you read the prior statements, you see that this gets acknowledged... and they then say, "what else are you going to put in there?" The issue is just finding a worthwhile module that provide more benefit than the 4th heatsink. The LAR you've suggested be fitted to that shield tank is a horrible idea due to the cap and fitting issues thereby created. Honestly, you've not suggested an improvement there... but horribly nerfed the ship.
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Xano Heroma
Minmatar Republic University
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Posted - 2009.10.05 14:59:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Witcher
Stacking penlaty on 4 heat sinks is so severe that 4th heat sink is useless. Maybe you should check out stacking penalties values again (dont have them from the top of my head). So if you remove 4th heat sink and plug in LAR, this will have pretty much same effect as having it crappily shield tanked for missions whereby as you are saying "shield tank is just enough". And plug something else more usefull into mid slots.
ahh soo 28% of 10,5%rof and 10%dmg is worthless LOL 
2,94%rof and 2,8%dmg more is always handy .... more dps is welcome LOL it's almost like an extra set of 3% implants LOL
maybe you should check out stacking penalties Values again  |

Xano Heroma
Minmatar Republic University
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Posted - 2009.10.05 15:11:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Xano Heroma on 05/10/2009 15:12:02 to OP:
Paladin if you like amarr tanking over shield, and/or don't have loot/salv alt and like to get that extra isk along.
Nightmare if you like shield tanking over amarr and/or have loot/salv alt or simple don't care about it. it have 5 lows for heat sinks/tracking mods and inate tracking bonus, so generally nightmare is abit more dps/effective dps. oh and look alot more cool'er. |

Tom Peeping
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Posted - 2009.10.05 18:15:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Tom Peeping on 05/10/2009 18:24:09
Originally by: Saraphos Paladin for the ease of salvaging and looting, if you have a dedicated looter already, go with a nightmare. Alternatively, go with the shield pally. Swap out the AB if you want more tank and plug up the EM hole a bit more, but otherwise tried and true, works even better with a crystal set.
[Paladin, ShieldPally] Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II
Domination 100MN Afterburner Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Pith A-Type Large Shield Booster
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Salvager II
Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II
If you MUST fly the Paly this way, why the Pithi A-type large? Why not an X/L? Even just a plain and simple T2 XL gives you more tank (and you're only gonna boost occasionally anyway) and why not amarr navy tachy's? Both of those things will fit with no fitting implants needed. Plus, you boost your tank vs. Sansha (your weakest area) up into the 600's even before you start dealing with implants.
Edit... and to the guy talking 3% implant... note that a 2.5% rate of fire AND a 2.5% dmg bonus is a LOT better than a 3% dps implant. It moves you from 669 DPS to 714 DPS (laser only OFC) so ballpark of 50 dps isn't all that horrible. Plus, don't forget... the entire point of the reason for fitting the 4th is NOT that the 4th implant gives some uber level of bonus, but that the nerfed value is still better than many of the alternative modules you could chose to fit. I don't personally use the 4th mod... but even I see the argument behind why they are suggesting it.
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Manu Hermanus
FaDoyToy
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Posted - 2009.10.05 18:30:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Xano Heroma Edited by: Xano Heroma on 05/10/2009 15:12:02 to OP:
Paladin if you like amarr tanking over shield, and/or don't have loot/salv alt and like to get that extra isk along.
Nightmare if you like shield tanking over amarr and/or have loot/salv alt or simple don't care about it. it have 5 lows for heat sinks/tracking mods and inate tracking bonus, so generally nightmare is abit more dps/effective dps. oh and look alot more cool'er.
paladin can lock 10 targets, nothing better to do with that many target locks then start looting while in mission,
as for the alt stick them in a destroyer/bc with 8x salvager IIs and 3x salvage rigs  (or maybe 2x tractors with 6x salvagers, just to get some close by wrecks or for just in case)
put a lot less thought into just locking + salvaging targets than flying around tractoring and salvaging. wreck balls ftw!
but then again the nightmare is frickken
V E R T I C A L
so big toss up there You're posting again!? Has it really been 5 mins?
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Kzintee
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.10.05 20:54:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Kzintee on 05/10/2009 20:54:47
Originally by: Tom Peeping
Edit... and to the guy talking 3% implant... note that a 2.5% rate of fire AND a 2.5% dmg bonus is a LOT better than a 3% dps implant. It moves you from 669 DPS to 714 DPS (laser only OFC) so ballpark of 50 dps isn't all that horrible. Plus, don't forget... the entire point of the reason for fitting the 4th is NOT that the 4th implant gives some uber level of bonus, but that the nerfed value is still better than many of the alternative modules you could chose to fit. I don't personally use the 4th mod... but even I see the argument behind why they are suggesting it.
There's not even a point trying to compare a 714 DPS Paladin to a NM. My NM does 1020 DPS (5% implants, 4 AN HSs, AN Tachs, AN MF).
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Manu Hermanus
FaDoyToy
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Posted - 2009.10.05 22:27:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Kzintee Edited by: Kzintee on 05/10/2009 20:54:47
Originally by: Tom Peeping
Edit... and to the guy talking 3% implant... note that a 2.5% rate of fire AND a 2.5% dmg bonus is a LOT better than a 3% dps implant. It moves you from 669 DPS to 714 DPS (laser only OFC) so ballpark of 50 dps isn't all that horrible. Plus, don't forget... the entire point of the reason for fitting the 4th is NOT that the 4th implant gives some uber level of bonus, but that the nerfed value is still better than many of the alternative modules you could chose to fit. I don't personally use the 4th mod... but even I see the argument behind why they are suggesting it.
There's not even a point trying to compare a 714 DPS Paladin to a NM. My NM does 1020 DPS (5% implants, 4 AN HSs, AN Tachs, AN MF).
change that to t2 tachs, and 3 HS, and 1009 dps from a paladin, dunno what the bloody hell he is fitting on his. (964 with marauders 4 though) You're posting again!? Has it really been 5 mins?
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NoFatChicks
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Posted - 2009.10.06 17:36:00 -
[30]
if we talking about expensive fits but not crazy expensive, i etf this fit
[Paladin, New Setup 1] Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Centus X-Type Large Armor Repairer Centum A-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Centum A-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Salvager I Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I
Capacitor Control Circuit II Capacitor Control Circuit II
Hammerhead II x5 need maxed fitting skills and pg8 implant to fit; with g2-beta and cc8 this thing should perma tank in game i guess
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