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Is it reasonable for me to get offended?

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Professor Tarantula Hedion University	Posted - 2009.10.01 17:28:00 - [61] Someone should start a corp named Auschwitz Industries and see how long that lasts. "Hey, Auschwitz is just the name of the town Oświęcim in German, what's everyone getting upset about?"
MatrixSkye Mk2 Minmatar	Posted - 2009.10.01 17:29:00 - [62] Originally by: Chi'kote First off: to the person that said * and "terrorist Jihad" are different because * was against a certain group and the jihad is agasint everyone, do more research. "terroris jihad" does have certain groups it hates, not everyone. Furthure more, * was anti-lots of groups, not just one. Secondly: Jihad is just as offensive to a muslims and friends & family soldiers dying in so-called "jihads" as * would be to certain groups. The real reason * is blanked out and Jihad is not is because there aren't enough people playing this game that care and get offended enough to complain. I guarantee you if goons called thier actions a "something to do with the " there would be a shtstorm and CCP would quickly swoop in and correct it. Typical double standard caused by lack of representation. Just because the offended group isn't here in enough numbers to represent themselves does not make it ok to use offensive terms and make light of real life situations. thirdly: to those who say "well the true meaning of the term is 'this', so it is fine" need to realize it is not what the word means definitionally, but how it is used and interpreted in the general public. There are plenty of everyday common words with totaly harmless meanings that are extremely offensive because of how they have been uesd and are interpreted. Bingo. I think you hit the nail in the head. I think it's also the reason ** and anything pertaining to ** would also never be allowed. Probably anything dealing with the fascist movement would also not be permitted.
Zartanic	Posted - 2009.10.01 17:39:00 - [63] Edited by: Zartanic on 01/10/2009 17:44:50 If players are offended go ahead and report it. But it's obvious to me the difference between 'jihad' as per Goonsawn and 'Auschwitz' If anyone struggles to see how one may be offensive (to who?) and the other WILL be offensive then I can't help that. The comparisons are a straw man argument and meaningless as they are NOT calling their corp Auschwitz are they? If they tried that of course they would get banned. The fact is some people think anything potentially offensive should be banned and that's that. I think that in itself can be oppressive and a cause of a lot of problems so it must be done with care and on a case by case basis. Some are obviously bannable though so that's not an argument for or against anything.
Ronja Mistysdottir The Treehugger Corp	Posted - 2009.10.01 17:48:00 - [64] Originally by: Professor Tarantula Someone should start a corp named Auschwitz Industries and see how long that lasts. "Hey, Auschwitz is just the name of the town Oświęcim in German, what's everyone getting upset about?" So, I guess my corp mate can not name his Cyclone Battlecruiser for B no more then? ------- Anyway, I have had the pleasure of going to a short training camp deep inside Delve where we learned the art of Blitz Warfare by the means of total disregard for our own saftey and property. Through the suicide ships we wear we get to feel like the ancient warriors from the myths of the old world. Our organisation, The Treehugger Corp, are fighting for the same goal as our Muhajideen brothers and sisters from Jihadswarm, the end of Ice Mining. We in the Treehugger Corporation are fighting a proxy war on behalf of all Strontium Based Life Forms that have their ecosystem torn apart by vile miners that are only out there for profit. The Exhumer class ships they use pollute not only the area around the ships in the belts, but they bring the ice out of the belts created by the one true lord. The holy Prophet has spoken in length about how the Ice and Astroid belts of New Eden are sacred grounds. Our goals and motivation are the same. Now, it gets worse. The s****mining the sacred belts against the prophets will and destroying the habitant of all Strontium Based Life Forms and bringing fuel to the markets at dumping prices causes every low life wanna be industrialist to put up a POS. These POS's burn through radioactive material like there is no tomorrow, and all of this is released near the moons. Many of these moons will be totaly inhabitable for carbon based life forms for all time. THIS CAN NOT STAND! This pollution comes into our pods and pollute our Pod Fluids. We have to preserve our Podly Fluids and the only way of doing that, save the strontium based life forms, protect the moons and the belts that the one true lord, he who sees everything and knows everything, have spoken to Karttoon... is to kill EVERY EXHUMER OUT THERE. Allahu Ackbar! tl;dr : We need to save the enviorment so we are blowing you all up.
Rebethecca	Posted - 2009.10.01 17:49:00 - [65] The ignorance of the people that get upset at the use of the term 'jihad' is more offensive to me than anything else I have seen on these forums. To many people, jihad is solely the language of the Muslim terrorist, when the term is not even exclusive to Islam, and is basically just religious language. The use of the term jihad in this context is similar to the Amarrian roleplay use of the term 'crusade' which is not considered offensive. This though real life Muslims are likely more upset about that term than any (mis)use of the word 'jihad'.
Chi'kote Serenity Ascension G-R-I-E-V-A-N-C-E	Posted - 2009.10.01 17:55:00 - [66] Originally by: Zartanic Edited by: Zartanic on 01/10/2009 17:44:50 If players are offended go ahead and report it. But it's obvious to me the difference between 'jihad' as per Goonsawn and 'Auschwitz' If anyone struggles to see how one may be offensive (to who?) and the other WILL be offensive then I can't help that. The comparisons are a straw man argument and meaningless as they are NOT calling their corp Auschwitz are they? If they tried that of course they would get banned. The fact is some people think anything potentially offensive should be banned and that's that. I think that in itself can be oppressive and a cause of a lot of problems so it must be done with care and on a case by case basis. Some are obviously bannable though so that's not an argument for or against anything. The reason some terms, like "Auschwitz corp" are just obviously banned and offensive, where as "jihad" is not is because those offended have already risen up and complained, not just in game, but in real life. Unfortunately, in the current global climate, racism against muslims (not the terrorists. they are different) is basically socially acceptable. However, ** racism and * racism, while at one point in time might have been socially acceptable, have over time been declared completely and utterly racist, hateful, and unacceptable. I agree with going case by case and being careful as to what you censor. But this is not "potentially offensive." This IS offensive. Just the real life world most of the EVE player base lives in currently finds to one extent or another racist or incensitive remarks towards the muslim world acceptable.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.10.01 17:59:00 - [67] Successful goon alt thread is successful! Quote: [03:39:05] Emperor Salazar > HOLY **** ITS ZEBA [03:39:20] Emperor Salazar > NEVER STOP POASTING Zeba is the BEST! ~Mitnal
Professor Tarantula Hedion University	Posted - 2009.10.01 18:00:00 - [68] Originally by: Rebethecca The use of the term jihad in this context is similar to the Amarrian roleplay use of the term 'crusade' which is not considered offensive. This though real life Muslims are likely more upset about that term than any (mis)use of the word 'jihad'. Hardly. I know they don't teach you this in school, but the Muslims crushed the Catholic crusade. It was ultimately a failure and a huge morale hit to the Church. If anything, they would laugh at the arrogance of the term, not be offended.
Chi'kote Serenity Ascension G-R-I-E-V-A-N-C-E	Posted - 2009.10.01 18:04:00 - [69] Edited by: Chi''kote on 01/10/2009 18:07:03 Originally by: Rebethecca The ignorance of the people that get upset at the use of the term 'jihad' is more offensive to me than anything else I have seen on these forums. To many people, jihad is solely the language of the Muslim terrorist, when the term is not even exclusive to Islam, and is basically just religious language. The use of the term jihad in this context is similar to the Amarrian roleplay use of the term 'crusade' which is not considered offensive. This though real life Muslims are likely more upset about that term than any (mis)use of the word 'jihad'. First off, I remember a certain president getting into a sh*tstorm for using the word "crusade" regarding the current wars in the middle east. And to keep it short, I bet there are plenty of words that to me, and many others are completely innocent, but are very offensive to you or others. To give just a MILD example: Fat: fatty tissue of an animal. just part of a body. duck fat renders nicely into a beautiful and delicious sauce :) Fat: "you're fat." Ok, I used the same, innocent word. if you were overweight, would you not be offended, upset, or feel belittled to some degree? I've just used an innocent word to express some form of hatred or distaste with you. And there are certainly much worse, racially and nationality related examples. Jihad: just a word about great effort in something, been defined enough already Jihad: "performing a jihad to kill all of this group." used in the same context the general public is using it today, referring to the mass killings of soldiers fighting against terrorists. jihad is now being used just like any other number of innocent words turned offensive.
MatrixSkye Mk2 Minmatar	Posted - 2009.10.01 18:05:00 - [70] Originally by: Rebethecca The ignorance of the people that get upset at the use of the term 'jihad' is more offensive to me than anything else I have seen on these forums. To many people, jihad is solely the language of the Muslim terrorist, when the term is not even exclusive to Islam, and is basically just religious language. The use of the term jihad in this context is similar to the Amarrian roleplay use of the term 'crusade' which is not considered offensive. This though real life Muslims are likely more upset about that term than any (mis)use of the word 'jihad'. The term Jihad is just as offensive to those unfortunate enough to have had family members killed by this "movement", not just Muslims. Jihad represents hate, just as ** represents hate, just as * represents hate. I think you misunderstand the implications of the word Jihad. It's not the word that offends. It's what it represents.
Gwyneira Vulva'Mae	Posted - 2009.10.01 18:09:00 - [71] Personally, I look forward to the day when CCP bans all real-life religion from Eve. I have encountered a handful of "Christian" corps advertising their intent to do the work of Jesus in New Eden. As a mature, educated person who doesn't believe in childish things like a dead Jew rising after 3 days I find this extremely offensive.
Zartanic	Posted - 2009.10.01 18:10:00 - [72] Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 Originally by: Rebethecca The ignorance of the people that get upset at the use of the term 'jihad' is more offensive to me than anything else I have seen on these forums. To many people, jihad is solely the language of the Muslim terrorist, when the term is not even exclusive to Islam, and is basically just religious language. The use of the term jihad in this context is similar to the Amarrian roleplay use of the term 'crusade' which is not considered offensive. This though real life Muslims are likely more upset about that term than any (mis)use of the word 'jihad'. The term Jihad is just as offensive to those unfortunate enough to have had family members killed by this "movement", not just Muslims. Jihad represents hate, just as ** represents hate, just as * represents hate. I think you misunderstand the implications of the word Jihad. It's not the word that offends. It's what it represents. Then if your offended put in a complaint. I'm fairly immune to what players say or do in a game but not everyone is like me, its outside the game I care about. Goonswarm are just a bunch of harmless gamers trying to look cool and be different, that's how I see them. In fact if they thought no one was bothered by it they wouldn't do it would they? Their whole philosophy is griefing and your playing straight into their hands.
MatrixSkye Mk2 Minmatar	Posted - 2009.10.01 18:19:00 - [73] Originally by: Zartanic Then if your offended put in a complaint. I'm fairly immune to what players say or do in a game but not everyone is like me, its outside the game I care about. Goonswarm are just a bunch of harmless gamers trying to look cool and be different, that's how I see them. In fact if they thought no one was bothered by it they wouldn't do it would they? Their whole philosophy is griefing and your playing straight into their hands. To be honest, I'm not necessarily offended precisely because I know the Goons are just a bunch of ******s looking for attention. But that is not what I'm debating. What I find interesting is how religious intolerance is accepted and found to be funny/amusing while race or other forms of hateful intolerances are not. And for the record, I was not convinced with your explenation. I'm not saying it's wrong, just that it didn't convince me.
Rebethecca	Posted - 2009.10.01 18:20:00 - [74] Originally by: Professor Tarantula Originally by: Rebethecca The use of the term jihad in this context is similar to the Amarrian roleplay use of the term 'crusade' which is not considered offensive. This though real life Muslims are likely more upset about that term than any (mis)use of the word 'jihad'. Hardly. I know they don't teach you this in school, but the Muslims crushed the Catholic crusade. It was ultimately a failure and a huge morale hit to the Church. If anything, they would laugh at the arrogance of the term, not be offended. Two of the crusades were pretty successful imho, but Muslims nowadays can definitely get offended by the connotations of the word. At least, many of the Muslims that I have met while in the the Middle East have felt that way!
Exordium8 Minmatar Ground Hoggs on Steriods	Posted - 2009.10.01 18:23:00 - [75] Originally by: Graelyn It is never reasonable for you to be offended in the name of someone else. Ever. Period. Any time someone is offended for a group, they are looking for attention. jihadswarm? not offended. Crusades? not offended. Someone pods me, desecrates my corpse and insults me? not offended. Its a game. When you get offended, goons win. Also, obvious goon alt thread is obvious. --------------------------------- Pillage, then burn. Everything is air-droppable at least once. There is no 'overkill.' There is only 'open fire' and 'time to reload. When the going gets tou
Joahan	Posted - 2009.10.01 18:25:00 - [76] Originally by: Chi'kote Jihad: just a word about great effort in something, been defined enough already Jihad: "performing a jihad to kill all of this group." used in the same context the general public is using it today, referring to the mass killings of soldiers fighting against terrorists. jihad is now being used just like any other number of innocent words turned offensive. If what offends the American public is your barometer for offensiveness, then we may as well just delete the forums. Catering to unreasonably sensitivities is just that: unreasonable.
Professor Tarantula Hedion University	Posted - 2009.10.01 18:29:00 - [77] Originally by: Rebethecca Two of the crusades were pretty successful imho, but Muslims nowadays can definitely get offended by the connotations of the word. At least, many of the Muslims that I have met while in the the Middle East have felt that way! I'm not saying they were cool with it, but outside forces have been trying to conquer places there for thousands of years, and failing. With that in mind, the Crusades didn't rattle them as much as you may think.
000Hunter000 Gallente Missiles 'R' Us	Posted - 2009.10.01 18:34:00 - [78] Originally by: Gaborelle im goona wait til johovah-swarm comes out and i will come knocking on your door to try convert ya :P Arn't the goonies a lot like Jehova's allready? i mean they try to convert u and then take all ur money ________________________________________________
Rayzol	Posted - 2009.10.01 18:35:00 - [79] Originally by: Corozan Aspinall My alliance recently had its name changed, arbitrarily seemingly with no consultation from CCP. It was completely inoffensive and not explicit in any way. Now we are called Aliance 12345? Nice work. Totally erased our in-game identity. Yet its ok to mock Islamic Jihad? To use phrases like Mujahadeen and Infidel in context with western geeks playing space ships on the internet? This is not offensive to muslims? Sheesh. I think ur completely right Corozan, especially with the "witch-hunt" of muslims going on today, islam is the new communism and common enemy of the west.
Chi'kote Serenity Ascension G-R-I-E-V-A-N-C-E	Posted - 2009.10.01 18:38:00 - [80] Originally by: Joahan Originally by: Chi'kote Jihad: just a word about great effort in something, been defined enough already Jihad: "performing a jihad to kill all of this group." used in the same context the general public is using it today, referring to the mass killings of soldiers fighting against terrorists. jihad is now being used just like any other number of innocent words turned offensive. If what offends the American public is your barometer for offensiveness, then we may as well just delete the forums. Catering to unreasonably sensitivities is just that: unreasonable. Where did I say "American"? These wars are multi-national, people have been dying from many different countries. America isn't the only country where "jihad" is most commonly used to refer to the current wars and terrorism. Go walk up to a british family who's son died fighting a "jihad" and tell them Americans are too sensitive for being offended. I think they might have a different opinion.
small chimp	Posted - 2009.10.01 18:38:00 - [81] They tried to ban that animation about three small piglets because it might offend muslims?
Zartanic	Posted - 2009.10.01 18:40:00 - [82] Edited by: Zartanic on 01/10/2009 18:44:35 Edited by: Zartanic on 01/10/2009 18:43:20 Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 Originally by: Zartanic Then if your offended put in a complaint. I'm fairly immune to what players say or do in a game but not everyone is like me, its outside the game I care about. Goonswarm are just a bunch of harmless gamers trying to look cool and be different, that's how I see them. In fact if they thought no one was bothered by it they wouldn't do it would they? Their whole philosophy is griefing and your playing straight into their hands. To be honest, I'm not necessarily offended precisely because I know the Goons are just a bunch of ******s looking for attention. But that is not what I'm debating. What I find interesting is how religious intolerance is accepted and found to be funny/amusing while race or other forms of hateful intolerances are not. And for the record, I was not convinced with your explenation. I'm not saying it's wrong, just that it didn't convince me. The main problem is that offence and what is offensive are highly subjective in some, not all, cases. So its not possible to always agree although some are clearly obvious, like Auschwitz, and so clearly irrelevant to the discussion. They are strawman arguments. That's why I dislike gut reactions to perceived sleights which seems to be the norm these days. People also have a habit of bringing up these strawmen to get their own way as they have in these posts. Its seems a normal and accepted method of arguing despite being clearly irrelevant, where does Goonswarm mention Auschwitz? The media, politicians and our institutions use strawmen regularly. I often see people use this intolerance as a method to feign offence to get their own way, seek advantage and control or simply grief others. Like some I do find that highly offensive in its own right. If someone is offended though they can report.
Hanso Sparxx Order of Shadows	Posted - 2009.10.01 18:45:00 - [83] ITT - Idiots who don't know the meanings of words, and are offended by them because they mis-interpret what they mean. read a book for flyingspaghettimonster's sake. ------------------ Go Deep!
Chi'kote Serenity Ascension G-R-I-E-V-A-N-C-E	Posted - 2009.10.01 18:49:00 - [84] Originally by: Hanso Sparxx ITT - Idiots who don't know the meanings of words, and are offended by them because they mis-interpret what they mean. read a book for flyingspaghettimonster's sake. Its not about what Webster's says a word's definition is, it is how the word is used.
Zartanic	Posted - 2009.10.01 18:50:00 - [85] Originally by: Hanso Sparxx ITT - Idiots who don't know the meanings of words, and are offended by them because they mis-interpret what they mean. read a book for flyingspaghettimonster's sake. I also suspect Goonswarm have had countless complaints but many would be malicious. How does CCP separate the genuine ones when its not clear cut?
MatrixSkye Mk2 Minmatar	Posted - 2009.10.01 18:51:00 - [86] Originally by: Zartanic The main problem is that offence and what is offensive are highly subjective in some, not all, cases. So its not possible to always agree although some are clearly obvious, like Auschwitz, and so clearly irrelevant to the discussion. They are strawman arguments. That's why I dislike gut reactions to perceived sleights which seems to be the norm these days. People also have a habit of bringing up these strawmen to get their own way as they have in these posts. Its seems a normal and accepted method of arguing despite being clearly irrelevant, where does Goonswarm mention Auschwitz? The media, politicians and our institutions do it regularly. I often see people use this intolerance as a method to feign offence to get their own way, seek advantage and control or simply grief others. Like some I do find that highly offensive in its own right. Ok, you bring up a very good point. But I just have to clear that I'm not using Auschwitz as a strawman, rather as an example to play the other side of the coin. Although I do agree with you that other forms can be used say, by politicians, to push their own agendas I think they do have 'some' relevance. Now it all depends on the context and reasons they're being used. For example, if a player is trying to justify an offensive corp name such as Auschwitz based on the fact that Goons have trademarked "Jihad" then this player can go stick his foot up his ass for all I care. BUT, and here's my point, it still doesn't make what the Goons do right. And in fact, strawman aside, this idiot unwittingly brought up a good point; where is the line drawn? Now being overly sensitive is a problem in of itself and this game wouldn't be where it is if CCP were to cater to everyone's sentiments. But still, there must be a line somewhere. And where is it? Obviously it lies somewhere between "Racial intolerance isn't allowed" and "religious intolerance" is. Basically, you can mock events that cause death due to religious extremism but not events that cause death due to racial/national extremism.
small chimp	Posted - 2009.10.01 18:52:00 - [87] People seem to be thinking that it is natural for a muslim or someone else to be offended by terrorist jokes. I think this is because they think that terrorism is a natural part of islam?
Zartanic	Posted - 2009.10.01 18:55:00 - [88] Originally by: Chi'kote Originally by: Hanso Sparxx ITT - Idiots who don't know the meanings of words, and are offended by them because they mis-interpret what they mean. read a book for flyingspaghettimonster's sake. Its not about what Webster's says a word's definition is, it is how the word is used. That's reasonable, especially as English is such a contextual language which is why its hard to learn and why some of EVE game text reads badly or imprecisely despite being correct English. The real issue in the UK though was a judgement that it was the perception of the 'victim' to a word that was relevant and the intended usage was not relevant at all. Of course that opened up the whole thing to anyone who wants to be malicious, has an agenda or simply take unfair advantage and there are a lot of those people around.
Cheesestick Charlie	Posted - 2009.10.01 18:58:00 - [89] Edited by: Cheesestick Charlie on 01/10/2009 18:58:36 Goons trolled you. Gratz.
S'crow	Posted - 2009.10.01 19:00:00 - [90] Originally by: 000Hunter000 Originally by: Gaborelle im goona wait til johovah-swarm comes out and i will come knocking on your door to try convert ya :P Arn't the goonies a lot like Jehova's allready? i mean they try to convert u and then take all ur money While I understand and appreciate the humor here , I thought I should point out that we do not try to take anyone's money. We spend hours volunteering for free, handing out free stuff, and on rare occasion inform people they may donate small amounts for support, but only if they really want to, and half the time we don't even bring that up. Also the correct spelling is "Jehovah"

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