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Signal11th
507
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Posted - 2012.06.13 19:04:00 -
[31] - Quote
Yeep wrote:0.0 alliances should be allowed to set the clone costs in their stations (to zero if they want)
Want a free clone? Join a spaceholding alliance.
What is it with the Goons lately?? Have upped your IQ limit to get in?? Actually ^^ that I find a bloody good idea.
God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!"-á I came second and won a toaster. |
Marlona Sky
Massive PVPness Psychotic Tendencies.
1138
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 20:45:00 -
[32] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:CSM IT HAS BEEN FIVE (5) DAYS SINCE I MADE THIS PROPOSAL THREAD HAVE YOU OPENED A DIALOG WITH THE DEVELOPERS YET ABOUT THIS ISSUE
Not everyone has direct access to CCP when they want a mechanic changed.
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
Marlona Sky
Massive PVPness Psychotic Tendencies.
1138
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 20:47:00 -
[33] - Quote
Yeep wrote:0.0 alliances should be allowed to set the clone costs in their stations (to zero if they want)
Want a free clone? Join a spaceholding alliance.
What is your reasoning behind this change being null player owned station exclusive?
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
Bossy Lady
Aliastra Gallente Federation
69
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 22:12:00 -
[34] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:Yeep wrote:0.0 alliances should be allowed to set the clone costs in their stations (to zero if they want)
Want a free clone? Join a spaceholding alliance. What is your reasoning behind this change being null player owned station exclusive?
Jump clone costs can be set to zero already?
Yeah actually it would be a nice feature if player-owned stations could offer the facility to give free clones at the expense of the station owner. That would genuinely promote PvP, maintain the ISK sink and provide a legitimate reason to actually own a station.
Posting on this character because apparently some people get upset when they're asked difficult questions. M. |
Lysaeus
Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
23
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Posted - 2012.06.14 11:15:00 -
[35] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:My clones cost more than noob clones do! Remove clone cost and increase isk sinks that penalize newer players equally so that I don't have to pay more regardless of my increased earning potential. But just so you guize like it could increase pvp
Not supported.
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Katarina Reid
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
196
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Posted - 2012.06.14 13:42:00 -
[36] - Quote
Dont like the clone costs down grade your char. I sold my 80mil sp char gone down to 40mil sp. I have 3 other pvp alts 20mil sp. If you keep training your char till its 200mil a pod dont complain its your fault. |
Signal11th
514
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Posted - 2012.06.15 08:36:00 -
[37] - Quote
Katarina Reid wrote:Dont like the clone costs down grade your char. I sold my 80mil sp char gone down to 40mil sp. I have 3 other pvp alts 20mil sp. If you keep training your char till its 200mil a pod dont complain its your fault.
lol, did you actually read this post before you clicked on "submit" so your answer is don't train or sell you alt for a lower trained alt. Genius! God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!"-á I came second and won a toaster. |
Katarina Reid
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
196
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 09:38:00 -
[38] - Quote
Signal11th wrote:Katarina Reid wrote:Dont like the clone costs down grade your char. I sold my 80mil sp char gone down to 40mil sp. I have 3 other pvp alts 20mil sp. If you keep training your char till its 200mil a pod dont complain its your fault. lol, did you actually read this post before you clicked on "submit" so your answer is don't train or sell you alt for a lower trained alt. Genius!
Yh i did its just people moaning about paying to much for a pod again. If you want high skilled char's there is a cost. look at the other threads here here here |
DeBingJos
Avalon Project Shadow Rock Alliance
303
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 09:53:00 -
[39] - Quote
My income has not gone up for a the last two years, yet my clonecost prohibits me from taking a small ship into null.
We don't all make 200mil/hour. I barely make enough to pvp because I hate grinding. Fix FW ! |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4050
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 10:21:00 -
[40] - Quote
DeBingJos wrote:My income has not gone up for a the last two years, yet my clonecost prohibits me from taking a small ship into null.
We don't all make 200mil/hour. I barely make enough to pvp because I hate grinding.
Honestly if you can't cover clone costs then you either need to look again at your ISK making profession or stop dying quite so often.
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
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Signal11th
518
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Posted - 2012.06.15 10:55:00 -
[41] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:DeBingJos wrote:My income has not gone up for a the last two years, yet my clonecost prohibits me from taking a small ship into null.
We don't all make 200mil/hour. I barely make enough to pvp because I hate grinding. Honestly if you can't cover clone costs then you either need to look again at your ISK making profession or stop dying quite so often.
Although I see where your coming from even myself haven't made an isk in the last what...3 months, I'm lucky that I have ISK behind me but I can imagine they are people like myself who can't log in that often or if they can they are limited to either ratting or pvp'ing.
And really you should'nt have to rat just to afford a pod you can go out pvp'ing in. When you can go out and pvp in a 2 mil rifter thats great, christ you can make that in 2 mins but when your clone cost 40mil plus thats not that attainable on a tight "time" budget.
Yes I know people will say well spend one day ratting so you can pvp for the rest of the week but it just seems that the pod expense is just something to annoy older players. God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!"-á I came second and won a toaster. |
Marlona Sky
Massive PVPness Psychotic Tendencies.
1180
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 15:37:00 -
[42] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:DeBingJos wrote:My income has not gone up for a the last two years, yet my clonecost prohibits me from taking a small ship into null.
We don't all make 200mil/hour. I barely make enough to pvp because I hate grinding. Honestly if you can't cover clone costs then you either need to look again at your ISK making profession or stop dying quite so often.
The argument you just used Malcanis is getting really old. It does not matter if an old player can or can not make their clone cost fast or not. The fact that it cost what it does discourages PvPing in smaller ships regardless.
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
Lysaeus
Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
23
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Posted - 2012.06.15 18:34:00 -
[43] - Quote
Even if they do drop clone costs risk averse carebears like yourself will just find another reason to keep being risk averse to the point of not flying expensive ships in PVP.
HTFU |
DeBingJos
Avalon Project Shadow Rock Alliance
303
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 18:48:00 -
[44] - Quote
Lysaeus wrote:Even if they do drop clone costs risk averse carebears like yourself will just find another reason to keep being risk averse to the point of not flying expensive ships in PVP.
HTFU
Well that is the point. You can choose the ship you fly in pvp. That way you can risk as much isk as you want. However your pod keeps getting more expensive, appart from not training there is nothing you can do about it. That is why is discourages veteran players to fly smaller ships in nullsec and wh's.
Fix FW ! |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4064
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 19:33:00 -
[45] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:Malcanis wrote:DeBingJos wrote:My income has not gone up for a the last two years, yet my clonecost prohibits me from taking a small ship into null.
We don't all make 200mil/hour. I barely make enough to pvp because I hate grinding. Honestly if you can't cover clone costs then you either need to look again at your ISK making profession or stop dying quite so often. The argument you just used Malcanis is getting really old. It does not matter if an old player can or can not make their clone cost fast or not. The fact that it cost what it does discourages PvPing in smaller ships regardless.
"old" isn't a synonym for "wrong", at least not in my lexicon.
Why not cut to the chase and make T1 frigates & destroyers free like rookie ships then? Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Dyvim Slorm
MNU Operations Luna Sanguinem
29
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 12:14:00 -
[46] - Quote
DeBingJos wrote:Lysaeus wrote:Even if they do drop clone costs risk averse carebears like yourself will just find another reason to keep being risk averse to the point of not flying expensive ships in PVP.
HTFU Well that is the point. You can choose the ship you fly in pvp. That way you can risk as much isk as you want. However your pod keeps getting more expensive, appart from not training there is nothing you can do about it. That is why is discourages veteran players to fly smaller ships in nullsec and wh's.
But the clone cost is known in advance so just factor it in. |
The Chronophage
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
10
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 15:00:00 -
[47] - Quote
Just get a combat toon with minimum skills for pvp. A 60mil sp toon should be fighting in a stealth bomber, not a rifter.
FFS you could get a rifter-ready alt in less than a week (as in decent skilled in all weapon and support skills). |
Kinis Deren
EVE University Ivy League
52
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 18:48:00 -
[48] - Quote
Not supported.
Risk averse much? I believe this is relevant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgvM7av1o1Q
Paying for your med clone is insurance for your skill points. If you haven't got the ISK, fly at your own risk and suffer the consequences should you get podded. Earn some ISK in game, or sell a PLEX then upgrade your clone. Either way, the problem is solved without the need to change game mechanics. |
Mocam
EVE University Ivy League
144
|
Posted - 2012.06.17 03:27:00 -
[49] - Quote
Kinis Deren wrote:Not supported. Risk averse much? I believe this is relevant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgvM7av1o1QPaying for your med clone is insurance for your skill points. If you haven't got the ISK, fly at your own risk and suffer the consequences should you get podded. Earn some ISK in game, or sell a PLEX then upgrade your clone. Either way, the problem is solved without the need to change game mechanics.
EVE is a single char MMO, not designed for "fleets" via the UI and such, which you control. It was designed for a single account to put up with penalties and risks, not for your 3+ accounts & plex buyers to fund their avoidance of them. Then again, times do change and we really don't need any PvP players in this game that aren't willing to fund it via multiple accounts and/or PLEX? ...
Let's assume your "mindset" isn't pervasive in this game and go with some old info, shall we?
Do you remember these parts?
- "PvE for income, PvP costs" - SP goes across both and you can train 1 char to do *EVERYTHING*. (odd concept eh? Not having alts "focused"? *gasp*)
Based upon the antiquated "single account" logic - having base-line increased PvP costs due to SP, without offsetting income potential, doesn't make sense. At a certain point, your ability to make more will not go up to offset increased costs.
Or do you really think that the income potential differences between a 3 year old char and a 9 year old char are that great? Yet that 9 year old char is going to pay a hell of a lot more for that med clone, which is only at risk if they "bother" to PvP at all.
For your "PLEX it!" and "5 alts" players, It's "chump change" so a few peanuts less won't matter to them anymore than an increase would. It's the others that it hits and it would lessen the burden on them while also bringing into line the income potential with the costs -- which currently is not the case.
(personally I don't care either way but I do think that this "protective" cost should be matched to income potential and it's not. Not as you advance in SP -- the income potential zero's out but the costs keep going up and that's a bit off.) |
Saile Litestrider
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2012.06.17 11:39:00 -
[50] - Quote
I'd just like to point out that the current increasingly heavy cost of clones encourages carebears to remain carebears, and discourages them from stepping out into the deeper waters. Because while it's easy to learn in a 500k frigate, when that frigate is backed by risking the loss of some 40+ million for a clone, a risk-averse PvE player is just going to declare it not worth the time and effort, whereas they might have gone on to become a great PvPer. Training up an alt to learn on has the same sort of investment, in time and either training time on your main or PLEX, again making it a discouraging factor.
I think we should be encouraging people to PvP, don't you? |
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Commit Sudoku
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
60
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 09:04:00 -
[51] - Quote
1 mil sp in trade skills is enough to plex + plenty of 100m clones hope this helps
if you can't afford your clones pfftahahaa guy on foreground: me posting guy in background: you |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
1774
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 14:20:00 -
[52] - Quote
Commit Sudoku wrote:if you can't afford your clones pfftahahaa
Meh. It's not about affording them. It's a silly and archaic mechanic that is a (small) barrier to PVP.
To me, it's about the annoyance of having to refresh my clone when I do get podded. Losing SP because you forgot to click a few buttons and shell out an insignificant sum of cash seems points. Loss of implants and being relocated to your cloning facility is penalty enough.
Maybe have an NPC station cloning fee deducted upon activation of the clone? It's time to put an end to CCP's war on piracy. Fight your own battles and stop asking CCP to do it for you. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4081
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 14:47:00 -
[53] - Quote
Mocam wrote:Kinis Deren wrote:Not supported. Risk averse much? I believe this is relevant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgvM7av1o1QPaying for your med clone is insurance for your skill points. If you haven't got the ISK, fly at your own risk and suffer the consequences should you get podded. Earn some ISK in game, or sell a PLEX then upgrade your clone. Either way, the problem is solved without the need to change game mechanics. EVE is a single char MMO, not designed for "fleets" via the UI and such, which you control. It was designed for a single account to put up with penalties and risks, not for your 3+ accounts & plex buyers to fund their avoidance of them. Then again, times do change and we really don't need any PvP players in this game that aren't willing to fund it via multiple accounts and/or PLEX? ... Let's assume your "mindset" isn't pervasive in this game and go with some old info, shall we? Do you remember these parts? - "PvE for income, PvP costs" - SP goes across both and you can train 1 char to do *EVERYTHING*. (odd concept eh? Not having alts "focused"? *gasp*) Based upon the antiquated "single account" logic - having base-line increased PvP costs due to SP, without offsetting income potential, doesn't make sense. At a certain point, your ability to make more will not go up to offset increased costs. Or do you really think that the income potential differences between a 3 year old char and a 9 year old char are that great? Yet that 9 year old char is going to pay a hell of a lot more for that med clone, which is only at risk if they "bother" to PvP at all. For your "PLEX it!" and "5 alts" players, It's "chump change" so a few peanuts less won't matter to them anymore than an increase would. It's the others that it hits and it would lessen the burden on them while also bringing into line the income potential with the costs -- which currently is not the case. (personally I don't care either way but I do think that this "protective" cost should be matched to income potential and it's not. Not as you advance in SP -- the income potential zero's out but the costs keep going up and that's a bit off.)
A 30M ISK clone holds something like 135M SP. It really isn't a problem. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Abulurd Boniface
Shadow State SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 18:04:00 -
[54] - Quote
Not supported.
All the ISK sink, PvP risk, lore arguments aside, losing your pod should bite. Losing your high-sp pod should bite harder. All the more reason to pay attention to what you're doing. All the more reason to win the fight if you find yourself in one.
I am not in favor of removing risk from the game. You take the risk, you pay the price.
If it doesn't feel like "I must be 7 kinds of stupid for taking a risk like this" from time to time, you're not doing it right.
Removing the risk of having to replace an expensive clone dilutes the experience, makes it that much less meaningful to engage in combat. It's not 'laying it on the line' any more. It's a stick fight with cushions at the ends. *giggle* that tickled.
A fight in EVE has to remain bloody, brutal and mean. You have to want to rip out the sink to throw it at the other guy/girl's head.
The next step is to fully insure your ship and its contents. More incentive for PvP because even less risk of losing valuables. Before you know it, we're bouncing around New Eden in a big rubber ball and nobody gets hurt anymore. Excuse me as I revisit my latest calorie download.
Don't take that vital risk away, don't destroy the character of EVE. |
Anrj
Z3R0 RETURN MINING INC. Li3 Federation
2
|
Posted - 2012.06.19 03:42:00 -
[55] - Quote
Abulurd Boniface wrote:Not supported.
All the ISK sink, PvP risk, lore arguments aside, losing your pod should bite. Losing your high-sp pod should bite harder. All the more reason to pay attention to what you're doing. All the more reason to win the fight if you find yourself in one.
I am not in favor of removing risk from the game. You take the risk, you pay the price.
If it doesn't feel like "I must be 7 kinds of stupid for taking a risk like this" from time to time, you're not doing it right.
Removing the risk of having to replace an expensive clone dilutes the experience, makes it that much less meaningful to engage in combat. It's not 'laying it on the line' any more. It's a stick fight with cushions at the ends. *giggle* that tickled.
A fight in EVE has to remain bloody, brutal and mean. You have to want to rip out the sink to throw it at the other guy/girl's head.
The next step is to fully insure your ship and its contents. More incentive for PvP because even less risk of losing valuables. Before you know it, we're bouncing around New Eden in a big rubber ball and nobody gets hurt anymore. Excuse me as I revisit my latest calorie download.
Don't take that vital risk away, don't destroy the character of EVE.
I absolutely agree, maybe it's just the OCD talking, but it's still bugging me about how dusters will get cheaper clones than capsuleers. For now I'll just keep telling myself that they're inferior meatbags. |
Soldarius
TreadStone Standard The 99 Percent
245
|
Posted - 2012.06.19 09:54:00 -
[56] - Quote
Kinis Deren wrote:Not supported. Risk averse much? I believe this is relevant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgvM7av1o1QPaying for your med clone is insurance for your skill points. If you haven't got the ISK, fly at your own risk and suffer the consequences should you get podded. Earn some ISK in game, or sell a PLEX then upgrade your clone. Either way, the problem is solved without the need to change game mechanics.
So your solution is to pay for your game time through either PLEX or cash, and then pay again not to lose the game time I've already bought? Flat out **** you. This has nothing to do with risk adverse. This has to do with losing potentially months of skill training.
If it weren't for warp bubbles, I would agree and say HTFU, learn to PVP. But because a pod has nearly no chance of escape if in a warp bubble, I think something should be done to make PVP more attractive for high-SP players.
In comparison, we as pod pilots always have the choice of whether or not to use implants. We get to choose which implants to use, if any. We can spend 0 isk or billions. It is entirely up to us. We accept the risk because it is our choice. We only lose isk.
But with clones, your choice is to pay out the nose, or lose weeks if not months of skill training. If you do not upgrade your clone you WILL lose SP. From http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/What_happens_when_my_character_dies :
Quote:If you have a lot of skills trained to level 5 then the skill points will be removed from the highest ranked of those skills.
However, for example, if you have a rank 12 skill at level 1 and a rank 4 skill at level 5, the skill points would be removed from the rank 4 skill as you have more skill points there.
When a skill has been selected, the system deducts the skill points your character has and the amount of skill points your clone saves. It then takes 5% of those skill points away, as long as that amount doesnGÇÖt total 50% of your total skill points in that skill.
To illustrate; if you have 10.000 skill points and your clone covers 9.000, the system removes 5% off 1.000 skill points, leaving 9950 skill points.
My highest-ranked level 5 skill is Caldari Battleship. It and all racial BS skills are 8x skills. They have a maximum SP investment of 2,048,000 SP. Thus the maximum SP loss would be 1,024,000 SP. For a titan pilot, it would be twice that, since titans are 16x skills.
Now say for some reason I get podded in a fleet battle and end up at a facility with no clone vat and thus can't upgrade without going elsewhere. Undock and whammo. Instalocking Hurricane and sabre on the undock. Squish. 43.6M - 900,000 = 42.7M. 42.7M *.05 = Up to 2,135,000 SP lost. Fortunately, that is reduced to the maximum of 50%, or the above mentioned 1,024,000 SP. How would you like to lose 3 weeks of training time?
Now imagine what this does to a super cap pilot? Or a titan pilot? This is not about risk adversion. It's a guarantee. You WILL eventually get podded. Thus clone fees are simply a mandatory tax on all players for the privilege of undocking. It is one that effects high SP players far more than low SP ones.
The same isk sink effect could be had by instituting docking fees. However, these could be focused on larger ships, which is imo a much better indicator of wealth than SP. (Just a thought for comparison, not an actual suggestion.)
Forgetting to upgrade your clone when you cross the max SP rating of a clone is no big deal. But forgetting to upgrade after losing a clone or death clone jumping is another matter entirely. This is not about risk. The risk is 100% certain. You will get podded, and you will lose SP.
High SP pilots do not have a choice. They MUST insure or lose millions of SP when they get podded. And they will get podded, thus they have a mandatory isk-sink ranging into the hundreds of millions. The cost of clones is a major deterrent to high-SP pilots PvPing in nul. I believe a different formula is needed. A simple reduction of the costs would make things better, though not entirely solving the issue.
Another option is as indicated above, allow station owners to set the base cost and/or cost progression of clone fees. I find this to be a unique and potentially lucrative method of generating isk for the station owner while providing a valuable and highly desirable service. Station owners would have to compete for the best prices. This seems at first glance to be a fairly simple change, one that involves few dev resources beyond adding the appropriate UI elements to the already existing station interface. Thus it would likely fall under Team Superfriends. Send a note or twitter to CCP Punkturis.
Docking fees could be done exactly the same. Mandatory in empire, owner-set in nul. We already have this for repair fees. The lower cost of clones would likely be seen by high SP pilots an an advantage of operating in nulsec. "How do you kill that which has no life?" |
Kaelie Onren
Nyan Cat Logistics PNG Associates
31
|
Posted - 2012.06.19 15:32:00 -
[57] - Quote
The Chronophage wrote:Just get a combat toon with minimum skills for pvp. A 60mil sp toon should be fighting in a stealth bomber, not a rifter.
FFS you could get a rifter-ready alt in less than a week (as in decent skilled in all weapon and support skills).
Exactly. If you noticed you have 3 char slots. If you main is too SP high to PvP without costing you (ahem) *more than you can afford* just stop training your main and start training up a PvP alt.
This is not WoW. Or an FPS where getting killed just means respawning at a spawn point and you jump back into the fight with nary a blink.
Remember that big alliances supply frigs and dessies for free. No clone fee is going to seriously increase the number of goon-like behaviour from alliance members (besides, it will be 'free' to jump in and shoot who you like) with no downside for losing.
Also, if everyone was a player like you, just logging in occasionally, doing nothing but burning isk PvPing, and never do PvE, then that would be unfair. Miners and industrialists have to produce things so that you can buy the tools of PvP. In doing so, they put themselves into the role of 'prey' while doing it. To make it balanced you, the PvPer, must play the part of 'prey' sometimes as well, when you go do your PvE'ing that is when you have a chance to give back to the circle of life, and generate isk* and loot to put back into the system.
Still not supported. Mostly because riskless or super low risk PvPing is not really EvE-like.
*recall that the biggest isk faucet is PvE missions.
|
Kaelie Onren
Nyan Cat Logistics PNG Associates
31
|
Posted - 2012.06.19 15:50:00 -
[58] - Quote
Soldarius wrote:
Forgetting to upgrade your clone when you cross the max SP rating of a clone is no big deal. But forgetting to upgrade after losing a clone or death clone jumping is another matter entirely. This is not about risk. The risk is 100% certain. You will get podded, and you will lose SP.
So you pretty much just summed up (with the help of a lot of nice numbers and formulae) that if you screw up in EvE it could really cost you, isk or time(SP)-wise. I think that was part of the game design, and working as intended.
Quote: Another option is as indicated above, allow station owners to set the base cost and/or cost progression of clone fees. I find this to be a unique and potentially lucrative method of generating isk for the station owner while providing a valuable and highly desirable service. Station owners would have to compete for the best prices. This seems at first glance to be a fairly simple change, one that involves few dev resources beyond adding the appropriate UI elements to the already existing station interface. Thus it would likely fall under Team Superfriends. Send a note or twitter to CCP Punkturis.
Docking fees could be done exactly the same. Mandatory in empire, owner-set in nul. We already have this for repair fees. The lower cost of clones would likely be seen by high SP pilots an an advantage of operating in nulsec.
Not a bad suggestion, but then free stations would be setup by all alliances more often than not. Most big alliances aren't looking to make cash from their pilots by way of fees. They make isk hand over fist by mining moon goo. Or mining belts. Or they charge system rental fees. Think about the incentive system you are toying with here: Big alliances WANT there members to keep on fighting, getting killed and coming back for more in fleet ops. Why do you think they supply grunt ships for free? Why would they ever want to charge their members for clones? This change will essentially be making clones free. Which has all the problems outlined already. Maybe this would be viable if with appropriate sov mods it could lower the clone cost (so that it costs the alliance something so that they cannot do it for all their stations) I think it would be okay if a very limited number (maybe even the headquarters station) of an Alliance Corp can set the cost of clones. That way, if goons try to burn Jita again, they can't take advantage of free clones as their only free clone station is far out in null.*
*But that's not really relavant, as we know goons use PvP/Gank alts. Which, I think, somebody suggested you should do as well, and problem solved.
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Eternal Error
Exitus Acta Probant
38
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 22:55:00 -
[59] - Quote
It's really not that bad in its current state. Unless you have a readily available solution as to how to make up the lost ISK sink, I don't support this. However, I've noticed a lot of nullsec whiners who basically want free pvp... no implants, not clone costs, more jump clones... why don't we all just move to the test server? |
Cyprus Black
Ascension Corporation
230
|
Posted - 2012.06.21 13:50:00 -
[60] - Quote
The whole clone system is antiquated and needs a revamp. Yes I am in favor of reducing clone costs. You wouldn't complain about needles when you get a tattoo. So why would you complain about PvP when you play EVE? |
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