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Marconus Orion
Massive PVPness
207
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Posted - 2012.07.14 05:08:00 -
[91] - Quote
Elzon1 wrote:Just in case someone didn't notice there has been mention that there are clone blueprints on SiSi (test server). There was mention of this in the test server feedback forum: Feedback ThreadSo, it seems CCP has listened and instead of simply getting rid of cloning costs they are allowing us to build and market our own clones. I personally think this is an awesome change as it doesn't drastically effect everyone who doesn't want to use it. Also, it reinvigorates pvp with higher sp characters. Its all good. 
Until I see something real that hits TQ, I will never ease up on the pressure. What you are talking about is currently just something found on the dev server/tool/something and not really on SiSi. |
Shameless Avenger
266
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Posted - 2012.07.17 21:11:00 -
[92] - Quote
I want to see clone insurance services. 100m sp main and 60m sp alts. 
"This is the Ninja. He will scan you down; he will salvage your wrecks and there shall be no aggro" ~ The Story of the Ninja |
Bubanni
SniggWaffe
YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
352
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Posted - 2012.07.17 22:36:00 -
[93] - Quote
Shameless Avenger wrote:I want to see clone insurance services. 100m sp main and 60m sp alts.
Clone insurance... that's an interesting idea :) why isn't there a insurance on clones when there is on ships... my clone is more expensive than a bc hull almost... and the reasoning for ships to have insurance is just as good?
I have in the past... had to borrow isk from friends just to cover my clone cost... just saying |
Shameless Avenger
268
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Posted - 2012.07.17 22:54:00 -
[94] - Quote
Bubanni wrote:Shameless Avenger wrote:I want to see clone insurance services. 100m sp main and 60m sp alts. Clone insurance... that's an interesting idea :) why isn't there a insurance on clones when there is on ships... my clone is more expensive than a bc hull almost... and the reasoning for ships to have insurance is just as good? I have in the past... had to borrow isk from friends just to cover my clone cost... just saying
It has been suggested before...
In 2009: Linky
In 2011: Linky
In 2012: Linky
Somehow it never gets enough discussion. It is a decent idea.
"This is the Ninja. He will scan you down; he will salvage your wrecks and there shall be no aggro" ~ The Story of the Ninja |
Sheynan
Lighting the blight
17
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Posted - 2012.07.18 00:17:00 -
[95] - Quote
What about introducing a relatively long skill that cuts the clone costs ?
Seasoned players, who want to fly small stuff will have all that maxed out, so they have time for that skill. (and by this to further specialise into small-scale instead of going "meh I'll start training titans and caps now because I have everything else maxed out PVP-wise" )
And new players who have more important skills to train, don't need the skill.
WIN-WIN  |
Marconus Orion
Massive PVPness
217
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 00:26:00 -
[96] - Quote
Sheynan wrote:What about introducing a relatively long skill that cuts the clone costs ? Seasoned players, who want to fly small stuff will have all that maxed out, so they have time for that skill. (and by this to further specialise into small-scale instead of going "meh I'll start training titans and caps now because I have everything else maxed out PVP-wise" ) And new players who have more important skills to train, don't need the skill. WIN-WIN
Or just remove them completely. |
Jbiggs2
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers
Get Off My Lawn
2
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Posted - 2012.07.18 07:28:00 -
[97] - Quote
Marconus Orion wrote:Sheynan wrote:What about introducing a relatively long skill that cuts the clone costs ? Seasoned players, who want to fly small stuff will have all that maxed out, so they have time for that skill. (and by this to further specialise into small-scale instead of going "meh I'll start training titans and caps now because I have everything else maxed out PVP-wise" ) And new players who have more important skills to train, don't need the skill. WIN-WIN Or just remove them completely.
I support this, at 150mil sp - 45mil clones are fookin expensive!!!!
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Laechyd Eldgorn
Molden Heath Angels
41
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Posted - 2012.07.18 10:12:00 -
[98] - Quote
Insurance makes just things even more complicated, I believe even ccp wants to make thing simplier
Death would still have a meaning even if medical clone costs were cut down to REASONABLE level, you will still lose a ship and implants. When your average cheapy pvp clone with like 2x+4 implants gets destroyed cost is more than tech 2 frigate at high sp levels. This is not reasonable and realistic at all.
Remember this would only affect on medical clone cost which is relevant mostly when you want to fly ships which get destroyed pretty easily.
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Amy Garzan
Demon-War-Lords
Fatal Ascension
7
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Posted - 2012.07.19 18:59:00 -
[99] - Quote
Support this. Moar PVP = Better EvE |
Galea Wildfang
Inebriated Consortium Enterprises Inc.
0
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Posted - 2012.07.25 07:34:00 -
[100] - Quote
Well, risking a ship and the implants you fly with is the risk you take. Clone costs are nothing you can chose. You can't do anything to lessen your risk. I think the whole 'losing SP' idea is a bad one and clones should go to the trash bin.
It might encourage players to keep training their characters instead of forming an alt fleet if you get rid of clones or their costs.
Some people might have made a name for themselves and don't want to jump to an alt to have fun. The current concept discourages people to keep training their mains or fly into pvp with it.
In conclusion, I support the idea. |
Brisco County
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
48
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Posted - 2012.07.27 03:13:00 -
[101] - Quote
I love this idea. My clone costs something like 15 million ISK - kind of takes the fun out of f'ing around in a rifter.
Although, a problem I can foresee would be the self-destruct clone jumping that is used to jump across the map to stations that you have an office in. If clones were free, it would basically be a free clone jump with no cooldown. There would need to be a mechanic to prevent it from being abused. |
Revolution Rising
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
348
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 02:48:00 -
[102] - Quote
Brisco County wrote:I love this idea. My clone costs something like 15 million ISK - kind of takes the fun out of f'ing around in a rifter.
Although, a problem I can foresee would be the self-destruct clone jumping that is used to jump across the map to stations that you have an office in. If clones were free, it would basically be a free clone jump with no cooldown. There would need to be a mechanic to prevent it from being abused.
Naa just change the "change your home station" option to have a cooldown instead.
CSM7 Skype Leak
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Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
275
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Posted - 2012.07.31 13:31:00 -
[103] - Quote
The current clone costs are a nice idea - it adds a "versatility in one character vs cheap clones and multiple specialized characters" trade-off that could in theory be meaningful.
"Do I just keep training on my main forever or do I rather start a new character?" that's a hard decision and hard decisions are fun (imo).
The problem is that in practice nobody considers this a trade-off as continuing to train your main (who already has all the support skills you would have to train again on an alt) is just too good.
So players are left with a choice that is none and a bitter feeling every time they get podded after flying some ship that is cheap relative to their clone cost.
(I don't agree with the "more pvp" arguments - "more pvp" and "consequences" are directly opposed goals and I would not sacrifice the latter for the former; in EVE I spend 2-3 hours roaming around to find some target and might still come home empty-handed because other people are afraid to lose their ship and I don't want to throw away mine; in WoW I can have pvp non-stop from 2 minutes after I logged in up to the point where I decide to call it a day; go figure) |
Easthir Ravin
Easy Co.
Fatal Ascension
60
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Posted - 2012.08.09 05:03:00 -
[104] - Quote
+1
Complete agree with OP, it should be a simple upgrade service fee, and button you have to push, so that folks can still get F'd if they forget to upgrade clone. I mean that is not too much to ask a player.
2 cents
IN THE IMORTAL WORDS OF SOCRATES: -á" I drank WHAT?!" |
Esker Sheep
Havoc Violence and Chaos
BricK sQuAD.
3
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Posted - 2012.08.29 08:30:00 -
[105] - Quote
I'm opposed to this. The cost of clones is relative to the amount of SP you have. If you have a bazillion SP then you should have the necessary ISK to cover the cost of the clone.
New Eden is a hard, nasty, unforgiving place. It's one of the main reasons I play. Everything I do, or forget to do, has consequences. The removal of the clone upgrade cost would continue the process of turning New Eden into a happy fluffy place filled with unicorns and ponies.
If you don't want to pay the upgrade cost there's an easy solution, fly better and don't get podded.
Disclaimer: I'm a bitter-vet that's spent most of my clone's life in various 0.0 corps and alliances. The clone cost has never discouraged me from engaging in PvP. |
Marlona Sky
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
1251
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 08:56:00 -
[106] - Quote
Esker Sheep wrote:I'm opposed to this. The cost of clones is relative to the amount of SP you have. If you have a bazillion SP then you should have the necessary ISK to cover the cost of the clone.
New Eden is a hard, nasty, unforgiving place. It's one of the main reasons I play. Everything I do, or forget to do, has consequences. The removal of the clone upgrade cost would continue the process of turning New Eden into a happy fluffy place filled with unicorns and ponies.
If you don't want to pay the upgrade cost there's an easy solution, fly better and don't get podded.
Disclaimer: I'm a bitter-vet that's spent most of my clone's life in various 0.0 corps and alliances. The clone cost has never discouraged me from engaging in PvP.
I want the cost to be associated with the ship, not how long someone has been playing the game. You go on about 'happy fluffy place filled with unicorns and ponies' yet fail to realize there is no excitement and explosions by pressing the 'upgrade clone' button. With more combat happening due to the remove of clone upgrades there would in fact be very close if not more in ISK being blown up.
You view pressing a button to upgrade your clone as hard core, I view undocking with ships instead as being hard core because I know **** is going to blow up. I am more than willing to debate against anyone who does not see this. It is a trash mechanic that has outlived its purpose, if any at all and does nothing but discourages ships from blowing up.
Please take a moment to see the butterfly effect and perhaps entertain the idea of more combat as a good thing.
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
Esker Sheep
Havoc Violence and Chaos
BricK sQuAD.
3
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Posted - 2012.08.29 10:16:00 -
[107] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:Esker Sheep wrote:I'm opposed to this. The cost of clones is relative to the amount of SP you have. If you have a bazillion SP then you should have the necessary ISK to cover the cost of the clone.
New Eden is a hard, nasty, unforgiving place. It's one of the main reasons I play. Everything I do, or forget to do, has consequences. The removal of the clone upgrade cost would continue the process of turning New Eden into a happy fluffy place filled with unicorns and ponies.
If you don't want to pay the upgrade cost there's an easy solution, fly better and don't get podded.
Disclaimer: I'm a bitter-vet that's spent most of my clone's life in various 0.0 corps and alliances. The clone cost has never discouraged me from engaging in PvP. I want the cost to be associated with the ship, not how long someone has been playing the game. You go on about 'happy fluffy place filled with unicorns and ponies' yet fail to realize there is no excitement and explosions by pressing the 'upgrade clone' button. With more combat happening due to the remove of clone upgrades there would in fact be very close if not more in ISK being blown up. You view pressing a button to upgrade your clone as hard core, I view undocking with ships instead as being hard core because I know **** is going to blow up. I am more than willing to debate against anyone who does not see this. It is a trash mechanic that has outlived its purpose, if any at all and does nothing but discourages ships from blowing up. Please take a moment to see the butterfly effect and perhaps entertain the idea of more combat as a good thing.
Upgrading the clone isn't hard core, the risk of SP loss is. Risking ships isn't hard core, its expected. Isn't the golden rule of EVE don't fly what you can't afford to lose? Dying should have consequences. This is one of them. Yes, I've lost SP due to it.
If you want to talk about butterfly effects then look at this from the thin-edge of the wedge point of view. If we get rid of clone costs what is next? Better insurance?
As for debate. I don't think you really want that. You really want to make everyone see things from your point of view. I can see your point of view fine, I just don't agree with it. I don't think that high SP players that aren't already involved in PvP are unlikely to be lured into it by the removal of the clone cost.
As an alternative proposal let player owned cloning facilities offer cheaper clones. Still keep the cost associated with them, but have the facility owning corporation pick up the tab. That would better fit the sandbox than just removing something because its annoying. I still don't like this though, there needs to be the potential of more than just ISK loss. |
Marlona Sky
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
1251
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 16:24:00 -
[108] - Quote
Esker Sheep wrote:If you want to talk about butterfly effects then look at this from the thin-edge of the wedge point of view. If we get rid of clone costs what is next? Better insurance?
No insurance.
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
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