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Gaborelle
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Posted - 2009.10.05 11:40:00 -
[1]
Something that would help improve ccp's chances of getting more industrialists living in 0.0 would be to give mining barges a bit of an overall hit point increase and extend their max targetting range to 50km (so their drones can actually be used properly).
currently t2 barges can barely tank 0.0 rats.... they have zero chance against a pvp fit t1 cruiser cos the cruisers can hit the barge from outside the barge's max lock range.
t1 barges really need a second mid slot (to allow for an invunerablity field and shield booster) & a 10% hp/cap increase and add a 3% bonus per level to invunerablity field resists as they die with one volley from a suicide ganker's smartbomb
there needs to be a max limit of 2 smartbombs per ship also to reduce suicide ganks or deny u an insurance payout if concord has killed u - in a realistic market insurance companies would not payout insurance for criminal gain
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Niccolado Starwalker
Shadow Templars
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Posted - 2009.10.05 11:44:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Gaborelle
Something that would help improve ccp's chances of getting more industrialists living in 0.0 would be to give mining barges a bit of an overall hit point increase and extend their max targetting range to 50km (so their drones can actually be used properly).
currently t2 barges can barely tank 0.0 rats.... they have zero chance against a pvp fit t1 cruiser cos the cruisers can hit the barge from outside the barge's max lock range.
t1 barges really need a second mid slot (to allow for an invunerablity field and shield booster) & a 10% hp/cap increase and add a 3% bonus per level to invunerablity field resists as they die with one volley from a suicide ganker's smartbomb
there needs to be a max limit of 2 smartbombs per ship also to reduce suicide ganks or deny u an insurance payout if concord has killed u - in a realistic market insurance companies would not payout insurance for criminal gain
That is not neccesary really. As soon the new system hit in, and the alliances cant control huge areas of regions anymore, they will band more togethet to protect what they have. Ofcource you wont get better protection against roving pirates, but in an alliance you will now have way better protection because the attacks will be less and less done on the whim. The future attacks will be more planned. That mean you will have better protection within the alliance and corporations out there, but on your own, you will be just as much as an sitting duck as you are today..
Originally by: Dianabolic
Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.10.05 11:44:00 -
[3]
So your theory is that making hi-sec even safer will get people into 0.0?
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Gaborelle
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Posted - 2009.10.05 11:46:00 -
[4]
it still wont get miners out in 0.0 unless barges get a buff.
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En Passant
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Posted - 2009.10.05 11:48:00 -
[5]
Smart Bombs aren't allowed in empire are they? Suicide ganks happen with traditional weaponry.
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Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.10.05 11:51:00 -
[6]
Originally by: En Passant
Smart Bombs aren't allowed in empire are they? Suicide ganks happen with traditional weaponry.
Smartbombs are, so long as you are not within 5km of a station or gate.
_____________________________________
Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout
:facepalm:
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W3370Pi4
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.10.05 11:52:00 -
[7]
suicide ganking is a game feature deal with it
if your area is dangerous move away
exhumers dont need to tank 0.0 rats your alt does.
_______
Join The"Legit Trading" channel |
RedLion
Caldari
State Constructions
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Posted - 2009.10.05 11:53:00 -
[8]
I want a super indestructible mining deathstar, and I am serious, i really want one! I think that mining ships are too weak.
CCP should learn from Blizzard, (allthough not overdo it like Blizzard), where they buffed the healers, (too much), but a little buff to miners would be nice.
For example could blizzard make it so that increased turret slots but not the possibility to have more strip miners. They could also increase mid slots. Low slots however would improve my afk mining capability, and I don't think they will increase no. of low slots.
I never mined in 0.0, and I will most likely never do it in the future, if nothing changes.
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The Gallenteans must be destroyed
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Niccolado Starwalker
Shadow Templars
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Posted - 2009.10.05 11:55:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Gaborelle
Edited by: Gaborelle on 05/10/2009 11:49:27
it still wont get miners out in 0.0 unless barges get a buff.
making suicide gankers get no insurance is more of a measure to help new players...to be honest
but as newer industrialist train up their many many time consuming & high cost skills in preparation for 0.0 life the suicide ganker get no insurence with also help.
First no matter how much you strengthen a barge with armour you will always be a sitting duck. its a mining vessel, not a combat ship. Therefore you need to look for external protection, not protection on your ship. The external protection however will be increased since it wont be as easy conquering new systems and regions anymore, thus providing increased overall protection! THAT IS THE PROTECTION YOU ARE LOOKING FOR! As a loner however, you will be as much as an sitting duck in deep space as you are today.
No, the most important thing in my opinion is: can CCP make the alliancces accept full time mission- and industrialists among them? Because its mostly these who are in empire space. What CCP have to find a way is to how both parties - the corp/alliance and the player can find use for each other. Not dead weight..
Originally by: Dianabolic
Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL |
Flibertygibbet
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Posted - 2009.10.05 11:59:00 -
[10]
the only way to make more people travel to 0.0 is to add more entrances to 0.0 a lot more.
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Rordan D'Kherr
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.10.05 12:03:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Gaborelle
Something that would help improve ccp's chances of getting more industrialists living in 0.0 would be to give mining barges a bit of an overall hit point increase and extend their max targetting range to 50km (so their drones can actually be used properly).
currently t2 barges can barely tank 0.0 rats.... they have zero chance against a pvp fit t1 cruiser cos the cruisers can hit the barge from outside the barge's max lock range.
t1 barges really need a second mid slot (to allow for an invunerablity field and shield booster) & a 10% hp/cap increase and add a 3% bonus per level to invunerablity field resists as they die with one volley from a suicide ganker's smartbomb
there needs to be a max limit of 2 smartbombs per ship also to reduce suicide ganks or deny u an insurance payout if concord has killed u - in a realistic market insurance companies would not payout insurance for criminal gain
Confirming carebear ships need urgent improvements.
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Gaborelle
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Posted - 2009.10.05 12:05:00 -
[12]
Originally by: RedLion
I never mined in 0.0, and I will most likely never do it in the future, if nothing changes.
sadly most miners think this way cos barges are just too weak.
and yes i know miners are supposed to have protection but even with protection all it takes is a cloaker to get a warp in on a barge and in comes a ganker to instapop the barge before the support gets a chance to respond simply cos barges are way to weak. t1 barges are weaker than most t1 frigates despite being cruiser size.
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Coco
The New Era
Huzzah Federation
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Posted - 2009.10.05 12:20:00 -
[13]
The mining ships as they are, are ok. However it is true that vs. a solo pvp ship and even more though against roaming gangs, the miner stands null chance. Currently the only way to survive is to stay aligned to a safespot / POS / station and warp off as soon as there is a neutral in local.
Now what I always have thought of being a nice idea for 0.0 mining is the following.
Introduce somekind of a bubble which protects the miner. You can only enter the bubble with the correct password and the bubble acts like a POS shield. With balanced hit points it would give the miner enough time to shout out for help via intel channel for alliance members or friends to come and aid him and fight off the people who disrubted his mining business.
Some features of the bubble to make it work:
The bubble itself should only be able to be launched from a mining ship, in order to prevent the abuse of this feature for normal gang warefare.
Everything within the bubble will not be able to warp off.
The anchor skill is needed to anchor it close to an asteroid.
Only people with the password can enter the area of the bubble.
Hitpoints of the bubble should allow enough time for close by friends to arrive (maybe travel time of 3 systems
After leaving the bubble there is a 5 sec recalibration time for the warp drive. (Gives time to get a point on the mining ship in case of an insta warp attempt, burn out of the bubble being aligned and hit warp once out of the bubble)
Thats just my thought when I read about how weak and vulnurable miners are especially in 0.0. I dont think that buffing the mining ships will be a solution to the problem. The bubble on the other hand would give a protection for a certain amount of time, if no friends show up well then you will still die, but at least you have a chance to call for help.
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JitaPriceChecker2
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Posted - 2009.10.05 12:24:00 -
[14]
What a fail topic.
Only thing that is broken is an insurance from concorded ships.
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Niccolado Starwalker
Shadow Templars
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Posted - 2009.10.05 12:24:00 -
[15]
personally I think it would have solved everything if CCP could find a way to have the alliances start recruiting full time industrialists, miners, missioners and casuals among them. They might not turn PvPers for a while, but in time they might try it out. Thats how I got into PvP in the first place.
Originally by: Dianabolic
Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL |
Dodgy Past
Amarr
Lollipops for Rancors
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Posted - 2009.10.05 12:35:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Gaborelle
Originally by: RedLion
I never mined in 0.0, and I will most likely never do it in the future, if nothing changes.
sadly most miners think this way cos barges are just too weak.
and yes i know miners are supposed to have protection but even with protection all it takes is a cloaker to get a warp in on a barge and in comes a ganker to instapop the barge before the support gets a chance to respond simply cos barges are way to weak. t1 barges are weaker than most t1 frigates despite being cruiser size.
If you want to play solo then yeah, 0.0 is never going to be for you.
You want a closed system ( 1 gate ) or 2 gates maximum. Bubble both gates and have guards there. This way you'll be able to prevent most interlopers even entering the system and if they bring overwhelming force you'll have plenty of warning to warp to a deep safe and log off.
Of course it does mean paying your guards a decent rate..... I suggest a sliding scale that decreases with the quantity of kills they get while guarding you ;)
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En Passant
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Posted - 2009.10.05 12:40:00 -
[17]
Buffing mining barges will not give the miners a pair of gonads.
Christ if they're whining about getting suicide ganked in empire, what would they say when they got ganked without the other guy dying?
"0.0 pvp is too harsh, we need asteroid belts to have concord drones that defend us"?
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Shootmenot dammit
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Posted - 2009.10.05 12:50:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Shootmenot dammit on 05/10/2009 12:50:53
Edited by: Shootmenot dammit on 05/10/2009 12:50:37
Originally by: Flibertygibbet
the only way to make more people travel to 0.0 is to add more entrances to 0.0 a lot more.
This man speaks the truth.
Bottlenecks, pipes and bubbles. A pain to get in, a pain to bring supplies, the need for infrastructure and logistics drives casual players away, and many just settle for High sec missioning and mining while enjoying the space opera setup.
Most people cannot be bothered, TBH.
And still, what many propose (making High sec less attractive)would work worse than, simply, making 0.0 shine more.
To achieve this, anything that promotes casual (small, rising, etc) acts getting a piece of the 0.0 action is really welcome.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.10.05 12:54:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Flibertygibbet
the only way to make more people travel to 0.0 is to add more entrances to 0.0 a lot more.
Pro-TipÖ: Getting into 0.0 is pretty easy now. The regional gates are way too big to bubble effeciently now. IIRC you need something like 18 large bobblues to cover an inter-regional. Also, some entry points are less populated than others...
Make the first trip in a fast T1 frigate like a Slasher, fit a MWD, speed mods and a prototype cloak. Scout out your route and make bookmarks and safespots.
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Dirk Mortice
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Posted - 2009.10.05 12:55:00 -
[20]
Hi guys,
I think that 0.0 mining really needs a buff to make it competitive in the current EVE world.
I think the best way to do this would be to nerf suicide ganking. Please make my miner invulnerable in high sec, and I think this will finally get people moving to 0.0
Ty
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Rordan D'Kherr
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.10.05 13:00:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Dirk Mortice
Hi guys,
I think that 0.0 mining really needs a buff to make it competitive in the current EVE world.
I think the best way to do this would be to nerf suicide ganking. Please make my miner invulnerable in high sec, and I think this will finally get people moving to 0.0
Ty
Pretty much this.
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Shootmenot dammit
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Posted - 2009.10.05 13:10:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Shootmenot dammit on 05/10/2009 13:10:38
Honestly, to populate 0.0 you DO need to make High sec SAFER.
We carebears aint' going to 0.0 no matter what. If Hulk mining in 0.8 nets us 2 millions per hour, that's what I'll make.
You 0.0 dwellers want to attract people that likes shooting others down.
By making Barges immune to suicide, all those that shoot barges and call themselves PvPers (LOL) will HAVE to move to 0.0 in order to keep shooting for a profit/fun.
It's just another way of solving the problem.
If you make barges less sturdy, there will be MORE gankers able to go after them, meaning more gankers WILL go after them, which in turns means that less combat-oriented pilots will bother to come to 0.0 to find targets.
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Doddy
The Executives
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.05 13:17:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Gaborelle
Something that would help improve ccp's chances of getting more industrialists living in 0.0 would be to give mining barges a bit of an overall hit point increase and extend their max targetting range to 50km (so their drones can actually be used properly).
currently t2 barges can barely tank 0.0 rats.... they have zero chance against a pvp fit t1 cruiser cos the cruisers can hit the barge from outside the barge's max lock range.
The whole point of having a corp or alliance is that you have actual combat ships which defend your industrial ships. Its really not that complicated. If you want a longer targeting range fit a sig amp.
re insurance - a realistic police force doesn't materialise out of thin air and assassinate you having instantly incapacitated your supposedly state of the art military vessel without asking questions either - its a game ffs.
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Doddy
The Executives
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.05 13:20:00 -
[24]
Quote:
If you make barges less sturdy, there will be MORE gankers able to go after them, meaning more gankers WILL go after them, which in turns means that less combat-oriented pilots will bother to come to 0.0 to find targets.
You think hi sec miner gankers are combat orientated ???  
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Colonel Xaven
Decadence.
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.05 13:26:00 -
[25]
Nerf Veldspar. Increase NPC taxes. Problem solved.
-CX |
Gaborelle
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Posted - 2009.10.05 13:27:00 -
[26]
i have mined in 0.0 before and will probably go back out again if things improve after dominion but it is not always possible to get enough of a support fleet to watch industrials cos
1. pvp'er hate babysitting industrials and are extremely difficult to get to x up in fleet in the first place.
2. pvp'ers that do x up get bored quickly and often decide to either log or roam thus leaving the industrials vunerable.
3. t3 ships are immune to bubbles & fly cloaked thus meaning industrials dont always time to warp out.
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Doddy
The Executives
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.05 13:29:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Gaborelle
Originally by: RedLion
I never mined in 0.0, and I will most likely never do it in the future, if nothing changes.
sadly most miners think this way cos barges are just too weak.
and yes i know miners are supposed to have protection but even with protection all it takes is a cloaker to get a warp in on a barge and in comes a ganker to instapop the barge before the support gets a chance to respond simply cos barges are way to weak. t1 barges are weaker than most t1 frigates despite being cruiser size.
You are far more likely to lose a hulk in hi sec where no one cares than in safe alliance held 0.0 space where anyone coming to kill you has to get past your pvp pilots. A retreiver or covetors drones will kill most t1 frigates btw, i killed a pirate wolf with a covetor once which was fun. Multiple barges means multiple flights of drones, and few 0.0 mining ops run without a tanking ship which is generally combat capable so you should never be defenceless even against a loan cloaker. Even if you do lose a t1 barge once a month its insurable so the loss is minimal, far less then the profit increase you can get from mining ark rather than trit for a few hours.
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Dodgy Past
Amarr
Lollipops for Rancors
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Posted - 2009.10.05 13:36:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Gaborelle
3. t3 ships are immune to bubbles & fly cloaked thus meaning industrials dont always time to warp out.
Maybe try watching local and mining aligned to a safe spot. Fit a cloak to your orca and make sure it isn't close to the warp in point.
The delay in targeting from decloaking is more than enough time for an Orca to cloak and start moving, then your guards can come in and get a shiny T3 kill.
I get the feeling that you don't value your guards enough or pay them enough. If they can make more isk guarding you than ratting I'd suspect you'd get a fair bit of support.
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Asuri Kinnes
Caldari
Adhocracy Incorporated
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Posted - 2009.10.05 13:43:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Asuri Kinnes on 05/10/2009 13:45:27
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Flibertygibbet
the only way to make more people travel to 0.0 is to add more entrances to 0.0 a lot more.
Pro-TipÖ: Getting into 0.0 is pretty easy now. The regional gates are way too big to bubble effeciently now. IIRC you need something like 18 large bobblues to cover an inter-regional. Also, some entry points are less populated than others...
Make the first trip in a fast T1 frigate like a Slasher, fit a MWD, speed mods and a prototype cloak. Scout out your route and make bookmarks and safespots.
Remind me why anyone bothers? You think its going to make it any easier to get people into 0.0 when it ends up beeing goonswarm corp a, b, c, d, Morsus Mihi corp a, b, c, d, Razor corp a, b, c, d...?
0.0 Corps & Alliances aren't doing a good enough job of recruiting. Its only going to get worse, but I wish you luck.
Originally by: Colonel Xaven
Edited by: Colonel Xaven on 05/10/2009 13:27:34
Nerf Veldspar. Nerf L4 income. Increase NPC taxes. Problem solved.
Do all that, and you still have the problem of "faceless" alliances. Still no reason to leave a player corp in hi-sec for a player corp in 0.0 - especially when the recruiting isn't there. vOv
Honor is that which you do when no one else is looking. |
Colonel Xaven
Decadence.
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.05 13:53:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Asuri Kinnes
Originally by: Colonel Xaven
Edited by: Colonel Xaven on 05/10/2009 13:27:34
Nerf Veldspar. Nerf L4 income. Increase NPC taxes. Problem solved.
Do all that, and you still have the problem of "faceless" alliances. Still no reason to leave a player corp in hi-sec for a player corp in 0.0 - especially when the recruiting isn't there. vOv
Player corps in hisec are not the majority of the crowd in Empire. To make 0.0 more attractive it is obvious that there are 2 ways:
1. make 0.0 more attractive then hisec or
2. make hisec less attractive than 0.0
The current situation is: Why should someone get into lowsec / 0.0 when he can mine and mission enough to pay for his chars with ISK and get rich while doing it?
The space holding alliances are not responsible to get players into 0.0 btw. So recruiting has nothing to do with this topic.
-CX |
Tippia
Raddick Explorations
Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2009.10.05 14:07:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Flibertygibbet
the only way to make more people travel to 0.0 is to add more entrances to 0.0 a lot more.
Pro-Tip™: Getting into 0.0 is pretty easy now. The regional gates are way too big to bubble effeciently now. IIRC you need something like 18 large bobblues to cover an inter-regional. Also, some entry points are less populated than others...
Make the first trip in a fast T1 frigate like a Slasher, fit a MWD, speed mods and a prototype cloak. Scout out your route and make bookmarks and safespots.
Barring that, get a corp mate out there, open up an office, switch your cloning station and suicide-warp your way there… 
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Gaborelle
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Posted - 2009.10.05 14:11:00 -
[32]
a possible solution to the getting industrials into 0.0 would be the big alliances not only renting out their 0.0 systems to industrial corps but also renting out "protection fleets".
example an indy corp (corp A) rents a system from a controlling alliance for say, 100mil a month for a non upgraded system or 200mil a month for a upgraded system
the controlling alliance supplies corp A with a 50 man protection fleet (corp b) for an additional 100mil per day (dt to dt) or 100 man protection fleet for 200mil per day.
corp B must lockdown all the adjacents sytems while corp A strip clean the system that has been rented.
part of the rental agreement could be that the mined mins get refined in the alliance owned refining station's and that way the controlling allaince gets it's cut of mins for it's own supercap projects.
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Dramaticus
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.10.05 14:26:00 -
[33]
mining in 0.0 is horrible and shouldnt be done
Please don't use RL pictuers of players in Sig without permission. - WeatherMan |
Tippia
Raddick Explorations
Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2009.10.05 14:33:00 -
[34]
Well, if it's any consolation, the new mining opportunities that come with the 0.0 infrastructure upgrades will most likely only be scannable sites — not static ones — which already offers a (tiny) amount of protection. In addition, since we're looking at a situation that will hopefully mean a more densely populated 0.0, chances are that you will have many more corp/alliance mates in the same system that will be on the lookout for targets and come to your help (and/or provide more easily scanned and sexier targets — safety in numbers and all that).
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.10.05 14:36:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Gaborelle
Edited by: Gaborelle on 05/10/2009 14:18:06
Edited by: Gaborelle on 05/10/2009 14:17:18
a possible solution to the getting industrials into 0.0 would be the big alliances not only renting out their 0.0 systems to industrial corps but also renting out "protection fleets".
example an indy corp (corp A) rents a system from a controlling alliance for say, 100mil a month for a non upgraded system or 200mil a month for a upgraded system
the controlling alliance supplies corp A with a 50 man protection fleet (corp b) for an additional 100mil per day (dt to dt) or 100 man protection fleet for 200mil per day.
So you want the PvPers to work for you for 2 million a day?
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Marcus Atntony
The Element Syndicate
Black Mesa Project
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Posted - 2009.10.05 14:39:00 -
[36]
I (and probably alot of other indy and non-indy players) dont want CCP to make it so any single/group of blockheads can take buffed barges out mining in 0.0 np. Thats not eve imo. If you cant take the heat, dont go in the fire 0.o.
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Gaborelle
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Posted - 2009.10.05 14:42:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Gaborelle on 05/10/2009 14:46:09
Originally by: Malcanis
Edited by: Malcanis on 05/10/2009 14:38:18
Originally by: Gaborelle
Edited by: Gaborelle on 05/10/2009 14:18:06
Edited by: Gaborelle on 05/10/2009 14:17:18
a possible solution to the getting industrials into 0.0 would be the big alliances not only renting out their 0.0 systems to industrial corps but also renting out "protection fleets".
example an indy corp (corp A) rents a system from a controlling alliance for say, 100mil a month for a non upgraded system or 200mil a month for a upgraded system
the controlling alliance supplies corp A with a 50 man protection fleet (corp b) for an additional 100mil per day (dt to dt) or 100 man protection fleet for 200mil per day.
So... you want the PvPers to work for you for 2 million a day each? Clean yer shoes, guv'nor! god bless you sweet master, a shiney sixpence! Thankee sir, now we can eat right well on turnips tonight! Only another 67 days doing protection work and I can save up for a shiney new HAC!
i was merely making an example to convey the idea - fees themselves would be determined on the alliance
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Dirk Mortice
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Posted - 2009.10.05 14:56:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Gaborelle
Edited by: Gaborelle on 05/10/2009 14:46:09
Originally by: Malcanis
Edited by: Malcanis on 05/10/2009 14:38:18
Originally by: Gaborelle
Edited by: Gaborelle on 05/10/2009 14:18:06
Edited by: Gaborelle on 05/10/2009 14:17:18
a possible solution to the getting industrials into 0.0 would be the big alliances not only renting out their 0.0 systems to industrial corps but also renting out "protection fleets".
example an indy corp (corp A) rents a system from a controlling alliance for say, 100mil a month for a non upgraded system or 200mil a month for a upgraded system
the controlling alliance supplies corp A with a 50 man protection fleet (corp b) for an additional 100mil per day (dt to dt) or 100 man protection fleet for 200mil per day.
So... you want the PvPers to work for you for 2 million a day each? Clean yer shoes, guv'nor! god bless you sweet master, a shiney sixpence! Thankee sir, now we can eat right well on turnips tonight! Only another 67 days doing protection work and I can save up for a shiney new HAC!
i was merely making an example to convey the idea - fees themselves would be determined on the alliance
I can guarantee that no amount of isk you can pay whilst remaining profitable will be enough for a pvper to sit bored and guard your arse for 24 hours
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Asuri Kinnes
Caldari
Adhocracy Incorporated
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Posted - 2009.10.05 14:56:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Asuri Kinnes on 05/10/2009 14:58:24
Edited by: Asuri Kinnes on 05/10/2009 14:57:12
Originally by: Colonel Xaven
Originally by: Asuri Kinnes
Originally by: Colonel Xaven
Edited by: Colonel Xaven on 05/10/2009 13:27:34
Nerf Veldspar. Nerf L4 income. Increase NPC taxes. Problem solved.
Do all that, and you still have the problem of "faceless" alliances. Still no reason to leave a player corp in hi-sec for a player corp in 0.0 - especially when the recruiting isn't there. vOv
Player corps in hisec are not the majority of the crowd in Empire. To make 0.0 more attractive it is obvious that there are 2 ways:
1. make 0.0 more attractive then hisec or
2. make hisec less attractive than 0.0
The current situation is: Why should someone get into lowsec / 0.0 when he can mine and mission enough to pay for his chars with ISK and get rich while doing it?
The space holding alliances are not responsible to get players into 0.0 btw. So recruiting has nothing to do with this topic.
Bolded that part - I thought the point of the game was that players controlled the outcomes. So your saying that space holding alliances have enough to do, so shouldn't be arsed with recruiting? Rather have CCP do it for them?
Its not just isk keeping all those people in hi-sec... Its:
Originally by: Marcus Atntony
I (and probably alot of other indy and non-indy players) dont want CCP to make it so any single/group of blockheads can take buffed barges out mining in 0.0 np. Thats not eve imo. If you cant take the heat, dont go in the fire 0.o.
And:
Originally by: Malcanis
So... you want the PvPers to work for you for 2 million a day each? Clean yer shoes, guv'nor! god bless you sweet master, a shiney sixpence! Thankee sir, now we can eat right well on turnips tonight! Only another 67 days doing protection work and I can save up for a shiney new HAC!
Can't wait to see what happens with Dominion tbqh. Should be interesting to say the least...
Honor is that which you do when no one else is looking. |
Gaborelle
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Posted - 2009.10.05 14:57:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Gaborelle on 05/10/2009 14:58:59
another way to move miners out of high sec is to get rid of 0.8 and above ore belts.... create noob miner agents that give noobs a mining mission with a long time to finish it and that they first warp to an accel gate that takes them to a safe belt to mine. have it so frigates and destroyers and haulers are only allowed to use the accel gates and no mining barges are allowed to use the accel gates and no rats in the noob belts.
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Hiroshima Jita
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Posted - 2009.10.05 14:59:00 -
[41]
1 bil/Month rent is about what we charge.
I value my time at minimum of 20mil isk/hour. 20 mil * 23 hours * 100 = 46 billion isk if you want around the clock system lockdown and defense from a hundred man fleet. Yeah...
The alternative is to have each carebear run a scout alt in 1 of the adjacent systems. 1-2 scout alts required. Then safe up whenever a nuetral comes through. Much cheaper.
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Amanda Mor
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Posted - 2009.10.05 15:01:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Gaborelle
Edited by: Gaborelle on 05/10/2009 14:46:09
Originally by: Malcanis
Edited by: Malcanis on 05/10/2009 14:38:18
Originally by: Gaborelle
Edited by: Gaborelle on 05/10/2009 14:18:06
Edited by: Gaborelle on 05/10/2009 14:17:18
a possible solution to the getting industrials into 0.0 would be the big alliances not only renting out their 0.0 systems to industrial corps but also renting out "protection fleets".
example an indy corp (corp A) rents a system from a controlling alliance for say, 100mil a month for a non upgraded system or 200mil a month for a upgraded system
the controlling alliance supplies corp A with a 50 man protection fleet (corp b) for an additional 100mil per day (dt to dt) or 100 man protection fleet for 200mil per day.
So... you want the PvPers to work for you for 2 million a day each? Clean yer shoes, guv'nor! god bless you sweet master, a shiney sixpence! Thankee sir, now we can eat right well on turnips tonight! Only another 67 days doing protection work and I can save up for a shiney new HAC!
i was merely making an example to convey the idea - fees themselves would be determined on the alliance
The example you showed, however, is off by way more than you think - it's not a matter of just fiddling with the numbers a bit to make it work.
Obviously, no pvp'er is going to rent their services for 2 mil a day, when they can literally make at least 10X that in an hour of ratting, which is (marginally) more exciting than watching another ships mining lasers.
So, you'd have to pay the pilots more on the order of 20mil/hr EACH - even with a 50 man protection fleet that's 1 billion/hr. At what point does it just not become economically viable to pay for protection? I heard that even 0.0 mining is only 10-15mil/hr per pilot - you'd need alot of miners to make a 1 billion isk/hr protection fee worthwhile.
Even a small out of corp protection fleet (5 pvp pilots), is going to cost 500mil for 5 hours of work - you'd need dozens of miners to make it worthwhile, at which point 5 pilots can't protect them all.
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Lifelongnoob
Caldari
Final Conflict UK
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Posted - 2009.10.05 15:03:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Hiroshima Jita
1 bil/Month rent is about what we charge.
I value my time at minimum of 20mil isk/hour. 20 mil * 23 hours * 100 = 46 billion isk if you want around the clock system lockdown and defense from a hundred man fleet. Yeah...
The alternative is to have each carebear run a scout alt in 1 of the adjacent systems. 1-2 scout alts required. Then safe up whenever a nuetral comes through. Much cheaper.
fair enough i guess... we could pay that but then we'd have to charge u 1bil isk for that hac we build u 
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Ranger 1
Amarr
Dynaverse Corporation
Vertigo Coalition
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Posted - 2009.10.05 15:47:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Lifelongnoob
Originally by: Hiroshima Jita
1 bil/Month rent is about what we charge.
I value my time at minimum of 20mil isk/hour. 20 mil * 23 hours * 100 = 46 billion isk if you want around the clock system lockdown and defense from a hundred man fleet. Yeah...
The alternative is to have each carebear run a scout alt in 1 of the adjacent systems. 1-2 scout alts required. Then safe up whenever a nuetral comes through. Much cheaper.
fair enough i guess... we could pay that but then we'd have to charge u 1bil isk for that hac we build u
I think you missed the point...
=====
If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you. |
Anahid Brutus
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.10.05 16:28:00 -
[45]
if you're mining in 0.0 then you're literally an idiot. mine ice in high-sec instead and you'll be making 80% of the money(probably higher after taking hostiles into account) with none of the risk.
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Orthaen
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Posted - 2009.10.05 16:43:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Orthaen on 05/10/2009 16:47:09
Originally by: Gaborelle
Something that would help improve ccp's chances of getting more industrialists living in 0.0 would be to give mining barges a bit of an overall hit point increase and extend their max targetting range to 50km (so their drones can actually be used properly).
currently t2 barges can barely tank 0.0 rats.... they have zero chance against a pvp fit t1 cruiser cos the cruisers can hit the barge from outside the barge's max lock range.
t1 barges really need a second mid slot (to allow for an invunerablity field and shield booster) & a 10% hp/cap increase and add a 3% bonus per level to invunerablity field resists as they die with one volley from a suicide ganker's smartbomb
I like this idea. Not the suicide ganking part, I dont care about that. But t1 barges get torn apart by 0.0 belt rats. You HAVE to mine in a hulk, or combat ship, which seems silly. I dont care if retrievers get ripped apart by player ships, thats fine. It is a bit of a bummer that you can't use t1 barges in nul sec without having someone baby sit you just to kill a handful of rats every now and then. Yes, you can dock up and switch ships and kill the rats yourself, but its annoying. I don't see how it would be game breaking if barges had a larger base range, so they could use their drones to kill the mean rats, and maybe a bit more space on fitting so you can at least try to tank them. DPS differences between belt rats and player ships is huge, so the pirates would still have plenty of opportunity to gank the hapless miners.
Also, laugh at someone saying mining ice is almost as profitable as mining in 0.0....ice is maybe 10 million/hour. Bistot is more then twice that, using very modest m3/min assumptions.
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Anahid Brutus
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.10.05 16:52:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Anahid Brutus on 05/10/2009 16:53:02
Originally by: Orthaen
Also, laugh at someone saying mining ice is almost as profitable as mining in 0.0....ice is maybe 10 million/hour. Bistot is more then twice that, using very modest m3/min assumptions.
Assuming no hostiles(and that those hostiles don't pop your cans), assuming you dont have to pay someone to tank the spawns and assuming you're in a station system.
Edit, and refine rates are usually lower in 0.0 stations.
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Hacra
Minmatar
Quam Singulari
Cult of War
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Posted - 2009.10.05 17:10:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Hacra on 05/10/2009 17:11:01
Sorry if reply of same sort already exists, but i couldn't be arsed to read the wall-o-text-a-rama above.
Anyway, every single 0.0 rat spawn can be tanked by Hulk or Mackinaw easypeasy, it's just matter of skills and finding out the right fit. (and yes you can use two mining upgrades).
But i do agree extending the targeting range of exhumers, the 30 something (or below) kilometres is bit silly.
What comes to chances against T1 cruisers, when you fly your ships right you won't find your self in such scenario ;)
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Alana Mei
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Posted - 2009.10.05 17:28:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Alana Mei on 05/10/2009 17:35:47
Originally by: Anahid Brutus
Edited by: Anahid Brutus on 05/10/2009 16:53:02
Originally by: Orthaen
Also, laugh at someone saying mining ice is almost as profitable as mining in 0.0....ice is maybe 10 million/hour. Bistot is more then twice that, using very modest m3/min assumptions.
Assuming no hostiles(and that those hostiles don't pop your cans), assuming you dont have to pay someone to tank the spawns and assuming you're in a station system.
Edit, and refine rates are usually lower in 0.0 stations.
Nullsec is full of pipes...long chains of systems where there is only one path through...safety if you mine in one of these pipes is generally not that much of an issue with properly setup intel you can get a 3-4 jump warning...next...you set up a pos in said system...ship ore to pos for storage until you can jump or haul it to a station system...since we've already put a pos in said system keep a ratting ship in pos...when rats spawn warp to pos switch ships warp back to belt...kill rats...yes it does take more of an investment than highsec...it is also alot more profitable...
An alternate option is to team up with a ratter...go to said system and have the ratter deal with the spawns while you mine...
Edit: Yes I realize this isn't as good as highsec solo since fueling a pos isn't cheap and can be alot of work, but if you get a corp doing it you can turn a decent profit fairly fast...not to mention the other benefits having a foothold in nullsec would give you...
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Anahid Brutus
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.10.05 17:36:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Alana Mei
Nullsec is full of pipes...long chains of systems where there is only one path through...safety if you mine in one of these pipes is generally not that much of an issue with properly setup intel you can get a 3-4 jump warning...next...you set up a pos in said system...ship ore to pos for storage until you can jump or haul it to a station system...since we've already put a pos in said system keep a ratting ship in pos...when rats spawn warp to pos switch ships warp back to belt...kill rats...yes it does take more of an investment than highsec...it is also alot more profitable...
An alternate option is to team up with a ratter...go to said system and have the ratter deal with the spawns while you mine...
That's some nice theorycraft, but you're wrong. Go to 0.0 and see how many hulks you can find. Chances are that the vast majority* are ratting instead, and this is not a coincidence.
*I was thinking about asking for just a screenshot of a single hulk mining in 0.0, but then i remembered that there are some truly stupid people out there.
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Alana Mei
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Posted - 2009.10.05 18:15:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Anahid Brutus
That's some nice theorycraft, but you're wrong. Go to 0.0 and see how many hulks you can find. Chances are that the vast majority* are ratting instead, and this is not a coincidence.
*I was thinking about asking for just a screenshot of a single hulk mining in 0.0, but then i remembered that there are some truly stupid people out there.
Well obviously you aren't going to *see* them in the belts unless they are idiots that didn't warp out when a neutral entered the system :)
That just proves my point as to how safe it is...
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Colonel Xaven
Decadence.
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.05 18:29:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Asuri Kinnes
Originally by: Colonel Xaven
The space holding alliances are not responsible to get players into 0.0 btw. So recruiting has nothing to do with this topic.
Bolded that part - I thought the point of the game was that players controlled the outcomes. So your saying that space holding alliances have enough to do, so shouldn't be arsed with recruiting? Rather have CCP do it for them?
I guess u miss the point. Noone has formed an alliance and fought endless pos wars for the purpose of getting empire players into 0.0. They did that to get themselves access to 0.0. There is a difference. Recruiting has the purpose to strengthen an alliance and not the altruistic purpose of inviting people to nullsec who want to gain ISK.
-CX |
Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.10.05 18:38:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Alana Mei
Originally by: Anahid Brutus
That's some nice theorycraft, but you're wrong. Go to 0.0 and see how many hulks you can find. Chances are that the vast majority* are ratting instead, and this is not a coincidence.
*I was thinking about asking for just a screenshot of a single hulk mining in 0.0, but then i remembered that there are some truly stupid people out there.
Well obviously you aren't going to *see* them in the belts unless they are idiots that didn't warp out when a neutral entered the system :)
That just proves my point as to how safe it is...
Go easy on the worker bees now. They are limited to visual methods of confirmation to determine if something is actually there or not. The process of extrapolation of information to mentally visualize probable outcomes and scenarios from empirical data and cognative skills is reserved for the leader class of bee that you don't see in any of the various eve-o forum sections.
Quote:
[03:39:05] Emperor Salazar > HOLY **** ITS ZEBA
[03:39:20] Emperor Salazar > NEVER STOP POASTING
Zeba is the BEST! ~Mitnal |
Miraqu
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.10.05 18:41:00 -
[54]
Somehow most of you miss the point about industrialists in 0.0.
Players in 0.0 are for exactly two reasons in 0.0.
1. They contribute to the goal of the Corporation.
2. They contribute to the goal of the Alliance.
If your Indie-corp will produce some caps per month and mine and mine. They can probably do this. But most don't want to contribute. So they want to stay in their little (>20) highsec indu corp, very often don't want to even acknowledge the goals and like to be left alone.
Most 0.0 corps do recruit good industrial players and will probably do this especially after dominion. But no alliance will allow a small bunch of more or less helpless and annoying miners in their corps into their alliance who will leave after the fifth hulk died to a gang after ten players were to lazy to read intel-chat.
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Colonel Xaven
Decadence.
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.05 18:58:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Miraqu
Somehow most of you miss the point about industrialists in 0.0.
Players in 0.0 are for exactly two reasons in 0.0.
1. They contribute to the goal of the Corporation.
2. They contribute to the goal of the Alliance.
If your Indie-corp will produce some caps per month and mine and mine. They can probably do this. But most don't want to contribute. So they want to stay in their little (>20) highsec indu corp, very often don't want to even acknowledge the goals and like to be left alone.
Most 0.0 corps do recruit good industrial players and will probably do this especially after dominion. But no alliance will allow a small bunch of more or less helpless and annoying miners in their corps into their alliance who will leave after the fifth hulk died to a gang after ten players were to lazy to read intel-chat.
That pretty much sums it up.
0.0 is PvP. If you're a carebear and do not participate when it comes to serious internet spaceships blowup business where all hands on deck are needed, you're useless and will sooner or later end up in Empire again mining Veldspar, either by being kicked or by alliance implosion.
-CX |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.10.05 22:07:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Gaborelle
Edited by: Gaborelle on 05/10/2009 14:46:09
Originally by: Malcanis
Edited by: Malcanis on 05/10/2009 14:38:18
Originally by: Gaborelle
Edited by: Gaborelle on 05/10/2009 14:18:06
Edited by: Gaborelle on 05/10/2009 14:17:18
a possible solution to the getting industrials into 0.0 would be the big alliances not only renting out their 0.0 systems to industrial corps but also renting out "protection fleets".
example an indy corp (corp A) rents a system from a controlling alliance for say, 100mil a month for a non upgraded system or 200mil a month for a upgraded system
the controlling alliance supplies corp A with a 50 man protection fleet (corp b) for an additional 100mil per day (dt to dt) or 100 man protection fleet for 200mil per day.
So... you want the PvPers to work for you for 2 million a day each? Clean yer shoes, guv'nor! god bless you sweet master, a shiney sixpence! Thankee sir, now we can eat right well on turnips tonight! Only another 67 days doing protection work and I can save up for a shiney new HAC!
i was merely making an example to convey the idea - fees themselves would be determined on the alliance
I'd up your idea by about 1.5 orders of magnitude. 2 if you want good PvPers to protect you.
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Mire Stoude
The Undesirables
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Posted - 2009.10.05 22:21:00 -
[57]
Speaking about mining drones, they should actually be able to use mwd to get to their target (like any other drone). As it stands, if you want the drones to really add to your mining, you have to be within 5k of the asteroid.
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Ryhss
Caldari
Sarum A Fortiori
Sanctimony of Bellum
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Posted - 2009.10.05 22:29:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Ryhss on 05/10/2009 22:31:06
Edited by: Ryhss on 05/10/2009 22:29:53
Originally by: W3370Pi4
suicide ganking is a game feature deal with it
if your area is dangerous move away
exhumers dont need to tank 0.0 rats your alt does.
I do not want to get a 2nd account. I will not either. Find a differen't solution for players like me.
Originally by: Quel Thalas
Originally by: En Passant
Smart Bombs aren't allowed in empire are they? Suicide ganks happen with traditional weaponry.
wrong I smart bomb in empire all the time; Its the only way to Suicide gank in empire to be frank
Who's Frank?
This 5 minutes between posts crap needs to stop, NOW.
I think not, therefore I am not. |
Quel Thalas
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Posted - 2009.10.05 22:30:00 -
[59]
Originally by: En Passant
Smart Bombs aren't allowed in empire are they? Suicide ganks happen with traditional weaponry.
wrong I smart bomb in empire all the time; Its the only way to Suicide gank in empire to be frank
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Discrodia
Gallente
Unknown-Entity
Maru Ka'ge
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Posted - 2009.10.05 22:37:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Gaborelle
currently t2 barges can barely tank 0.0 rats.... they have zero chance against a pvp fit t1 cruiser cos the cruisers can hit the barge from outside the barge's max lock range.
That's a lie and we all know it.
Originally by: Gaborelle
there needs to be a max limit of 2 smartbombs per ship also to reduce suicide ganks or deny u an insurance payout if concord has killed u - in a realistic market insurance companies would not payout insurance for criminal gain.
This proposal is just crap.
In general please be quiet.
________________________________________________
HELP! CCP HAS NERFED MY SIG! ALSO CAPLOCKS IS FUN!
While we're at it I need to bake muffins
^_^ |
Slade Trillgon
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2009.10.05 22:42:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Blane Xero
Originally by: En Passant
Smart Bombs aren't allowed in empire are they? Suicide ganks happen with traditional weaponry.
Smartbombs are, so long as you are not within 5km of a station or gate.
Or a beacon, or sign, or a Concord ship
Slade
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
Please go sit in the corner, and dont forget to don the shame-on-you-hat!
=v= |
Gaborelle
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Posted - 2009.10.05 23:39:00 -
[62]
i guess ccp if u are reading this thread u have your answer about dominion populating 0.0 ... this upcoming patch will not change 0.0 very much in terms of population....
i can see it remaining as the same,
systems with stations will have 30 to 50 people average.
those systems without stations will have 1 to 2 average with the usual number of roaming fleets passing through.
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