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Populating 0.0 after dominion

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Gaborelle	Posted - 2009.10.05 11:40:00 - [1] Something that would help improve ccp's chances of getting more industrialists living in 0.0 would be to give mining barges a bit of an overall hit point increase and extend their max targetting range to 50km (so their drones can actually be used properly). currently t2 barges can barely tank 0.0 rats.... they have zero chance against a pvp fit t1 cruiser cos the cruisers can hit the barge from outside the barge's max lock range. t1 barges really need a second mid slot (to allow for an invunerablity field and shield booster) & a 10% hp/cap increase and add a 3% bonus per level to invunerablity field resists as they die with one volley from a suicide ganker's smartbomb there needs to be a max limit of 2 smartbombs per ship also to reduce suicide ganks or deny u an insurance payout if concord has killed u - in a realistic market insurance companies would not payout insurance for criminal gain
Niccolado Starwalker Shadow Templars	Posted - 2009.10.05 11:44:00 - [2] Originally by: Gaborelle Something that would help improve ccp's chances of getting more industrialists living in 0.0 would be to give mining barges a bit of an overall hit point increase and extend their max targetting range to 50km (so their drones can actually be used properly). currently t2 barges can barely tank 0.0 rats.... they have zero chance against a pvp fit t1 cruiser cos the cruisers can hit the barge from outside the barge's max lock range. t1 barges really need a second mid slot (to allow for an invunerablity field and shield booster) & a 10% hp/cap increase and add a 3% bonus per level to invunerablity field resists as they die with one volley from a suicide ganker's smartbomb there needs to be a max limit of 2 smartbombs per ship also to reduce suicide ganks or deny u an insurance payout if concord has killed u - in a realistic market insurance companies would not payout insurance for criminal gain That is not neccesary really. As soon the new system hit in, and the alliances cant control huge areas of regions anymore, they will band more togethet to protect what they have. Ofcource you wont get better protection against roving pirates, but in an alliance you will now have way better protection because the attacks will be less and less done on the whim. The future attacks will be more planned. That mean you will have better protection within the alliance and corporations out there, but on your own, you will be just as much as an sitting duck as you are today.. Originally by: Dianabolic Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.10.05 11:44:00 - [3] So your theory is that making hi-sec even safer will get people into 0.0?
Gaborelle	Posted - 2009.10.05 11:46:00 - [4] it still wont get miners out in 0.0 unless barges get a buff.
En Passant	Posted - 2009.10.05 11:48:00 - [5] Smart Bombs aren't allowed in empire are they? Suicide ganks happen with traditional weaponry.
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.10.05 11:51:00 - [6] Originally by: En Passant Smart Bombs aren't allowed in empire are they? Suicide ganks happen with traditional weaponry. Smartbombs are, so long as you are not within 5km of a station or gate. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008 Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm:
W3370Pi4 Caldari	Posted - 2009.10.05 11:52:00 - [7] suicide ganking is a game feature deal with it if your area is dangerous move away exhumers dont need to tank 0.0 rats your alt does. _______ Join The"Legit Trading" channel
RedLion Caldari State Constructions	Posted - 2009.10.05 11:53:00 - [8] I want a super indestructible mining deathstar, and I am serious, i really want one! I think that mining ships are too weak. CCP should learn from Blizzard, (allthough not overdo it like Blizzard), where they buffed the healers, (too much), but a little buff to miners would be nice. For example could blizzard make it so that increased turret slots but not the possibility to have more strip miners. They could also increase mid slots. Low slots however would improve my afk mining capability, and I don't think they will increase no. of low slots. I never mined in 0.0, and I will most likely never do it in the future, if nothing changes. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - The Gallenteans must be destroyed - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Niccolado Starwalker Shadow Templars	Posted - 2009.10.05 11:55:00 - [9] Originally by: Gaborelle Edited by: Gaborelle on 05/10/2009 11:49:27 it still wont get miners out in 0.0 unless barges get a buff. making suicide gankers get no insurance is more of a measure to help new players...to be honest but as newer industrialist train up their many many time consuming & high cost skills in preparation for 0.0 life the suicide ganker get no insurence with also help. First no matter how much you strengthen a barge with armour you will always be a sitting duck. its a mining vessel, not a combat ship. Therefore you need to look for external protection, not protection on your ship. The external protection however will be increased since it wont be as easy conquering new systems and regions anymore, thus providing increased overall protection! THAT IS THE PROTECTION YOU ARE LOOKING FOR! As a loner however, you will be as much as an sitting duck in deep space as you are today. No, the most important thing in my opinion is: can CCP make the alliancces accept full time mission- and industrialists among them? Because its mostly these who are in empire space. What CCP have to find a way is to how both parties - the corp/alliance and the player can find use for each other. Not dead weight.. Originally by: Dianabolic Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL
Flibertygibbet	Posted - 2009.10.05 11:59:00 - [10] the only way to make more people travel to 0.0 is to add more entrances to 0.0 a lot more.
Rordan D'Kherr Amarr	Posted - 2009.10.05 12:03:00 - [11] Originally by: Gaborelle Something that would help improve ccp's chances of getting more industrialists living in 0.0 would be to give mining barges a bit of an overall hit point increase and extend their max targetting range to 50km (so their drones can actually be used properly). currently t2 barges can barely tank 0.0 rats.... they have zero chance against a pvp fit t1 cruiser cos the cruisers can hit the barge from outside the barge's max lock range. t1 barges really need a second mid slot (to allow for an invunerablity field and shield booster) & a 10% hp/cap increase and add a 3% bonus per level to invunerablity field resists as they die with one volley from a suicide ganker's smartbomb there needs to be a max limit of 2 smartbombs per ship also to reduce suicide ganks or deny u an insurance payout if concord has killed u - in a realistic market insurance companies would not payout insurance for criminal gain Confirming carebear ships need urgent improvements.
Gaborelle	Posted - 2009.10.05 12:05:00 - [12] Originally by: RedLion I never mined in 0.0, and I will most likely never do it in the future, if nothing changes. sadly most miners think this way cos barges are just too weak. and yes i know miners are supposed to have protection but even with protection all it takes is a cloaker to get a warp in on a barge and in comes a ganker to instapop the barge before the support gets a chance to respond simply cos barges are way to weak. t1 barges are weaker than most t1 frigates despite being cruiser size.
Coco The New Era Huzzah Federation	Posted - 2009.10.05 12:20:00 - [13] The mining ships as they are, are ok. However it is true that vs. a solo pvp ship and even more though against roaming gangs, the miner stands null chance. Currently the only way to survive is to stay aligned to a safespot / POS / station and warp off as soon as there is a neutral in local. Now what I always have thought of being a nice idea for 0.0 mining is the following. Introduce somekind of a bubble which protects the miner. You can only enter the bubble with the correct password and the bubble acts like a POS shield. With balanced hit points it would give the miner enough time to shout out for help via intel channel for alliance members or friends to come and aid him and fight off the people who disrubted his mining business. Some features of the bubble to make it work: The bubble itself should only be able to be launched from a mining ship, in order to prevent the abuse of this feature for normal gang warefare. Everything within the bubble will not be able to warp off. The anchor skill is needed to anchor it close to an asteroid. Only people with the password can enter the area of the bubble. Hitpoints of the bubble should allow enough time for close by friends to arrive (maybe travel time of 3 systems After leaving the bubble there is a 5 sec recalibration time for the warp drive. (Gives time to get a point on the mining ship in case of an insta warp attempt, burn out of the bubble being aligned and hit warp once out of the bubble) Thats just my thought when I read about how weak and vulnurable miners are especially in 0.0. I dont think that buffing the mining ships will be a solution to the problem. The bubble on the other hand would give a protection for a certain amount of time, if no friends show up well then you will still die, but at least you have a chance to call for help.
JitaPriceChecker2	Posted - 2009.10.05 12:24:00 - [14] What a fail topic. Only thing that is broken is an insurance from concorded ships.
Niccolado Starwalker Shadow Templars	Posted - 2009.10.05 12:24:00 - [15] personally I think it would have solved everything if CCP could find a way to have the alliances start recruiting full time industrialists, miners, missioners and casuals among them. They might not turn PvPers for a while, but in time they might try it out. Thats how I got into PvP in the first place. Originally by: Dianabolic Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL
Dodgy Past Amarr Lollipops for Rancors	Posted - 2009.10.05 12:35:00 - [16] Originally by: Gaborelle Originally by: RedLion I never mined in 0.0, and I will most likely never do it in the future, if nothing changes. sadly most miners think this way cos barges are just too weak. and yes i know miners are supposed to have protection but even with protection all it takes is a cloaker to get a warp in on a barge and in comes a ganker to instapop the barge before the support gets a chance to respond simply cos barges are way to weak. t1 barges are weaker than most t1 frigates despite being cruiser size. If you want to play solo then yeah, 0.0 is never going to be for you. You want a closed system ( 1 gate ) or 2 gates maximum. Bubble both gates and have guards there. This way you'll be able to prevent most interlopers even entering the system and if they bring overwhelming force you'll have plenty of warning to warp to a deep safe and log off. Of course it does mean paying your guards a decent rate..... I suggest a sliding scale that decreases with the quantity of kills they get while guarding you ;)
En Passant	Posted - 2009.10.05 12:40:00 - [17] Buffing mining barges will not give the miners a pair of gonads. Christ if they're whining about getting suicide ganked in empire, what would they say when they got ganked without the other guy dying? "0.0 pvp is too harsh, we need asteroid belts to have concord drones that defend us"?
Shootmenot dammit	Posted - 2009.10.05 12:50:00 - [18] Edited by: Shootmenot dammit on 05/10/2009 12:50:53 Edited by: Shootmenot dammit on 05/10/2009 12:50:37 Originally by: Flibertygibbet the only way to make more people travel to 0.0 is to add more entrances to 0.0 a lot more. This man speaks the truth. Bottlenecks, pipes and bubbles. A pain to get in, a pain to bring supplies, the need for infrastructure and logistics drives casual players away, and many just settle for High sec missioning and mining while enjoying the space opera setup. Most people cannot be bothered, TBH. And still, what many propose (making High sec less attractive)would work worse than, simply, making 0.0 shine more. To achieve this, anything that promotes casual (small, rising, etc) acts getting a piece of the 0.0 action is really welcome.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.10.05 12:54:00 - [19] Originally by: Flibertygibbet the only way to make more people travel to 0.0 is to add more entrances to 0.0 a lot more. Pro-TipÖ: Getting into 0.0 is pretty easy now. The regional gates are way too big to bubble effeciently now. IIRC you need something like 18 large bobblues to cover an inter-regional. Also, some entry points are less populated than others... Make the first trip in a fast T1 frigate like a Slasher, fit a MWD, speed mods and a prototype cloak. Scout out your route and make bookmarks and safespots.
Dirk Mortice	Posted - 2009.10.05 12:55:00 - [20] Hi guys, I think that 0.0 mining really needs a buff to make it competitive in the current EVE world. I think the best way to do this would be to nerf suicide ganking. Please make my miner invulnerable in high sec, and I think this will finally get people moving to 0.0 Ty
Rordan D'Kherr Amarr	Posted - 2009.10.05 13:00:00 - [21] Originally by: Dirk Mortice Hi guys, I think that 0.0 mining really needs a buff to make it competitive in the current EVE world. I think the best way to do this would be to nerf suicide ganking. Please make my miner invulnerable in high sec, and I think this will finally get people moving to 0.0 Ty Pretty much this.
Shootmenot dammit	Posted - 2009.10.05 13:10:00 - [22] Edited by: Shootmenot dammit on 05/10/2009 13:10:38 Honestly, to populate 0.0 you DO need to make High sec SAFER. We carebears aint' going to 0.0 no matter what. If Hulk mining in 0.8 nets us 2 millions per hour, that's what I'll make. You 0.0 dwellers want to attract people that likes shooting others down. By making Barges immune to suicide, all those that shoot barges and call themselves PvPers (LOL) will HAVE to move to 0.0 in order to keep shooting for a profit/fun. It's just another way of solving the problem. If you make barges less sturdy, there will be MORE gankers able to go after them, meaning more gankers WILL go after them, which in turns means that less combat-oriented pilots will bother to come to 0.0 to find targets.
Doddy The Executives IT Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.05 13:17:00 - [23] Originally by: Gaborelle Something that would help improve ccp's chances of getting more industrialists living in 0.0 would be to give mining barges a bit of an overall hit point increase and extend their max targetting range to 50km (so their drones can actually be used properly). currently t2 barges can barely tank 0.0 rats.... they have zero chance against a pvp fit t1 cruiser cos the cruisers can hit the barge from outside the barge's max lock range. The whole point of having a corp or alliance is that you have actual combat ships which defend your industrial ships. Its really not that complicated. If you want a longer targeting range fit a sig amp. re insurance - a realistic police force doesn't materialise out of thin air and assassinate you having instantly incapacitated your supposedly state of the art military vessel without asking questions either - its a game ffs.
Doddy The Executives IT Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.05 13:20:00 - [24] Quote: If you make barges less sturdy, there will be MORE gankers able to go after them, meaning more gankers WILL go after them, which in turns means that less combat-oriented pilots will bother to come to 0.0 to find targets. You think hi sec miner gankers are combat orientated ???
Colonel Xaven Decadence. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.05 13:26:00 - [25] Nerf Veldspar. Increase NPC taxes. Problem solved. -CX
Gaborelle	Posted - 2009.10.05 13:27:00 - [26] i have mined in 0.0 before and will probably go back out again if things improve after dominion but it is not always possible to get enough of a support fleet to watch industrials cos 1. pvp'er hate babysitting industrials and are extremely difficult to get to x up in fleet in the first place. 2. pvp'ers that do x up get bored quickly and often decide to either log or roam thus leaving the industrials vunerable. 3. t3 ships are immune to bubbles & fly cloaked thus meaning industrials dont always time to warp out.
Doddy The Executives IT Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.05 13:29:00 - [27] Originally by: Gaborelle Originally by: RedLion I never mined in 0.0, and I will most likely never do it in the future, if nothing changes. sadly most miners think this way cos barges are just too weak. and yes i know miners are supposed to have protection but even with protection all it takes is a cloaker to get a warp in on a barge and in comes a ganker to instapop the barge before the support gets a chance to respond simply cos barges are way to weak. t1 barges are weaker than most t1 frigates despite being cruiser size. You are far more likely to lose a hulk in hi sec where no one cares than in safe alliance held 0.0 space where anyone coming to kill you has to get past your pvp pilots. A retreiver or covetors drones will kill most t1 frigates btw, i killed a pirate wolf with a covetor once which was fun. Multiple barges means multiple flights of drones, and few 0.0 mining ops run without a tanking ship which is generally combat capable so you should never be defenceless even against a loan cloaker. Even if you do lose a t1 barge once a month its insurable so the loss is minimal, far less then the profit increase you can get from mining ark rather than trit for a few hours.
Dodgy Past Amarr Lollipops for Rancors	Posted - 2009.10.05 13:36:00 - [28] Originally by: Gaborelle 3. t3 ships are immune to bubbles & fly cloaked thus meaning industrials dont always time to warp out. Maybe try watching local and mining aligned to a safe spot. Fit a cloak to your orca and make sure it isn't close to the warp in point. The delay in targeting from decloaking is more than enough time for an Orca to cloak and start moving, then your guards can come in and get a shiny T3 kill. I get the feeling that you don't value your guards enough or pay them enough. If they can make more isk guarding you than ratting I'd suspect you'd get a fair bit of support.
Asuri Kinnes Caldari Adhocracy Incorporated	Posted - 2009.10.05 13:43:00 - [29] Edited by: Asuri Kinnes on 05/10/2009 13:45:27 Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Flibertygibbet the only way to make more people travel to 0.0 is to add more entrances to 0.0 a lot more. Pro-TipÖ: Getting into 0.0 is pretty easy now. The regional gates are way too big to bubble effeciently now. IIRC you need something like 18 large bobblues to cover an inter-regional. Also, some entry points are less populated than others... Make the first trip in a fast T1 frigate like a Slasher, fit a MWD, speed mods and a prototype cloak. Scout out your route and make bookmarks and safespots. Remind me why anyone bothers? You think its going to make it any easier to get people into 0.0 when it ends up beeing goonswarm corp a, b, c, d, Morsus Mihi corp a, b, c, d, Razor corp a, b, c, d...? 0.0 Corps & Alliances aren't doing a good enough job of recruiting. Its only going to get worse, but I wish you luck. Originally by: Colonel Xaven Edited by: Colonel Xaven on 05/10/2009 13:27:34 Nerf Veldspar. Nerf L4 income. Increase NPC taxes. Problem solved. Do all that, and you still have the problem of "faceless" alliances. Still no reason to leave a player corp in hi-sec for a player corp in 0.0 - especially when the recruiting isn't there. vOv Honor is that which you do when no one else is looking.
Colonel Xaven Decadence. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.05 13:53:00 - [30] Originally by: Asuri Kinnes Originally by: Colonel Xaven Edited by: Colonel Xaven on 05/10/2009 13:27:34 Nerf Veldspar. Nerf L4 income. Increase NPC taxes. Problem solved. Do all that, and you still have the problem of "faceless" alliances. Still no reason to leave a player corp in hi-sec for a player corp in 0.0 - especially when the recruiting isn't there. vOv Player corps in hisec are not the majority of the crowd in Empire. To make 0.0 more attractive it is obvious that there are 2 ways: 1. make 0.0 more attractive then hisec or 2. make hisec less attractive than 0.0 The current situation is: Why should someone get into lowsec / 0.0 when he can mine and mission enough to pay for his chars with ISK and get rich while doing it? The space holding alliances are not responsible to get players into 0.0 btw. So recruiting has nothing to do with this topic. -CX

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