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Suboran
Gallente
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.07 20:14:00 -
[31]
most of 0.0 space is rubbish sec status, you can make more money in empire so it isnt needed.
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xxxak
Caldari
No Limit Productions
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.10.07 20:16:00 -
[32]
0.0 Isn't really that "empty," it's just mostly controlled by a few big alliances who kill anyone who even sits foot in their space.
It is as empty and as full as they want it to be.
Check out Providence. They are one of the few 0.0 land holders who allow randoms to enter without dying instantly.
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Enyo Ousia
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Posted - 2009.10.07 21:00:00 -
[33]
Being in a 0.0 aliance you are just another cog in the machine. Empire low or high sec. gives you the chance to be an individual. Wheather you take that chance or not is on you!
Less than my original message! **** the 5 minute rule!
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Mire Stoude
The Undesirables
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Posted - 2009.10.07 21:20:00 -
[34]
Bubbles. And the fact a person needs to have nearly total control over 2-3 systems to make the same isk in a level 4 missions.
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Ashina Sito
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.10.07 21:32:00 -
[35]
 Originally by: Cors
As to WHY 0.0 is so empty, it's because noone wants to live out of a POS.
And Outposts are so few and far between.
This is the issue.
POS do not have med stations. If your podded your back somewhere out there XX number of jumps away from your base. Poor refine rates compound the ability to do anything ineffectively. Manufacturing can be limited. In addition your BPO's would be under threat if your attacked so you add an additional layer of logistics, BPC making and hauling. (not a huge endeavor but it is there.)
Add a clone bay to POS, give better refines at a POS, make it cheaper/easier to set up an outpost.
Dominion may help with the other problem. People say so much 0.0 is worthless, it is not. It is that there is better space controlled by their alliance so one one bothers to use the lower quality stuff. Other people would use it but they can not do to the far reaching abilities of the current alliances.
A small corp tries to set things up, but can't because of the lack of clone bays and the need to live out of a POS. The local AFK sov holders come and knock down the POS because it is in their space... in which no one from their alliance has jumped into since the last POS refueling too keep sov up.
Renting does not work. You get access to nothing good in the area, are forced to cart your ore x jumps to the nearest station to refine so it can be taxed in addition to your rent. You have to defend yourself vs threats with no help from your landlords and drop what your doing to help defend the space if your landlords sov gets attacked. These must be done to make the renter corps worth the exposure to meta gaming alt spys that having renters gets you.
All of these reasons are why you will see that 0.0 space with many stations (that have refining, manufacturing and clone stations) have a lot of pilots as well as more PvP then regions with little to no stations.
Dominion with it's effort to increase active pilot density in systems and decrease blanket sovereignty holding can work, if it combines it with an increase what I call the Genesis systems/constellations. These are systems in NPC 0.0 that have refining, manufacturing and clone bays so that a corp of young inexperienced pilots can make a stab at flying in 0.0. The regions are too poor for alliances to want to hold but can hold riches for those young players. After making a foothold they then can choose to try to expand into sovernty space or take the easier route and join up with an existing alliance.
Syndicate, Stain and to a degree Curse fit the need of Genesis regions but, others like The Great Wetland's and Venal are useless. They have 2 or 3 systems that have stations and it makes it nearly imposable to be utilized as "starter" 0.0. More stations in these regions gives more opportunities for more players to use 0.0. As their numbers grow and expand they can fill the gaps that hopefully will develop with the changes coming in Dominion.
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IMASCATMAN
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Posted - 2009.10.07 21:54:00 -
[36]
Originally by: xxxak
0.0 Isn't really that "empty," it's just mostly controlled by a few big alliances who kill anyone who even sits foot in their space.
It is as empty and as full as they want it to be.
Check out Providence. They are one of the few 0.0 land holders who allow randoms to enter without dying instantly.
This tbh, within 30 minutes of ratting in null sec the local alliance jump in 30 strong. What are small groups (who aren't affiliated with an alliance) supposed to do? Even if an evenly matched gang jump in and engage the call will have gone over alliance chat and help is obviously on the way. That's why I use wormholes to get my share of isk making and pvp.
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Liz Laser
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.10.07 22:21:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Liz Laser on 07/10/2009 22:21:47
Nullsec can't be afk'd.
I used to mine in empire while I did housework, so I "played" 14 hours on a weekend, though I touched my mouse and keyboard only 1/100th of that time.
Once I moved to nullsec, I simply couldn't do that. The nullsec experience is incredibly immersive and quite rewarding, but because it requires far more attention (or far more coordination with others), a 14 hour day in Eve means I've completely neglected my home and family for the day.
You basically see "fewer" people in nullsec, but they are far more likely to actually BE THERE than the autopiloting and mostly afk ships you see in highsec.
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Mr Azrael
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Posted - 2009.10.07 22:28:00 -
[38]
access.... that's it
one guy already said it chokepoints/blobs and big naptrains.
The far and deep 0.0 systems will never be heavily populated and no dominion is gonna fix that. If you can't reach it easily you'll never be able to 'feed' your people and a large group will just 'starve'.
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Moriel Damodred
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2009.10.08 05:12:00 -
[39]
From the perspective of someone who earlier was just trying to sell things to nullsec-livers earlier, nullsec is empty because the people who live in nullsec dont want anyone else there.
CCP wants more people in nullsec, the people in nullsec want noone besides them there. Hopefully dominion changes this some, but until the barriers to entry are lessened noone will go.
As an independant flyer (for the moment), i'd love to chill out and bounce around between null and highsec, shoot people sometimes, and notshoot people other times. However at the moment its not feasible because i cant operate in any capacity in nullsec at all.
Its kind of a inherant problem in any system where you can hold territory. You're going to hold as much as you can, and prevent others from gaining more. It doesn't promote taking anyone elses space, nor does it promote new growth, as once the pot is filled w/ people, theres no real way to maneuver around spaces to be able to attack.
Even if i wanted to make runs to hold my own system in deep nullsec, i have no good way of prospering unless there, since i need to run through everyone elses space between here and a market.
Maybe some re-writing of the geography such that there were more ways in and out of nullsec would help. If i was world-designing, i'd have made empire space the outer shell, nullsec the middle and NPC nullsec the core.
This post rambles a lot, but i think i made some good points a few times.
Everyone else had a sig and i felt lonly :( |
Souvera Corvus
SPORADIC MOVEMENT
Cult of War
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Posted - 2009.10.08 05:22:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Laviski
Low sec is for the weak who can't hack 0.0.
Ridiculous statement.
You have to think about what you're doing far more in low-sec and it presents some wholly different challenges.
As to why a lot of 0.0 is empty, its because the vast majority of it isn't really worth much and there's better places to spend your time.
Its no more complicated than that, although Dominion will change everything.
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Nooma K'Larr
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.10.08 05:54:00 -
[41]
What a stupid question.
Take a tour through 0.0 and report back to us.
...if you make it back that is.
___________________________________________________
Idea: Train 3 alts at the same time solution. |
Asuri Kinnes
Caldari
Adhocracy Incorporated
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Posted - 2009.10.08 07:45:00 -
[42]
0.0 is exactly as 0.0 Alliances want it to be.
Honor is that which you do when no one else is looking. |
robbyx
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Posted - 2009.10.08 08:10:00 -
[43]
Edited by: robbyx on 08/10/2009 08:12:03
although Dominion will change everything ?
Ive got some bad news for you buddy...
It wont change sod all....say a small alliance thinks they can finally grab some SOV...they take one system that used to belong to a bigger alliance....where do you think that bigger alliance is going to go for a fight ?
Dominion will change nothing except to create even bigger NAP's and to give the already big and powerful alliances more small alliances to crush...until the smaller alliances figure out its just not worth it, and vast expanses of space can go back to being useless.
Dont believe me ?...when Dominion hits, take your small alliance and go to Querious, scalding pass, fountain etc...see how long you last.
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Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari
Sane Industries Inc.
Novus Auctorita
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Posted - 2009.10.08 10:21:00 -
[44]
Originally by: robbyx
It wont change sod all....say a small alliance thinks they can finally grab some SOV...they take one system that used to belong to a bigger alliance....where do you think that bigger alliance is going to go for a fight ?
Dominion: The Whack-a-Mole expansion.
Don't believe me? Once Dominion hits take your large alliance and try to whack those 20 small alliances that sprung up around your former territory. You need to make the sov vulnerable, then spend 24 hours guarding the gate disruptors.
Repeat for each and every one of those alliances. There's limits to how many you can do in parallel else even a small gang will come and disrupt the timer. Next week you need to return to the first system again, as it was recaptured by people who actually use the systems. Seems ok, until you realize that you never even got around to cleaning out half the original alliances.
Rinse and repeat for a few weeks and you're going to stop wasting time trying to kick every single one out.
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ServantOfMask
Minmatar
Eye Bee Em
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Posted - 2009.10.08 10:43:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab
Don't believe me? Once Dominion hits take your large alliance and try to whack those 20 small alliances that sprung up around your former territory. You need to make the sov vulnerable, then spend 24 hours guarding the gate disruptors.
no they won't... one trip to smash any pos's that are up, contest sov and destroy what can be popped. come back in 1d 17hrs to kill off the RF'ed pos with all their stuff in it. go farm the other 19 new victims, by the time you are through the first one will have jumped more stuff out or left.
the most stubborn will stay a bit longer than most noob 0.0 alliances but they will simply become constant targets for roams and camps... see how long they have fun perma camped.
it'll be great for the "old alliances" who now only have a handful of jumps for victims and corps like Allstar1 and GK inc. who specialize in killing renters.
"Misina Arlath
GIRL = Guy In Real Life
MMORPG = Many Men Online Role Playing Girls." |
Schayol Sunkeeper
Imperial Crusade Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.10.08 10:54:00 -
[46]
the day local gets removed is the day i permanently settle to nullsec
also i think there is not a single 0.0 alliance that understood the "sandbox" part of the game. basically if you enter someones territory, and don't happen to be +10 blue, you're dead, and sometimes even if blue too.
i don't like this shoot on sight mentality. i always imagined how 0.0 is not "lawless" but you can make your own laws here. your own empire, with player police, player navy and a healthy amount of market trade going on. if that would be the case, you'd have more players almost instantly. imagine you pay like 20% global tax on everything and the territory owners protect you if you live in their space, if you get attacked by pirates for example, they'd come and help you
but as it stands, most alliances are not interested in people living in their systems
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations
Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2009.10.08 10:55:00 -
[47]
Originally by: ServantOfMask
no they won't... one trip to smash any pos's that are up, contest sov and destroy what can be popped. come back in 1d 17hrs to kill off the RF'ed pos with all their stuff in it. go farm the other 19 new victims, by the time you are through the first one will have jumped more stuff out or left.
Have you looked into how the new sov system works?
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
ServantOfMask
Minmatar
Eye Bee Em
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Posted - 2009.10.08 11:01:00 -
[48]
extensively... it wont change a damn thing for newcomers. but the sov maps will look less colorful. a small ninja corp might prosper until they show up on the map ... or pay off/NAP their neighbors.
"Misina Arlath
GIRL = Guy In Real Life
MMORPG = Many Men Online Role Playing Girls." |
Zartanic
Red Federation
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Posted - 2009.10.08 11:08:00 -
[49]
Its empty because there is no reason to go there unless your an alliance. Anyway you can happily PVP in hi sec and avoid the blobs and other lame mechanics that makes nul sec so exciting.
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yunger
Big Guns Inc.
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.08 11:14:00 -
[50]
I doubt the new mechanics will allow for small alliances to live independently out in 0,0 space. as things stand sov is only a "here be dragons" marker with the new system 0,0 alliances will probably claim less sov but they sure as hell won't allow neutral alliances to compromise their space. If you aren't blue you are hostile(whatever you might claim) and might start trouble, And you won't get to be blue if you don't contribute in some meaningful way.
long-term there will probably be lots of more space for pets. but if you think you can start a merry band of 20 carbears and claim some space you are a idiot.
People have some trouble seeing how things work now and how things will continue to work.
to live in 0,0 space you need to follow this chain.
1, be the big boys *****, or even worse be the ***** of a older more developed *****.
2, be a good *****, make sure to contribute lots to the cause without taking in to many members. Go on to be a lesser member in a coalition. Might not be for the same alliance that you were the ***** for, be prepared to move around a lot.
3, be a good lesser part of a coalition, get some moon gold as reward. Move on to become a important part of a coalition.
4, be part of invasion to the other end of eve. Drag some smaller alliances along and start your own coalition.
If your alliance is created by lots of big corps with 0,0 experience you might be able to skip step 1,
if your alliance is a bunch empire dwellers, with no 0,0 experience. Bring lub and prepare to bend over every time you are asked to for a while.
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NightCrawler 85
Phoibe Enterprises
SOLAR WING
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Posted - 2009.10.08 11:14:00 -
[51]
There is many things that "decides" if 0.0 is well populated or not.
Think back about mayby..a half year to a year and you would find more people in 0.0.The reason for that is simple...The New Eden war or whatever name people decided to go with.You had major fleet battles,pipes were camped to avoid "hostiles" getting trough and scout them out,you could not go a day without reading some new combat report on CAOD.All this made 0.0 space very..lucrative for all the people that wanted to exsperiense this and be a part of something that would determinate how the eve politics would end.And ofc for those people that just want pew pew ;)
If you look at the current state you will see that the majorety of the big alliances are NAP or allied.No drama on the forums,no huge battle reports or new videos that just make you sit and wish that YOU were a part of it.
This will change several things...One of them is that the classic pvp player WILL get bored.Im sure there are plenty of bigger alliances that have started to get war deced by more and more solo corperations,and obvius alt alliances/corperations.
But this also brings some good things,that only benefits smaller corperations/alliances/carebears. When things are this calm the alliances has no need to abuse the space they own fully,which means that renters,or "pets" become much more lucrative.
But ofc since the rents tend to be high,and many alliances will try to rip you off,combined with logistics and so on,it simply is not worth it for many corperations since they have other options like WH space which is free and easyer maintained.
But there is also truth in people wont bother to take and maintain the less valuable space.The politics involved and the cheer force needed to fight off your ritch neighbors leaves this as a close to impossible task unless you can afford to buy/sell a LOT of GTC's to provide your alliance with enough ISK for caps and POS's.Few will bother to go trough that trouble.
Dont worry.After the patch you will see a coupple of weeks were everyone tryes to fight everyone,new alliances trying to get a piece of the cake,and plenty if fights.It will be a calm coupple of weeks for empire huggers,but 0.0 residents will have a lot on their hands :)
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steveid
Helljumpers
Double Dietsch Rudders
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Posted - 2009.10.08 11:47:00 -
[52]
0.0 is empty because industry has moved out of 0.0. There are no real industrial alliances any more and alliances tend to be 100% pvp based whereas previously this was 60 - 80%. Part of this is alts, part jewgold and part the farce mining has become.
Basically there is no point being in a system unless your ratting and then that will support only 1 person per system.
If Dominion can change this then great.
If you read this then you have to lick my balls. |
Bunzan Cardinal
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2009.10.08 12:21:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Bunzan Cardinal on 08/10/2009 12:21:02
Originally by: Aisley Tyrion
Originally by: Cors
And Outposts are so few and far between.
Unless it's Providence, or Delve nowadays.
and you notice how populated providence is? TBH i think that is one of the major problems, lack of outposts. I bet if GS opened their stations for people to dock(not saying they should), it would be much more populated to. There's no reason for someone to go out to 0.0 if they cant have a place to dock.
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Ebrey mark2
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Posted - 2009.10.08 15:04:00 -
[54]
Low sec can be pretty quiet, but now and then it's great fun. Being a pirate in low sec is a challange many of us enjoy, you can be attacked anywhere, but you can't attack non-criminals yourself. (Well, not everywhere, or in any ship...)
A pirates life in low sec makes you think, gather intel, and you get to fight anyone YOU want. A pirates life is living on the edge:)
It's not better or worse compared to high sec or 0.0, it's just one of many aspects of Eve.
Bottom line: If you enjoy running mission in high sec, do that. If you want to be a criminal in low sec, do that. If you want to be in a great alliance in 0.0, do that. After all, you're the one paying for your subscription.
Best regards, Ebrey Mark2 (The Tuskers)
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Josh Silver
Amarr
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.10.08 15:04:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Josh Silver on 08/10/2009 15:04:46
Originally by: Bunzan Cardinal
Edited by: Bunzan Cardinal on 08/10/2009 12:21:02
Originally by: Aisley Tyrion
Originally by: Cors
And Outposts are so few and far between.
Unless it's Providence, or Delve nowadays.
and you notice how populated providence is? TBH i think that is one of the major problems, lack of outposts. I bet if GS opened their stations for people to dock(not saying they should), it would be much more populated to. There's no reason for someone to go out to 0.0 if they cant have a place to dock.
You can live very well out of NPC stations in Delve. In fact their market is often better than the goon stations'
Also the only ones that would come (besides enemy spies etc) would be neutrals trying to rat and plex, which is the last thing we need. The non-****ty ratting systems are already overcrowded, and good luck finding a fresh plex.
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Red Thunder
tr0pa de elite
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.10.08 15:34:00 -
[56]
because most of 0.0 just sucks. The only good regions are delve, stain, venal, curse tbh. Lots of good rats and npc stations force people to live close together, which results in 24/7 fighting :)
Eagles may soar, but weasels dont get sucked into jet engines |
Souvera Corvus
SPORADIC MOVEMENT
Cult of War
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Posted - 2009.10.09 01:13:00 -
[57]
Originally by: robbyx
Edited by: robbyx on 08/10/2009 08:12:03
although Dominion will change everything ?
Ive got some bad news for you buddy...
It wont change sod all....say a small alliance thinks they can finally grab some SOV...they take one system that used to belong to a bigger alliance....where do you think that bigger alliance is going to go for a fight ?
Dominion will change nothing except to create even bigger NAP's and to give the already big and powerful alliances more small alliances to crush...until the smaller alliances figure out its just not worth it, and vast expanses of space can go back to being useless.
Dont believe me ?...when Dominion hits, take your small alliance and go to Querious, scalding pass, fountain etc...see how long you last.
Dominion won't change the essential anture of 0.0 politics and the prevalence of NAP agreements, after all, everyone needs friends but if the question is one of why 0.0 is empty then Dominion does have the potential to fundementally change that.
No longer will any alliance be able to easily justify sqauatting on large tracts of empty space just because they can. As others say it'll be much more likely that they'll hive off chunks of it to pets/renters or if not that, they'll be in position to give tacit approval to a smaller alliance taking up residence.
Along with the ability to improve space, I can see this upping the population in 0.0 as opportunity and development take hold.
The major players will still be at the top but there will likely be a lot more smaller alliances muddying the waters and creating interest amongst themselves.
At least that's how I hope it plays out.
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Jojo Jackson
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Posted - 2009.10.09 01:43:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Jojo Jackson on 09/10/2009 01:43:29
Originally by: Moriel Damodred
nullsec is empty because the people who live in nullsec dont want anyone else there.
^This
Every day a new thread starts with some form of "nerv high to force people into low/00". But as soon as you go into low/00 you are ganged by the old holders and PODed back to highsec.
So sorry, even if you nerv highsec to level 1 only and intruduce new level 100 missions in low/00 it will be as empty as now (even more) becouse of this behavior of curent low/00 population!
This is nothink CCP can fix in any way (well, maybe one) but must be fixed be they current low/00 population themselve. Providence and CVA shows that it works and how (and they will be the true winner of the new coming system btw).
The only way CCP could help would be making ganing neutrals much MUCH harder (ak nerv rights of old holders by large).
And for those who call for "remove all highsec", you know what will happen then?
- Day 1 big gang fast all over
- Day 2 big flame fest all over
- Day 3 logged in accounts decreased to 1000
- Day 4 logged in decreased to 500
- following weeks it will stay at 500 as long as the marked is still seeded with ships, fitting, amunition
- then the number of logged in account slowly decreas to blow 100 and will stay there until server are shut down!!
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