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Michwich
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Posted - 2009.10.07 13:54:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Michwich on 07/10/2009 13:56:16
Judging by the forums youd think the unconsentual pvp crowd was the majority in this game, but when you actually play its the opposite, everyones in high sec and no ones in low sec. Why?
It kind of reminded me of PVP crowd in guildwars who used to think the game revoloved around them, and all balancing and what not should be done with their consideration. Until you stepped into a pvp arena and there was only a few dozen people on the pvp arena server compared to the hundreds in pve town outposts missioning, grouping whatever. Seems to be the same deal here. Why is it? In guild wars it was like that because the PVE game was just so much more interesting than arena PVP, I dont see PVE in this game so whats the deal?
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Jagga Spikes
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.10.07 13:55:00 -
[2]
path of least resistance
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Haakelen
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.10.07 13:57:00 -
[3]
Most 0.0 is empty because it's useless. Check back in a few months to see if it's still quite as empty as it is now.
Lowsec is underpopulated because it's the red-headed stepchild. It's considerably less safe than most 0.0 and much less profitable. The parts of it that are profitable are generally difficult to use unless you belong to a group of blues. FW Helped slightly, but it has its own problems.
IMO, at least.
 Originally by: Jack Jombardo
CCP love pirate, griffer, and other criminal acters!
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Laviski
UK Corp
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.10.07 14:03:00 -
[4]
the difference is:
you die in eve you lose isk and that amount can be extreme. As a result you will have to spend time to earn that isk back.
Remember eve is what you want it to be but truth be told 0.0 is generally blob or be blobbed.
Low sec is for the weak who can't hack 0.0.
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Zaerlorth Maelkor
The Maverick Navy
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.07 14:06:00 -
[5]
OP: Make up your mind, are you talking about lowsec or nullsec?
However, you might want to consider a few things, first of all; I now have one of those annoying sigs.
second; you should probably move on to some more interesting things than reading this sig.
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NeoTheo
Heretic Army
Heretic Nation
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Posted - 2009.10.07 14:06:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Laviski
Low sec is for the weak who can't hack 0.0.
what a load of utter crap - 0,0 is full of the biggest carebears in existance, with access to massive resources in 0,0 and free access to empire.
Lowsec tends to be the domain of the pirate, that means, next to no income from ratting and or mining, and no entry in to high sec to mission for cash.
dont talk utter tosh.
Heretic Nation |
Grunanca
Beyond Divinity Inc
Beyond Virginity
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Posted - 2009.10.07 14:09:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Laviski
the difference is:
you die in eve you lose isk and that amount can be extreme. As a result you will have to spend time to earn that isk back.
Remember eve is what you want it to be but truth be told 0.0 is generally blob or be blobbed.
Low sec is for the weak who can't hack 0.0.
Riiiiight... Now lets face it, 0.0 is a bunch of carebears that relies on strenght in numbers. If you look at percentage you will see a very low number of people with a clue about pvp in 0.0 compared to low sec.
Anyone can be 0.1% of a big blob and watch a 0.0001 FPS slideshow and then go back to carebear if they are the 1 unlucky guy to get primaried.
Being succesfull in low sec actually require other skills than gathering the bigegst group of meat shields for your nap.
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Laviski
UK Corp
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.10.07 14:12:00 -
[8]
low sec pvpers is for those that cba flying around 0.0 looking for targets. they sit on gate or play dockin games. Completely lame. If they ventured out it would bring more life in 0.0
So just give me more small roaming gangs and i will be happy and you will be happy as well for interupting the carebear machine as you call it if that is your thing.
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Knuckle Shuffle
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Posted - 2009.10.07 14:17:00 -
[9]
To me it's all the same 0.0/lowsec.Either way ur gonna lose a ship eventually
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2009.10.07 14:39:00 -
[10]
Mainly because most of it not profitable to be in.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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lollerwaffle
Sileo In Pacis
The Space P0lice
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Posted - 2009.10.07 14:41:00 -
[11]
Didn't the OP quit a week ago?
Also, game != forums.
I call trollpost, and thereby award 2/10 for effort.
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Kiva Aharan
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Posted - 2009.10.07 14:58:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Michwich
Edited by: Michwich on 07/10/2009 13:56:16
Judging by the forums youd think the unconsentual pvp crowd was the majority in this game
No they aren't.
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Sig Sour
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Posted - 2009.10.07 15:21:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Laviski
Remember eve is what you want it to be but truth be told 0.0 is generally blob or be blobbed.
Low sec is for skilled pilots who are not down with losing a ship to an alliance blob.
Fixed it for you.
Granted a lot of lame activities take place in low sec. 0.0 is a lot of fun if you actually do run across a good fight, however you are just much less likely to actually run into a good fight in 0.0. Null sec has gone to the alliance carebears.
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Draeklore
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Posted - 2009.10.07 15:23:00 -
[14]
Originally by: NeoTheo
Edited by: NeoTheo on 07/10/2009 14:07:52
what a load of utter crap - 0,0 is full of the biggest carebears in existance, with access to massive resources in 0,0 and free access to empire.
Have you ever lived in 0.0?
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Draeklore
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Posted - 2009.10.07 15:31:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Grunanca
Originally by: Laviski
the difference is:
you die in eve you lose isk and that amount can be extreme. As a result you will have to spend time to earn that isk back.
Remember eve is what you want it to be but truth be told 0.0 is generally blob or be blobbed.
Low sec is for the weak who can't hack 0.0.
Riiiiight... Now lets face it, 0.0 is a bunch of carebears that relies on strenght in numbers. If you look at percentage you will see a very low number of people with a clue about pvp in 0.0 compared to low sec.
Anyone can be 0.1% of a big blob and watch a 0.0001 FPS slideshow and then go back to carebear if they are the 1 unlucky guy to get primaried.
Being succesfull in low sec actually require other skills than gathering the bigegst group of meat shields for your nap.
There are those of us in 0.0 who roam in small gangs as opposed to blobs. Last night I made the mistake of chasing someone too far away from a station and an opposing alliance jumped me with 15 ships mostly HACs but also a dictor and a Rapier to top things off. I was in a Rupture.
I haven't hung out much in low-sec really so I can't comment much but from what I've seen its mostly groups of pirates who probe out people to kill which really is no different than blobbing. Though I'm sure there are some people in low sec who enjoy a "fair" fight.
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Traidor Disloyal
Private Nuisance
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Posted - 2009.10.07 16:13:00 -
[16]
Why is 0.0 so empty?
It's because all the Real Men and Women who now how to PvP live in High Sec doing Empire Wars, Mining, and Mission Running. I thought everyone knew that.
*************************************************
I have three characters. One has Cov Ops V along with all the bells and whistles that goes with it. |
Captain Tardbar
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Posted - 2009.10.07 16:21:00 -
[17]
As a n00b to me it appears that 0.0 doesn't have PvP because the parties are very powerful organizations who understand MAD and are heavily invested in keeping the status quo.
I've participated on a few FW runs and it seems a lot of PvP happens in lowsec. I think this is perhaps where the focus needs to be directed so that the average joe can participate in meaningful PvP without having to spends weeks worth of effort to do so in some sort of fashion.
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Jebidus Skari
Comply Or Die
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Posted - 2009.10.07 16:21:00 -
[18]
well because firstly alliance rarely stay home they like to stay in the npc regions, especially places like stain and venal which are full of faction and officer spawns, also theres nothing to do in 0.0, its only the stations you need and thats where youll find most people. If you go to NPC 0.0 areas youll find they are alot more busier than standard 0.0.
Dominion will hopefully change that where alliances can utilisise there space, and what they dont use will be up for grabs!
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Spurty
Caldari
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.10.07 16:28:00 -
[19]
You appear to have edited your post before i was able to reply. To the original post I counter with another question:
"Why are there any 0.0 systems that are so useless, people don't even bother going there to rat or mine?"
Seriously, as it stands, far too much of 0.0 appears to be 'filler'. If its got any value in it, it takes too much effort for the average "I have 2 hours to play tonight, what can I do?" type player
You are correct though, PVP in the sense of blowing up ships isn't the majority of the game.
PVP of ships exploding will never be what the majority is doing while it takes someone a week or 2 to replace a fully fitted T2 ship.
The downtime rebuilding ISK to get back into the game is too long for all but the very few (Sure, we'll hear from people telling us of their bazillions of isk, these lamers need to SPEND IT on a ship and USE it though, cause they are just more people not continually PVP'ing).
Personally, I need to make back the investment I recently splurged on before I can PVP with glee and not worry that I'll be stuck, unable to play because I can't even afford to update my medical clone :-0
pod losses are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more expensive that T1 ship losses when you get over a certain SP amount :0
Originally by: Machine Delta
When making a point, anyone taking it should consider the source.
pretty deep coming from you |
An Anarchyyt
Gallente
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.10.07 16:30:00 -
[20]
Of course it has nothing to do with the fact that numerically there is more 0.0 space in the game than any other space.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation
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Posted - 2009.10.07 16:31:00 -
[21]
Op quit posting, you make my head hurt,
Also set your destination to 77s in 0.0
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WTB a sig, or moderation of my sig by all the hot CCP girls. |
Cors
It's A Trap
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Posted - 2009.10.07 16:45:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Cors on 07/10/2009 16:54:58
One thing everyone needs to keep in mind.
Almost every single PVPer that "lives" in 0.0 also has 1-3 alts that live in empire for various reasons.
I have 4 accounts.
Of them 2 are dedicated PVP alts that stay in 0.0.
about 4 are cyno alts that sit between 0.0 and low sec.
4 are dedicated carebear alts.
I spend about 80% of my time on my carebear alts atm. Mainly because in 0.0 atm can't aupport the number of carebears sufficiently to warrant the effort.
So all those "carebears" you see in empire, probobly about 1/3rd of them are alts of "pvpers".
If dominion does everything we HOPE, and allows us to upgrade 0.0 so it can support a lot more people, then maybe you'll see a lot of the "carebears" move to 0.0.
As to WHY 0.0 is so empty, it's because noone wants to live out of a POS.
And Outposts are so few and far between.
People don't want to have to slow boat through 0.0 in a ratting ship a half dozen to a dozen jumps to find a system that's empty, and has a decent sec status so you can rat in "peace". Also a lot of "carebears" are ratting while doing other things. Reading, browseing the web, and so on. So they don't have the focus to rat in 0.0 as if ONE hostile comes in, they have to respond almost instantly.
If Dominion boosts 0.0 systems "ratting" capabilites to the point that 20-30 people can rat efficiently, then you'll see more people in 0.0, as it's easier to defend 5 systems for ratting/mining then 50.
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Mr Ignitious
R.E.C.O.N.
Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2009.10.07 16:48:00 -
[23]
simply put: 0.0 has the hardest time financially supporting large groups of people, especially factoring in risk. As it is TOP end ratting system + some cosmic anomalies may support 5 people at any given time AT MOST. Alliances can have hundreds up to thousands of people to sustain. Obviously you can already see crowding issues.
Low sec ratting has been "boosted"... but it's not going to be anyones main source of income. There are a few lvl 4 Q 20's in low sec that can be popular but you have to be part of some blue'd up intel chan n what not and you can count on being interrupted by pirates.
Finally you have high sec: A single system with a lvl 4 Q15 agent can single handedly support an infinite amount of players spewing out around 20mil an hour for decent mission runners. Beyond that, the risk involved is EXTREMELY low - as long as you don't shoot the occasional ninja salvager you'll likely be left alone.
Put that into perspective: The HONEST average player (which are not the type to get obsessed with the forums) are not interested in risking the isk they have earned, they just like making more and more isk. We call them carebears. They tend to make up the majority of every game. You can add in that a lot of pvpers use high sec mission running as their source of income as well.
Hopefully this will in fact change with dominion with the new sovereignty upgrade system and a 0.0 system can support 20ish players... we can hope right?
I read the forums assuming there are no trolls, only really stupid people.
Originally by: CCP Zulupark
WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU?
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OninoTimmo
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Posted - 2009.10.07 17:15:00 -
[24]
Why rat in 0.0 when you can make a similar amount in a completely safe high sec system?
If Dominion works as intended, you'll see a lot of those high-sec mission grinders try 0.0 and realize it's not as scary as they imagine it to be.
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Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic
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Posted - 2009.10.07 17:36:00 -
[25]
Originally by: OninoTimmo
Why rat in 0.0 when you can make a similar amount in a completely safe high sec system?
Because it's not all about the isk per hour or the path of least resistance.
Speaking for myself and the small corp I fly with -
Even with all of us online we can barely qualify as a small blob.
We greatly perfer 0.0 and spend almost all of our time there.
Freedom is the greatest reward.
Empire is a cluttered mess.
We like the quiet feel of many 0.0 areas. It's space, not a shopping mall. I don't want to see advertisments for the deal of the day in my local channel.
we don't want to have to concern ourselves with sec status, standings, or Concord flagging rules.
~ Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic |
GallenteCitizen0923475
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Posted - 2009.10.07 18:04:00 -
[26]
Originally by: NeoTheo
Edited by: NeoTheo on 07/10/2009 14:07:52
Originally by: Laviski
Low sec is for the weak who can't hack 0.0.
what a load of utter crap - 0,0 is full of the biggest carebears in existance, with access to massive resources in 0,0 and free access to empire.
Lowsec tends to be the domain of the pirate, that means, next to no income from ratting and or mining, and no entry in to high sec to mission for cash.
dont talk utter tosh.
to the OP's NAPS/powerblocks/ and choke points in the main, that and not all 0,0 is made equal in terms of usefull resources.
He cant help it, hes in MH, and anybody that was with them during the drone lands fight knows how well they do at fighting >.> bunch of panzies.
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Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
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Posted - 2009.10.07 18:17:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Emperor Cheney on 07/10/2009 18:20:06
Reading about 00 drama is what got me to try this game, but now that I'm playing, I realize I do not have enough time for 00. Never tried it, but everyone seems to describe it as having a job. That seems both not fun and way more time-intensive than I can afford. So, lowsec is the place for me. Fights when I want it, not at 4 am when some unemployed shut in calls for an op.
Maybe I'm totally wrong though. Again, never tried it. But nothing I've heard makes it sound either doable on a limited schedule or even particularly appealing.
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Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic
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Posted - 2009.10.07 18:42:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Emperor Cheney
Edited by: Emperor Cheney on 07/10/2009 18:20:06
Reading about 00 drama is what got me to try this game, but now that I'm playing, I realize I do not have enough time for 00. Never tried it, but everyone seems to describe it as having a job. That seems both not fun and way more time-intensive than I can afford. So, lowsec is the place for me. Fights when I want it, not at 4 am when some unemployed shut in calls for an op.
Maybe I'm totally wrong though. Again, never tried it. But nothing I've heard makes it sound either doable on a limited schedule or even particularly appealing.
Big alliance drama is pretty much as you've described. It is possible to have to operate in 0.0 as an independant pilot or small corp and skip the mega-alliance issues for the most part.
~ Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic |
Enyo Ousia
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Posted - 2009.10.07 18:46:00 -
[29]
0.0 sucks! The 0.0 crowd preach on an on about how cool 0.0 is, to attrach noobs to be blobbed, and pay/mine for thier capitals. Low sec is much more convient, within a few jumps of a market or PVP. Being 80 jumps from anywhere and traveling 40 jumps to be insta popped by doomsday is only fun for the guy doing the insta pop.
Originally by: Laviski
Remember eve is what you want it to be but truth be told 0.0 is generally blob or be blobbed.
happens in low sec too, but prolly not as bad.
Originally by: Laviski
Low sec is for the weak who can't hack 0.0.
personal opinion is the opposite. You can't hack it in low sec, so you join a 0.0 blob.
Joining a 0.0 corp is like joining a suburban street gang. Yay I fit in!
Waiting for 0.0 corp invite.
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Aisley Tyrion
The Penumbra Initiative
Atropos.
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Posted - 2009.10.07 20:08:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Cors
And Outposts are so few and far between.
Unless it's Providence, or Delve nowadays.
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Suboran
Gallente
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.07 20:14:00 -
[31]
most of 0.0 space is rubbish sec status, you can make more money in empire so it isnt needed.
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xxxak
Caldari
No Limit Productions
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.10.07 20:16:00 -
[32]
0.0 Isn't really that "empty," it's just mostly controlled by a few big alliances who kill anyone who even sits foot in their space.
It is as empty and as full as they want it to be.
Check out Providence. They are one of the few 0.0 land holders who allow randoms to enter without dying instantly.
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Enyo Ousia
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Posted - 2009.10.07 21:00:00 -
[33]
Being in a 0.0 aliance you are just another cog in the machine. Empire low or high sec. gives you the chance to be an individual. Wheather you take that chance or not is on you!
Less than my original message! **** the 5 minute rule!
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Mire Stoude
The Undesirables
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Posted - 2009.10.07 21:20:00 -
[34]
Bubbles. And the fact a person needs to have nearly total control over 2-3 systems to make the same isk in a level 4 missions.
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Ashina Sito
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.10.07 21:32:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Cors
As to WHY 0.0 is so empty, it's because noone wants to live out of a POS.
And Outposts are so few and far between.
This is the issue.
POS do not have med stations. If your podded your back somewhere out there XX number of jumps away from your base. Poor refine rates compound the ability to do anything ineffectively. Manufacturing can be limited. In addition your BPO's would be under threat if your attacked so you add an additional layer of logistics, BPC making and hauling. (not a huge endeavor but it is there.)
Add a clone bay to POS, give better refines at a POS, make it cheaper/easier to set up an outpost.
Dominion may help with the other problem. People say so much 0.0 is worthless, it is not. It is that there is better space controlled by their alliance so one one bothers to use the lower quality stuff. Other people would use it but they can not do to the far reaching abilities of the current alliances.
A small corp tries to set things up, but can't because of the lack of clone bays and the need to live out of a POS. The local AFK sov holders come and knock down the POS because it is in their space... in which no one from their alliance has jumped into since the last POS refueling too keep sov up.
Renting does not work. You get access to nothing good in the area, are forced to cart your ore x jumps to the nearest station to refine so it can be taxed in addition to your rent. You have to defend yourself vs threats with no help from your landlords and drop what your doing to help defend the space if your landlords sov gets attacked. These must be done to make the renter corps worth the exposure to meta gaming alt spys that having renters gets you.
All of these reasons are why you will see that 0.0 space with many stations (that have refining, manufacturing and clone stations) have a lot of pilots as well as more PvP then regions with little to no stations.
Dominion with it's effort to increase active pilot density in systems and decrease blanket sovereignty holding can work, if it combines it with an increase what I call the Genesis systems/constellations. These are systems in NPC 0.0 that have refining, manufacturing and clone bays so that a corp of young inexperienced pilots can make a stab at flying in 0.0. The regions are too poor for alliances to want to hold but can hold riches for those young players. After making a foothold they then can choose to try to expand into sovernty space or take the easier route and join up with an existing alliance.
Syndicate, Stain and to a degree Curse fit the need of Genesis regions but, others like The Great Wetland's and Venal are useless. They have 2 or 3 systems that have stations and it makes it nearly imposable to be utilized as "starter" 0.0. More stations in these regions gives more opportunities for more players to use 0.0. As their numbers grow and expand they can fill the gaps that hopefully will develop with the changes coming in Dominion.
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IMASCATMAN
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Posted - 2009.10.07 21:54:00 -
[36]
Originally by: xxxak
0.0 Isn't really that "empty," it's just mostly controlled by a few big alliances who kill anyone who even sits foot in their space.
It is as empty and as full as they want it to be.
Check out Providence. They are one of the few 0.0 land holders who allow randoms to enter without dying instantly.
This tbh, within 30 minutes of ratting in null sec the local alliance jump in 30 strong. What are small groups (who aren't affiliated with an alliance) supposed to do? Even if an evenly matched gang jump in and engage the call will have gone over alliance chat and help is obviously on the way. That's why I use wormholes to get my share of isk making and pvp.
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Liz Laser
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.10.07 22:21:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Liz Laser on 07/10/2009 22:21:47
Nullsec can't be afk'd.
I used to mine in empire while I did housework, so I "played" 14 hours on a weekend, though I touched my mouse and keyboard only 1/100th of that time.
Once I moved to nullsec, I simply couldn't do that. The nullsec experience is incredibly immersive and quite rewarding, but because it requires far more attention (or far more coordination with others), a 14 hour day in Eve means I've completely neglected my home and family for the day.
You basically see "fewer" people in nullsec, but they are far more likely to actually BE THERE than the autopiloting and mostly afk ships you see in highsec.
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Mr Azrael
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Posted - 2009.10.07 22:28:00 -
[38]
access.... that's it
one guy already said it chokepoints/blobs and big naptrains.
The far and deep 0.0 systems will never be heavily populated and no dominion is gonna fix that. If you can't reach it easily you'll never be able to 'feed' your people and a large group will just 'starve'.
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Moriel Damodred
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2009.10.08 05:12:00 -
[39]
From the perspective of someone who earlier was just trying to sell things to nullsec-livers earlier, nullsec is empty because the people who live in nullsec dont want anyone else there.
CCP wants more people in nullsec, the people in nullsec want noone besides them there. Hopefully dominion changes this some, but until the barriers to entry are lessened noone will go.
As an independant flyer (for the moment), i'd love to chill out and bounce around between null and highsec, shoot people sometimes, and notshoot people other times. However at the moment its not feasible because i cant operate in any capacity in nullsec at all.
Its kind of a inherant problem in any system where you can hold territory. You're going to hold as much as you can, and prevent others from gaining more. It doesn't promote taking anyone elses space, nor does it promote new growth, as once the pot is filled w/ people, theres no real way to maneuver around spaces to be able to attack.
Even if i wanted to make runs to hold my own system in deep nullsec, i have no good way of prospering unless there, since i need to run through everyone elses space between here and a market.
Maybe some re-writing of the geography such that there were more ways in and out of nullsec would help. If i was world-designing, i'd have made empire space the outer shell, nullsec the middle and NPC nullsec the core.
This post rambles a lot, but i think i made some good points a few times.
Everyone else had a sig and i felt lonly :( |
Souvera Corvus
SPORADIC MOVEMENT
Cult of War
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Posted - 2009.10.08 05:22:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Laviski
Low sec is for the weak who can't hack 0.0.
Ridiculous statement.
You have to think about what you're doing far more in low-sec and it presents some wholly different challenges.
As to why a lot of 0.0 is empty, its because the vast majority of it isn't really worth much and there's better places to spend your time.
Its no more complicated than that, although Dominion will change everything.
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Nooma K'Larr
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.10.08 05:54:00 -
[41]
What a stupid question.
Take a tour through 0.0 and report back to us.
...if you make it back that is.
___________________________________________________
Idea: Train 3 alts at the same time solution. |
Asuri Kinnes
Caldari
Adhocracy Incorporated
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Posted - 2009.10.08 07:45:00 -
[42]
0.0 is exactly as 0.0 Alliances want it to be.
Honor is that which you do when no one else is looking. |
robbyx
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Posted - 2009.10.08 08:10:00 -
[43]
Edited by: robbyx on 08/10/2009 08:12:03
although Dominion will change everything ?
Ive got some bad news for you buddy...
It wont change sod all....say a small alliance thinks they can finally grab some SOV...they take one system that used to belong to a bigger alliance....where do you think that bigger alliance is going to go for a fight ?
Dominion will change nothing except to create even bigger NAP's and to give the already big and powerful alliances more small alliances to crush...until the smaller alliances figure out its just not worth it, and vast expanses of space can go back to being useless.
Dont believe me ?...when Dominion hits, take your small alliance and go to Querious, scalding pass, fountain etc...see how long you last.
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Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari
Sane Industries Inc.
Novus Auctorita
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Posted - 2009.10.08 10:21:00 -
[44]
Originally by: robbyx
It wont change sod all....say a small alliance thinks they can finally grab some SOV...they take one system that used to belong to a bigger alliance....where do you think that bigger alliance is going to go for a fight ?
Dominion: The Whack-a-Mole expansion.
Don't believe me? Once Dominion hits take your large alliance and try to whack those 20 small alliances that sprung up around your former territory. You need to make the sov vulnerable, then spend 24 hours guarding the gate disruptors.
Repeat for each and every one of those alliances. There's limits to how many you can do in parallel else even a small gang will come and disrupt the timer. Next week you need to return to the first system again, as it was recaptured by people who actually use the systems. Seems ok, until you realize that you never even got around to cleaning out half the original alliances.
Rinse and repeat for a few weeks and you're going to stop wasting time trying to kick every single one out.
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ServantOfMask
Minmatar
Eye Bee Em
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Posted - 2009.10.08 10:43:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab
Don't believe me? Once Dominion hits take your large alliance and try to whack those 20 small alliances that sprung up around your former territory. You need to make the sov vulnerable, then spend 24 hours guarding the gate disruptors.
no they won't... one trip to smash any pos's that are up, contest sov and destroy what can be popped. come back in 1d 17hrs to kill off the RF'ed pos with all their stuff in it. go farm the other 19 new victims, by the time you are through the first one will have jumped more stuff out or left.
the most stubborn will stay a bit longer than most noob 0.0 alliances but they will simply become constant targets for roams and camps... see how long they have fun perma camped.
it'll be great for the "old alliances" who now only have a handful of jumps for victims and corps like Allstar1 and GK inc. who specialize in killing renters.
"Misina Arlath
GIRL = Guy In Real Life
MMORPG = Many Men Online Role Playing Girls." |
Schayol Sunkeeper
Imperial Crusade Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.10.08 10:54:00 -
[46]
the day local gets removed is the day i permanently settle to nullsec
also i think there is not a single 0.0 alliance that understood the "sandbox" part of the game. basically if you enter someones territory, and don't happen to be +10 blue, you're dead, and sometimes even if blue too.
i don't like this shoot on sight mentality. i always imagined how 0.0 is not "lawless" but you can make your own laws here. your own empire, with player police, player navy and a healthy amount of market trade going on. if that would be the case, you'd have more players almost instantly. imagine you pay like 20% global tax on everything and the territory owners protect you if you live in their space, if you get attacked by pirates for example, they'd come and help you
but as it stands, most alliances are not interested in people living in their systems
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations
Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2009.10.08 10:55:00 -
[47]
Originally by: ServantOfMask
no they won't... one trip to smash any pos's that are up, contest sov and destroy what can be popped. come back in 1d 17hrs to kill off the RF'ed pos with all their stuff in it. go farm the other 19 new victims, by the time you are through the first one will have jumped more stuff out or left.
Have you looked into how the new sov system works?
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
ServantOfMask
Minmatar
Eye Bee Em
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Posted - 2009.10.08 11:01:00 -
[48]
extensively... it wont change a damn thing for newcomers. but the sov maps will look less colorful. a small ninja corp might prosper until they show up on the map ... or pay off/NAP their neighbors.
"Misina Arlath
GIRL = Guy In Real Life
MMORPG = Many Men Online Role Playing Girls." |
Zartanic
Red Federation
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Posted - 2009.10.08 11:08:00 -
[49]
Its empty because there is no reason to go there unless your an alliance. Anyway you can happily PVP in hi sec and avoid the blobs and other lame mechanics that makes nul sec so exciting.
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yunger
Big Guns Inc.
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.08 11:14:00 -
[50]
I doubt the new mechanics will allow for small alliances to live independently out in 0,0 space. as things stand sov is only a "here be dragons" marker with the new system 0,0 alliances will probably claim less sov but they sure as hell won't allow neutral alliances to compromise their space. If you aren't blue you are hostile(whatever you might claim) and might start trouble, And you won't get to be blue if you don't contribute in some meaningful way.
long-term there will probably be lots of more space for pets. but if you think you can start a merry band of 20 carbears and claim some space you are a idiot.
People have some trouble seeing how things work now and how things will continue to work.
to live in 0,0 space you need to follow this chain.
1, be the big boys *****, or even worse be the ***** of a older more developed *****.
2, be a good *****, make sure to contribute lots to the cause without taking in to many members. Go on to be a lesser member in a coalition. Might not be for the same alliance that you were the ***** for, be prepared to move around a lot.
3, be a good lesser part of a coalition, get some moon gold as reward. Move on to become a important part of a coalition.
4, be part of invasion to the other end of eve. Drag some smaller alliances along and start your own coalition.
If your alliance is created by lots of big corps with 0,0 experience you might be able to skip step 1,
if your alliance is a bunch empire dwellers, with no 0,0 experience. Bring lub and prepare to bend over every time you are asked to for a while.
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NightCrawler 85
Phoibe Enterprises
SOLAR WING
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Posted - 2009.10.08 11:14:00 -
[51]
There is many things that "decides" if 0.0 is well populated or not.
Think back about mayby..a half year to a year and you would find more people in 0.0.The reason for that is simple...The New Eden war or whatever name people decided to go with.You had major fleet battles,pipes were camped to avoid "hostiles" getting trough and scout them out,you could not go a day without reading some new combat report on CAOD.All this made 0.0 space very..lucrative for all the people that wanted to exsperiense this and be a part of something that would determinate how the eve politics would end.And ofc for those people that just want pew pew ;)
If you look at the current state you will see that the majorety of the big alliances are NAP or allied.No drama on the forums,no huge battle reports or new videos that just make you sit and wish that YOU were a part of it.
This will change several things...One of them is that the classic pvp player WILL get bored.Im sure there are plenty of bigger alliances that have started to get war deced by more and more solo corperations,and obvius alt alliances/corperations.
But this also brings some good things,that only benefits smaller corperations/alliances/carebears. When things are this calm the alliances has no need to abuse the space they own fully,which means that renters,or "pets" become much more lucrative.
But ofc since the rents tend to be high,and many alliances will try to rip you off,combined with logistics and so on,it simply is not worth it for many corperations since they have other options like WH space which is free and easyer maintained.
But there is also truth in people wont bother to take and maintain the less valuable space.The politics involved and the cheer force needed to fight off your ritch neighbors leaves this as a close to impossible task unless you can afford to buy/sell a LOT of GTC's to provide your alliance with enough ISK for caps and POS's.Few will bother to go trough that trouble.
Dont worry.After the patch you will see a coupple of weeks were everyone tryes to fight everyone,new alliances trying to get a piece of the cake,and plenty if fights.It will be a calm coupple of weeks for empire huggers,but 0.0 residents will have a lot on their hands :)
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steveid
Helljumpers
Double Dietsch Rudders
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Posted - 2009.10.08 11:47:00 -
[52]
0.0 is empty because industry has moved out of 0.0. There are no real industrial alliances any more and alliances tend to be 100% pvp based whereas previously this was 60 - 80%. Part of this is alts, part jewgold and part the farce mining has become.
Basically there is no point being in a system unless your ratting and then that will support only 1 person per system.
If Dominion can change this then great.
If you read this then you have to lick my balls. |
Bunzan Cardinal
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2009.10.08 12:21:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Bunzan Cardinal on 08/10/2009 12:21:02
Originally by: Aisley Tyrion
Originally by: Cors
And Outposts are so few and far between.
Unless it's Providence, or Delve nowadays.
and you notice how populated providence is? TBH i think that is one of the major problems, lack of outposts. I bet if GS opened their stations for people to dock(not saying they should), it would be much more populated to. There's no reason for someone to go out to 0.0 if they cant have a place to dock.
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Ebrey mark2
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Posted - 2009.10.08 15:04:00 -
[54]
Low sec can be pretty quiet, but now and then it's great fun. Being a pirate in low sec is a challange many of us enjoy, you can be attacked anywhere, but you can't attack non-criminals yourself. (Well, not everywhere, or in any ship...)
A pirates life in low sec makes you think, gather intel, and you get to fight anyone YOU want. A pirates life is living on the edge:)
It's not better or worse compared to high sec or 0.0, it's just one of many aspects of Eve.
Bottom line: If you enjoy running mission in high sec, do that. If you want to be a criminal in low sec, do that. If you want to be in a great alliance in 0.0, do that. After all, you're the one paying for your subscription.
Best regards, Ebrey Mark2 (The Tuskers)
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Josh Silver
Amarr
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.10.08 15:04:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Josh Silver on 08/10/2009 15:04:46
Originally by: Bunzan Cardinal
Edited by: Bunzan Cardinal on 08/10/2009 12:21:02
Originally by: Aisley Tyrion
Originally by: Cors
And Outposts are so few and far between.
Unless it's Providence, or Delve nowadays.
and you notice how populated providence is? TBH i think that is one of the major problems, lack of outposts. I bet if GS opened their stations for people to dock(not saying they should), it would be much more populated to. There's no reason for someone to go out to 0.0 if they cant have a place to dock.
You can live very well out of NPC stations in Delve. In fact their market is often better than the goon stations'
Also the only ones that would come (besides enemy spies etc) would be neutrals trying to rat and plex, which is the last thing we need. The non-****ty ratting systems are already overcrowded, and good luck finding a fresh plex.
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Red Thunder
tr0pa de elite
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.10.08 15:34:00 -
[56]
because most of 0.0 just sucks. The only good regions are delve, stain, venal, curse tbh. Lots of good rats and npc stations force people to live close together, which results in 24/7 fighting :)
Eagles may soar, but weasels dont get sucked into jet engines |
Souvera Corvus
SPORADIC MOVEMENT
Cult of War
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Posted - 2009.10.09 01:13:00 -
[57]
Originally by: robbyx
Edited by: robbyx on 08/10/2009 08:12:03
although Dominion will change everything ?
Ive got some bad news for you buddy...
It wont change sod all....say a small alliance thinks they can finally grab some SOV...they take one system that used to belong to a bigger alliance....where do you think that bigger alliance is going to go for a fight ?
Dominion will change nothing except to create even bigger NAP's and to give the already big and powerful alliances more small alliances to crush...until the smaller alliances figure out its just not worth it, and vast expanses of space can go back to being useless.
Dont believe me ?...when Dominion hits, take your small alliance and go to Querious, scalding pass, fountain etc...see how long you last.
Dominion won't change the essential anture of 0.0 politics and the prevalence of NAP agreements, after all, everyone needs friends but if the question is one of why 0.0 is empty then Dominion does have the potential to fundementally change that.
No longer will any alliance be able to easily justify sqauatting on large tracts of empty space just because they can. As others say it'll be much more likely that they'll hive off chunks of it to pets/renters or if not that, they'll be in position to give tacit approval to a smaller alliance taking up residence.
Along with the ability to improve space, I can see this upping the population in 0.0 as opportunity and development take hold.
The major players will still be at the top but there will likely be a lot more smaller alliances muddying the waters and creating interest amongst themselves.
At least that's how I hope it plays out.
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Jojo Jackson
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Posted - 2009.10.09 01:43:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Jojo Jackson on 09/10/2009 01:43:29
Originally by: Moriel Damodred
nullsec is empty because the people who live in nullsec dont want anyone else there.
^This
Every day a new thread starts with some form of "nerv high to force people into low/00". But as soon as you go into low/00 you are ganged by the old holders and PODed back to highsec.
So sorry, even if you nerv highsec to level 1 only and intruduce new level 100 missions in low/00 it will be as empty as now (even more) becouse of this behavior of curent low/00 population!
This is nothink CCP can fix in any way (well, maybe one) but must be fixed be they current low/00 population themselve. Providence and CVA shows that it works and how (and they will be the true winner of the new coming system btw).
The only way CCP could help would be making ganing neutrals much MUCH harder (ak nerv rights of old holders by large).
And for those who call for "remove all highsec", you know what will happen then?
- Day 1 big gang fast all over
- Day 2 big flame fest all over
- Day 3 logged in accounts decreased to 1000
- Day 4 logged in decreased to 500
- following weeks it will stay at 500 as long as the marked is still seeded with ships, fitting, amunition
- then the number of logged in account slowly decreas to blow 100 and will stay there until server are shut down!!
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