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Why are ECM jammers considered offensive?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Atticus Fynch	Posted - 2009.10.09 04:40:00 - [1] OK, so Im in 0.5 space and some clown scans my cargo hoping to suicide me. I can not stop him from scanning me. I have to wait until he fires upon me before I can turn on my ECM jammers. Currently, ECM jammers are considered the same as guns...if you turn it one, concord will kick your ass. This does not seem balanced to me.
Valeronx Celestial Horizon Corp. United Corporate Ventures	Posted - 2009.10.09 04:43:00 - [2] Originally by: Atticus Fynch This does not seem balanced to me. Why not ?
Dario Wall Caldari	Posted - 2009.10.09 04:43:00 - [3] Edited by: Dario Wall on 09/10/2009 04:43:51 Does allowing people to probe out someone in a mission and run dedicated ECM ships on them nonstop so they can't shoot the NPCs seem balanced? How about neutral pilots in ECM ships jamming war targets so they can't fight back? Does that seem balanced?
Atticus Fynch	Posted - 2009.10.09 04:46:00 - [4] If someone targets you, you should be able to use any anti-target measures without having to contend with Concord. You shouldn't have to wait until you are fired upon.
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.10.09 04:47:00 - [5] I agree with the OP <goes ninjasalvaging in a Falcon>
Dario Wall Caldari	Posted - 2009.10.09 04:50:00 - [6] Originally by: Atticus Fynch If someone targets you, you should be able to use any anti-target measures without having to contend with Concord. You shouldn't have to wait until you are fired upon. I wonder how many people are going to use agents to find you just so they can follow you around and target you.
Atticus Fynch	Posted - 2009.10.09 04:52:00 - [7] Originally by: Dario Wall Originally by: Atticus Fynch If someone targets you, you should be able to use any anti-target measures without having to contend with Concord. You shouldn't have to wait until you are fired upon. I wonder how many people are going to use agents to find you just so they can follow you around and target you. Industrial/Transports are often randomly targeted when approaching gates. Obviously with the intent of scanning your cargo and determining if you are work a suicide gank.
Khemul Zula Amarr Keisen Trade League	Posted - 2009.10.09 04:58:00 - [8] Originally by: Atticus Fynch Originally by: Dario Wall Originally by: Atticus Fynch If someone targets you, you should be able to use any anti-target measures without having to contend with Concord. You shouldn't have to wait until you are fired upon. I wonder how many people are going to use agents to find you just so they can follow you around and target you. Industrial/Transports are often randomly targeted when approaching gates. Obviously with the intent of scanning your cargo and determining if you are work a suicide gank. Technically they arn't being randomly targeted. The idea would cause trouble with the autotarget feature.
Jin Nib Resplendent Knives	Posted - 2009.10.09 05:00:00 - [9] Yes preventing another ships equipment from working is not offensive at all. They are looking at you, big deal. I'm sure that if you were on a bus and some guy started eyeballing you you wouldn't jump on him and pluck out his eyes. -Jin Nib Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since: 2009.03.02 03:53:00
Atticus Fynch	Posted - 2009.10.09 05:04:00 - [10] Originally by: Jin Nib Yes preventing another ships equipment from working is not offensive at all. They are looking at you, big deal. I'm sure that if you were on a bus and some guy started eyeballing you you wouldn't jump on him and pluck out his eyes. If I were in a battlefield and some sniper was eyeballing me...YES, I would pluck his eyes out. EVE is a battlefield...not a bus ride.

Khemul Zula Amarr Keisen Trade League	Posted - 2009.10.09 05:09:00 - [11] Originally by: Atticus Fynch Originally by: Jin Nib Yes preventing another ships equipment from working is not offensive at all. They are looking at you, big deal. I'm sure that if you were on a bus and some guy started eyeballing you you wouldn't jump on him and pluck out his eyes. If I were in a battlefield and some sniper was eyeballing me...YES, I would pluck his eyes out. EVE is a battlefield...not a bus ride. That's not very nice. The sniper is obviously on your side if you are close enough to pluck his eyes out.
Celeritas 5k Caldari Destry's Lounge Important Internet Spaceship League	Posted - 2009.10.09 05:31:00 - [12] Originally by: Atticus Fynch If I were in a battlefield and some sniper was eyeballing me...YES, I would pluck his eyes out. EVE is a battlefield...not a bus ride. What's all this talk about a sni - NEVER PVP SOBER.
Jin Nib Resplendent Knives	Posted - 2009.10.09 05:39:00 - [13] Originally by: Atticus Fynch Originally by: Jin Nib Yes preventing another ships equipment from working is not offensive at all. They are looking at you, big deal. I'm sure that if you were on a bus and some guy started eyeballing you you wouldn't jump on him and pluck out his eyes. If I were in a battlefield and some sniper was eyeballing me...YES, I would pluck his eyes out. EVE is a battlefield...not a bus ride. I too agree that we should remove nonsense security measures from the game. But high sec empire is not a battle field, it's a stretch to even call it a dangerous neighborhood. -Jin Nib Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since: 2009.03.02 03:53:00
Atticus Fynch	Posted - 2009.10.09 05:44:00 - [14] Originally by: Jin Nib Originally by: Atticus Fynch Originally by: Jin Nib Yes preventing another ships equipment from working is not offensive at all. They are looking at you, big deal. I'm sure that if you were on a bus and some guy started eyeballing you you wouldn't jump on him and pluck out his eyes. If I were in a battlefield and some sniper was eyeballing me...YES, I would pluck his eyes out. EVE is a battlefield...not a bus ride. I too agree that we should remove nonsense security measures from the game. But high sec empire is not a battle field, it's a stretch to even call it a dangerous neighborhood. I found out the hard way that 0.5 is not really "high-sec." Takes Concord 20 secs to show up and in the process I was ganked. Lost 175 mill in cargo and collateral. Tell me again why ECM jammers are bad unless fired upon?
Lance Fighter Amarr	Posted - 2009.10.09 05:46:00 - [15] Originally by: Atticus Fynch Originally by: Jin Nib Originally by: Atticus Fynch Originally by: Jin Nib Yes preventing another ships equipment from working is not offensive at all. They are looking at you, big deal. I'm sure that if you were on a bus and some guy started eyeballing you you wouldn't jump on him and pluck out his eyes. If I were in a battlefield and some sniper was eyeballing me...YES, I would pluck his eyes out. EVE is a battlefield...not a bus ride. I too agree that we should remove nonsense security measures from the game. But high sec empire is not a battle field, it's a stretch to even call it a dangerous neighborhood. I found out the hard way that 0.5 is not really "high-sec." Takes Concord 20 secs to show up and in the process I was ganked. Lost 175 mill in cargo and collateral. Tell me again why ECM jammers are bad unless fired upon? Pro tip. As soon as them brackets turn red.. TURN THEM JAMMERS ON. If you miss... sucks to be you. Blane Xero > Lance is at -0.9 sec status with a 1 million bounty. LAnce is also amarrian. Thats 3 evil points
Dario Wall Caldari	Posted - 2009.10.09 05:47:00 - [16] Originally by: Atticus Fynch Tell me again why ECM jammers are bad unless fired upon? Read my first reply to this topic again. There's your answer. ECM is electronic warfare. Does it make sense to you that it should be allowed free use on any target in any security system with no penalty?
OwlManAtt Gallente Yasashii Heavy Industries	Posted - 2009.10.09 05:53:00 - [17] Quote: Tell me again why ECM jammers are bad unless fired upon? Sure. If you read your own thread, you'll find some really good reasons: Quote: Does allowing people to probe out someone in a mission and run dedicated ECM ships on them nonstop so they can't shoot the NPCs seem balanced? How about neutral pilots in ECM ships jamming war targets so they can't fight back? Does that seem balanced? What you want to be asking for is cargo scanners changed so they cause the user to be flagged. --- Owl
Atticus Fynch	Posted - 2009.10.09 05:59:00 - [18] Originally by: Lance Fighter Pro tip. As soon as them brackets turn red.. TURN THEM JAMMERS ON. If you miss... sucks to be you. Thanks. First time I cam across this. Yes, it sucked.
Varesk Gallente Maelstrom Crew	Posted - 2009.10.09 06:20:00 - [19] make sure you use ecm bursts, they work great. ----- removed due to size.
Ishquar Teh'Sainte Evoke. Ev0ke	Posted - 2009.10.09 06:26:00 - [20] if you have valuable cargo, then don't ... -) fly afk -) use an untanked t1 hauler ___________________ ---[SAY NO TO CYNO-LOGISTICS]---

Cyberman Mastermind	Posted - 2009.10.09 06:31:00 - [21] Originally by: OwlManAtt What you want to be asking for is cargo scanners changed so they cause the user to be flagged. THIS. ECM is offensive, as it should be. Scanning someone should be as well. You have no business poking around in my fitting or cargo. If you do, at least take the chance that someone may value his privacy enough to shoot you. Why should there be no risk in scanning, if there is risk in hauling?
Aurora Nyx Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.10.09 06:57:00 - [22] Put a tinfoil hat on your ship and move along. There's no troll to see here.
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2009.10.09 07:34:00 - [23] Originally by: Cyberman Mastermind Originally by: OwlManAtt What you want to be asking for is cargo scanners changed so they cause the user to be flagged. THIS. ECM is offensive, as it should be. Scanning someone should be as well. You have no business poking around in my fitting or cargo. If you do, at least take the chance that someone may value his privacy enough to shoot you. Why should there be no risk in scanning, if there is risk in hauling? CONCORD provides consequences, not risk. If you really want to go down the risk/reward thing for high security space then get ready for some heavy, heavy, heavy nerfs to high sec money making. Originally by: CCP Whisper So you're going to have to do some actual thinking with regards to hull components and their capabilities instead of copying some cookie-cutter setup. Cry some more.
Synex Gallente BIG	Posted - 2009.10.09 07:38:00 - [24] Originally by: Atticus Fynch Originally by: Jin Nib Yes preventing another ships equipment from working is not offensive at all. They are looking at you, big deal. I'm sure that if you were on a bus and some guy started eyeballing you you wouldn't jump on him and pluck out his eyes. If I were in a battlefield and some sniper was eyeballing me...YES, I would pluck his eyes out. EVE is a battlefield...not a bus ride. If you can see a sniper before he kills you, he's a rubbish sniper and deserves to have his eyes plucked anyways. Snipers are second only to ninjas in their sexeh-stealth abilities. Synex Oursulaert Industries
Gigelcelrau Gallente Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2009.10.09 07:38:00 - [25] Quick question, what happens when people start using ECM alts for empire wars because turning on ECM does not provoke a hostile response?
Tippia Raddick Explorations Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2009.10.09 07:44:00 - [26] An ECM modules negatively affects the targeted ship, a scanner does not. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Amaron Ghant Caldari Matsuko Industries	Posted - 2009.10.09 08:31:00 - [27] Edited by: Amaron Ghant on 09/10/2009 08:31:24 Targetting and ship scanning should be considered offensive, I know I find them so. I would sup with the devil and forget to use a long spoon if it led to me spitting on the grave of nationalism.
Dorian Wylde	Posted - 2009.10.09 09:24:00 - [28] Originally by: Tippia An ECM modules negatively affects the targeted ship, a scanner does not. When a scanner leads to a suicide gank, it does. The question is, at what point do we draw the line?
Catrina Denaries Caldari	Posted - 2009.10.09 09:34:00 - [29] Edited by: Catrina Denaries on 09/10/2009 09:35:35 What you are asking for is just wierd. For obvious reasons mentioned above, ECM, Damps, Tracking Disruptors and whatever EWAR there is cannot be used without getting an agression flag. If you can't understand that you seriously need to go home and rethink your life. As for making cargo/ship scanning an agression, why should it? It's a harmless scan. Besides, if you DO get scanned, you know a suicide gank is in the making. Get safe, tank up and laugh when they get blown to bits by CONCORD. Or simply choose another route. It's EASY to avoid being suicided. Stop whining. Adapt. Originally by: Dorian Wylde When a scanner leads to a suicide gank, it does. The question is, at what point do we draw the line? We draw the line when the activated module directly affects your ship in a negative way. A ship scanner does not, nor a cargo scanner. ----- The yarr is strong with this one.
Mashie Saldana BFG Tech	Posted - 2009.10.09 09:44:00 - [30] Don't fly AFK using the autopilot and they won't have time to scan you.



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