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Dyaven Red Federation	Posted - 2009.10.10 20:34:00 - [1] Yay. More Gallente whines. I was (rather stupidly) playing around in EFT with an Arazu fit to actually damp things. Seeing as there's no room for a shield tank of any sort with 6 mids, and how 5 of them are taken up instantly (MWD, Point, 3 Damps). So I slapped a 1600mm plate on there, and my jaw dropped at the align time- 9.6 seconds!? Even without the plate, it's a dreadful 7.8 seconds. A Myrmidon with a 1600mm plate only aligns one second slower than a plated Arazu! How can a ship that needs stealth and range be so fat and slow? On top of having the worst EWAR system, I don't see how this ship is flyable in any way shape or form.
Neriel Odershank	Posted - 2009.10.10 20:37:00 - [2] Arazu makes me sad. It could be a nice ship, but it's just broken in so many ways. CCP is strangly quick in fixing caldari ships, the only things they are quick about gallente... is nerfing them...
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.10.10 20:50:00 - [3] Which is pretty much the same as the other recon ships.
Renarla	Posted - 2009.10.10 20:53:00 - [4] Originally by: Furb Killer Which is pretty much the same as the other recon ships. Really? Peeks at EFT Wow... Without any fitting mods and all skills V: Arazu: 7.6s Falcon: 6.7s Pilgrim: 7.8s Rapier: 6.7s Am I the only one that sees this as completely backwards? The one with the 'safest' operating range, 100km+, has one of the fastest align times (Falcon) while the mid-range (Arazu) is 7.6s and even worse, the close-range Pilgrim is 7.8s? However, on another note, I now have one of those annoying sigs.
BiggestT Caldari Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2009.10.10 20:55:00 - [5] You can only really use it to tackle, and shut off mwd's from long range. It is possible to form a nice combo with a falcon, but it's kinda niche (and the "why not use another falcon instead" kinda makes it less cool) So yes, sensor damps shld be made more viable on this ship. EVE Trivia EVE History
Psiri	Posted - 2009.10.10 20:56:00 - [6] It's a ship that has its place in recon+sb gangs and limited use for anything else, as for the blaster Arazu it's pretty much just a very poor Pilgrim. One thing though, why would you ever want to fit a 1600mm plate on it anyway? It has an abundance of mids that can be used for a shield buffer.
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.10.10 20:56:00 - [7] While ago i wanted to go through caldari space when i still was in FW with my rapier (just for travelling). I forgot that you cant cloak in space of opponent race, and believe me without the cloak it looks like it takes a rapier ages to allign, and that is the fastest alligner.
McHaulie	Posted - 2009.10.10 21:08:00 - [8] Originally by: Psiri It's a ship that has its place in recon+sb gangs and limited use for anything else, as for the blaster Arazu it's pretty much just a very poor Pilgrim. One thing though, why would you ever want to fit a 1600mm plate on it anyway? It has an abundance of mids that can be used for a shield buffer. 6 is not an "abundance", especially considering it's function. If you gave me 8 mids on an Arazu I would still be hard pressed to fit a decent shield buffer along with the propulsion, points, damps and cap booster.
Don Pellegrino	Posted - 2009.10.10 21:34:00 - [9] dont forget that it has one of the worst capacitor of all the cruisers, especially when compared to the other T2 cruisers (including other reacons).
Co'chese Hedion University	Posted - 2009.10.10 21:42:00 - [10] Originally by: McHaulie Originally by: Psiri It's a ship that has its place in recon+sb gangs and limited use for anything else, as for the blaster Arazu it's pretty much just a very poor Pilgrim. One thing though, why would you ever want to fit a 1600mm plate on it anyway? It has an abundance of mids that can be used for a shield buffer. 6 is not an "abundance", especially considering it's function. If you gave me 8 mids on an Arazu I would still be hard pressed to fit a decent shield buffer along with the propulsion, points, damps and cap booster. haha apparently you want you cake and eat it too? i think all the recons pretty much fall into this category. either fit a tank or ewar or tackle not all three. the problem with the arazu is not lack of slots its the poor performance of its ewar compared to the others. i think the key is if you want tank then you can get a good tank an a point but if you want 2 tackle mods then you have to sacrifice some tank. its give and take.

Cpt Branko The Scope	Posted - 2009.10.10 21:57:00 - [11] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 10/10/2009 21:57:49 Originally by: Renarla Without any fitting mods and all skills V: Arazu: 7.6s Falcon: 6.7s Pilgrim: 7.8s Rapier: 6.7s Am I the only one that sees this as completely backwards? Probably, given this is how it works for practically every shipclass: agility Minmatar Caldari Gallente Amarr speed: Minmatar Gallente Amarr Caldari Only problem with the Arazu is that it does not have a large enough damp bonus to make it worth using damps. Otherwise, it sees awesome usage as a long range point ship or as a shorter ranged MWD killer. Both of these are very powerful things, long range tackle in particular. With a single damp, it is not lockable by a generic non-SBed ship at its point range. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Grimpak Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.10.10 22:42:00 - [12] Originally by: Dyaven Yay. More Gallente whines. I was (rather stupidly) playing around in EFT with an Arazu fit to actually damp things. Seeing as there's no room for a shield tank of any sort with 6 mids, and how 5 of them are taken up instantly (MWD, Point, 3 Damps). So I slapped a 1600mm plate on there, and my jaw dropped at the align time- 9.6 seconds!? Even without the plate, it's a dreadful 7.8 seconds. A Myrmidon with a 1600mm plate only aligns one second slower than a plated Arazu! How can a ship that needs stealth and range be so fat and slow? On top of having the worst EWAR system, I don't see how this ship is flyable in any way shape or form. yeah well we stopped using arazus in corp cuz they were getting killed left and right. now we use tackling interceptors. does the same job, only faster, and they actually survive. --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
Captain Vampire	Posted - 2009.10.10 22:52:00 - [13] The arazu is obsolete at the moment, as its role is pretty much done better by other ships. It still has a niche role in W-space though and scrambling in lowsec gate camps, but thats all. General scouting and tacking in k-space: Interceptors > Arazu Cloaking advantage is negated by local, arazu warps slower and moves slower. Any gatecamp able to prevent a ceptor from warping out will catch an arazu. EWAR: Falcon > Arazu Falcon is hand down better, no point comparing these ships.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.10.11 01:15:00 - [14] Originally by: Renarla Am I the only one that sees this as completely backwards? The one with the 'safest' operating range, 100km+, has one of the fastest align times (Falcon) while the mid-range (Arazu) is 7.6s and even worse, the close-range Pilgrim is 7.8s? ER. Yeah. Check the Falcon's operating range again. They nerfed it recently - ECMs are now shorter range than damps. They go into falloff at about the same time as the non-overheated warp disruptor runs out of range. Originally by: Captain Vampire The arazu is obsolete at the moment, as its role is pretty much done better by other ships. It still has a niche role in W-space though and scrambling in lowsec gate camps, but thats all. General scouting and tacking in k-space: Interceptors > Arazu Cloaking advantage is negated by local, arazu warps slower and moves slower. Any gatecamp able to prevent a ceptor from warping out will catch an arazu. Oh god no. Local is a pain, sure, but covert cloaking remains awesome - you're always the one picking the fight, and that makes up a _lot_ of difference in general combat capability. 'ceptors make better straight tacklers, sure. But the Arazu is the one with the 50km+ point, the ability to damp down a target (most non recons) below that 50km point range with a single damp, and an actually fairly handy amount of drone firepower as well. Sure, if all you want is a fast, long range point, then a 'ceptor is the tool for the job. If you want a combat scout though, Arazus are still pretty good. Quote: EWAR: Falcon > Arazu Falcon is hand down better, no point comparing these ships. If all you want is ewar, pick the ship more specced in ewar. Arazu is a multi role ship.
Rexthor Hammerfists Rage of Inferno Zenith Affinity	Posted - 2009.10.11 01:44:00 - [15] The arazu could be a nice ship, even with todays dampeners which arent as good as ecm but still have an impact. What hurts the ship and its tackling-role, is having a small tank and a range bonus forcing it to keep its range. It turns slow tho, it has horrible cap making it tough to keep the damps and tackle running after a few mwd cycles and its locktime makes me bite my keyboard everytime i warp on a target, only to watch it get away while locking it up. Cruiser railguns arent quite up there with lasers or arties with the coming buff either, especially when only being able to fit 3. -
Psiri	Posted - 2009.10.11 01:53:00 - [16] Originally by: McHaulie 6 is not an "abundance", especially considering it's function. If you gave me 8 mids on an Arazu I would still be hard pressed to fit a decent shield buffer along with the propulsion, points, damps and cap booster. If you go lolfit blasters damps don't do nothing anyway, which means plenty of mids to spare for tank. If you go for the standard long range tackler fit (ie. the one which is actually has a use) you're operating at ranges where you do not need more than one or two damps at most, which means still having a fair buffer for a long range engagement ship. The Arazu is fine, as it at least has a unique role to fill. The Lachesis on the other hand...
Adacia Calla Minmatar 1st Steps Academy Tread Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.11 03:15:00 - [17] Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Dyaven Yay. More Gallente whines. I was (rather stupidly) playing around in EFT with an Arazu fit to actually damp things. Seeing as there's no room for a shield tank of any sort with 6 mids, and how 5 of them are taken up instantly (MWD, Point, 3 Damps). So I slapped a 1600mm plate on there, and my jaw dropped at the align time- 9.6 seconds!? Even without the plate, it's a dreadful 7.8 seconds. A Myrmidon with a 1600mm plate only aligns one second slower than a plated Arazu! How can a ship that needs stealth and range be so fat and slow? On top of having the worst EWAR system, I don't see how this ship is flyable in any way shape or form. yeah well we stopped using arazus in corp cuz they were getting killed left and right. now we use tackling interceptors. does the same job, only faster, and they actually survive. Not to mention a full fit inty costs 1/5 as much as a fit Arazu :/
Titan Pilot Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.10.11 06:21:00 - [18] They need to remove the Arazu from the DB and replace it with a ship called "Because of Falcon" ... kidding!!! The truth is the ship ain't terribad. I mean you have a plate for buffer to allow you wiggle room during an engagement. The damps can allow you to tackle alot of ships with impunity and with a bit of luck, the rats can help you kill it. If you decide to engage more than 1 ship, well I guess your kinda screwed and should be spamming warp about now GOGOGOGOGOGOGO Sadly, Armor plated Recons are not the best choices for roaming gangs that usually include Shield buffers and logistics. I do think CCP is starting to acknowledge this difference. And yes, this likely means shield buffers will be nerfed with mass increases in all likelyhood. So to answer your question, the Arazu is likely to get better, eventually. Just you watch.... SoonTM
Tippia Raddick Explorations Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2009.10.11 09:31:00 - [19] They're already looking at giving the ewar ships (apart from Rook/Falcon) bigger bonuses to make up for the various nerfs the ewar systems have received. So Soon™ indeed. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2009.10.11 09:37:00 - [20] Originally by: Grimpak now we use tackling interceptors. does the same job, only faster, and they actually survive. I'd love to know how you fit a probe launcher and covops cloak on your interceptors.

kessah Mentally Unstable Enterprises	Posted - 2009.10.11 11:31:00 - [21] Originally by: Gypsio III Originally by: Grimpak now we use tackling interceptors. does the same job, only faster, and they actually survive. I'd love to know how you fit a probe launcher and covops cloak on your interceptors. me too. imho there is nothing wrong with Gallente Recons, they serve a very important role.
King Rothgar Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2009.10.11 11:34:00 - [22] The gallente recons are long range tacklers, not sensor damp ships. Yes they have a bonus to it but it is a secondary EW, not the primary. Complaining about their capabilities as a sensor damp ship is like complaining about amarr recons tracking disruptor bonus or the minmatar's target painter bonus. These ships get two totally separate sets of EW bonuses. The main one for the gallente is warp disruptor range and believe me, that's useful. The minmatar get a web range bonus and the amarr get that oh so lovely neut bonus. Those 3 bonuses are very powerful if used properly. The caldari are the ones who kinda get screwed with just 1 trick unless someone added a new bonus without me noticing. -----------------------------------------------------
Gim Memore Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.10.11 11:35:00 - [23] An arazu can tackle an enemy 40-50km away as fast as it can lock (which with 1 sb and 1 sig amp, is pretty quick), whereas an inty needs to travel the distance first. If it's landing out of warp or is for another reason staring at 0 speed, then often the arazu could have the tackle when the inty couldn't. Maybe more importantly, this also applies to shutting off mwds. The arazu can land outa warp and shut it off at over 20km. The inty needs to approach and altho it accelerates very quickly, the split second can make the difference between getting the tackle and not. Then of course, the arazu can warp cloaked and probe out targets whereas the inty can't...
Grimpak Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.10.11 11:43:00 - [24] Originally by: Gypsio III Originally by: Grimpak now we use tackling interceptors. does the same job, only faster, and they actually survive. I'd love to know how you fit a probe launcher and covops cloak on your interceptors. we have covert ops for that but if you're talking about cruiser-sized probing ships, we have rapiers and falcons and pilgrims that do that too. --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.10.11 12:22:00 - [25] Originally by: Gim Memore An arazu can tackle an enemy 40-50km away as fast as it can lock (which with 1 sb and 1 sig amp, is pretty quick), whereas an inty needs to travel the distance first. If it's landing out of warp or is for another reason staring at 0 speed, then often the arazu could have the tackle when the inty couldn't. Maybe more importantly, this also applies to shutting off mwds. The arazu can land outa warp and shut it off at over 20km. The inty needs to approach and altho it accelerates very quickly, the split second can make the difference between getting the tackle and not. Then of course, the arazu can warp cloaked and probe out targets whereas the inty can't... Lets not forget that a _single_ damp is enough to damp a target's lock range to the point where it can't lock the Arazu. Barring other recons, at least. (Admittedly, the case of e.g. a Rokh, that's quite narrow a threshold)
RuleoftheBone Minmatar The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.10.11 12:55:00 - [26] I have actually enjoyed flying the Arazu recently. Fitted with 48km/18km/damp/damp I can tackle whatever and shut it's lock range down to whatever 51%+51% is for a given ship...they cannot lock or shoot back and wingmen can stay at range with impunity. I have also been cycle damping in conjunction with other EWAR and using it to counter ECM....still works pretty well. Heck even shock-tackled a Crow from range...shut off its MWD and gave some BS's along for the ride the chance to get the kill. Go figure. Very effective and annoying ship...perhaps not very useful in large fleets but it works. As pointed out ealier though...the Lachesis is nearly as bad as the Huginn due to rubbish grid/CPU and terrible 3 slot lows.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.10.11 13:07:00 - [27] Lachesis and Huginn suffer from the same problem. Their theoretical 'more gank' isn't really. Arazu and Lachesis... actually I have to say despite all this so far, their real weakness is in RSDs - they're ... expensive to fit, in CPU, cap use, and too short on range. A bit of an upward tweak on fitting space on both Lachesis and Huginn would then be all that's needed to make those good ships too - as is the Huginn can't fit a decent auto + HAM fit, because of grid problems. Lachesis more or less has the same problem - runs out of fitting space for a 'gankish' fit.
Noisrevbus Caldari Breams Gone Wild	Posted - 2009.10.11 13:10:00 - [28] Originally by: James Lyrus Lets not forget that a _single_ damp is enough to damp a target's lock range to the point where it can't lock the Arazu. Barring other recons, at least. (Admittedly, the case of e.g. a Rokh, that's quite narrow a threshold) I can only agree with Lyrus here. Let's not forget that a single damp also force smaller tackling ships that can burn into range quickly (ie., interceptors) down to scram range with a single damp. Then consider looking at using the Arazu in an armor tanked gang (with armor RR) and you can all of a sudden setup 3x damps + dual tackle, and sport a larger tank than a Falcon (and still fullfill the breadth of your EWar-role). The same also apply to any ship that fight closer to it's lock range, a single damp can turn his day into a rather gloomy one. On top of everything, no one seem to overstack sensor boosters to deal with damps today (as some still do with ECCM) and damps are not chance-based. Take a moment to consider what damps do to a Scimitar for example, which does not have the habit of hugging the ships it repairs (even a single damp forces a Scimi into a range far smaller than it's manoeuverable comfort-zone). In the right hands and the right gang, an Arazu is a very good ship, and if someone said that Falcons beat Arazu's in the EWar role (EWar being defined in this case as only the ECM vs. Damps), then Arazu beat the Falcon at everything else. From tank to secondary EWar, group utility, damage, target priority etc. etc. It was said before the ECM nerfs: all the Caldari recons did was ECM. Now the gap in primary EWar is smaller and a ship like the Arazu still do everything else much better (while not sacrificing up to 5 slots just to augment it's damps, and not having to fit one damp per racial sensor).
Djakku Gallente Heavens Gate Consortium Distant Drums	Posted - 2009.10.11 15:33:00 - [29] The Arazu is a ship I have learnt to love. There are basically two ways to set it up, either with damps and a nice armor tank, however this gives you little dps and is ideally only used in gang warfare, good for pirating imo, probe out a missioning BC or BS and hold it there until backup arrives. I have a couple of fits on battleclinic which suit this role. fat tank and little dps Some dps. If you are lucky you can use the first fit (200mm rails) to solo n00b ratters, or drunken Ferox pilots. Note The Arazu fails in large gangs and against multiple targets. Use another ship. Alternatively fit scan res damp scripts (always carry them anyway) and team up with a falcon, if the falcon misses a cycle it will take the target forever to lock untill the next ecm cycle. Now, one thing that the Arazu is best at above all over Force Recon ships, is the ability to throw the EWar out the window and fit a fat shield tank and still maintain good dps. I'm not going to post a fit for this, as it's a well known secret. Basically, you can kill Vagabonds with it, and warp cloaked, this is me happy :) It is true that the Arazu is the worst recon of them all, I hope one day they get a nice boost, but im not going to complain about it, just adapt. ------------------------------------------------
Ignitious Hellfury Minmatar Republic Military Skool	Posted - 2009.10.11 15:40:00 - [30] Originally by: Gim Memore An arazu can tackle an enemy 40-50km away as fast as it can lock (which with 1 sb and 1 sig amp, is pretty quick), whereas an inty needs to travel the distance first. If it's landing out of warp or is for another reason staring at 0 speed, then often the arazu could have the tackle when the inty couldn't. Maybe more importantly, this also applies to shutting off mwds. The arazu can land outa warp and shut it off at over 20km. The inty needs to approach and altho it accelerates very quickly, the split second can make the difference between getting the tackle and not. Then of course, the arazu can warp cloaked and probe out targets whereas the inty can't... Yes but lets not forget the targetting delay from cloaking now though either.



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