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theft of wrecks by other players

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Miko Sull	Posted - 2009.10.11 23:43:00 - [1] if a player is doing a mission in 0.5 space or higher, it should be illegal of another player to come into the area where a player is doing a mission and loot and salvage any of the missioning players wrecks... period. the offending player should be able to be targeted by the missioning player and destroyed without any penalty at all being placed upon the player doing the mission. Concord should target the player stealing the missioning players wrecks. this criminal countdown (whatever the current timeframe is) should be less than 2 minutes. so that the missioning player if they see the player who is stealing from them during the mission should be able to try to talk to the offending player and ask them to leave their stuff alone and if the offending player doesn't, then the missioning player should be able, without concord blowing the missioning player's ship up, to kill the offending players ship up and the offending play should NOT get any kill rights because they were acting as a thief. It defeats the purpose of a player to do missions in teh game in empire space if they can't even secure the wrecks that they blow up in the first place. Afterall, empire space is supposed to be controlled space. if a player wants to steal they should only be able to do it in 0.4 space and lower. But, as the game is set up now. it gives any player practically free reign to steal without penalty. a crook and operate with impunity within empire space cause concord will immediately destroy a non-thieving player's ship and allow a thief to get away with whatever they wish to do. this is incredulous to say the least!!!
FISHANDCHIPS	Posted - 2009.10.11 23:52:00 - [2] Edited by: FISHANDCHIPS on 11/10/2009 23:53:37 dear god it gets worse THE WRECKS DONT BELONG TO YOU learn to search first whine later simple GM responses to help you
Hun Jakuza 24th Imperial Guard	Posted - 2009.10.11 23:58:00 - [3] Edited by: Hun Jakuza on 11/10/2009 23:59:19 Originally by: FISHANDCHIPS Edited by: FISHANDCHIPS on 11/10/2009 23:53:37 dear god it gets worse THE WRECKS DONT BELONG TO YOU learn to search first whine later simple GM responses to help you Wrecks belong to who can destroy them without concorded and who can use on wrecks tractor beam. So you are wrong. Whiners!
Lazureus Falcone Minmatar Association of Spacefaring Dirty Basterds	Posted - 2009.10.11 23:59:00 - [4] Originally by: FISHANDCHIPS Edited by: FISHANDCHIPS on 11/10/2009 23:53:37 dear god it gets worse THE WRECKS DONT BELONG TO YOU learn to search first whine later simple GM responses to help you Unles you shoot at them.. then they belong to someone else. CONCORD are jerks that way.
FISHANDCHIPS	Posted - 2009.10.12 00:01:00 - [5] 2009.10.12 The scumsucker is located at Irjunen II - Corporate Police Force Assembly Plant station in the Irjunen system, Suon constellation of The Citadel region. enjoy ps. can you lot cry me a river please i do just love boating
Serge Bastana Gallente GWA Corp	Posted - 2009.10.12 00:13:00 - [6] Edited by: Serge Bastana on 12/10/2009 00:16:10 Here we go again, you do realise that you've just made your existence in EvE very difficult by adding to the number of whines on this topic. Good luck Originally by: Hun Jakuza Edited by: Hun Jakuza on 11/10/2009 23:59:19 Originally by: FISHANDCHIPS Edited by: FISHANDCHIPS on 11/10/2009 23:53:37 dear god it gets worse THE WRECKS DONT BELONG TO YOU learn to search first whine later simple GM responses to help you Wrecks belong to who can destroy them without concorded and who can use on wrecks tractor beam. So you are wrong. Whiners! And no, you're wrong, just like everybody else who makes the same assumption as you. It's something of a broken mechanic I admit, but they've connected the loot can to the junk wrapped around it which is why only certain people can tractor those wrecks, this is what feeds your sense of entitlement and makes you sound like you know what you're talking about when you don't. HTFU ------------------------------------------------ You either need a punch up the throat or a good shag. Nobody round here is offering the second one therefore your choices are limited!
Stupid McStupidson Gallente Hoek Lyne and Sinker	Posted - 2009.10.12 00:17:00 - [7] Actually, there is a glitch with wreck ownership. See..in reality, you really do own everything. All the comments from CCP et al are lies. The next time someone salvages your wrecks without your explicit permission, just start shooting them. Concord will come in and web and scram them, and then neutralize their weapons while you continue blasting away. It's a little documented feature.
CRIMSON NIGHTINGALE Xeno Tech Corp MACHI MISCHIEF	Posted - 2009.10.12 00:25:00 - [8] Miko you should learn to watch your mouth while people are trying to help you not make a fool of yourself but hay i spose you cant help it. Racist emo rage always makes you look good.
Lewyrus Jugis Modo Utopia THE KLINGONS	Posted - 2009.10.12 00:26:00 - [9] No. It works as intented.
Altie McName	Posted - 2009.10.12 00:57:00 - [10] Edited by: Altie McName on 12/10/2009 00:58:09 Originally by: CRIMSON NIGHTINGALE Miko you should learn to watch your mouth while people are trying to help you not make a fool of yourself but hay i spose you cant help it. Racist emo rage always makes you look good. Lol, I smell a nice petition accompanied with a short ban on this one Also, thread reported as there is already one on the front page where the OP and other prominent anti-ninja salvage people slowly leave the thread when they can't, or refuse, to answer some questions that would look negatively upon their own arguments. You could post this on that thread, I'm sure it will go places edit: idiot and forgot the link Linkage --- CCP wants you to HTFU!

Dirty Wizard	Posted - 2009.10.12 03:01:00 - [11] Per CCP Mitnal: Originally by: CCP Mitnal "Our policy on this is extremely clear... Salvaging is a mini-profession within EVE and does not constitute stealing." Per GM Faolchu : Originally by: GM Faolchu Salvaging other peoples wrecks.... This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage. Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up. Per Senior GM Ytterbium : Originally by: GM Ytterbium Players are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will ... and doing so is not considered as an exploit. Per CCP Prism X : Originally by: CCP Prism X Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing. (These quotes are kept handy for your convenience at Ironfleet.com.)
Tiger's Spirit Caldari	Posted - 2009.10.12 05:27:00 - [12] Originally by: Dirty Wizard Per CCP Mitnal: Originally by: CCP Mitnal "Our policy on this is extremely clear... Salvaging is a mini-profession within EVE and does not constitute stealing." Per GM Faolchu : Originally by: GM Faolchu Salvaging other peoples wrecks.... This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage. Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up. Per Senior GM Ytterbium : Originally by: GM Ytterbium Players are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will ... and doing so is not considered as an exploit. Per CCP Prism X : Originally by: CCP Prism X Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing. (These quotes are kept handy for your convenience at Ironfleet.com.) What do you prove it ? Noone speak exploit. Salvaging is mini profession ? Yes, That's it. But that's is the salvaging, not solvaging other wreck is a mini-profession. I told, ninja salvagers=parasites. They need other for kill NPCs or they never can get wrecks for salvage. So.... ninjasalvagers=parasite who steal works of others.
General Paul Atomic Heroes Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2009.10.12 06:34:00 - [13] this is totally unrelated to wreck/can ownership but its about a broken mechanic. If im in a mission and I accidentally remote repair a npc rat (eg guristas bs) it gives me a concord warning. Does this mean I will be concorded for a single miss-click (I wasnt brave enough to try)
Altie McName	Posted - 2009.10.12 06:42:00 - [14] Originally by: Tiger's Spirit I told, ninja salvagers=parasites. They need other for kill NPCs or they never can get wrecks for salvage. So.... ninjasalvagers=parasite who steal works of others. Now try and spin this in your wrong favor Originally by: CCP Dropbear Originally by: Kahega Amielden Don't worry, CCP. We here at Suddenly NinjasÖ are working hard to add social interaction to generic missions And we love you (and others like you) for it! In some weird and wonderful way, groups like yours operate as flag bearers for the full EVE experience, and we wouldn't want to change, or get in the way of that. Also, lol. Link for evidence --- CCP wants you to HTFU!
Lear Hepburn Caldari Ascendant Strategies Inc. The Transcendent	Posted - 2009.10.12 07:03:00 - [15] Edited by: Lear Hepburn on 12/10/2009 07:03:38 Originally by: Miko Sull if a player is doing a mission in 0.5 space or higher, it should be illegal of another player to come into the area where a player is doing a mission and loot and salvage any of the missioning players wrecks... period. They aren't the missioning player's wrecks. Quote: the offending player should be able to be targeted by the missioning player and destroyed without any penalty at all being placed upon the player doing the mission. Concord should target the player stealing the missioning players wrecks. They aren't the missioning player's wrecks. Feel free to take a pot-shot though Quote: this criminal countdown (whatever the current timeframe is) should be less than 2 minutes. so that the missioning player if they see the player who is stealing from them during the mission should be able to try to talk to the offending player and ask them to leave their stuff alone and if the offending player doesn't, then the missioning player should be able, without concord blowing the missioning player's ship up, to kill the offending players ship up and the offending play should NOT get any kill rights because they were acting as a thief. They aren't the missioning player's wrecks. There can be no countdown, nobody is stealing. Quote: It defeats the purpose of a player to do missions in teh game in empire space if they can't even secure the wrecks that they blow up in the first place. Go to a non misson-hub system. Salvage each room as you clear it. Bring a friend/alt to salvage. There's 3 solutions for you right there. Quote: Afterall, empire space is supposed to be controlled space. if a player wants to steal they should only be able to do it in 0.4 space and lower. It's not controlled, it's just less unconctrolled. It's the Wild West, not London. Quote: But, as the game is set up now. it gives any player practically free reign to steal without penalty. a crook and operate with impunity within empire space cause concord will immediately destroy a non-thieving player's ship and allow a thief to get away with whatever they wish to do. Concord do not destroy thieves. You can't be a thief if you're not stealing, and you're not stealing f nobody own the wreck. Since nobody owns it then it's not theft and there are no thieves. The only thieves take loot (as opposed to wrecks), and you do get an aggression timer on them. Quote: this is incredulous to say the least!!! You said it!
DuKackBoon	Posted - 2009.10.12 08:46:00 - [16] Let me guess. A ninja came into your mission, stole everything, you shot him, he came back in a bigger ship an blew you up? Cry me a river, build a bridge and get over it.
Nika Dekaia	Posted - 2009.10.12 09:51:00 - [17] Edited by: Nika Dekaia on 12/10/2009 09:51:04 Originally by: General Paul this is totally unrelated to wreck/can ownership but its about a broken mechanic. If im in a mission and I accidentally remote repair a npc rat (eg guristas bs) it gives me a concord warning. Does this mean I will be concorded for a single miss-click (I wasnt brave enough to try) Yes, you will be concordokkened. This is an intended game mechanic. Before that change, people would come into a mission, rep some NPC BS and wait for the missionrunner to die under stage aggro.
AsheraII	Posted - 2009.10.12 10:05:00 - [18] First of all: they're NOT your wrecks, only the contents are. The composition of the wrecks is free-for-all. Now I'll try to be helpful, to prove how you're dead wrong in your asumption that game mechanics need changing. Simple solution 1: do your missions in 0.4 or lower security areas, so you can shoot the Salvager yourself if you don't like him to Salvage the wrecks in your mission. Simple solution 2: Don't destroy all ships before you start salvaging. Instead, start salvaging as soon as you destroy a ship before moving onto the next. I'm sure you can have more than 3 targets locked at the same time? Just keep one or two target locks assigned for salvaging only. Simple solution 3: Bring a friend or an alt to do the salvaging for you, or hire a professional salvager to tag along with you. Simple solution 4: proper use of ECCM makes you harder to pinpoint for probes, effectively making it harder for a professional salvager to visit your mission site. They will go to the much easier to pinpoint missionsites instead of spending 10 minutes to find yours. Simple solution 5: Blow up the wreckages. Simple solution 6: Kite all the NPC's that you didn't kill yet towards the Salvager, then warp out, then warp back in. Good chance that the Salvager will warp out of the area, since he probably won't have much weaponry to shoot with. There are more methods to handle these situations, but that would require you to think gasp. Seriously, if you're crying about other people coming into your missionspace to salvage wreckages, then this probably isn't the game for you, since you have no understanding of using gamemechanics to your advantage, nor do you have the ability to emotionally cope with a game like this.
Mad Maulkin	Posted - 2009.10.12 13:38:00 - [19] Edited by: Mad Maulkin on 12/10/2009 13:41:36 Jepp, ill just point it out to, since you seem to have missed the point, seeing as you made YET another Thread THey are not yours! so its not stealing. the mechaninc might be broken, but you think its broken the other way, it should acctually be that the loot is free for all as well, since the current wreck mechanic in PVP makes wreck and loot belong to the owner of the blown up ship! So the wreck belongs to the NPC, and they are **ers, so 'em, wreck is free for all. Loot should to! Read my sig, it sums up eve! High sec is not safe, its just safer. Talk to a miner who was canflipped, and let him tell you how effective it was to get criminal flag. 99/100 will tell you it was useless... the one Killfitted hulk will tell you it was great, but then he was also spoiling for a fight, and not acctually mining, making it useless To finish of, i add a small EVEian Proverb: "the most stupid thing you do in EvE, is undock!" Originally by:** CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world
Tiger's Spirit Caldari	Posted - 2009.10.12 15:37:00 - [20] Edited by: Tiger''s Spirit on 12/10/2009 15:40:51 Originally by: DuKackBoon Let me guess. A ninja came into your mission, stole everything, you shot him, he came back in a bigger ship an blew you up? Cry me a river, build a bridge and get over it. Let me guess! A ninja came into your mission, stole your every salvage, you can shot him ? No, because you will be concorded!!!! He stole your salvage items. You wasted your ammo, your time and a parasite steal you. Try to use your brain when you say something fail answer. For the other: He told: So the wreck belongs to the NPC, and they are **ers, so **'em, wreck is free for all. Loot should to! Wrong! If the wreck belongs to NPC why just the killer and his fleet can destroy the wreck without concorded ? Why just they can use on wreck the tractor beam ? Why see on info panel (right click on NPC wreck) the killers ? Because tagged for killers and belongs to him.

fab24 Gallente Order of Anarchy The Laughing Men	Posted - 2009.10.12 16:06:00 - [21] To the OP I just want to say STFU****** simply cuz u fail at eve always whining about your carebear wrecks being salvaged. Trolling is not permitted on the forum - we encourage threads that discuss issues in a constructive and spirited atmosphere. < lmfao...
Dirty Wizard	Posted - 2009.10.12 16:14:00 - [22] Originally by: Tiger's Spirit What do you prove it ? Noone speak exploit. Salvaging is mini profession ? Yes, That's it. But that's is the salvaging, not solvaging other wreck is a mini-profession. I told, ninja salvagers=parasites. They need other for kill NPCs or they never can get wrecks for salvage. So.... ninjasalvagers=parasite who steal works of others. Were you drunk when you wrote this? This is a disgrace to the English language. I don't care if English isn't your first language, if you don't have the most basic understanding of the language you shouldn't even be attempting to use it. This is pure fail.
DuKackBoon	Posted - 2009.10.12 16:15:00 - [23] You are fail if you shoot someone who salvages your wrecks. Also I said "stole everything", which obviously also means "loot the wrecks". 50bucks you got owned by a ninja salvager. PS: I don't even care about loot and salvage, in the time I finish salvaging a L4, I already finished doing 2 more L4s.
Tiger's Spirit Caldari	Posted - 2009.10.12 16:51:00 - [24] Edited by: Tiger''s Spirit on 12/10/2009 16:52:20 Originally by: Dirty Wizard Originally by: Tiger's Spirit What do you prove it ? Noone speak exploit. Salvaging is mini profession ? Yes, That's it. But that's is the salvaging, not solvaging other wreck is a mini-profession. I told, ninja salvagers=parasites. They need other for kill NPCs or they never can get wrecks for salvage. So.... ninjasalvagers=parasite who steal works of others. Were you drunk when you wrote this? This is a disgrace to the English language. I don't care if English isn't your first language, if you don't have the most basic understanding of the language you shouldn't even be attempting to use it. This is pure fail. You tried to speak man with my mother tongue ? You can ? No! Right ? So, this is a disgrace against other peoples of world. Stfu if you dont wanna understand my answer. If you are not enough smart but just trying whinning, you will never understand my answer.
DuKackBoon	Posted - 2009.10.12 17:07:00 - [25] Ninja salvaging is a mini profession. Fact. Wrecks are not considered yours by the server. Fact. You just want empire to be completely safe. FACT. Now please, pick up your stuff and get out of here. Oh and, can I have your stuff?
Carnassial	Posted - 2009.10.13 01:40:00 - [26] There is no such thing as ninja salvaging. A professional salvager might be somewhat faster than the avarage mission runner at salvaging though. Just like a formula 1 driver will probably manage to get ahead of you at the trafficlights :D
Mad Maulkin	Posted - 2009.10.13 08:51:00 - [27] Edited by: Mad Maulkin on 13/10/2009 08:55:38 Originally by: Tiger's Spirit Wrong! If the wreck belongs to NPC why just the killer and his fleet can destroy the wreck without concorded ? Why just they can use on wreck the tractor beam ? Why see on info panel (right click on NPC wreck) the killers ? Because tagged for killers and belongs to him. Yeah, as we was saying earlier, its the broken mechanic of loot containers, there is a container in the wreck, even if its empty, and since the loot belongs to you the wreck is locked, so you can not tractor someones loot can. Make loot free for all, salvage free for all, and the problem is solved So; Wrong! you should be careful in dealing with absolutes when you so epicly put your foot in your mouth. (also its probably a mechanic to avoid griefers comming in to blow all (ops wrote "your wrecks" first, freudian slip there) the wrecks just to be an ass, believe me it would happen.) Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world
Mad Maulkin	Posted - 2009.10.13 08:56:00 - [28] Originally by: Tiger's Spirit You tried to speak man with my mother tongue ? You can ? No! Right ? So, this is a disgrace against other peoples of world. Stfu if you dont wanna understand my answer. If you are not enough smart but just trying whinning, you will never understand my answer. Yes, excellent point, since this forum is in your mother tongue. i see that now, sorry man. also, english is not my first language, and i stil manage to express myself in a clear and (i hope) concise manner. You should slow down the emo rage a bit and type slower, making sure you talk sense, and not just, as the english say it, Hurdygurdy... Also if you ever get screwd around in EvE, Remember my Sig. it helps... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world
CientificaLoca	Posted - 2009.10.13 09:18:00 - [29] Easy sollution. Put Salvager drones XD. Its soo boring go to a wreck that are to 60km with a battleship in lvl 4 missions...
Syfa	Posted - 2009.10.13 09:58:00 - [30] Personally I think ninja-salvagers are scum, and 'high-sp' ninja salvagers that jack loot are worse... why? You can shoot them, they lose a frigate-destroyer hull and come back in a pvp-fit battleship and get a kill on someone who was just trying to protect 'their' loot/salvage. Yes I have had this happen to me, yes I was upset about it. This is something that IMO needs to be changed (even though I do not run missions anymore, I can sympathize with the frustration and 'helplessness' that accompany ninja-salvaging).



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