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Damar Rocarion	Posted - 2009.10.13 11:05:00 - [1] Edited by: Damar Rocarion on 13/10/2009 11:11:30 Edited by: Damar Rocarion on 13/10/2009 11:10:11 I would like to comment on the faction war discussion in Fanfest. I post here because more people likely find it here than in Assembly hall where a somewhat hostile thread was started. I hope to be more constructive here. The main point that people seemed to have was that they are in FW for casual pvp. There was also discussion about faction war missions and plexing, some done by people who had interest for neither. I give my comments here. 1. Plexing: As usual, Ankh was here saying that Caldari npcs are too hard, Gallentes dont plex because of that and so on. None of this has bearing if you actually know plex mechanisms and dont go solo. Pilots like Val Erian know how to it works and do not complain about it. He gets on with the job because he knows he can take those plexes. More again, Caldari had a group effort for taking systems which Chatgris acknowledges in video. So why should Gallente effort require anything else? It is a multi-player game after all. As for alt defenders (aka Emperor Throne Guards), there is nothing wrong with them and if we knew how to make billion isk with them because we knew how the game works, is it our fault? In Ankhs opinion, it probably is but based on his comments, she seems to Eve's equivalent of aim-bot for FPS games. What else, you can consider Emperor Throne Guards as the new people who join FW (and some of them are new players). ETG demonstrates that no matter what your skill level is, there is a place for you in militia (Caldari militia at least) and that yes, you can make a difference as demonstrated by 60k sp alts using npcs to their advantage and taking down Vexor, Zealot and even Abaddon with nothing more than Executioner. Plexes are the best thing in FW if people would just want to look at them. See the acceleration gate? That's the anti-blob mechanism right there. What we need, is more of an incentive to grab them so more people would come over them. I belive best way would be reduce the amount of plexes spawning daily, extend timer in all and give lp reward for capturing them. Now the bulk of militia would have some reason to enter plexes other than hearing "The carebears do them for no reason" in militia chat. It would probably need not be even big reward. Say few hundred for minor plex. 2. FW missions. They are a gold mine and of course people farm them for all their worth. I believe that some nerfing might be in order. Simple solution here would be that repeated declining would give standing hit while failing mission does not = mission expires in 12h period. So this way people cannot cherry pick but if they land to pirate hell-hole and fail mission, it would not have other repercussions than missing isk and LP. 3. Casual pvp. Well, some people want casual pvp, some people make objectives for themselves. I dont know if flying in blob from OMS to Tama is casual pvp. I plex with clear objective in mind and in 24h period me and my alts were in following kills: 2 x hurricane, curse, harbinger, Proteus, thrasher, stabber, rupture and vagabond. All these were with relatively small gangs and fun was had. Naturally, I got couple more kills outside plexing gang as well. Damar Rocarion Brigadier General
Zetler Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2009.10.13 11:07:00 - [2] Im PERV and I approve this message!
Louis deGuerre Gallente The Rise of The Dragon Knights Void Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.13 11:11:00 - [3] Nothing new here, please move along. --- Sol: A microwarp drive? In a battleship? Are you insane? They arenÆt built for this! Clear Skies - The Movie
EVIL SYNNs Wrath of Fenris Gentlemen's Club	Posted - 2009.10.13 11:23:00 - [4] Edited by: EVIL SYNNs on 13/10/2009 11:23:33 /me yawns, looks at Damar and laughs... Longer timers oops broke forum//. just imagine LOTS of heheheheheheheheh#'s
X Gallentius Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2009.10.13 11:33:00 - [5] 1. She is right to point out that a 2.1 billion isk payout is a great incentive to have alts do plexes throughout the day. Plexes are extremely boring if opponent decides to not engage (which is the majority of the time). 2. Agreed, but in the end nerfing the missions will just keep the isk/lp ratio high which means tons of isk will still be made. Key factors: 1. Low sec keeps carebears out, and 2. FW specific items keeps out competition. (see Sisters probes out of Aeschee for as a direct comparison). 3. Plenty of casual pvp all over the place. Val Erian shows that as well. Bottom line is that Pervs are the smartest corp in FW. They will milk any system (and rightly so) for all it's worth. :) If the 2.1 billion isk payout could be made for Gallente then the map would be the other way around. We've already seen Dark-Rising members admit that they run plexes for Caldari to get that $2.1 billion isk payout.
Unfamed II Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2009.10.13 11:35:00 - [6] Give some minor reward for having the currently useless occupancy. Like discount when using repair services or something minor like that. No penalty for not having it. Needs something else also, this wouldn't get me to do the plexing grind again. Reset cal-gal systems and try if that works. Remove ECM (change to damps or something) from caldari npc's inside the plexes. Maybe even remove missiles (this is stupid, RP RP RP) from the npc's while at it. Reduce missile spam from npc's a bit at least. Make killing all npc's a requirement for capping a plex. Add more storyline newsitems, lolrp again. I like reading them tho. Nerf LP payout for fw missions, boost LP for kills. Maybe add +10% to LP from kills if they're made inside plexes. This seems to be stupid and artificial boost to plexing but whatever. All of the above are rather marginal, but combined it would be a start. Originally by: Sandslinger of CA So this wasn't a straightoff logoffski from our point of view, rather a tactical manoeuvre
Bad Messenger Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2009.10.13 11:36:00 - [7] 10 minutes seems to be to little for people to come pvp in plex. You are too late for pvp most of the time. So it is good idea to reduce plex count and extend timers ( same amount of timesink ) but people has enough time time to go pvp 10+ jumps.
EVIL SYNNs Wrath of Fenris Gentlemen's Club	Posted - 2009.10.13 11:39:00 - [8] Originally by: Unfamed II Nerf LP payout for fw missions, boost LP for kills. Maybe add +10% to LP from kills if they're made inside plexes. This seems to be stupid and artificial boost to plexing but whatever. Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist
DARTHxFREE State Protectorate	Posted - 2009.10.13 11:40:00 - [9] Let ECCM & ECCM implants affect NPC jam chance, 1 problem solved. /join Cheeze & Whine Club
Unfamed II Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2009.10.13 11:42:00 - [10] Originally by: X Gallentius 1. She is right to point out that a 2.1 billion isk payout is a great incentive to have alts do plexes throughout the day. Plexes are extremely boring if opponent decides to not engage (which is the majority of the time). Just to let you know, I haven't even done that cosmos implant thing myself. Mostly because I don't think even 2b is reward enough for spending time in the plexes with some 60k sp alt. Tells something about how interesting the plexes currently are. I did run some fw missions even before the current system, they sent me out to odd places which was quite ok. Had to even trick some pirates to do the missions for me a few times. Lol ransoming missions items. "please don't loot the field commander" F Me 5 mins poast timer. Originally by: Sandslinger of CA So this wasn't a straightoff logoffski from our point of view, rather a tactical manoeuvre
DARTHxFREE State Protectorate	Posted - 2009.10.13 11:51:00 - [11] Originally by: EVIL SYNNs Originally by: Unfamed II Nerf LP payout for fw missions, boost LP for kills. Maybe add +10% to LP from kills if they're made inside plexes. This seems to be stupid and artificial boost to plexing but whatever. Yes, nerf missions, maybe not the LP but the decline part, and buff kill LP & plex's. Like some one already poasted, decrease amount of plex's, increase incentive to plex and increase the timer so that every plex is a potential battlefield.
Nidhiesk	Posted - 2009.10.13 12:10:00 - [12] so the problem here that the op seems to be pointing is the blob is amazingly huge and the small gang warfare are very rare. I don't see any problem there but like you said, gallente dont plex because of the npc's inside. I don't see any problem with the npc inside. The problem is when players from any faction gets inside and only 1 side dont get targeted. Thats the problem and not the npc. From the RP point of view would you make a complex empty and unguarded ? of course not. theres some valuables there in terms of RP. To fix this is that it depends how activates the plex - it should be on the opposite side. ie: if caldari finds a plex in fliet, gal npc should be there since its the caldari faction who activated it. this should increase small fleets and small warfare gangs since you would probably need more dps and more people to kill the guy + npc's to deal with. Same thing goes with gallente. if they activate of find a plex in tama then caldari faction npc should be there.
Kade Jeekin Kinda'Shujaa	Posted - 2009.10.13 12:28:00 - [13] Get rid of FW missions. Agents send people to plexes instead. No standing penalty for failure, but penalty for refusal Plexes can still be scanned for too Give LP for plex capture/defend Require all NPC's to be eliminated to allow capture More LP for kills --------------------------------------- Outface the depths of evil with clarity ---------------------------------------
Brutalis Furia Minmatar OCForums	Posted - 2009.10.13 12:59:00 - [14] There were some really good points made at the FW roundtable at fanfest. One that stands out as a kind of no-brainer (at least for me) is motivation. Why get involved in FW, what's in it for me? For the majority of the attendees at the discussion it was the casual PvP and for others it was RP, but both mentioned FW as a place where the PvP side of Eve was introduced to noobs. There was a workshop on leadership that comes in to play here too. FW, as a place where the uninitiated congregate, is an important place for the more experienced players to be, even if not for their immediate benefit. We need to offer the noobs a milder PvP experience to cut their teeth on with proper leadership from the more seasoned players, and we need to offer the more experienced players a reason beyond the long term benefits of such an arrangement. Those, of course, being a more educated fleet of pilots in nullsec PvP. So what incentives would make an impact on the more seasoned players? Money. I'm not talking about LP or even direct ISK, but an income source. My idea is this: enable corps (and members) who have signed up for FW to place POS's in systems controlled by their respective factions without charter cost. Not enough? Allow them the capability to manage a system as if it were theirs through sov. That includes all the possibilities inherent in the new investment/upgrade system unveiled for Dominion, the ability to mine moons (I'm thinking crap moons by default, but if they're upgradeable...), and put any array up - ok, not cap ship construction, but... All these perks can't come without cost however. I'm thinking the corp (or member) standing would continually fall at a slow rate (I'm thinking equivalent to 1-2 FW actions per day) and you'd need a standing similar to what you need now top put up a POS in hisec. The result would be that the more experienced corps involved in FW would be enticed to set up industrial operations in hisec (thus choosing a side) and fight for that side to keep their operation, well, operational. If their standing were to drop below what was needed or the actual sov of the system change, their operation would offline or worse. For the noobs, I'd offer faction equipment through the FW faction's LP/VP store. I'd actually make this the only way to get faction BPC's, as well. That would be incentive for those not involved with an industrial corp but are interested in flying faction ships.
Veshta Yoshida Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.10.13 13:00:00 - [15] Factional Warfare is the only role-playing addition to the game that CCP has made since the events department was shut down. The idea that the Empires are waging war through the use of us poddies could be the biggest thing since sliced bread, yet it is treated by pretty much everyone as a standing whoring fest and/or a giant free wardec. By the by: Red vs. Blue has proven that far more can be done with far less so saying that FW = PvP is largely invalid. The RP potential in an all out proxy war between Empires is so massive that I am more than a little disappointed with the input given so far. A few medals here and there and some stupidly pointless "capture this system" bulletins is all the attention they have given FW to date .. makes me wonder if they even want that annoying RPG tagged onto their MMO. Making system occupancy have meaning, equalizing the NPCs abilities (remove eWar entirely if need be) and fixing plexing are the minimum requirements for FW going forward. The CSM has already voted unanimously to fix some of the things that are essential, but there has yet to surface anything about CCP's intentions/plans for FW or if they will just fix the gaping holes and let it rot like they did COSMOS back in the day. As for mission balancing: I have poured literally billions into this war and will now finally be able to make ends meet thanks to relatively easy LP. If any restrictions are made to acquisition of said LP then make all Navy vessels exclusive to FW stores so that it is not just a huge ISK sink.
Gallente Citizen1	Posted - 2009.10.13 13:09:00 - [16] I don't think FW should have anything to do with word NPC or making isk/lp. Capturing systems should be only for roleplay reasons. Have a scoreboards and such as the reward if you need some. Allow alliances to join FW. If someone wardec corp in the militia, have them be hostile to the entire milita and the navy. Alliance in FW and militia are two separate things.
Greg6	Posted - 2009.10.13 15:37:00 - [17] OK so it seems we can agree on the major problem: running plexes is boring. We disagree on all kinds of other things (rat ecm isn't really a issue. I only started playing right as the last Gal systems fell, have maxed out my Gal rank, never ran a defensive plex and haven't been bothered by the ecm after I figured it out, about a week after I'd been plexing. Pack some ECCM, FOF missiles, or just tank the entire thing and stop caring if you've been jammed or not. Honestly, I think folk complain about the rats because, at heart, Caldari are simply better at plexing than the Gals are. After getting their asses kicked, for months, the Gallente have started to make excuses. Just like that fox that couldn't get the grapes. I'm also not a big fan of giving lp for plexing or otherwise increasing the rewards for doing so. I don't play a game to do boring things hoping for an ingame pay out. That's too much like work, frankly. (I can't even be bothered to milk the current FW LP isk cow that everyone else is attached to ATM. Too much boring jumping around, cycling through mission offers, and the like for me.) The object should not be to bribe folk into enduring plexing but to make plexing itself more enjoyable. So, what does just about everyone enjoy about plexing? The PVP of course. Thus I'd propose an adjustment that maximized that, rather than offering candy to those willing to put up with the current system. I like the notion of reducing the number of battlefields but think doing so by reducing the number of plexes spawned daily is going about it in the wrong way. Part of the reason why plexing is boring now is because one can plex forever and never make a system vulnerable. Reducing the number of daily spawns will only increase the perceived futility of plexing. (Searching for plexes is as boring as running them, in the absence of PVP as far as I'm concerned) I suggest reducing the number of battlefields by changing the system for flipping a system somewhat. Wars have a tendency to be directed from above,and I'd make that a little more true in FW. Keep everything as it is, but add in an additional mechanic for flipping systems. One that is NPC generated. While the ongoing efforts continue every three days I'd have CCP announce that "FW systems X, Y, and Z have become hot spots in the war." Over the following three days there would always be plexes in those systems. Close one, and another opens. After three days of this, the side that ran the most plexes in those systems gets occupancy of those systems. Kills continue to give LP but kills in those, "hot," systems give a bonus. Say a 25% bonus, just to pull a number out of my butt. If you wanted to get tricky you could also say every billion isk lost during the three day battle reduced a sides total number of plexes taken by 1 or so. Make the combat even more meaningful. This would break the blob and provide ship balanced fights in those plexes. It would identify a place to go to fight, getting rid of the stupid random roam up and down the tama pipes. it would give FW members the thing they joined FW for, easy and fast PVP, while still preserving the player impact on world events feature of Eve. It would make changing lines of travel so that gate camps would be useful somewhere other than on those heavily traveled tama pipes. And it would give us fights that had some in game meaning, with every fight adding to the ease or possibility of capturing a plex and adding to the total to determine occupancy with a set end time in sight, reducing the feelings of futility currently rampant around plexing. And that's my modest proposal. :)
Veshta Yoshida Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.10.13 17:00:00 - [18] Originally by: Gallente Citizen1 <snip> Allow alliances to join FW. If someone wardec corp in the militia, have them be hostile to the entire milita and the navy. Alliance in FW and militia are two separate things. Alliances in FW would turn it into a playground for them, lowsec would become a warzone of alliances too chicken to risk their 0.0 assets in a "real" war for sovereignty. The casual nature would evaporate before you could spell out mega-blob. If a 3rd party decides to interfere with what is essentially one of the Empires and war-decs a single corp it should indeed count as if the entire damn militia+ally is declared upon. Originally by: Greg6 <snip>Pack some ECCM, FOF missiles, or just tank the entire thing and stop caring if you've been jammed or not.<snip> ECM employed by NPC's cannot be countered, it is based on a static chance per NPC. The spam in Caldari plexes make it almost impossible to not get jammed constantly (or so I hear).. think Guristas missions but with even more NPC's using ECM. And gunboats have some difficulty using those FoF's, not good to force people to use just a handful of ships to get things done I don't like the arbitrary system(s) being announced as "hotspot" .. some systems are so far removed from everything that it will be pretty useless, something CCP found out with their attempts early on in the war. Rather than trying to make plexing work in conjunction with combat, I think the best thing to do is decouple the two. If combat is somehow made to directly influence occupancy, the blobs will grow immensely. - Make system occupancy determine who can dock in system. Alternately deny use of all services in hostile occupied space .. like when a 0.0 outpost is captured. - Put the lazy writers back to work and make RP news bulletins when systems flip and during periods of stale-mates .. trench warfare is boring, make it at least look like we are doing something other than wasting time. - Allow missions to generate low amount of VP for a system when system is 3/4 or more deep. Will function as the hotspots you crave and remove a lot of the frustration caused by waiting for the last-plex-before-flip. - Timer rubberbands when a person leaves range. Starts counting backwards until reset to zero. Acts as penalty for the people who warps from plex-to-plex to evade destruction (small but needed). Only a couple of combat related proposal if the two are to be kept separated. + (lifted from loot revamp proposal, use FW as testing ground before cluster wide implementation) Amount of loot dropped from PvP kills in warzones (ie. systems with occupancy) dependent on number of people on mail. Solo kills yield a minmum 50% of modules dropped, scale down the more people are on mail down to 0%. Should get more pirates in on the action as well, so double win. + Double amount of LP awarded for kills inside plexes/missions to encourage people to use appropriate ships instead of constant "as heavy as can be" on gates.
Ulstan	Posted - 2009.10.13 17:11:00 - [19] Biggest problem with plexes is how buggy they are. You shouldn't be able to take them in WCS/cloaked frigates. Make killing the enemy NPC's mandatory, make the timer not tick if there are no uncloaked ships around. Fix all the various bugs with them. Biggest problem with FW overall is how utterly pointless system occupancy/sovereignty is. The FW missions and LP store were a step in the right direction, as were LP for kills, but this doesn't seem to be working quite right.
Bad Messenger Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2009.10.13 17:12:00 - [20] Originally by: Greg6 ...stuff... And that's my modest proposal. :) People like you are Gallentes biggest problem. You are not willing to do boring part of the game you want just all fruits of it. People like me and Damar wants that there is bigger goals like taking all systems. Caldari used more than 6 month to take all systems. We developed tactics to take those and tested and recruited and motivated people. This system has room for casual players if you manage to organize things. Most of the things ankh listed in that fw video was/is caldari and galletne propaganda. Our goal was bigger than get instant pvp and fun. We wanted to do the impossible thing and conquer Old Man Star. We took it and then we just kept going and took all systems. last 20 systems was kinda boring because gallete gave up and there was not much resistance. It is good that there is that plexing thing for people who play this game more than normal people. You can defence plex alone or capture minors and mediumd quite easily by solo major plexes can be too hard for most of us to solo ( no matter if it gallente or Caldari plex ). But taking systems is so big job that you need lot of people to do that 23/7 to get results. Plexing can be boring but every time when gallente has 'major attack' going on it is fun, we get lot of pvp. You just need goal to take systems back, and take plexes and pvp for those no matter what it cost. You just have to accept losses if you manage to take plex. Taking plexes matters not losses or kills, so fight for plex not for nice killboard stats. Taking systems is best way to force enemy to fight, atleast it should be. So ccp should made it so, make it worth to fight for plexes and systems.
EVIL SYNNs Wrath of Fenris Gentlemen's Club	Posted - 2009.10.13 18:03:00 - [21] I have nothing but respect to Pervs and the 22nd for what they have done. Honestly, I gave them a big shout out at Fanfest. And how they could motivate people where there was no motivational reward was fantastic (the real meaning of the word). If there was some reason for us not wanting you to have the systems (when I say us, you know what I mean). But thats the 100 dollar prize. What can CCP do to make us want to fight you in plexes, BUT WITHOUT EFFECTING EVERYONE ELSE in low sec that don't do FW. We left FW cause we couldn't afford it, just as they made it profitable..TYPICAL EVIL Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist
Greg6	Posted - 2009.10.13 18:12:00 - [22] LOL. Nope I'm not willing to pay CCP in order to do boring things in game. Staggering that, I know but there it is. In terms of the, "eccm doesn't work on caldari rats," line I've heard it before but it doesn't jibe with my observations. I've found when I'm packing ECCM I'm jammed out by the rats about 1/3 as often as when I don't have ECCM on board. Furthermore when I have ECCM I'm about never jammed out more than twice in a row. And I've ran a lot of plexes. Of course these days I don't pack ECCM at all. FOF missiles, speed/sig/shield tank, and sniper fits means I can either kill the rats outside of their jamming range, kill 'em even while jammed, or ignore them and let them jam me, depending on the plex size. Either way, it's really not that big of a deal. As far as the solutions go, I think the presence of the size restricted plexes and the fact that multiple hot spots would be declared would both work to diminish the presence of blobs in those hot spots. Minors would count as much as majors, as they currently do, and so folk would need to bring ships of all sizes. Furthermore there would still be the vast majority of FW space working along just as it is, for those who prefer to be completely self driven. :) In terms of adding rewards or punishments to post plexing effects, neither of those make plexing itself more fun. Again, I'm not looking for candy to reward boring efforts. I'm looking to make the efforts themselves less boring. It's a game, after all, and as such it ought to be fun, not boring. Call me stupid but I don't give my money to entertainment companies to be bored, even if they give me a cookie at the end of that boring effort.
Ronin Reborn Wrath of Fenris Gentlemen's Club	Posted - 2009.10.13 19:20:00 - [23] So, the number of hands raised in that video for pvp was the majority of the room while the number of hands raised for plexes and missioning were the visible minority. But here we are talking about boosting FW by tweaking plexes and missions. All I really have to say about plexes is untill there is a solid reason to do them, plexes are just another lame PVE activity with subpar payout. The whole not docking in systems occupied by a FW opponent doesn't make sense to me either. Tama, for example, is a Caldari sov, Caldari occupied system...with a Minmitar station in it. Why would Minmitar not allow Gallente to dock, but allow Caldari to do so? The FW corp stations I'm with you though. Gallente should never be able to dock at State Protectorate stations ect. Hell you could even have those stations switch over to the conquering factions FW corp and seed new agents of the approriate level. For instance if Gallente took Ladister which has a FW station, with a lvl 4 FW agent there, the station would be a FDU station. When Caldari take it back the station switches over to STPRO as does the agent. You're now competing over both a tactical advantage (docking rights) and a isk source which doesn't affect people outside FW (FW mission agents). Seems like as good a reason as any to plex, albeit only in certain systems.
Bad Messenger Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2009.10.13 20:02:00 - [24] Plexes are best thing that FW could give to pvp, those limit blobbing and give quite even matches because most of the plexes limit shipsize that fit in. When you are tackled in plex you can not dock or jump so it is ofter fight to the death, ofcourse you can try to warp away if you can. Warping to zero was cool thing, we liked it beacause you do not have bubles in lowsec how you could force people to fight, still there is warp to zero when you use accelleration gate. All i trying to say is that ccp should try to get more fights in plexes, 'normal' pvp you can do everywhere but plexes are the coolest thing in FW for pvp. lets say that you get one million lp for capturing major plex, think how much people want to fight for it
Emily Evil	Posted - 2009.10.13 20:09:00 - [25] Drawing FW pvp into plexes would only work if plex gates where restricted for people outside the FW corps.
Trebor DeCaldar Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.10.13 20:21:00 - [26] Make the gate sentries and station guns do OMGWTFLOLROFLCOPTERWTFBBQPWNAGE damage and you will force the battles to the plexes where they are supposed to be anyway. Tada, you've just given the PvPers a reason to plex... cause they have to go there to PvP. Also, make it so the plexes only spawn in 'front line' systems. And make it so that they are there 23/7 until the system is captured and is no longer 'front line'. Seems the only time can find a plex is on Saturday's when I hop on just after DownTime. Any other tiem during the week, they are no where to be found in a contested system. Originally by: Hoo Is Siigari lost a ship... In other news, water is wet, fire is hot, and bacon is delicious
DARTHxFREE State Protectorate	Posted - 2009.10.13 20:51:00 - [27] Originally by: Bad Messenger ... lets say that you get one million lp for capturing major plex, think how much people want to fight for it Capping plex's doesn't require pvp, I think this kinda system would incourage ninja/blob farming to yield resistancless LP. Perhaps your 1m LP for flipping a system, which is done threw plexing, but for plexing it's self to have no capping reward to stop solo/blob farming, but to give increased LP/kill in the Plex it's self. ATM. Gallente would have incentive to fight for the 1m LP system flip, and Caldari would have the advantage of having Caldari Navy in every plex, which as damar coninualy brags about increase's plexual performance by ALOT. /join Cheeze & Whine Club
olzi Caldari Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2009.10.13 21:31:00 - [28] Very interesting fanfest video, even got to put faces on some of the FW competition. :) Good ideas all around, but the first thing I think we need to get rid of is all the bugs the plexes have. Invisible countdowns, timers counting by themselves, npc's either attacking the friendly pilots, or not attacking enemy pilots at all etc. I don't think CCP realizes how often these plexes are bugged, typically our corporation sees this happening everyday, most often the timer will countdown to zero and nothing happens. All you can do at that point is wait next to the timer until the capture message appears at local. Occupancy should count for something, completely denying docking rights for stations to enemy might be too much, but maybe limited stations services could be one option ? So when is Wolfy returning to FW ?
Diamaht Nevain Gallente Avatar Union	Posted - 2009.10.14 00:01:00 - [29] Edited by: Diamaht Nevain on 14/10/2009 00:02:01 Guys honestly, can anyone really say their isn't an inbalance? It really is fact that you can solo a plex or a mission as a caldari. People keep disputing this because they don't want to lose their cash cow. Forget about the COSMOS stuff, just speed tank a caldari lvl IV faction mission and get 15k LP for about 15-20 mins of work (mostly travel) then buy a navy raven for 150k lp and sell it for 400 to 500 mil. If you want standing speed tank a bunch of plexes. Honestly I'm thinking to go caldari for a couple weeks just to make a few bil. If you need money people, do this while it lasts; you know it will be changed soon and 100 rage quit threads will pop up on the forums. =============================== Two words: Internet Spaceships
Beltantis Torrence NoD Imperium	Posted - 2009.10.14 00:51:00 - [30] Few things. 1) Someone needs to explain to me how to make 2.1 billion isk off defensive plexing per day. I just don't see it. 2) People don't fight over space because there's no point in doing so. I think the vast majority of people in FW are in it for the PVP without quotas and without all the BS you get in a 0.0 PVP corp. I get a free war dec essentially and some opportunities to put myself into a number of different engagements while still maintaining the ability to go absent from game for a month without having to deal with corp/alliance drama over it. 3) Regarding blobbing, to be honest the view looks the same from both sides. Personally I accept it because what is quoted as blobbing in FW (20 guys vs 17) is not like blobbing in 0.0 (100 guys vs 20). 4) I hate to beat a dead horse over this or join the "level 4's are overpowered" crowd but the reality is that its significantly more difficult to make more money doing FW related activities than it is to grind isk in wormholes or empire missions. Anyone smart is going to take the safest route to make the most money in the shortest period of time. If you're going to be bored and shooting at NPC's why would you risk breaking even at the end of the day if you get blobbed?

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