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The mistakes that carebears make.

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Typhado3 Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Aeternus.	Posted - 2009.10.16 08:41:00 - [31] OP's post is so full of crap I don't even know where to begin. ------------------------------ Just a crazy inventor ccp fix mining agent missions % pls
Sandeman Reserve	Posted - 2009.10.16 09:13:00 - [32] 'cause heaven forbid someone might actually like to play a game the way they want to enjoy themselves. S. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iv5lCuv1w8
Vikura Gallente	Posted - 2009.10.16 09:23:00 - [33] Eve without carebears! Now that's something i would like to see! No invention = No T2 stuff. No mission runners/ratters = No named items / materials. No miners = No materials. No materials = No ships or modules! Ooh what a wonderful world that would be, everyone flying around in pods And well, i find OP's post to be little too much generalisation, not every carebear is like that. Some carebear to make the losses they take in PvP and so on. I'm a carebear and i don't think PvP would cost too much, it's just that i don't like it as much as other activities in the game. You know, eve is sandbox -style game, there is no right or wrong thing to do in-game. However, if you start to pay my monthly fees, you're free to tell me what to do and how to do it in this game.
Lifelongnoob Caldari Final Conflict UK	Posted - 2009.10.16 09:37:00 - [34] Originally by: HeavyUnstable PowerWorm First mistake: They start training industry skills... first mistake this pvp'er makes this pvp'er assumes all barge pilots are carebears when in fact most are just industry alts of other pvp players, mine are actually a mix of both... but then i like pvp. also op fails cos most barges cant even lock their agressor due to that stupid max 30km (with full skills) locking range all barges have.... barge is dead before it can set its drones on its agressor.......(no having your drones out and set to agressive mode is not always a viable option if you keep getting disconnected a lot) t1 barges cannot tank whatsoever ... so one shot kills is all they are... noob ships are probably harder to kill cos at least they can move reasonably fast.
Tippia Raddick Explorations Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2009.10.16 09:58:00 - [35] Edited by: Tippia on 16/10/2009 09:59:08 Originally by: Vikura Eve without carebears! Now that's something i would like to see! No invention = No T2 stuff. No mission runners/ratters = No named items / materials. No miners = No materials. No materials = No ships or modules! None of that requires carebears, though. That's another mistake they often make: they think they're indispensable. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Vikura Gallente	Posted - 2009.10.16 10:18:00 - [36] Originally by: Tippia None of that requires carebears, though. That's another mistake they often make: they think they're indispensable. That depends totally how one defines the "carebear", as it varys from game to game and from people to people.
Tippia Raddick Explorations Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2009.10.16 10:28:00 - [37] Originally by: Vikura That depends totally how one defines the "carebear", as it varys from game to game and from people to people. True enough. From the tips given in the OP, it seems that "carebear" in this thread is someone who have never seen ship-to-ship combat because they are too unfamiliar with the concepts to ever dare try it, and thus never get familiar with it, which only keeps the myths and misconceptions alive. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Youri Civire The Protei	Posted - 2009.10.16 10:29:00 - [38] Edited by: Youri Civire on 16/10/2009 10:35:43 Edited by: Youri Civire on 16/10/2009 10:34:42 Quote: You will be getting somewhere when you break out of the boundaries of what the mission hands you and challenge yourself. When you enter combat against another player, the adrenaline spikes, the hand shakes and you defeat them. Once you have gone there, it will be impossible to go back to the hamster's wheel. It will be impossible; like going back to a black and white TV after a life of watching Color HDTV. You are so right on that one. Ive done missions all my eve career i just recently got in to pvp. I used to think that low sec was really dangerous and all pvp'rs were scarry elitists. Nothing was further from the truth ive never had so much fun in eve as i'm having now. Id say too all of you carebears: Try it buy some ships you can afford to lose. Check battleclinic for a good fit for your ship. Give your own spin on that fit cuz nothing is better than having an ace up your sleeve in pvp. Start thinking outside of the box. And learn how to use the directional scanner. The first few days will be a learning expierence like you wouldn't belive. After you get your first few kills i think you cant be arsed to do a mission ever again. And after you've had a fight talk to the people you fought with. When you lost try to get intel of them on how you lost or what they would have done in your situation. If you won tell your "victim" Good fight! Most people that pvp wont point and laugh at you when you lose only when you cry about it.... PS And please loose your first fight! You have to get over the idear that loosing your ship is the worse thing that can happen realy just do a fight to the dead against a friend or a corp mate and learn to get over that initial "OOOHH CRAP" feeling. Do it and you'll never look at eve in the same way.
Johan Sabbat Blue Republic	Posted - 2009.10.16 10:37:00 - [39] Originally by: Arch Law Btw, half of the average population has IQ under 100 by definition, so something unable to be done by half the playerbase isn't that stringent of a standard. 70 is a better number since that's the borderline for mental retar.dation. I can tell which half of the population you're in... Just think about 5 people with IQs of 140, 90, 90, 90, 90 respectively. Tell me the average IQ and how many are less than the average. /fake edit, I'm hung over and taking sweeties from children seems like a good idea.
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2009.10.16 10:59:00 - [40] Originally by: Rells ...long post... I thought you'd rage quit? Didn't realise you were playing again. \o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF 2008! \o/ >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<<
Bruno George	Posted - 2009.10.16 11:32:00 - [41] Good post. Once upon a time I played a game called Eve and had a Caracal and ran lvl 2 missions.... Once you break on over to the other side you truely are free of the grind. Now I am the Cerb that is tanking your onyx and 4 stealth bombers as my fleet warps to me to deliver your last exit.....
Azirapheal Amarr 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.10.16 11:36:00 - [42] Originally by: Kai Lae You forgot the most important one Rells: A large majority of carebears don't want to learn how to defend themselves or seemingly can't learn. They are unsuited to any enviroment where potential combat against themselves is involved. No matter how many times you tell them they won't listen and will just get beaten again and again in the same ways. This is why the overall objective of dominion that CCP has - mass moving people to 0.0 from empire - is doomed to failure. Most people in empire unfortunately have no place being anywhere near 0.0. They mentally are totally unsuited for it. If they were suited for it, they'd be there already, it's not like 0.0 corporations are always looking to pick up new members that "get it". Then again, considering that large scale fights are already straining CCP's servers to the limit, it's best that things mostly stay the way they are. All a huge inrush would do would be to make fights move in 0 FPS and cause mass fustration. from what i see dominion will be a boon for small gang/fleet operations more than anything and will actually encourage multiple smaller fleets Originally by: Azirapheal i never ever thought id live to see the day.... that titans were nerfed for being FOTM HAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA Originally by: CCP Zymurgist SoonÖ
Vanzatoarea	Posted - 2009.10.16 11:56:00 - [43] Originally by: Vikura Eve without carebears! Now that's something i would like to see! No invention = No T2 stuff. No mission runners/ratters = No named items / materials. No miners = No materials. No materials = No ships or modules! Ooh what a wonderful world that would be, everyone flying around in pods And well, i find OP's post to be little too much generalisation, not every carebear is like that. Some carebear to make the losses they take in PvP and so on. I'm a carebear and i don't think PvP would cost too much, it's just that i don't like it as much as other activities in the game. You know, eve is sandbox -style game, there is no right or wrong thing to do in-game. However, if you start to pay my monthly fees, you're free to tell me what to do and how to do it in this game. carebear doesnt mean someone who mines/missions/invents/builds etc this is the first thing that should be highlighted carebear is not someone who is risk adverse. any sane person attempts to achieve stuff with as little risk as possible this is the second crucial point carebear is someone who refuses to take matters into his own hands and resorts to NPC`s and whining when things dont co his way if concord and npc corps would be gone noone in eve would be ever labeld as a carebear
Capt Fossil Gallente	Posted - 2009.10.16 11:56:00 - [44] Originally by: Rells Well after a couple of rambunctious thread about PvP'ers and how they are wrong about eve, I thought I would have a bit more fun and talk about the mistakes they make in Eve. I would, however, like to take a moment to thank the participants of the other threads for their thoughtful opinions and those PvP'ers that kept us all entertained with their notion of self importance so high that they feel we should all care what they think of us personally. Without such people these forums would be far less fun and less of a draw for killing time and wasting my employer's money and time. Speaking of killing there are so many traps that PvP'ers fall into.... adda adda more nauseous opinionated crap There, fixed that for you. Let's see, you Rage quit, don't play the game anymore, and you are so unimportant in your job that all you have to do at work is come up with this crap. And I am supposed to care about your opinion?
FlameGlow Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.16 12:03:00 - [45] Edited by: FlameGlow on 16/10/2009 12:04:22 PVE fit and PVE specialized ships rarely stand any chance against a pvp-fit ship even of smaller class. Marauders? loljammed Mining barges/industrials/freighters? - lolnoguns Mission/ratting ships - lookit dem resistance holes _____________ I don't care what is nerfed, as long as it's not my "undock" button.
Kai Lae Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.10.16 12:03:00 - [46] Originally by: Azirapheal from what i see dominion will be a boon for small gang/fleet operations more than anything and will actually encourage multiple smaller fleets Possibly. But CCP's push to empty out portions of empire to 0.0 is a pipe dream, as large portions of empire can't handle 0.0, and more importantly, don't want to handle it. This is actually quite important, you can't force people to play in a way they don't want to play. They have to want to go out to 0.0, you can't force them. All the digitalcommunist bullcrap ranting about highsec missions aside, even if there weren't L4 missions in highsec, it wouldn't make mission runners go to lowsec or 0.0 to run missions, because they want to run their missions in the security of empire and not deal with the chance that something bad might happen to them as they go about their eve life. This is why you keep seeing these complaint threads over various issues popping up over the years - highsec suiciding, wardec mechanics, etc - from players of this type, indignant that they were killed in pvp when they didn't consent to any fighting. Explaining to them how to take action to defend themselves is useless because they don't feel that they should have to, and mostly don't want to listen to you because that's not their playstyle. They don't want to learn how to defend themselves because they won't want to fight others - ever. This drives a lot of pvp types nuts because if the shoe was on their foot they know multiple, easy ways to prevent the situations that the "carebear" type complain so bitterly about - and they can't comprehend why carebear types can't learn from their advice. Many just get the impression that there must be something mentally defective in people of this type (one of the definitions of insanity is doing the same things over and over again and expecting different results each time) and subsequently tend to treat them all with at least some level of scorn. Since carebears can't conceive the cause of this disdain - they're just trying to play the game the way they think it should be played - this causes resentment back towards the pvp players. This has been true as long as I can recall now, the same general outlooks on the game in conflict with each others. PvP players need to learn that carebear types just won't change, and they honestly think that if they could get all PvP to be consentual then eve would be perfect. Carebears need to learn that EvE is different than any other game out there, that power in EvE really DOES flow from the barrel of a gun, and if you don't have any, you're at the mercy of the first guy with one who decides to attempt to control your actions. Not only that, it's designed that way and isn't going to change. Personally the thing I dislike the most is all these threads. Neither side can convince the other and it's all a waste of space.
Dodgy Past Amarr Lollipops for Rancors	Posted - 2009.10.16 12:03:00 - [47] Originally by: Youri Civire Check battleclinic for a good fit for your ship. Give your own spin on that fit cuz nothing is better than having an ace up your sleeve in pvp. When fitting just think about how you want to fight, what ships you want to beat and which ones you'll need to run away from and then fit accordingly.
Typhado3 Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Aeternus.	Posted - 2009.10.16 12:27:00 - [48] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Vikura That depends totally how one defines the "carebear", as it varys from game to game and from people to people. True enough. From the tips given in the OP, it seems that "carebear" in this thread is someone who have never seen ship-to-ship combat because they are too unfamiliar with the concepts to ever dare try it, and thus never get familiar with it, which only keeps the myths and misconceptions alive. that's not a carebear, that's a noob. ------------------------------ Just a crazy inventor ccp fix mining agent missions % pls
Irida Mershkov Gallente War is Bliss	Posted - 2009.10.16 12:35:00 - [49] Edited by: Irida Mershkov on 16/10/2009 12:35:10 Originally by: Vikura Eve without carebears! Now that's something i would like to see! No invention = No T2 stuff. No mission runners/ratters = No named items / materials. No miners = No materials. No materials = No ships or modules! Ooh what a wonderful world that would be, everyone flying around in pods And well, i find OP's post to be little too much generalisation, not every carebear is like that. Some carebear to make the losses they take in PvP and so on. I'm a carebear and i don't think PvP would cost too much, it's just that i don't like it as much as other activities in the game. You know, eve is sandbox -style game, there is no right or wrong thing to do in-game. However, if you start to pay my monthly fees, you're free to tell me what to do and how to do it in this game. The term Carebear does not mean what you think it means. Edit: already established some posts above, I need to learn to read a thread before replying.
the plague Scoopex Majesta Empire	Posted - 2009.10.16 13:35:00 - [50] Originally by: Rells Who hates? Its a game. I simply speak the truth. No, Rells, that's called opinion.
Traidor Disloyal Private Nuisance	Posted - 2009.10.16 14:28:00 - [51] Originally by: Kai Lae This is actually quite important, you can't force people to play in a way they don't want to play. They have to want to go out to 0.0, you can't force them. Some of us are perfectly fine blowing up Mission Runners in High Sec. ************************************************* I have three characters. One has Cov Ops V along with all the bells and whistles that goes with it.
Blackjack Turner Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2009.10.16 14:37:00 - [52] Originally by: Rells Stuff tl;dr Another excellent troll!! 10/10!!
Nyxster	Posted - 2009.10.16 14:53:00 - [53] Originally by: Rells the further ramblings of rells ego poasting if only Eve had a warp scrambler for Rells keyboard, we could be saved from moar of his failure to understand world+dog != rells ego.
Josefius Gallente JOKAS Industries Apocalypse Now.	Posted - 2009.10.16 15:03:00 - [54] Another self righteous post about how we should play the game.
Kiran Minmatar BETA Industries REIGN Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.16 15:21:00 - [55] Well that OP was a very narrow view of players who mine and do industry. I play the game to have fun I dont find pvp fun so does that make me a carebear ? But i will PvP if there are no other options left. I will defend assests corp members and friends. Also when was the last time you saw a mining ship with weapons on it that can fight off player ships ?
Coch Draig Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2009.10.16 15:39:00 - [56] Are you still here? sigh. Cannot wait for your GTC to end. Originally by: Zymurgist Locked. Petitions are the only way to deal with this issue there is nothing the forums can help you with. Please stop opening multiple threads. Zymurgist
Dretzle Omega Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.10.16 15:42:00 - [57] I liked your previous topic about how carebears can succeed at PvP by changing their attitude, but... Originally by: Rells 1) Carebears fail to realize the blinky red effect. ... if the carebears would simply turn their guns on the pirate, its not likely that the pirate would survive. Sure you might lose a ship or two but you would teach the pirate that the cost is too high to attack. Depends on the setup of the miners, but barges are definitely not suited to any kind of a response. The best tactic is to leave and lose one ship, rather than stay and lose all. What are they going to do? Throw their drones at you? Maybe if you are a slow frigate, and even then only if you come with in the pathetic range of the barges. So... you don't teach the pirate anything. Unless you have spare combat ships in the system. Coming back to fight might work. However, with IQ way above 100, the miners realize that very rarely do pirates fly solo. Or rather, in Eve we have to assume they don't. As you say, PvP is about tactics. Sometimes running away is a valid tactic in war. Quote: 2) Anther mistake carebears make is to assume that PvP is some sort of magical nirvana that requires lightning reflexes and isk coming out the ears. Another mistake that PvPers make is that carebears know jack squat about PvP. Some have either not bothered to train the combat skills, don't have a sufficient PvP ship in system, or have done their research on your corp and wish to avoid long standing enmity. Quote: 3) Carebears take things said to them by people in the game too seriously and listen too much. This one I agree with. Not in the manner you say. Sounds like you actually believe carebear = new player, which is not always the case. A new or unintelligent player might just bring a bigger ship for you to destroy, an experienced "carebear" will be more intelligent. But people do get too heated up about the game. On the other hand, pirates often allow themselves to be real morons because they think that playing a game allows them to act like idiots. As a "carebear", I actually laugh at those ones. They can be kind of funny. Quote: 4) Carebears think they are actually winnign and succeeding in a game but the reality is that they are living in a halucenogenic lie. Those rats have no more intelligence than a real life rat. Computer opponents are pathetically easy to beat if you have the IQ above 100. So you might ask, well if i am not really succeeding in a game, what the heck am I doing? The answer is simple, you are paying CCP to run on a hamster's cage wheel. ... That's your assumption. People play for different reasons. Different people find different things fun. I used to play Descent, too. Those bots were all programmed and predictable, but I had fun playing. Hmm, I also played FF games. The intelligence of the enemies was questionable in those games, too. But I played for fun and entertainment, not to prove I am better than everyone else. Quote: You will be getting somewhere when you break out of the boundaries of what the mission hands you and challenge yourself. Ah, so you described carebears as missioners, then. You may find that carebears are not so easily categorized.
Jay Marshall Caldari Walks Forever Trade Inc	Posted - 2009.10.16 15:53:00 - [58] Originally by: Rells 3) Carebears take things said to them by people in the game too seriously and listen too much. This is the only correct thing Rells has ever in his entire course of speaking in this game, said that is true. Sad really. ------------------------ CEO Walks Forever Trade Inc
Little Feathers	Posted - 2009.10.16 16:13:00 - [59] Hey look. Another 'carebear' thread, in which people seemingly on the same side of the argument are nonetheless using different definitions of the term beyond the obvious conclusion that they hate them.
Droog 1 Black Rise Inbreds	Posted - 2009.10.16 16:44:00 - [60] Who will fund pvp without carebears to buy GTCs?

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