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The mistakes that carebears make.

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Rells Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.10.15 22:59:00 - [1] Well after a couple of rambunctious thread about carebears and how they are wrong about eve, I thought I would have a bit more fun and talk about the mistakes they make in Eve. I would, however, like to take a moment to thank the participants of the other threads for their thoughtful opinions and those that kept us all entertained with their notion of self importance so high that they feel we should all care what they think of us personally. Without such people these forums would be far less fun and less of a draw for killing time between meetings. Speaking of killing there are so many traps that carebears fall into that it is hard to really enumerate them in the 4k character limit but lets look at some of the most important. 1) Carebears fail to realize the blinky red effect. When a pirate warps into their little mining operation, they suddenly see a blinky red square on the screen and panic. Its like throwing a cherry bomb in a pack of ants. The pirates pick off one player to kill and the others scatter. The irony is that even without training if the carebears would simply turn their guns on the pirate, its not likely that the pirate would survive. Sure you might lose a ship or two but you would teach the pirate that the cost is too high to attack. 2) Anther mistake carebears make is to assume that PvP is some sort of magical nirvana that requires lightning reflexes and isk coming out the ears. That couldn't be further from the truth. The reality is that it takes only the will to fight and not be a victim and a couple of friends. A little training will defeat 90% of pirates out there and allow you to venture into 0.0 space. You have to understand that the vast majority of pirates actually dont have a clue about pvp. They take very safe fights with unarmed or massively overpowered opponents. They dont want a fight, they want a massacre. You win against pirates when you shatter their preconcieved notions about what they encounter. Getting a bigger ship wont solve it, you have to address the psychological motivation. If you have a big ship but fail to address the core issue, then all you will be doing is giving the pirate more loot. Instead you should laye traps for them, remember that it is greed that motivates them and all of their bragging is bravado that is easily cracked. Attack them instead of defending. The moment you feel you are on defense you have lost the battle. 3) Carebears take things said to them by people in the game too seriously and listen too much. When the pirate kills you and says "ha get a better ship you noob" you go out and get a better ship but still lose. Again, like the previous example, you have forgotten to address WHY he won, not WHAT he won with. Instead of listening to the ramblings of what is likely some kid halfway across the world, realize that they are unimportant to you and think about why you lost. Whether or not you win the next battle will be decided before the battle is ever fought. 4) Carebears think they are actually winnign and succeeding in a game but the reality is that they are living in a halucenogenic lie. Those rats have no more intelligence than a real life rat. Computer opponents are pathetically easy to beat if you have the IQ above 100. So you might ask, well if i am not really succeeding in a game, what the heck am I doing? The answer is simple, you are paying CCP to run on a hamster's cage wheel. They keep adding more pieces to the wheel but it goes round and round forver getting nowhere. All you are doing is grinding to this and to that. You will be getting somewhere when you break out of the boundaries of what the mission hands you and challenge yourself. When you enter combat against another player, the adrenaline spikes, the hand shakes and you defeat them. Once you have gone there, it will be impossible to go back to the hamster's wheel. It will be impossible; like going back to a black and white TV after a life of watching Color HDTV. Good luck.
Swiftgaze	Posted - 2009.10.15 23:13:00 - [2] tl;dr But I enjoyed your post about pvp.
HeavyUnstable PowerWorm	Posted - 2009.10.15 23:13:00 - [3] First mistake: They start training industry skills...
Rakor Vin Gallente Gallente Eagles The Golden Rule Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.15 23:14:00 - [4] Couldn't have said it better myself wish someone let me know this **** when i first started. This should be posted for all carebears to see, then again maybe not we might ruin it for the pirates
Kai Lae Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.10.15 23:22:00 - [5] You forgot the most important one Rells: A large majority of carebears don't want to learn how to defend themselves or seemingly can't learn. They are unsuited to any enviroment where potential combat against themselves is involved. No matter how many times you tell them they won't listen and will just get beaten again and again in the same ways. This is why the overall objective of dominion that CCP has - mass moving people to 0.0 from empire - is doomed to failure. Most people in empire unfortunately have no place being anywhere near 0.0. They mentally are totally unsuited for it. If they were suited for it, they'd be there already, it's not like 0.0 corporations are always looking to pick up new members that "get it". Then again, considering that large scale fights are already straining CCP's servers to the limit, it's best that things mostly stay the way they are. All a huge inrush would do would be to make fights move in 0 FPS and cause mass fustration.
Octavin	Posted - 2009.10.15 23:30:00 - [6] Spot on, especially the hand shaking adrenline rush only engaging another person can give.
Khemul Zula Amarr Keisen Trade League	Posted - 2009.10.15 23:43:00 - [7] Originally by: Rells Its like throwing a cherry bomb in a pack of ants. Erm...have you tried this? I assure you, the ants have a very good reason to run in terror. Think of it on their level.
Billy Sastard Amarr Life. Universe. Everything.	Posted - 2009.10.15 23:55:00 - [8] Originally by: Khemul Zula Originally by: Rells Its like throwing a cherry bomb in a pack of ants. Erm...have you tried this? I assure you, the ants have a very good reason to run in terror. Think of it on their level. Yeah... but you are not an ant. In EVE we are awesome spaceships with the capability to defend ourselves, it is just that the carebear mind can only react in one manner in a situation like that, and that reaction is RUN AWAY!!! <-------------------------------------------------> "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." -Albert Einstein
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2009.10.15 23:59:00 - [9] Biggest mistake a carebear can make is clicking the new topic button. Originally by: CCP Whisper So you're going to have to do some actual thinking with regards to hull components and their capabilities instead of copying some cookie-cutter setup. Cry some more.
Awesome Possum Imperium Signal Corps	Posted - 2009.10.16 00:12:00 - [10] Originally by: Khemul Zula Originally by: Rells Its like throwing a cherry bomb in a pack of ants. Erm...have you tried this? I assure you, the ants have a very good reason to run in terror. Think of it on their level. in the southern states of the US, throwing a cherry bomb into an ant hill is as smart as sticking your weenie in a hornet's nest. ♥ Wreck Disposal Services
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2009.10.16 00:20:00 - [11] Originally by: Awesome Possum Originally by: Khemul Zula Originally by: Rells Its like throwing a cherry bomb in a pack of ants. Erm...have you tried this? I assure you, the ants have a very good reason to run in terror. Think of it on their level. in the southern states of the US, throwing a cherry bomb into an ant hill is as smart as sticking your weenie in a hornet's nest. Fire ants = do not want. -- Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam. Tier 5 Battleships
Khemul Zula Amarr Keisen Trade League	Posted - 2009.10.16 00:26:00 - [12] Originally by: Awesome Possum Originally by: Khemul Zula Originally by: Rells Its like throwing a cherry bomb in a pack of ants. Erm...have you tried this? I assure you, the ants have a very good reason to run in terror. Think of it on their level. in the southern states of the US, throwing a cherry bomb into an ant hill is as smart as sticking your weenie in a hornet's nest. Only because some Southerners tend to think "I'm gonna stand here 3 feet away and watch." while everyone with atleast some sense is running away in terror. In the Southern States it is considered a rather good idea to run away (terror is optional, but very much advised) whenever two or more Southerners are standing around waiting for "something interesting" to happen.
Jason Edwards Internet Tough Guy	Posted - 2009.10.16 00:28:00 - [13] Quote: 1) Carebears fail to realize the blinky red effect. When a pirate warps into their little mining operation, they suddenly see a blinky red square on the screen and panic. Its like throwing a cherry bomb in a pack of ants. The pirates pick off one player to kill and the others scatter. The irony is that even without training if the carebears would simply turn their guns on the pirate, its not likely that the pirate would survive. Sure you might lose a ship or two but you would teach the pirate that the cost is too high to attack. I had a lulz idea. I setup a myrm and exequror with lazors. I went to an out of the way lowsec that rarely gets people in it. Went rat with exequror to start. Pirate came along. However... for lulz decided to go fit heavy kin/therm tank. On a shield tank ship. He came in and attacked me. I didnt really try to get away... i just hit mwd and turned lazors onto him. POOF his tank disappears. 3rd volley pops him. He doesnt warp out his pod... and in local is like. "Well played; never expected lazors" I lewt him and goto yulai to sell the goods. I move 2 systems over. Go with myrm. I still have terrible lazor skills even today. I had a passive shield tanked myrm. It was around 2000 or so dps kin/therm. Megathron comes to attack me. 1m from me the whole fight. My 4x ogre 1s took so long to kill him and lazors barely fired due to cap issues. At the time I had thought that the lazors werent meant to be firing constantly... that they did massive dmg and then had to recharge. But myrm speed is faster then mega so i stayed on him constantly. He couldnt kill me. I just kept shooting him. The fight took so long that there had been several lowsec ratters come in and out of the belt. Great stuff. Quote: 2) Anther mistake carebears make is to assume that PvP is some sort of magical nirvana that requires lightning reflexes and isk coming out the ears. Blob or be blobbed. The bigger blob wins. Doesnt matter what they fly. 100 assault frigs can easily kill carriers. New epic pirate arc has a shuttle killing a carrier. So ya. ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe. ------------------------ Life sucks and then you get podded.
Yalezorn Gallente	Posted - 2009.10.16 00:57:00 - [14] Concerning point 4, would you care to explain how one goes about winning a sandbox game, or any MMO for that matter? "Winning" is just playing the game in a way that makes you happy. Missions, mining and manufacturing makes some people happy. The only true losers are the ones who never grew out of egocentrism with the rest of us when we turned 10, and can't understand how someone else can have fun doing something they don't like. The only failure here is you. Sorry to break it to you. And before anyone tries, I'm not the one the OP is trying to talk about. I live in a wormhole, where pvp happens every day. I'm just smart enough to understand that my way isn't the end-all method of existence.
Korizan Red Mercury Incorporated	Posted - 2009.10.16 01:26:00 - [15] 1. False 2. False 3. False 4. False Your stereo type perceptions of care bears are wrong. Just thought you should know
Pater Peccavi Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.10.16 01:36:00 - [16] Originally by: Rells those that kept us all entertained with their notion of self importance so high that they feel we should all care what they think of us personally. Quoted for irony. And I'm not even a carebear, I'm terrible at PvE in this game. _________
Arch Law State War Academy	Posted - 2009.10.16 01:42:00 - [17] Btw, half of the average population has IQ under 100 by definition, so something unable to be done by half the playerbase isn't that stringent of a standard. 70 is a better number since that's the borderline for mental retar.dation. - What value, trust? In a world without betrayal? What value, charity? In a world without greed? What value, kindness? In a world without cruelty? What distinction, good? In a world without evil?
Ukucia Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.10.16 01:55:00 - [18] Edited by: Ukucia on 16/10/2009 01:55:51 Originally by: Rells 1) Carebears fail to realize the blinky red effect. When a pirate warps into their little mining operation, they suddenly see a blinky red square on the screen and panic. Its like throwing a cherry bomb in a pack of ants. The pirates pick off one player to kill and the others scatter. The irony is that even without training if the carebears would simply turn their guns on the pirate, its not likely that the pirate would survive. Sure you might lose a ship or two but you would teach the pirate that the cost is too high to attack. Perhaps you could point me to a killmail where mining lasers killed a pirate? Or do you have a super-secret way to fit guns onto a hulk?
Lotus Sutra Caldari Sutra Inc	Posted - 2009.10.16 01:56:00 - [19] The Mistake PvP'rs make is thinking the way they play eve is the only possible way to play eve. They are obviously very wrong as a much larger group of people actually play it differently. Dinosuar, meet Asteroid ELE (Extinction Level Event). ------------------------------------------------ No you can't have my stuff
Herzog Wolfhammer Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2009.10.16 02:00:00 - [20] Allow me.... Quote: 1) Carebears fail to realize the blinky red effect. When a pirate warps into their little mining operation, they suddenly see a blinky red square on the screen and panic. Its like throwing a cherry bomb in a pack of ants. The pirates pick off one player to kill and the others scatter. The irony is that even without training if the carebears would simply turn their guns on the pirate, its not likely that the pirate would survive. Sure you might lose a ship or two but you would teach the pirate that the cost is too high to attack. LOL - done that, but not as a miner. Once sat outsite a lowsec station in my velator wondering why some dude was blinky - even asked him in local. He didn't answer but parked his ship in front of mine, aligned to it, and then did nothing. Perhaps he died from being so livid at my noobishness. Then once, I lost a ship in a 0.4 system, this was before WTZ, and I was hanging around in my pod complaining about losing another ship. People were in local saying "Uh, dude. Don't admit that stuff. Do you know where you are?" Quote: 2) Anther mistake carebears make is to assume that PvP is some sort of magical nirvana that requires lightning reflexes and isk coming out the ears. That couldn't be further from the truth. The reality is that it takes only the will to fight and not be a victim and a couple of friends. A little training will defeat 90% of pirates out there and allow you to venture into 0.0 space. You have to understand that the vast majority of pirates actually dont have a clue about pvp. They take very safe fights with unarmed or massively overpowered opponents. They dont want a fight, they want a massacre. People think that PVP is instagank. This comes from being caught in gate camps. Feels like just throwing a ship away. But once it becomes learned and practiced on how to avoid such situations, it's not so scary. I avoided PVP for years out of fear that it would be disappointing. Didn't want to get used to the thrill of it. Then again, being the gate camper and not the campee is probably more boring. Quote: 3) Carebears take things said to them by people in the game too seriously and listen too much. When the pirate kills you and says "ha get a better ship you noob" you go out and get a better ship but still lose. Again, like the previous example, you have forgotten to address WHY he won, not WHAT he won with. Instead of listening to the ramblings of what is likely some kid halfway across the world, realize that they are unimportant to you and think about why you lost. Whether or not you win the next battle will be decided before the battle is ever fought. One thing you learn the hard way in this game is that Bigger is NOT better. Bigger only means slower to align, and more signature radius. Took me a long time to figure that out, until one day all I had to do a LVL 2 mission with was a Rifter and the NPC ships were cruisers doing heinous damage. I realized that if I kept the AB on they could not hurt me. Yeah it took a while to figure that. Did I mention I once killed a pirate with noobishness? Quote: 4) Carebears think they are actually winning and succeeding in a game but the reality is that they are living in a hallucinogenic lie. Those rats have no more intelligence than a real life rat. Computer opponents are pathetically easy to beat if you have the IQ above 100. Well the situation in my country (USA) with universal voting would suggest that in reality, MOST people don't have an IQ over 100. But that's another topic. I think that there is a Tolkien's Mountain Dwarf Syndrome that a lot of players suffer from, meaning that "he who has it all wins the game". "All" means ISK. This means no fleets, no help, no cooperation, must have all the loot, must have all the salvage, down to every last .01 ISK. If a mission cannot be handled like that, then it's "not worth it". There is an EVE advertisement pushing that.
Titan Pilot Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.10.16 02:19:00 - [21] Rells, Question for you: If a pvper hits a belt, kills a faction spawn and dies to a blob in the next system, is he a carebear? Even if he has 5000 kills? I think the Carebear label in EVE is pretty useless. I know alot of top PVPers who have industrial alts to fund their war chest. These guys would rip your heart out normally but when they are flying their Golems, they run like girls. Peace bud. Fly safe. Dibbs on the next belt.
Desigre	Posted - 2009.10.16 05:33:00 - [22] Hmm i wonder why all this hate against carebears? After all they are reason toy dont have to buy your cruiser at 100 miljon each. only reason i can think of is that pirates has really low-selfconfidence and need to do this forum rambling to feel better about them selfs.
Aarin Wrath Caldari Dominion Strategic	Posted - 2009.10.16 05:42:00 - [23] Originally by: Pater Peccavi Originally by: Rells those that kept us all entertained with their notion of self importance so high that they feel we should all care what they think of us personally. Quoted for irony. This. LOL.
Rells Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.10.16 06:16:00 - [24] Originally by: Titan Pilot Rells, Question for you: If a pvper hits a belt, kills a faction spawn and dies to a blob in the next system, is he a carebear? Even if he has 5000 kills? I think the Carebear label in EVE is pretty useless. I know alot of top PVPers who have industrial alts to fund their war chest. These guys would rip your heart out normally but when they are flying their Golems, they run like girls. Peace bud. Fly safe. Dibbs on the next belt. Carebear is a frame of mind, not a specific action. Originally by: Desigre Hmm i wonder why all this hate against carebears? After all they are reason toy dont have to buy your cruiser at 100 miljon each. only reason i can think of is that pirates has really low-selfconfidence and need to do this forum rambling to feel better about them selfs. Who hates? Its a game. I simply speak the truth. And I have alts that can buld antthing in the game. Prior to empire level 4s and the like every alliance supplied themselves just fine. It was only thoguh the flooding of the markets with cheap mission good, cheap tech 2 and the invention of carriers that changed that. If tomorrow all the carebears left, the pvpers would still be supplied. As for pirates, low self confidence? Hardly. They are ****y and self assured. Sure they are often risk averse. I would say they are like bullies in a school yard. They are brave to a point but will shy from conflict that threatens to hurt them.
Tawny Kielbasa	Posted - 2009.10.16 06:42:00 - [25] Edited by: Tawny Kielbasa on 16/10/2009 06:43:52 Originally by: Desigre Hmm i wonder why all this hate against carebears? After all they are reason toy dont have to buy your cruiser at 100 miljon each. only reason i can think of is that pirates has really low-selfconfidence and need to do this forum rambling to feel better about them selfs. Who hates? Its a game. I simply speak the truth. ... I thought about asking you certain things. Like "Why do you tell other people that don't share your point of view that 'Its a game' but you feel the need to explain yours again and again"? and "Do you understand that the term Carebear is derogatory and thus not a good way to address the people that are referred to by that term"? At which point I would argue about the credibility of your posting. Since (again) it is based on the "Your mind wins the fight before it starts - but we do not need to bother ourselves with the mind of the other side. Thinking that you will win is sufficient", which (again) implies the "everyone can win" attitude. But then I thought... Hey, you will quit in November! Why should I bother to write a proper response??
Rells Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.10.16 07:02:00 - [26] Originally by: Tawny Kielbasa Edited by: Tawny Kielbasa on 16/10/2009 06:43:52 Originally by: Desigre Hmm i wonder why all this hate against carebears? After all they are reason toy dont have to buy your cruiser at 100 miljon each. only reason i can think of is that pirates has really low-selfconfidence and need to do this forum rambling to feel better about them selfs. Who hates? Its a game. I simply speak the truth. ... I thought about asking you certain things. Like "Why do you tell other people that don't share your point of view that 'Its a game' but you feel the need to explain yours again and again"? and "Do you understand that the term Carebear is derogatory and thus not a good way to address the people that are referred to by that term"? I dont care if people are offended by the term carebear. I dont do political correctness well and dont care if a single person here loves or hates me. Anonymous people on theinternet dont matter to me. Originally by: Tawny Kielbasa At which point I would argue about the credibility of your posting. Since (again) it is based on the "Your mind wins the fight before it starts - but we do not need to bother ourselves with the mind of the other side. Thinking that you will win is sufficient", which (again) implies the "everyone can win" attitude. this comment just shows the total lack of comprehension you have for what I said. Explanation is probably lost on you but I will say this. The real game of pvp is mental. It involved you believing you can do it as well as outwitting the opponent. However, thinking "i cant win" is always instant death. Originally by: Tawny Kielbasa But then I thought... Hey, you will quit in November! Why should I bother to write a proper response?? Dont know, dont care.
Jagga Spikes Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.10.16 07:17:00 - [27] third time a charm :) enjoyable reading.
Tippia Raddick Explorations Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2009.10.16 07:39:00 - [28] Originally by: Ukucia Perhaps you could point me to a killmail where mining lasers killed a pirate? Or do you have a super-secret way to fit guns onto a hulk? I can't remember the last time I saw someone without weapons on their Hulk… Originally by: Arch Law Btw, half of the average population has IQ under 100 by definition, so something unable to be done by half the playerbase isn't that stringent of a standard. Only if you assume that the player base is a completely representative cross-section of the overall population. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Hot Fudge Minmatar Sweet -N- Sticky	Posted - 2009.10.16 07:54:00 - [29] Huh? You mean there is something other than doing missions, or mining asteroids in this game? Who would have thought that. Thanks to the OP for enlightening us over the wrong way to play the game. I know this will go down in history as the best forum thread ever posted any where on the internet... EVER!!! ========================= Sweet, sticky, and bad for your health.
Ecatherina W Gallente Dromedary Goat Albatross and Fish Big Bang Quantum	Posted - 2009.10.16 08:39:00 - [30] One more "Rells wants attention" thread? Welcome back to Eve, Rells. Don't trip in your threads, they are getting a bit long and windy in their repeat-carebear-hate. * dons flamesuit for the expected hatereply * *** Empress of the Multiverse ***

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