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jovoloro
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Posted - 2009.10.21 17:32:00 -
[1]
Whats your guys/gals take on using an afterburner instead of the micro warp on a cruiser? when would you consider it acceptable? For me I spend most of my time in high sec and low sec, so don`t take bubbles into account.
personnally I spend most of my time in a thorax, and I`m picky about my targets, I know I can`t beat assault frigates that stay out beyond my scram and web range. I know I may have a hard time catching folks with an afterburner, but most of the time they warp off well before I ever had a chance, Or they run right at me.
So basically, what do you think of afterburners on cruisers? and which ones would it work on? |
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2009.10.21 17:34:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: jovoloro
So basically, what do you think of afterburners on cruisers?
Stupid as hell. AB = no speed = dead cruiser.
Quote:
and which ones would it work on?
The ones you want to die in.
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jovoloro
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Posted - 2009.10.21 17:55:00 -
[3]
I understand that on most they won`t work for s**t. but I did read on battlclinic a while ago that they work well for the omen, just curious if it was just that ship or if there was others.
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Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2009.10.21 17:57:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Omara Otawan on 21/10/2009 17:57:34
Personally I always have MWD fit, but keep an AB in cargo to refit in case there is some combat situation in deadspace.
Only cruisers I could think of that can make sense to fit with AB as your standard fitting are stabber fleet issue (maybe vagabond, but AB / armor fit isnt that great tbh), caracal depending on intended role and pilgrim.
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Pan Zhu'Liang
Caldari
State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.10.21 17:57:00 -
[5]
you use afterburners for missions or when you want to sig tank. I don't know of any cruisers that can effectively sig tank, but maybe. The only thing i can think of is possibly dual prop, but you'd probably just end up gimping your fit.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.10.21 18:04:00 -
[6]
Most of the "advice" on Battleclinic is laughable tosh.
As for AB cruisers, well... you may think that your slaved, trimarked plated AB Vexor is pretty uber, but you tend to look kinda silly when you a single-LSE AML Caracal comes in, effortlessly kites you, kills the drones then slowly grinds through your masses of armour.
That would have been a great killmail. Unfortunately, he self-destructed at minimal armour. 
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Removal Tool
Space Jerks
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Posted - 2009.10.21 18:18:00 -
[7]
To use an AB, you need to be able to get within scram range(9k) instead of just WarpDis range (24k), because with an AB you need to shut down the target's MWD to best dictate range.
So usually cruiser hulls won't be able to get into scram range before the target warps out. Even if you used a Warp Dis and a web, you still need to get into and then stay in web range.
Also medium guns at AB cruiser speeds do not track like small guns at AB frigate speeds.
And a cruiser with an AB cannot dictate range against anything smaller than a BS.
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jovoloro
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Posted - 2009.10.21 18:18:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Gypsio III
Most of the "advice" on Battleclinic is laughable tosh.
To be honest I do tend to not like some of the advice from there, its always the same folks giving the advice, therefore a single perspective and only on opinion.
As for the afterburner, I was just curious, and I know not to touch quite a few other cruisers, expecialy the nano-tanked ones. As I can never catch them with my thorax or my vexor.
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General Coochie
The Bastards
The Bastards.
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Posted - 2009.10.21 18:29:00 -
[9]
Edited by: General Coochie on 21/10/2009 18:29:31
AB arbitrator works 1v1 very nicely. I fight a deimos or a zealot or turret BC 1v1 in that any day with good chance of winning.
It needs to start in close though, so gotta be smart with how you start the fight.
AB is actually great in all cases IF you know you will get a 1v1 and that you can start the fight in close range or if its a target relying on close range dps. This can be more or less rare though.
But for example an AB+scram moa playing docking games with uber shield tank can probably kill any other cruiser that gets in its scram range. And if they don't you just skip agressing and dock.
Got Cooch?, solo PvP movie
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Tom Peeping
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Posted - 2009.10.21 19:28:00 -
[10]
It's really dependent on the ship.
Short answer... if you can get a reasonable speed from the AB, it's viable. There are ships that can AB just fine... but many are much better off with a MWD.
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Terianna Eri
Amarr
Senex Legio
Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2009.10.21 19:30:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Terianna Eri on 21/10/2009 19:35:04
AB is okay under the following circumstances.
A. You can guarantee you will be starting within web and scram range of your opponent.
B. Your opponents will not try to leave web and scram range (which means they're not neuting you, they're not ECMing you, etc)
C. Your opponents friends will also warp in within web and scram range of your slow ass.
D. You don't need to travel any meaningful distance at sub-warp speed.
Except... in those circumstances, you'd be better off not fitting a propulsion mod at all, and fitting, say, a 2nd web instead, since it'll let you hit things better within web range and you're not gonna be doing anything to anyone further away than that anyway.
The thing about afterburners is that if you've got one, and your opponent has a MWD, and can stay over 13km away from you, you have near as makes no difference a 0% chance of killing him. And that's for 1v1, the best possible scenario for an afterburner.
tl;dr; if you care about your distance from your opponent, you should really, really be fitting a microwarpdrive. If you don't, you give them range control, which is a bad thing. An afterburner is good only if you assume all of your opponents are going to be rushing into your range (which means you don't get to pick what you engage[/b]) and even then, once you're webbed, you're not going anywhere especially quickly, afterburner or not.
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Orakkus
Minmatar
m3 Corp
Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2009.10.21 19:39:00 -
[12]
Originally by: jovoloro
Whats your guys/gals take on using an afterburner instead of the micro warp on a cruiser? when would you consider it acceptable? For me I spend most of my time in high sec and low sec, so don`t take bubbles into account.
personnally I spend most of my time in a thorax, and I`m picky about my targets, I know I can`t beat assault frigates that stay out beyond my scram and web range. I know I may have a hard time catching folks with an afterburner, but most of the time they warp off well before I ever had a chance, Or they run right at me.
So basically, what do you think of afterburners on cruisers? and which ones would it work on?
Only time an AB fit on a cruiser is viable is when running missions. Sometimes you can build somewhat viable frig class AB ships (like Assault frigs), but those only work well in certain conditions (and I'm a HUGE Assault Frig/AB fan). But for PVP, an AB for a cruiser will end badly for you every time.
I only do diplomancy because I haven't found you.. yet. |
jovoloro
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Posted - 2009.10.21 20:23:00 -
[13]
alright, that solves my curiousity, I have never tried to use an afterburner in pvp, I just like to try to think outside the box. usually that means changes that most don`t agree with, and in this case there concern is justified.
thanks, jovo.
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zappy102
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Posted - 2009.10.21 21:15:00 -
[14]
I personally use an MWD on all of my cruisers except for my arbitrator.
I fit my arbitrator with dual TDs and a nos and it's cap-stable and it cannot be hit by any turreted ship bigger than a frigate, even webbed, blaster/pulse/AC cruisers have trouble hitting it while it's armor tank allows it to soak up damage that occasionally gets through.
Using an MWD is generally better, but if you know you're going to be in close-quarters fights, then an AB is preferable since it's kinder on your cap.
Just my 2 cents 
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jovoloro
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Posted - 2009.10.21 21:26:00 -
[15]
Originally by: zappy102
I personally use an MWD on all of my cruisers except for my arbitrator.
I fit my arbitrator with dual TDs and a nos and it's cap-stable and it cannot be hit by any turreted ship bigger than a frigate, even webbed, blaster/pulse/AC cruisers have trouble hitting it while it's armor tank allows it to soak up damage that occasionally gets through.
Using an MWD is generally better, but if you know you're going to be in close-quarters fights, then an AB is preferable since it's kinder on your cap.
Just my 2 cents
note to self,.... stay away from arbitrator`s. lol.
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Master Technique
Club Bear
HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2009.10.21 21:31:00 -
[16]
Watch the video in my sig, "Hull: Thorax Class". I fly the rax all the time and use the AB frequently. Two reasons:
A) There are a lot of bad pvp opponents. They won't know what "dictate range" means. I kill a minnie recon in that vid with a deimos after approaching from 26k or something. This doesn't happen if the opponent is competent, but people are often not competent.
B) Cap stability. People often ignore this key attribute of a good pvp fit, and on gallente ships, its huge. AB's with a good fuel conservation skill level helps a great deal.
Other people in this thread might have experiences that backup their bias for MWD's, but you can watch my vid as actual proof that AB's are viable. The deimos in the vid actually has a mwd, and performs the worst. I fly an AB Rax, AB Phobos, and AB Vigilant successfully in that vid.
Don't take advice from people who make absolute generalizations to make themselves sound smarter like some of the guys in this thread, and if all else fails, just go fly an AB thorax, or whatever other new ideas you have, and actually test them.
tl;dr: AB's can be viable on PVP cruisers. Nothing against MWD's, but AB's work too.
________________
Master Technique
Latest Video:H:TC
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2009.10.22 05:44:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Master Technique
A) There are a lot of bad pvp opponents. They won't know what "dictate range" means. I kill a minnie recon in that vid with a deimos after approaching from 26k or something. This doesn't happen if the opponent is competent, but people are often not competent
This is a terrible reason. Yes, some people are stupid enough to die to an AB-fit cruiser, but in all of those cases, you would also have won if you had a MWD instead. On the other hand, there are many situations in which you win with a MWD but would NOT win with an AB.
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Chunky Milk
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Posted - 2009.10.22 05:56:00 -
[18]
Here to confirm afterburner on an omen works fine.
tbh it's near impossible to fit a MWD on an omen with a tank..in fact it is impossible.
For low sec they also work fine also - Just depends how you fly your ship and what targets you go for (Or you let think they are going for you) Which is possible, let a bigger ship come after you, warp around to celestial on 0 and you can get your close range right there...
Thorax though i guess MWD to get in range for blasters, thing with omen is it can hit out 20km with scorch anyway.
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2009.10.22 06:11:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Chunky Milk
Here to confirm afterburner on an omen works fine.
So let me get this straight: you have a ship with absolutely zero tank, and therefore no way of staying alive besides out-ranging the opponent with your 24km pulses. And you want to fit an AB on this ship, making you slower than every single sub-capital ship in the game, including those that wish to get up close and gank you? Could you explain just how exactly this is a good idea?
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2009.10.22 06:24:00 -
[20]
[Omen, Liang's Shield Omen]
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
F85 Peripheral Damage System I
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
10MN MicroWarpdrive I
Faint Warp Disruptor I
Large Shield Extender II
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Hobgoblin II x3
Very competitive to any armor tanking Omen you can put together (including the 800 plate + FMP + AB Omen). I stuck to the F85 because the IFFA is too expensive for a cruiser hull (2m vs 12m).
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
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Throckbane
Eve University
Ivy League
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Posted - 2009.10.22 15:30:00 -
[21]
Liang, very interesting fit. I can see it winning the DPS battle at range while being able to outrun almost all the other cruisers.
I'm interested in what you might consider to be it's weaknesses though. For example, I know I run into a lot of Taranis, I would probably want to avoid them completely as this omen doesn't have a web and the Taranis easily win the speed battle.
Also, would setting orbit to 16km and then turning on MWD, negate a significant portion of the drone DPS of vexors, ruptures, and thoraxes?
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Terianna Eri
Amarr
Senex Legio
Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2009.10.22 15:39:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Terianna Eri on 22/10/2009 15:44:30
Originally by: Throckbane
Liang, very interesting fit. I can see it winning the DPS battle at range while being able to outrun almost all the other cruisers.
I'm interested in what you might consider to be it's weaknesses though. For example, I know I run into a lot of Taranis, I would probably want to avoid them completely as this omen doesn't have a web and the Taranis easily win the speed battle.
Also, would setting orbit to 16km and then turning on MWD, negate a significant portion of the drone DPS of vexors, ruptures, and thoraxes?
Its weakness is anything faster than it, or anything that can live long enough for the Omen to cap itself out.
You'll probably be using keep at range and set to 18km ish. Use the MWD only to maintain range, don't try to speed tank, you're not fast enough and you don't have the cap for it.
A taranis will pretty much eat your face yeah. But it's an Omen, it's not going to do a lot of things well anyway. Orbiting with MWD on would probably negate some of the damage you'd be taking yes but as mentioned you don't have the cap for it, you'll be fighting vexors by standing at 19km, lazoring them, and just leaving if they have too much tank.
Liang's fit is actually short by 3% cpu if you've got max skills; if you drop a nanofiber for a co-pro you can fit a T2 DC and a T2 point without implants though.
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Galliana Foresta
Fleeting Moments of Insanity
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Posted - 2009.10.22 15:39:00 -
[23]
I wouldn't pay too much attention to Merin's AB hate posts tbh.
If it's not MWD fit, he'll flame like a mofo.
ABs do work on certain ships in certain circumstances. They aren't the out and out piece of **** that Merin would have you believe.
On another note, nice Omen fit, Liang. Been looking for one that I like for a few days now. I'll give it a try.
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Davinel Lulinvega
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Posted - 2009.10.22 15:39:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Throckbane
Liang, very interesting fit. I can see it winning the DPS battle at range while being able to outrun almost all the other cruisers.
I'm interested in what you might consider to be it's weaknesses though. For example, I know I run into a lot of Taranis, I would probably want to avoid them completely as this omen doesn't have a web and the Taranis easily win the speed battle.
Also, would setting orbit to 16km and then turning on MWD, negate a significant portion of the drone DPS of vexors, ruptures, and thoraxes?
It's weak to anything faster than it, neuts, and being outnumbered. Kind of like every other range tanking nano fit.
You would negate drone damage for about 1 minute before you ran out of cap and died in a fire.
Which brings me back to one extra thing it's weak to - anything with an mwd, more cap, and more buffer. There's quite a few ships who can't catch you outright, but they can just tank you while burning towards you long enough that you run out of cap and have to disengage or die.
Originally by: CCP Tuxford
Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke!
inb4 stealth edit |
Proxyyyy
Caldari
initial.
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Posted - 2009.10.22 15:47:00 -
[25]
Not a fan of ab's on cruisers and up, but i have been beaten by cruisers fitted with ab's like rupture/Arby. Im not gunna say that they should never be used but they have there place.
Sticking with Mwd's though = )
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2009.10.22 15:50:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega
It's weak to anything faster than it, neuts, and being outnumbered ... anything with an mwd, more cap, and more buffer. ...
Yeah, it's not perfect, but it's an Omen FFS. The Omen is just so gimped for fittings... 
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Davinel Lulinvega
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Posted - 2009.10.22 15:55:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega
It's weak to anything faster than it, neuts, and being outnumbered ... anything with an mwd, more cap, and more buffer. ...
Yeah, it's not perfect, but it's an Omen FFS. The Omen is just so gimped for fittings...
-Liang
You're preaching to the choir. I'm pretty sure I've posted an almost identical fit before.
Originally by: CCP Tuxford
Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke!
inb4 stealth edit |
Kravick Drasani
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Posted - 2009.10.22 16:07:00 -
[28]
Originally by: zappy102
I personally use an MWD on all of my cruisers except for my arbitrator.
I fit my arbitrator with dual TDs and a nos and it's cap-stable and it cannot be hit by any turreted ship bigger than a frigate, even webbed, blaster/pulse/AC cruisers have trouble hitting it while it's armor tank allows it to soak up damage that occasionally gets through.
Using an MWD is generally better, but if you know you're going to be in close-quarters fights, then an AB is preferable since it's kinder on your cap.
Just my 2 cents
Would you mind posting your fit? I fly Arbitrators too and was wondering if there where better fits then what I use now.
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Originally by: Rilwar
If you want to nag on warp speed, how about the question of "Why does my Crow manage to go 9.5AU/s for 2 seconds during a 9AU jump?"
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Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2009.10.22 16:09:00 -
[29]
Originally by: jovoloro
Originally by: Gypsio III
Most of the "advice" on Battleclinic is laughable tosh.
To be honest I do tend to not like some of the advice from there, its always the same folks giving the advice, therefore a single perspective and only on opinion.
He's right though. 9/10 fits I see on battleclinic are completely moronic, and the remaining 1 is usually a universally known cookie cutter.
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Stuart Price
Caldari
The Black Rabbits
The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2009.10.22 17:29:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Gypsio III
Most of the "advice" on Battleclinic is laughable tosh.
As for AB cruisers, well... you may think that your slaved, trimarked plated AB Vexor is pretty uber, but you tend to look kinda silly when you a single-LSE AML Caracal comes in, effortlessly kites you, kills the drones then slowly grinds through your masses of armour.
That would have been a great killmail. Unfortunately, he self-destructed at minimal armour.
I have one for you Gypsio!
Putting the 'irate' into 'Pirate' |
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