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Fitting CRUISE/TORPEDOS laucnhers on Amarr BS

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lovely song	Posted - 2009.10.22 20:44:00 - [1] Has anyone considered fitting cruise/torpedo launchers on Amarr bs ? Apoc has 2 and Abaddon has 1 missile slot. There must ve been some reason why devs implemented that. Is that a viable fit with launchers ? The only reason I can imagine why would anyone do this is to mitigate amarr cap issues, more specifically to mitigate the fact that laser are most cap intensive turrets out there. Hence you could free up some low and mid slot which otherwise would've been used for cap rech and cap power relays. What are the opinions ?
Davinel Lulinvega	Posted - 2009.10.22 20:47:00 - [2] No. Hell no. Originally by: CCP Tuxford Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke! inb4 stealth edit
Terianna Eri Amarr Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn	Posted - 2009.10.22 20:52:00 - [3] No, and the first reason that comes to mind is that if you fit less than 8 turrets on these ships you'll screw up the awesome looking broadside. The 2nd reason is that bonused lasers are better than 1-2 unbonused missiles by a long shot and that mixing weapons when you dont have to is rubbish and etc but mostly you'd mess up the broadside
Amorpheous Cain	Posted - 2009.10.22 21:07:00 - [4] Rear reason the Abaddon has a launcher slot is so you can fit a Citadel Torp Launcher on it. Quote: [Abaddon, lol] Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot] Citadel Torpedo Launcher I, Thor Torpedo I [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Large Ancillary Current Router I Large Ancillary Current Router I Large Ancillary Current Router I Oh yeah
Duchess Starbuckington	Posted - 2009.10.22 21:17:00 - [5] Quote: There must ve been some reason why devs implemented that. It's a form of natural selection. It weeds out the people who are too stupid to be flying those.
Aralieus Amarr Traumark Logistics	Posted - 2009.10.22 23:20:00 - [6] No, and here is why Fortune Favors the Bold!!
Panzram GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.10.22 23:30:00 - [7] the citadel torp abaddon is a classic
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.10.22 23:34:00 - [8] Mixing guns with missiles isn't as bad as mixing different types of turrets because it ignores the staggered optimal range/tracking issue. However, bonused lasers > unbonused launchers. I wouldn't totally rule out such a fit without screwing around with it, but in general the 8-laser fit is ideal.
Forge Lag Jita Lag Preservation Fund	Posted - 2009.10.22 23:53:00 - [9] The missile slots are for defenders.
lovely song	Posted - 2009.10.23 11:20:00 - [10] Edited by: lovely song on 23/10/2009 11:20:05 Originally by: Forge Lag The missile slots are for defenders. so far thats the only trully sensible answer, ofc saying that bonused laser are better than unbonused missiles also make sense, but thats prettty much a no brainer by definition. Any other thought ? So far nobody made any comment with respect to cap stability issue.

lovely song	Posted - 2009.10.23 14:28:00 - [11] As you may know Apoc doesnt have dps bonus, hence this fit with cruisers should in theory be viable, more over it allows fitting 2 LARs and be cap stable (at 14 mins according to EFT which is pretty much cap stable). [Apocalypse, LV 4 Mission Runner] Large Armor Repairer II Large Armor Repairer II Beta Reactor Control: Diagnostic System I Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I N-Type Adaptive Nano Membrane I N-Type Adaptive Nano Membrane I N-Type Adaptive Nano Membrane I 100MN Afterburner II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Mega Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L Mega Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L Mega Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L Mega Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L Mega Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L Mega Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Discuss ? - also important to understand why are we suing that setup. I suggest that we use it for mission runing however do we really need 2 LARs. Altough there are other applications in PVE, such as running it in Labyrinth in Araz. Those of you who know that plex would agree that 2 LARs are needed in there to run it. Opinions ?
Harrison III Amarr	Posted - 2009.10.23 14:31:00 - [12] ROFL That's awesome Amorph.. LOL Originally by: Amorpheous Cain Rear reason the Abaddon has a launcher slot is so you can fit a Citadel Torp Launcher on it. Quote: [Abaddon, lol] Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot] Citadel Torpedo Launcher I, Thor Torpedo I [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Large Ancillary Current Router I Large Ancillary Current Router I Large Ancillary Current Router I Oh yeah
lovely song	Posted - 2009.10.23 16:09:00 - [13] Here are two otherwise identical fits: Cruise missile launchers fit DPS: 321 Mega beam lasers dps: 295 Cruise missiles fit lasts 23 minutes with all modules runing, that is pretty much forever Mega beam fit lasts 4m 8s Cruise fit tanks 354 Mega beam fit tanks 295 [Apocalypse, cruise missiles] Large Armor Repairer II Large Armor Repairer II Power Diagnostic System II Co-Processor II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Capacitor Power Relay II LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Mega Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L Mega Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L Mega Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L Mega Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L Mega Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L Mega Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I [Apocalypse, Mega beam lasers] Large Armor Repairer II Large Armor Repairer II Reactor Control Unit II Co-Processor II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Capacitor Power Relay II 100MN Afterburner II Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Mega Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L Mega Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L Mega Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L Mega Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L Mega Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L Mega Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L Mega Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L Small Tractor Beam I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I So cruise missiles fit is marginally better, or am I missing something here ?
Washell Olivaw	Posted - 2009.10.23 16:59:00 - [14] Originally by: lovely song am I missing something here ? Heat sinks Originally by: Signature Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
goazer Amarr Dark Amarr Brotherhood	Posted - 2009.10.23 17:06:00 - [15] Originally by: Panzram the citadel torp abaddon is a classic Does that really fit in game???
Terianna Eri Amarr Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn	Posted - 2009.10.23 17:16:00 - [16] Originally by: goazer Originally by: Panzram the citadel torp abaddon is a classic Does that really fit in game??? I think they actually put in a hard-coded rule that you cant fit capital mods to subcapital ships; IIRC the reason given was that it was a way to transport large volumes of minerals by fitting capital mods to battleships or something. kinda sucks but oh well
Arakidias The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.23 20:35:00 - [17] Originally by: Amorpheous Cain Rear reason the Abaddon has a launcher slot is so you can fit a Citadel Torp Launcher on it. Quote: [Abaddon, lol] Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot] Citadel Torpedo Launcher I, Thor Torpedo I [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Large Ancillary Current Router I Large Ancillary Current Router I Large Ancillary Current Router I Oh yeah You can also make a siege missile Omen with a similar fit..
Zhilia Mann	Posted - 2009.10.23 20:40:00 - [18] Edited by: Zhilia Mann on 23/10/2009 20:41:13 Originally by: Washell Olivaw Originally by: lovely song am I missing something here ? Heat sinks Yeah, heat sinks. Damage mods that apply to 3/4 of your weapons have much less effect than those that apply to all of them. Like, about 75%. Also, what was with that fit in the first place? Dual-LAR cap recharge AB fits with long range weapons and tackle ?
Davinel Lulinvega	Posted - 2009.10.23 20:41:00 - [19] Originally by: Terianna Eri Originally by: goazer Originally by: Panzram the citadel torp abaddon is a classic Does that really fit in game??? I think they actually put in a hard-coded rule that you cant fit capital mods to subcapital ships; IIRC the reason given was that it was a way to transport large volumes of minerals by fitting capital mods to battleships or something. kinda sucks but oh well Yeah you could fit offline capital mods to frigates and stick hundreds of them in the maintenance bay of a hangar. Jumping a titan worth of trit in one carrier isn't overpowered at all. Originally by: CCP Tuxford Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke! inb4 stealth edit
1600 RT	Posted - 2009.10.23 22:35:00 - [20] Originally by: lovely song As you may know Apoc doesnt have dps bonus, hence this fit with cruisers should in theory be viable, more over it allows fitting 2 LARs and be cap stable (at 14 mins according to EFT which is pretty much cap stable). [Apocalypse, LV 4 Mission Runner] Large Armor Repairer II Large Armor Repairer II Beta Reactor Control: Diagnostic System I Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I N-Type Adaptive Nano Membrane I N-Type Adaptive Nano Membrane I N-Type Adaptive Nano Membrane I 100MN Afterburner II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Mega Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L Mega Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L Mega Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L Mega Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L Mega Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L Mega Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Discuss ? - also important to understand why are we suing that setup. I suggest that we use it for mission runing however do we really need 2 LARs. Altough there are other applications in PVE, such as running it in Labyrinth in Araz. Those of you who know that plex would agree that 2 LARs are needed in there to run it. Opinions ? my eyes!! im blind now!! x_x

lovely song	Posted - 2009.10.24 00:01:00 - [21] Originally by: 1600 RT my eyes!! im blind now!! x_x Look, I can see where you coming from ! This fit is a bit odd ... But hey, im trying to make some sensible justification here for having 2 launcher slots on Apoc !
A Ingus	Posted - 2009.10.24 01:08:00 - [22] Another justification is that they may have been trying to give these amarr ships some utility in missions against high em resistant rats (guristas, angels). However, even in that it would not be much help. It is better to just cross-train to any of the other races in order to get meaningful kin/explo damage to fling in missions against those rats. I can't see any pvp reason for the launchers, as defenders are worthless. I suppose it might leave an Amarr BS pilot able to use FoF missiles instead of sitting for a while with thumb up ass syndrome while being ecm'd in pvp. But that too is discomforting.
RougeOperator	Posted - 2009.10.24 01:26:00 - [23] Originally by: Amorpheous Cain Rear reason the Abaddon has a launcher slot is so you can fit a Citadel Torp Launcher on it. Quote: [Abaddon, lol] Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot] Citadel Torpedo Launcher I, Thor Torpedo I [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Large Ancillary Current Router I Large Ancillary Current Router I Large Ancillary Current Router I Oh yeah I read this in coolaid mans voice and nearly choked to death on my drink.
Lego Maniac Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.10.24 01:26:00 - [24] Originally by: Washell Olivaw Originally by: lovely song am I missing something here ? Heat sinks an 8th gun as well look, the bottom line to OP is that nobody really cares how you fit your ship in missions, so do whatever you want __________________________________________________________ ˄ ____________ ˄
lovely song	Posted - 2009.10.25 20:10:00 - [25] Its funny how the initial question actually lead to some really unexpected replies, such as citadel torpedo fit :)
Voodoo Ido	Posted - 2009.10.25 20:52:00 - [26] The simplest answer is that it's a relic from the past. Alot of stuff has changed since inception . This leaves some aspects of the game / ships / mods with odd attributes remaining because of some previous intended effect which was superseded by additional changes. There was a time when battleships were the pinnacle of eve's hull choices. Their roles and bonuses were less focused in order to allow a pilot a bit more versatility in fitting choices based on their particular skill set. Over time, ships and modules have evolved massively in many aspects, including swapping hi/mid/low slots, stat boosts / nerfs, hull bonuses, damage mods, etc. You will find the same with most bs's. Some, like a phoon, are meant to fit a split-weapons system. Others, like the rokh, can go all turrets or half/half. On ships like the mega, hyperion, abbaddon, etc. it just seems nonsensical. And a raven with 4 turrets just seems lolfit to me, but it can be done... Like many other things in this super-complicated sandbox, I'm sure they'll get around to it, eventually. Just so long as it's after ambulation. There are a few guys I'd really like to stab in the face.
lovely song	Posted - 2009.10.26 08:16:00 - [27] Thats a great reply and exactly what I had in mind. I had cruisers trained as a relic from the past when SB used to run around with cruise missiles. Now it seems cruise missiles are useless. I think this is fairly bad practice by CCP to change things which make certain skills obsolete. At least change mechanism in certain so that it doesnt make skills redundant or f you do allow people to unlearn those skills. Similar thing happened in case of Tactical Shield Manipulation, when it was removed as skill requirement for Capital Shield, as a lot of people had it for that purpose. On its own its a pretty useless skill for both shield and armor tankers. I know that topic of unlearning/redistributing skills been raised many many times before. And it is very controversial, however imagine someone having trained cruise missiles spec to 5, just to fly SB with maximum efficiency and right now those sp in effect went to waste. Of course I can always wait for Khanid BS to be release (I think Khanid BS would a very skill intensive but awesome machine) or a T3 BS which would allow for a missile subsystem. Those prospects are very uncertain. So that is why I'm trying to figure out if cruise missiles can be usefull on bs instead in any way.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.26 10:04:00 - [28] Originally by: Arakidias You can also make a siege missile Omen with a similar fit.. [Omen, What...] Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Large Shield Extender II Medium Shield Extender II Medium Shield Extender II Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I [empty rig slot]
Zeek Muaka Caldari Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.26 11:02:00 - [29] Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: Arakidias You can also make a siege missile Omen with a similar fit.. [Omen, What...] Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Large Shield Extender II Medium Shield Extender II Medium Shield Extender II Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I [empty rig slot] We need to do a freaking roam with a bunch of these things.


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