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Jerks Dishonoring Ransoms

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Paul Clavet Honorless Internet Jerks	Posted - 2009.10.26 15:02:00 - [1] I trapped a CNR, ransomed him for 135 million, then asploded him anyway. Do you feel that this was a morally acceptable decision? And by that I mean, do you think the carebear should have decided to fly a CNR that he couldn't afford to lose? Discuss. Also, this is a terrible thread. ---- Blog: My Loot, Your Tears
Lord Windu Echelon Warfare Unit	Posted - 2009.10.26 15:15:00 - [2] I used to think that people who dishonour ransoms were in the wrong and slagged them off for doing so, but after years of playing I have realised that Eve is a sandbox and as long as people follow the rules as set by CCP then there is no real right or wrong. The only thing I feel is wrong or immoral is when people abuse real friendships as real friendships > internet spaceships. Everything else goes. ------ In Before Kanye West
Dragas Amitar Gallente Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.10.26 15:18:00 - [3] Confirming that this thread is terrible. Also, all cruise ravens should burn in fire.
Apple Ginger Minmatar United Security Services and Resources	Posted - 2009.10.26 15:19:00 - [4] Your video is unwatchable and lolbattleclinic. I know you are hoping for someone to complain about you r morals. I'm just here to point out that you aren't special. Logit Probit does this far better than you most likely ever will. As for honour, the call is yours... but your seeking approval and your corp name implies you yourself know this to be a jackass thing to do. Frankly go ahead and do it if it geeves your e-peen a little tingle
pleasewontyoulikeme Minmatar We Hide From War Decs	Posted - 2009.10.26 15:21:00 - [5] cool story bro! I also have trouble dealing with real life and social situations. I am very glad there's a game like EvE where we can use the "its just a game" excuse to vent all of our real life frustrations. Its a very good feeling being the person doing the bulling for once doesn't it? Anyways i gots to go flip some cans! hopefully those missioners don't have webs or scrams fitted, then we would be in trouble! YARRR pLs
Durzel The Xenodus Initiative.	Posted - 2009.10.26 15:26:00 - [6] On the one hand you've taught that CNR pilot a valuable lesson. On the other hand you're baiting idiots in a mission hub and talking about it like it's some sort of epic fight for the ages. So, I'm not sure who comes out of this looking worse.
Kalain ap'Sulen Amarr Dirt Nap Squad	Posted - 2009.10.26 15:38:00 - [7] The only thing that I would feel bad about is the fact you've ruined the opprotunity to ransom the guy again. If you let the guy go, you just hook'em back in. When you pop'em after they've paid the ransom they learn to quick to not trust anyone. Quando ami flunkus morti.
SnowRolla	Posted - 2009.10.26 15:50:00 - [8] Never pay ransoms unless it's a group like the bastards, asshats like the OP have made sure I'll never pay, rather ride the lightening. . . As for the carebear in the Raven, where are the logs with the tears? no tears, no big deal, just another wasted thread.
Nidhiesk	Posted - 2009.10.26 15:55:00 - [9] uhh, I dont want to watch that bad video (quality) so tell me here I guess when you flipped him which I think you did he shot back right ? if thats the case its legal for him to lose his ship...plain and simple. If its fitter for missions just dont shoot back FFS. Lots of people in Eve still don't understand that fact.
Bongo Debbie Minmatar Sekret Kool Klubb	Posted - 2009.10.26 15:56:00 - [10] Originally by: Kalain ap'Sulen The only thing that I would feel bad about is the fact you've ruined the opprotunity to ransom the guy again. If you let the guy go, you just hook'em back in. When you pop'em after they've paid the ransom they learn to quick to not trust anyone. Except that... a. CNR was already can baited and 'should' never get caught again anyway b. CNR was dumb enough to pay a ransom to someone with Pauls new corp name c. CNR was unfortunate enough to suffer from the extended aggro mechanic and really ought to have learned never to get flagged again. Its pretty standard practice if you are going to gank mission runners NOT to honour ransoms. ----
Durzel The Xenodus Initiative.	Posted - 2009.10.26 16:17:00 - [11] Originally by: Bongo Debbie Its pretty standard practice if you are going to gank mission runners NOT to honour ransoms. Is it? That seems like a pretty arbitrary unwritten but-apparently-known-to-everyone rule? What's special about mission runners that makes honouring ransoms a waste of time? I would've though the opposite would be the case - they're more likely to have stuff they want to keep.
Bongo Debbie Minmatar Sekret Kool Klubb	Posted - 2009.10.26 16:45:00 - [12] Originally by: Durzel Originally by: Bongo Debbie Its pretty standard practice if you are going to gank mission runners NOT to honour ransoms. Is it? That seems like a pretty arbitrary unwritten but-apparently-known-to-everyone rule? What's special about mission runners that makes honouring ransoms a waste of time? I would've though the opposite would be the case - they're more likely to have stuff they want to keep. Bear in mind this is NOT piracy. It's high sec bear ganking plain and simple. It's best to take them for all they are worth since they really ought to never allow themselves to get baited a second time. I've tried doing this a few times in a Sentinel and while it was fun trying, I haven't quite managed to pull it off yet. It's not really my style of play though tbh. ----
Persephone Astrid The Bastards	Posted - 2009.10.26 17:43:00 - [13] Originally by: SnowRolla Never pay ransoms unless it's a group like the bastards TYVM.
Vigo Larcen Dark Claw Raiders	Posted - 2009.10.26 17:54:00 - [14] Originally by: pleasewontyoulikeme cool story bro! I also have trouble dealing with real life and social situations. I am very glad there's a game like EvE where we can use the "its just a game" excuse to vent all of our real life frustrations. Its a very good feeling being the person doing the bulling for once doesn't it? Anyways i gots to go flip some cans! hopefully those missioners don't have webs or scrams fitted, then we would be in trouble! YARRR pLs Confirming it's just a game. Bro.
PostmasterGeneral Minmatar yo i'm posting	Posted - 2009.10.26 18:06:00 - [15] you could use a new PR guy paul
Kaya Divine Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.10.26 18:09:00 - [16] You think that you`re a man Shoot your shot...
jimmyjam Gallente Sinner Among Saints Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2009.10.26 18:28:00 - [17] Originally by: Paul Clavet I trapped a CNR, ransomed him for 135 million, then asploded him anyway. Do you feel that this was a morally acceptable decision? And by that I mean, do you think the carebear should have decided to fly a CNR that he couldn't afford to lose? Discuss. Also, this is a terrible thread. the only people this really hurts is the other pirates that make a living off doing real ransoms its bad for busness. The morallity of it all is your mind not really for us to decide.I for one have never dishonered a ransom but iam old school a lot of new guys just dont care sad really.
Count MonteCarlo Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2009.10.26 18:42:00 - [18] what a boring play style you have
Paul Clavet Honorless Internet Jerks	Posted - 2009.10.26 19:42:00 - [19] Originally by: Bongo Debbie Bear in mind this is NOT piracy. It's high sec bear ganking plain and simple. It's best to take them for all they are worth since they really ought to never allow themselves to get baited a second time. This. I don't make any claims to being great at PvP, being an uber 0.0 badass, or being an eleet piratey type. I'm a hisec griefer. I may suck at what I do, but damn if I don't have a great time doing it! ---- Blog: My Loot, Your Tears
Kalain ap'Sulen Amarr Dirt Nap Squad	Posted - 2009.10.26 21:18:00 - [20] Originally by: Bongo Debbie Its pretty standard practice if you are going to gank mission runners NOT to honour ransoms. I'd agree that you shouldn't OFFER a ransom if you are planning a gank. That said I do believe that if you offer one and its accepted and paid that you should follow thru with it. Thats just me though, nothing to do with e-bushido. Quando ami flunkus morti.
Srialia Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.10.26 21:37:00 - [21] Originally by: Kalain ap'Sulen Originally by: Bongo Debbie Its pretty standard practice if you are going to gank mission runners NOT to honour ransoms. I'd agree that you shouldn't OFFER a ransom if you are planning a gank. That said I do believe that if you offer one and its accepted and paid that you should follow thru with it. Thats just me though, nothing to do with e-bushido. You're missing the point though. He's not offering a ransom, he's trying to squeeze as much out of the bear as he possibly can. It's not a ransom. It's a trick.
Compleat Bacon	Posted - 2009.10.27 11:35:00 - [22] Please continue this policy. It will make the concept of ransom worthless, thus removing a major source of income for pirates. This will then lower the number of pirates, because it becomes less viable as a business, making lowsec almost usable. Good things come of this.
Dannerkongen Lootex	Posted - 2009.10.27 13:17:00 - [23] if u pay ransom u have no selfrespect and should be exploded yes
Durzel The Xenodus Initiative.	Posted - 2009.10.27 13:19:00 - [24] Originally by: Srialia You're missing the point though. He's not offering a ransom, he's trying to squeeze as much out of the bear as he possibly can. It's not a ransom. It's a trick. Isn't he? If the CNR guy just sent him ISK thinking it would constitute a ransom that's one thing, but if the OP explicitly offered a ransom, received the amount he asked for and then reneged on it - then that's a dishonoured ransom, it's as simple as that.
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.10.27 13:31:00 - [25] Cool story bro. Also he's stupid to think that someone would let a CNR go for 135m
Lucia Wilber King's Pride Manufacturing Inc.	Posted - 2009.10.27 14:02:00 - [26] Edited by: Lucia Wilber on 27/10/2009 14:03:25 Originally by: Paul Clavet This. I don't make any claims to being great at PvP, being an uber 0.0 badass, or being an eleet piratey type. I'm a hisec griefer. I may suck at what I do, but damn if I don't have a great time doing it! This. Do what you enjoy. There's no "right" or "wrong" in a freaking video game. It's a game, and unless you're hacking or otherwise cheating, you're playing within the rules. Saying someone's not playing right is like a football team complaining because the other team is playing within the rules and still won't let them score a touchdown. "But coach! We executed that play perfectly and those griefers still got a touchdown! That's not fair!" "That's part of the game, kid." "But...but, he pretended to hand the ball to one person and then threw it to someone else! He lied to me! I was scammed!"
Velocity Prime Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.10.27 15:25:00 - [27] Nice kill. But Paul, you're ruining the "honorable" pirates chances of getting ransoms in the future! VelociLogic.com
Lazy Eyeh Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.10.27 16:21:00 - [28] Why is it that when I read what Paul writes that I hear the Church Lady from SNL? Well isn't that special...
DONJUAN v Tarnak inc. The Kadeshi	Posted - 2009.10.27 17:13:00 - [29] Originally by: Compleat Bacon Please continue this policy. It will make the concept of ransom worthless, thus removing a major source of income for pirates. This will then lower the number of pirates, because it becomes less viable as a business, making lowsec almost usable. Good things come of this. your name should be compleat moron anyone calling a eve player ''pirate'' has to be . and who ever wants to make isk at pvp , sit in empire in a gang of 10 insured ravens and wait for a big load in a small package now on the ransom matter : ransoming a cnr for 135m is way too low meaning the ''pirate '' as you call them , already planned not to let him go 135m just seems like an offer you cant refuse when your faction bs is in hull on an other note , kadeshi honnor ransoms . if any pilot of my alliance ever pop you after receiving payment , plz feel free to contact me ingame .
Compleat Bacon	Posted - 2009.10.27 18:17:00 - [30] Originally by: DONJUAN v Originally by: Compleat Bacon Please continue this policy. It will make the concept of ransom worthless, thus removing a major source of income for pirates. This will then lower the number of pirates, because it becomes less viable as a business, making lowsec almost usable. Good things come of this. your name should be compleat moron anyone calling a eve player ''pirate'' has to be . and who ever wants to make isk at pvp , sit in empire in a gang of 10 insured ravens and wait for a big load in a small package now on the ransom matter : ransoming a cnr for 135m is way too low meaning the ''pirate '' as you call them , already planned not to let him go 135m just seems like an offer you cant refuse when your faction bs is in hull on an other note , kadeshi honnor ransoms . if any pilot of my alliance ever pop you after receiving payment , plz feel free to contact me ingame . Pass grade school yet? Or is your character less than half your age yet? Basic point was, dishonoring ransoms makes the chance of anyone paying one lower. Personally, I could care less. I don't pay ransoms, and don't generally ask for one. Pirate is an Eve profession. If you don't agree, well, you have a large number of people think it exists.
War Kitten	Posted - 2009.10.27 18:31:00 - [31] Originally by: DONJUAN v your name should be compleat moron anyone calling a eve player ''pirate'' has to be . and who ever wants to make isk at pvp , sit in empire in a gang of 10 insured ravens and wait for a big load in a small package now on the ransom matter : ransoming a cnr for 135m is way too low meaning the ''pirate '' as you call them , already planned not to let him go 135m just seems like an offer you cant refuse when your faction bs is in hull Da facts... you has them all wrong! 135M was the settled-on counter-offer, 500M was the ransom. Go watch the video, then start juggling eggs. "Here's your sign." - Bill Engvall
DONJUAN v Tarnak inc. The Kadeshi	Posted - 2009.10.27 20:00:00 - [32] Originally by: Compleat Bacon Originally by: DONJUAN v Originally by: Compleat Bacon Please continue this policy. It will make the concept of ransom worthless, thus removing a major source of income for pirates. This will then lower the number of pirates, because it becomes less viable as a business, making lowsec almost usable. Good things come of this. your name should be compleat moron anyone calling a eve player ''pirate'' has to be . and who ever wants to make isk at pvp , sit in empire in a gang of 10 insured ravens and wait for a big load in a small package now on the ransom matter : ransoming a cnr for 135m is way too low meaning the ''pirate '' as you call them , already planned not to let him go 135m just seems like an offer you cant refuse when your faction bs is in hull on an other note , kadeshi honnor ransoms . if any pilot of my alliance ever pop you after receiving payment , plz feel free to contact me ingame . Pass grade school yet? Or is your character less than half your age yet? Basic point was, dishonoring ransoms makes the chance of anyone paying one lower. Personally, I could care less. I don't pay ransoms, and don't generally ask for one. Pirate is an Eve profession. If you don't agree, well, you have a large number of people think it exists. im -10 status live only in low sec i live out of fresh corpses and loot i say yarr and not yes i only see a pvper here if you want to put a ''pirate/anti-pirate'' tag onto them , enjoy
Kambiri Zoltana Gallente	Posted - 2009.10.27 23:06:00 - [33] Congrats mr exploit.
A wiseman The Drekla Consortium	Posted - 2009.10.28 03:02:00 - [34] Originally by: Paul Clavet this is a terrible thread. I don't mind it tbh thou the lack of pirate ransom tears is odd. For those to lazy to follow a link thou any notable emo from the cnr guy?
Logit Probit	Posted - 2009.10.28 03:23:00 - [35] Originally by: Paul Clavet Do you feel that this was a morally acceptable decision? Convert to moral relativism. Your industry will be rewarded by the ninja gods in the ninja afterlife.
Akemi Mifune	Posted - 2009.10.29 04:27:00 - [36] Originally by: A wiseman Originally by: Paul Clavet this is a terrible thread. I don't mind it tbh thou the lack of pirate ransom tears is odd. For those to lazy to follow a link thou any notable emo from the cnr guy? In answer to your question: nope, there were no tears or emo involved. 15 minutes had passed (I never docked), so I began warping to the mission. Obviously, the timer didn't expire when I expected it to. While this was happening, I was much more interested in the "game mechanic"/bug/exploit of shooting a wreck to reset the timer than I was in the loss of a ship. Still am, actually. Anywho, I accepted Paul's convo request because I was curious to know how the timer was extended. When he made the ransom attempt, I initially told Paul to just shoot me. When he then offered to let me name my own price, well... what can I say? My curiosity shifted to him for a moment and I was willing to part with 135mil to test out the JGGIFT.
Heloise ChateauBriande	Posted - 2009.10.30 06:46:00 - [37] Originally by: Paul Clavet I trapped a CNR, ransomed him for 135 million, then asploded him anyway. First, this is a terrible thread. Second, you shall burn in hell for spelling "exploded" in a way which calls to mind a large intestine prolapsed through the rectum. As for the kill... it's fine. Everyone else already does the same and this is why it is shocking to me that you got any ISK out of him. Well he has now learned never to pay a ransom again and you got your ISK. Teach every other mission runner this and then we will no longer have terrible "ransom y/n?" threads in here.
Heloise ChateauBriande	Posted - 2009.10.30 07:05:00 - [38] Edited by: Heloise ChateauBriande on 30/10/2009 07:07:28 Originally by: DONJUAN v on an other note , kadeshi honnor ransoms . if any pilot of my alliance ever pop you after receiving payment , plz feel free to contact me ingame . Donjuan, It intrigues me that as a promise-keeper that you would have no opinion about those in the same line of business who don't honor ransom (promises). If you acted as they do then you would have greater profits (in the short run) as they do because you get ransom + loot. However if you both act this way soon no one ever pays ransoms. Every pilot you treat honorably is like a fish you are throwing back in the sea for the other guy to catch. Over the long tun YOU and YOUR CORP are impoverished compared to the toons who ransom/kill. Why do you do this? It is like there is a common resource (missioners) and you are tending it carefully and someone else takes a **** all over it and ruins your work... but you have no opinion about that other guy? Why not? - Helo P.S. I run missions. Only in high sec. Would never be caught or ransomed, period. I don't fly anything I would bother to insure nor would I care if I lost it... I'm just interested in your post. Most interesting thing on the forums in a while IMO. I didn't believe ANYONE honored ransoms anymore.
Terra Mikael Private Nuisance	Posted - 2009.10.30 07:18:00 - [39] Edited by: Terra Mikael on 30/10/2009 07:18:30 Originally by: Paul Clavet I trapped a CNR, ransomed him for 135 million, then asploded him anyway. Do you feel that this was a morally acceptable decision? And by that I mean, do you think the carebear should have decided to fly a CNR that he couldn't afford to lose? Discuss. Also, this is a terrible thread. Ethically acceptable? OP is a ***got ___________ Proof that Daniel Jackson is a ret@rded furry
Pater Peccavi Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.10.30 12:02:00 - [40] Originally by: Heloise ChateauBriande I didn't believe ANYONE honored ransoms anymore. Bastards honor ransoms At least twice _________
Elldranga	Posted - 2009.10.30 15:15:00 - [41] Originally by: Lucia Wilber Edited by: Lucia Wilber on 27/10/2009 14:03:25 Originally by: Paul Clavet This. I don't make any claims to being great at PvP, being an uber 0.0 badass, or being an eleet piratey type. I'm a hisec griefer. I may suck at what I do, but damn if I don't have a great time doing it! This. Do what you enjoy. There's no "right" or "wrong" in a freaking video game. It's a game, and unless you're hacking or otherwise cheating, you're playing within the rules. Saying someone's not playing right is like a football team complaining because the other team is playing within the rules and still won't let them score a touchdown. "But coach! We executed that play perfectly and those griefers still got a touchdown! That's not fair!" "That's part of the game, kid." "But...but, he pretended to hand the ball to one person and then threw it to someone else! He lied to me! I was scammed!" meh... not quite the correct metaphor. There's a difference between a trick and a scam/lie. Tricking him in a way that corresponds to your metaphor would be getting HIM to send money to you for a ransom you never offered. (which there are some VERY good con artists who manage to do this) Just plain lying to him is more like you managed to bring a second ball onto the field without the refs or the other team noticing. The sort of thing that people would call "cheating" if they actually notice it happening. Cheating is easy... not thread worthy.
Heloise ChateauBriande	Posted - 2009.10.31 03:01:00 - [42] Edited by: Heloise ChateauBriande on 31/10/2009 03:02:14 Originally by: Pater Peccavi Originally by: Heloise ChateauBriande I didn't believe ANYONE honored ransoms anymore. Bastards honor ransoms At least twice Thanks for the links. It seems as if they are working hard to get a good reputation. I wonder if they wouldn't just be better off just dishonoring ransoms so they get some ISK (maybe) and the loot? However from their posts it sounds as if they like the challenge and enjoy having the good rep. So that may be the tradeoff: less ISK for better rep. - Helo
Scrutt5 Snuff inc	Posted - 2009.10.31 03:37:00 - [43] Well, I can honstly say I have never taken a ransom and not let the guy go. There is (believe it or not), honor in piracy, wether the guy was flying a ship he could afford to lose isn't the issue here, the issue is your moral integrity. If your comfortable with a two faced image thats cool, broadcasting it to the community .... seriously un-cool. If the directors of your corp read this n keep you in employment I would suggest you look for a better corp. All in all you have made a complete arse out of yourself sir.
Judgement Dave	Posted - 2009.10.31 04:09:00 - [44] LOL you suck, thanks to your own vid for the link... http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Paul+Clavet
Cyberin Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.10.31 05:13:00 - [45] You sir, are an honorless internet jerk!...and I find this quite tasteful :D Hands Off, My Loots!
Roland Deschaines Minmatar The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre	Posted - 2009.11.01 08:46:00 - [46] Do you shoot one of his yellow wrecks, or do you steal from one and then shoot it? -- Monsieur Rolly
General Coochie The Bastards The Bastards.	Posted - 2009.11.02 02:13:00 - [47] Edited by: General Coochie on 02/11/2009 02:14:51 Originally by: Heloise ChateauBriande Thanks for the links. It seems as if they are working hard to get a good reputation. I wonder if they wouldn't just be better off just dishonoring ransoms so they get some ISK (maybe) and the loot? However from their posts it sounds as if they like the challenge and enjoy having the good rep. So that may be the tradeoff: less ISK for better rep. - Helo Loot is barely worth anything these days. It cannot compare to ransom isk. Getting like one extra ransom in 10 kills due to our rep easily outweighs the potential looted isk. Good rep gives more isk then the loot I'm sure off it. Good rep also gives attention and recruits. If you wanna play the evil guy and feel special about it. Go watch vasili von holst (or what his name was) and you know where the bar is at, at the moment. One dishonored ransom post on eve-o is pretty unspectacular. Got Cooch?, solo PvP movie

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