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lord cyrez
Caldari
Orbis Aeternitas
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Posted - 2009.10.31 08:00:00 -
[1]
ahoy fellow pilots,
i'd like to adress a lacking mechanic / a point of inconvenience and collect some opinions from you folks.
topic: moving rigged ships, especially battleships.
the orca is already a good solution for small to medium size craft, however its ship maintenance bay (SMB) is a bit limited.
about a year ago there was that nice Q+A session with zulupark, him answering a whole bunch of player questions. someone raised the proposal of a "ferry"-class ship with the sole purpose of moving rigged ships and zulupark mentioned being fairly interested in such a vessel. (see end of post for links)
so far nothing more evolved from it. since i recently moved quite a load of ships again, that proposal came back to mind and i now invested some more thoughts into it. the following points are from my thoughts only so far, everything open for your point of view.
whats the use?
 personal use: moving home system? probably lots of ships to be carried over to your new place
corporate/alliance use: moving base of operations? get a few of those ferrys and pilots and they'll bring lots of spares within the first moving run
trade use: seen that cheap pirate BS? too bad its rigged and you lack the crosstraining, missing a fortune of selling it somewhere else for a higher price
?
apart from the "easy" solution of just adding "racial freighter model" + SMB + skills as another tier of freighters, i just had a neat idea to really give it some special flavor (at least in my opinion):
create "open" ships. they consist of core structure/systems, a frame and a huge forcefield - in which the ships would kind of "float". you could "look at" that passing by ferry barge and see what ships he actually is moving. (would only be loaded upon a "look at" event, to avoid unnecessary client stress)
gameplay mechanics:
cannot carry any ship which is built from capital parts (includes freighters + orca) - to prevent a massive influx of carriers into highsec ;)
huge mass to prevent easy import/export of ships into/from wormholes
probably even slower and less agile than a freighter
cargo scanner should list the ships being carried, ship scanner should even list the fitting of each ship being carried
usual drop rules: ferry gets popped, you get your chance to "loot" some now free floating ships including fittings
?
skills, attributes and cost:
skills: maybe racial industrial 5, racial ferry barge 1, advanced spaceship command X, plus inevitable (and maybe additional minor) pre-reqs
attributes: small cargohold, no corp hangar, no jump drive, huuuge SMB - like 3, 4 or 5 million m3. 4 million m3 would equal 8 battleships (or 400 navitas ^^)
cost: rather expensive, freighter-level or above, will need lots of capital ship maintenance bay parts to assemble
i didnt think of any names yet, since some obvious ones like "charon" and "fenrir" are in use already.
but i did have images in my mind, which i tried to get drawn in some raw schematics.
i also tried to match racial design flavors a bit, but i'm no graphics dude, just toyed around and they're very basic schematics - matter of taste anyway :P
maybe novafox or some other graphic guy can make something shiny up.
Amarr
Caldari
Gallente
Minmatar
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lord cyrez
Caldari
Orbis Aeternitas
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Posted - 2009.10.31 08:01:00 -
[2]
so... hoping to read some of your opinions now:
does such a ship make sense to you, or do you prefer to move larger ships one-by-one (as of now)?
if you'd want / need one - how about SMB size, other ship attributes and the price tag?
how do you think about possibly required skills to fly such a ship?
anything else to be considered for game mechanics?
asking specifically in general discussion because the audience is quite large. would like to crosspost into ships+modules, but since crossposting is bad - maybe you'd spread the word to corp mates.
if the general feedback turns out positive, i'd compile it to a proposal-thread for the CSM forums and we'll see how it goes on from there.
i for one at least do see a need for such ships, since moving multiple battleships for a sum of a hundred jumps or more is just frustrating/boring/annoying/younameit...
thanks for reading / skimming that truckload of letters ;)
links to the initial proposal and zuluparks statements:
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=924852&page=2#52
Not a bad idea, will pass along.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=924852&page=4#106
...there was a suggestion somewhere in the thread about a ship transporter, a ferry ship, that I thought was pretty cool. Maybe we'll see that happen some day.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=924852&page=6#175
I was personally more fond of the "Ferry" ship as a class on its own.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=924852&page=7#195
Nothing planned for now, but I've said that I'm interested in the "Ferry" idea.
and thx to chribba, first time upload on eve-files - no need to register is awesome :)
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Avalon Champion
Gallente Defence Evaluation Research Agency
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Posted - 2009.10.31 08:30:00 -
[3]
Interesting idea, and would like to see this implemented, however this is probably the wrong forum, assembly hall would be better, so the CSM are aware.
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Trident Ested
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Posted - 2009.10.31 08:43:00 -
[4]
Definately make it over a billion isk and also give it no fitting slots as a freighter has.
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Sader Rykane
Amarr
Midnight Sentinels
Midnight Space Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.10.31 09:04:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Sader Rykane on 31/10/2009 09:04:16
For the sake of game balance, make the ships inside scannable and let this ship be as "gankable" as a regular freighter.
However, considering this is such a well thought out and awesome idea that even has illustrations....
CCP will never implement it.,
*EDIT*
Oh and I would so buy this... not because I need it, but because the Amarrian one looks awesome.
Sig Gallery is currently down: Contact me ingame for prices.
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eliminator2
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.10.31 09:19:00 -
[6]
give the ferry a very small cargo hold (not ship hanger but cargo) so they carnt carry as much models around as well this wouldnt interfear with the frieghter role then
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I met Eliminator1..... I chewed it up, and spat it out. Now, he is my minion.
I kill miners and mission runners people say, I call them target pra |
Nareg Maxence
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.10.31 09:32:00 -
[7]
Wrong forum for this, but let me just add that a rumor is floating around that the rename of moms to supercarriers is done to make room in the vocabulary for a new gigantic mothership that will be bigger than titans and will be specifically able to ferry ships around.
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Dannerkongen
Lootex
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Posted - 2009.10.31 09:43:00 -
[8]
 Originally by: Nareg Maxence
Wrong forum for this, but let me just add that a rumor is floating around that the rename of moms to supercarriers is done to make room in the vocabulary for a new gigantic mothership that will be bigger than titans and will be specifically able to ferry ships around.
lol
id like to see that! it sounds so stupid!
hey joe! can u pls haul my lame ccc raven in ur ~50Bil ship
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Cetearyl Octanoate
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Posted - 2009.10.31 10:01:00 -
[9]
I like the graphic. Don't let Nova tought it, he'll just ruin it.
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Xtreem
Gallente
Knockaround Guys Inc.
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Posted - 2009.10.31 10:05:00 -
[10]
i am from 03, i have many many different classes and often change direction and thus location in eve, as such it takes me an age to move a few ships over, a ship type like this would be very welcome by me
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Joe
Umbra Legion
Shadow Empire.
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Posted - 2009.10.31 10:21:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Dannerkongen
hey joe! can u pls haul my lame ccc raven in ur ~50Bil ship
Sounds like an obvious trap. |
Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.10.31 10:58:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Ezekiel Sulastin on 31/10/2009 10:58:45
Originally by: lord cyrez
you could "look at" that passing by ferry barge and see what ships he actually is moving. (would only be loaded upon a "look at" event, to avoid unnecessary client stress)
Actually, make them just load the ship model, as it would look amazing to pass by a group of these in a trade hub with ships nestled within. Just pray it isn't 10000000 shuttles :p
Additionally, this would provide the impetus for CCP to scale up carrier/supercarrier/titan sizes, because we could see exactly what a ship that could carry x BS would look like! Double win!
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Cadde
Gallente
221st Century Warfare
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Posted - 2009.10.31 11:12:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Cadde on 31/10/2009 11:14:08
OP, great stuff. --> Features and ideas is that way --> (Mention it to the CSM as well)
Originally by: Ezekiel Sulastin
Actually, make them just load the ship model, as it would look amazing to pass by a group of these in a trade hub with ships nestled within. Just pray it isn't 10000000 shuttles :p
A limit to only hold Cruiser size or larger would remedy this issue.
EDIT:
Reasoning behind that would be...
"This ship cannot hold ships smaller than X M¦ due to the anchoring mechanics.
My opinions belong to me, you can't have them!
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Real Poison
Minmatar
Stormlord Battleforce
Vanguard.
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Posted - 2009.10.31 11:40:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Real Poison on 31/10/2009 11:40:42
what about a "Tug" ship.
like an industrial shuttle.
- basically no cargohold
- can tow any subcapital
- inherits the maneuvarability and speed of the towed ship (unless that ship is faster or more agile) plus a drawback depending on ship skill
- doesn't require to be able to pilot the towed ship
- same or even more restrictive in what the towed ship can carry in cargo like when transported in a carrier
problems i see with game mechanics:
what happens when the tow would be killed (or suicide ganked), should the transported ship die with it? should it float in space up for grabs?
but yeah, this thread should be moved to ships and ideas
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Nova Fox
Gallente
Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2009.10.31 12:11:00 -
[15]
my shipyard is open for business I can do some work for cheap. Currently Im having to redo my corvettes however you did most of the ground work already should be easier for me (and cheaper for you)
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1717
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.10.31 12:23:00 -
[16]
Just logged in to say this is an awesome idea. Very nice op.
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5pinDizzy
Amarr
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.10.31 12:28:00 -
[17]
Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 31/10/2009 12:34:08
I was going to say I think the ships that could conceal and move multiple battleships are too big to be taken seriously as another capital that happily moves around empire gatea at any decent speed.
But you seem to be on the same wavelength as me anyway after reading your post OP.
I too wouldn't mind your idea, and even without forcefields, I'd still quite like some form of 'tugboat' like an ingame version of those lorries you see moving cars around.
Clamped down in a line on the ship in full view. :D
First impression of looking at your first design was positive but after seeing the version for all four races I went off it as they're all too similar.
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ThrudUK
Caldari
The Cursed Navy
eXsecratio Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.31 13:01:00 -
[18]
This is a great idea. Moving assets is a major pain in the ass.
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Shoukei
Caldari
Boobs Ahoy
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Posted - 2009.10.31 13:17:00 -
[19]
Awesome work. CCP, do make it happen! 
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T0Y
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Posted - 2009.10.31 13:30:00 -
[20]
Very clever and good idea.
Supported here. 
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Krats
The Pioneers
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Posted - 2009.10.31 13:46:00 -
[21]
I'm bored, if you ask nice I'll work up some of your concepts for free
http://krats.deviantart.com/gallery/#EVE-related
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Nooo! The cake can't be a lie!!
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CCP Zymurgist
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.10.31 14:43:00 -
[22]
Moved to Features and Ideas Discussion.
Zymurgist
Community Representative
CCP Hf, EVE Online
Contact us |
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Phocas
Amarr
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.10.31 23:14:00 -
[23]
This is a great idea. The inability to do this is probably the most annoying thing (to me) in the game right now, and the reason I rarely use rigs.
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Dacryphile
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Posted - 2009.11.01 04:32:00 -
[24]
Like it.
/signed
Originally by: Doc Robertson
...take a good look at this pic and tell us which one is you.
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Mike C
Caldari
Ipuvaepe Industries
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Posted - 2009.11.01 15:53:00 -
[25]
It's not needed. Most freighters (my fenrir can hold a typhoon and a widow) can already hold two battleships, just put them in courier contracts.
__________________________________________________
Originally by: Mike C
Trolls - We keep Humanity alive... and kicking...
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Slobodanka
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Posted - 2009.11.01 16:29:00 -
[26]
You can courier more than 120k m3 now?
Just for the sake of being ontopic, why not just make tier 2 (not tech 2) freighter, give it carriers' ship maintenance bay (could be bigger really, but that's just my humble wishes), no cargo, no fittings, same tank as tier 1 freighters. Can only store assembled ships (cargo limitations of stored ships same as carrier - only ammo). Price should be a bit higher than tier 1 freighter. No new skills needed.
Basically freighter that transports assembled ships instead of loose cargo.
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Xanos Blackpaw
Amarr
Inadeptus Mechanicus
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Posted - 2009.11.01 17:32:00 -
[27]
Awesome. I love it and so do many others. Would be so damn practical and nice to be able to move your ships around easly.
In other words it will never happen.
________________________________________________
Tau - Yeah we suck in close combat. To bad you will never get there. For the greater good!!
Quote: "I love Australia! Our spiders have health bars. |
BrysonBennington
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Posted - 2009.11.01 18:17:00 -
[28]
Why not just gut one of the freighters already being used in game for the same use? Instead of making various cargo berthing decks and other facilities take the idea of piping and tethers from the new design and an implement the interior design of the ship with the freighter. Something Old and Something New. The rigged ships would load from the ventral,the bottom or underneath,portion of the ship for those who are nautically deficient. As the first ship is loaded into the ventral section of the ferry, the ship would be guided by internal tractor beams that would position the ship in it's docking berth. Once securely in it's berth, the ship would have capital class tractor beam emitters holding the ship in place during transit. I would have to say that the ferry should come in three class types.
Class One Ferry: Frigates to Cruisers
Class Two Ferry: Tech Three Cruisers to Battlecruiser
Class Three Ferry: BattleShips and Dreadnoughts
Each class will have to have a total amount of volume of ship handling. Each class type's volume of ship storage space available should be based off of the largest available type of ship for each class. Here is an example.
I will name the Small Ferry Class IO.
IO is the ferry that will transport rigged frigate's and cruiser's. The IO is a non race specific ferry that has had the largest frigate, destroyer and cruiser in New Eden factored in for the purpose of designing the berthing space of the IO.
The IO will have five total bething facilities available to haul rigged ships. Each berth will be able to securely tranpsort the following number of rigged ships:
Each berth would have a total berth volume of 120,000 m3. The berth volume space is based off of the Arbitrator which is the largest cruiser type ship in New Eden. An additional 300 m3 of berth volume per berth has been alloted for each berth to allow for a tolerance in loading and off loading of each ship as well as providing a tolerance during flight. This is too allow the attached rigs to not come in conact with one another during flight or while loading and offloading.
The total berth volume for each berth would be 120,300m3. The total amount of ship berthing volume that the IO would allow the ferry captain to transport would be 601,500 m3 of unpackaged and rigged ships. Per berth breakdown is as follows.
Per berth: One rigged cruiser of upto 120,000m3 + 300m3 of additional rigged volume. ( based off of a rigged Arbitrator)
Two rigged destroyers of upto 55,000m3 + 300m3 of additional rigged volume. (based off a rigged Catalyst)
Four rigged frigates of upto 29,500m3 + 300m3 of additional rigged volume. (based off a rigged Incursus)
Total number of rigged ships that can be transported at one time are as follows:
Five cruisers upto 610,500 m3 of total rigged ship volume.
Ten destroyers upto 553,000 m3 total + one frigate of 29,300 m3 of rigged ship volume.(583,300 m3 rsv total)
Twenty frigates upto 596,000 m3 total rigged ship volume.
Deployment times for each class of ship in a berth are as follows:
Cruiser: 1:30 min/second
Destroyer::45 secs.
Frigate: :30 secs.
It should be noted that when you berth a ship or group of ships you must also take into account what type of ships you want launched first. If you berth a group of four frigates in berth one and then use the remaing berths to berth cruisers in but want the deploy the frigates first, you would would have to berth the frigates last or you will have to wait until the cruisers have been deployed to deploy the frigates. So when berthing your ships make sure that you berth your ships in the order that you want the ships to be deployed in.
The ferry/rigged ship transport that will be able to transport ships upto to battlecruisers will be able to use the jump gates.
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BrysonBennington
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Posted - 2009.11.01 19:09:00 -
[29]
With the option of the small and medium class of rigged ship ferries/transports being able to employ a jump drive engine to create their own cynosural jump portal. The large class of rigged ship ferry/transport would not be able to use the jumpgate and would therefore have to use it's own jump drive engine and cynosural portal generation network. Fitting would include six high slot's, Four medium slots and three low slots. These types of ships would be considered tech three but would not be built from Sleeper components and would therefore need to use tech three modules in certain slots.
High Slots - 6: Five high slots would be used for each of the corresponding berths of the ship. The high slot would need to be fit with either one of the four types of berthing mooring arrays depending on the type of ship berthed:
Cruiser Mooring Array - will moor one cruiser in each berth. ( one mooring array icon)
Destroyer Mooring Array - will moor two destroyers in each berth.
(one mooring array icon, two mooring arrays)
Frigate Mooring Array - will moor four frigates in each berth.
(one mooring array icon, four mooring arrays)
Combination Mooring Array - will moor two destroyers + assorted smaller ships totalling 120,000m3 of
rigged ships in each berth.
(one mooring array icon, two mooring array's + five mini mooring array's)
The sixth high slot could be used for any tech one or tech two module ranging from a cloak module to a small weapon for
self protection.
The medium slots would be used for one tech three MWD or AB + three tech one or tech two modules that would be fit with whatever the pilot chooses to fit in these slots.
The low slots would be able to be fitted at the discretion of the pilot.
There would be two rig slots calibrated at 100 points total where tech three rigged ship ferry/transports rigs could be used. These rigs would include:
Cloaking Enhancement Rig: would allow for the transport to increase it's foward velocity by %50 with a drawback of 20% being placed on the capicitor use. The CER's bonus would only be available if the corresponding tech three transport cloak and tech three MWD or AB were fit on the ship at the same time.
Decreased Deployment Rig would allow for an increased deployment time of the ships berthed in the ships berthing area's. The bonuses would be as follows:
Cruiser: +15 second decrease in deployment time per berth.
Destroyer: +10 second decrease in deployment per each destroyer in each berth.
Frigate: +20 second decrease in deployment per each frigate in each berth.
TheDDR's increase in deployment rate decrease is due to a computer program associated with the rig that removes the human potential to cause an error based on non-calculated judgement, which the rig's computer will have adjusted the rate of the berthing operating mechanincs to provide a flawless set of operating instructions to the various modules and ship's systems used to deploy the ship from each each berth.
Jump Drive Generation: The JDGwill decrease the time that the transport has to wait to make a make the jump by increasing the signal of it's own cynosural field generator. This is achieved by incorporating information learned from W-Space wormholes into the computing mainframe of the Cynosural programming network.
The amount of time that it would take the IO to generate it's own cynosural field would be decreased by 25% per JDG fit.
If two JDG ship ferries/transports are used to bridge the cynosural between one another an additional 5% decrease in cynosural field generation time is added for a 30% decrease in CFGT.
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Eli Porter
Amarr
Altruism.
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Posted - 2009.11.01 19:50:00 -
[30]
A ship big enough to fit a few dozen unpacked Battleships should not be able to fit through gates. If you want to transport rigged Battleships through highsec then just pilot the damn thing or get a friend to do it for you if you can't.
The need for a massive rigged BS transporter arises during alliance deployment in times of war. That's the only situation where I see a ship like this being used properly.
And even then many people in 0.0 alliances have enough SP to carry their personal fleet ships inside their Carriers during mass deployment. For those that don't have Carriers, there are alliance Titans used to ferry their fleet ships.
A simpler solution to all of this would be giving Titans a much larger ship maintenance bay(Double?), to further compensate for their lost wtfpwn combat role. However with the current amount of Titans in-game I'm not sure that's even necessary.
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