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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Kalbak
   |
Posted - 2004.11.03 09:43:00 -
[1]
So I just got hit with unrent lab slot bug too and I'm not happy. Of course CCP says too bad for me. Wouldn't be so bad if there were even a small chance of getting a replacement in safe space. Yeah, right.
Slowly raising the price is NOT an adequate solution. More slots need to be made available and/or restrictions need to be made to how many each account can hold, e.g. limit the amount a main char and all alts can have, just like training has restrictions to one char per account at a time. CCP could even add a new 10x multiplier lab operations skill to make it harder to qualify for multiple slots so specialists would have a better chance to actually be RESEARCHERS.
Anyway, enough ranting. Maybe if we keep posting, CCP will do something about it.
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Kalbak
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Posted - 2004.11.03 09:43:00 -
[2]
So I just got hit with unrent lab slot bug too and I'm not happy. Of course CCP says too bad for me. Wouldn't be so bad if there were even a small chance of getting a replacement in safe space. Yeah, right.
Slowly raising the price is NOT an adequate solution. More slots need to be made available and/or restrictions need to be made to how many each account can hold, e.g. limit the amount a main char and all alts can have, just like training has restrictions to one char per account at a time. CCP could even add a new 10x multiplier lab operations skill to make it harder to qualify for multiple slots so specialists would have a better chance to actually be RESEARCHERS.
Anyway, enough ranting. Maybe if we keep posting, CCP will do something about it.
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Evil Timmy
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Posted - 2004.11.03 10:19:00 -
[3]
Maybe the price should scale depending on how many lab slots are used in a particular station. Thus, you can spend a lot on a lab slot in an easily-accessible, high-sec station, or find someplace more out of the way, with less people, and pay less money for it. Having to pay millions to get any lab slot in safe space shows there's a problem with the supply, and some effort should be made to ramp them up.
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Evil Timmy
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Posted - 2004.11.03 10:19:00 -
[4]
Maybe the price should scale depending on how many lab slots are used in a particular station. Thus, you can spend a lot on a lab slot in an easily-accessible, high-sec station, or find someplace more out of the way, with less people, and pay less money for it. Having to pay millions to get any lab slot in safe space shows there's a problem with the supply, and some effort should be made to ramp them up.
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Corwin Drey
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Posted - 2004.11.03 11:00:00 -
[5]
I have now been playing for almost a year and I have never even seen a free lab slot. Raising the price is no solution as the large corps and long time players will always have the funds to hold them. New players will just not have a chance.
Labs and manufacturing is one aspect of eve I want to explore but its just not possible at the moment.
How about having labs that only can research certain types of blueprint and the more expensive the blueprint the more expensive the lab time. That way people would not hog labs that produce the same thing and it would also be geared to the wealth of the player or corp so new players could get a look in.
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Corwin Drey
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Posted - 2004.11.03 11:00:00 -
[6]
I have now been playing for almost a year and I have never even seen a free lab slot. Raising the price is no solution as the large corps and long time players will always have the funds to hold them. New players will just not have a chance.
Labs and manufacturing is one aspect of eve I want to explore but its just not possible at the moment.
How about having labs that only can research certain types of blueprint and the more expensive the blueprint the more expensive the lab time. That way people would not hog labs that produce the same thing and it would also be geared to the wealth of the player or corp so new players could get a look in.
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IonHammer
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Posted - 2004.11.03 11:11:00 -
[7]
yes lab slots suck atm and rental periods need to be 7 days not 5 a lot play on the weekend so 5 days is a real drag. Non of this matters as you cant get them anyhow.
it would be ok by me if research agent could also do lab work and research at the same time.
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IonHammer
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Posted - 2004.11.03 11:11:00 -
[8]
yes lab slots suck atm and rental periods need to be 7 days not 5 a lot play on the weekend so 5 days is a real drag. Non of this matters as you cant get them anyhow.
it would be ok by me if research agent could also do lab work and research at the same time.
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Jocca Quinn
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Posted - 2004.11.03 12:06:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Jocca Quinn on 03/11/2004 12:09:16
How about limiting the number of labs you can rent to the level of Lab Ops Skill that you have ...
That should free some up.
JQ
none of us are free
as long as one of us is chained
none of us are free |
Jocca Quinn
|
Posted - 2004.11.03 12:06:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Jocca Quinn on 03/11/2004 12:09:16
How about limiting the number of labs you can rent to the level of Lab Ops Skill that you have ...
That should free some up.
JQ
none of us are free
as long as one of us is chained
none of us are free |
Shakul
|
Posted - 2004.11.03 12:06:00 -
[11]
 Originally by: Kalbak
So I just got hit with unrent lab slot bug too and I'm not happy. Of course CCP says too bad for me. Wouldn't be so bad if there were even a small chance of getting a replacement in safe space. Yeah, right.
Slowly raising the price is NOT an adequate solution. More slots need to be made available and/or restrictions need to be made to how many each account can hold, e.g. limit the amount a main char and all alts can have, just like training has restrictions to one char per account at a time. CCP could even add a new 10x multiplier lab operations skill to make it harder to qualify for multiple slots so specialists would have a better chance to actually be RESEARCHERS.
Anyway, enough ranting. Maybe if we keep posting, CCP will do something about it.
Yes, ideally the % price increase would also change (e.g. 5% up today, 10% up tomorrow), so an equilibrium price would be reached faster. However, once this price is reached, it won't really matter anymore. There are limits. One account has 3 characters with a maximum of 18 labs. Making slots available would only lower prices, thats all. It would be useless without the price changes. I'm not saying its a bad thing to lower prices, im just saying that price changes are the most critical part of any solution to the lab hoarding problem.
Auction your items for isk, works sort of like ebay. |
Shakul
|
Posted - 2004.11.03 12:06:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Kalbak
So I just got hit with unrent lab slot bug too and I'm not happy. Of course CCP says too bad for me. Wouldn't be so bad if there were even a small chance of getting a replacement in safe space. Yeah, right.
Slowly raising the price is NOT an adequate solution. More slots need to be made available and/or restrictions need to be made to how many each account can hold, e.g. limit the amount a main char and all alts can have, just like training has restrictions to one char per account at a time. CCP could even add a new 10x multiplier lab operations skill to make it harder to qualify for multiple slots so specialists would have a better chance to actually be RESEARCHERS.
Anyway, enough ranting. Maybe if we keep posting, CCP will do something about it.
Yes, ideally the % price increase would also change (e.g. 5% up today, 10% up tomorrow), so an equilibrium price would be reached faster. However, once this price is reached, it won't really matter anymore. There are limits. One account has 3 characters with a maximum of 18 labs. Making slots available would only lower prices, thats all. It would be useless without the price changes. I'm not saying its a bad thing to lower prices, im just saying that price changes are the most critical part of any solution to the lab hoarding problem.
Auction your items for isk, works sort of like ebay. |
Jim Steele
|
Posted - 2004.11.03 14:23:00 -
[13]
signed..
make them unrent when the reserch finishes and charge per batch
Death to the Galante |
Jim Steele
|
Posted - 2004.11.03 14:23:00 -
[14]
signed..
make them unrent when the reserch finishes and charge per batch
Death to the Galante |
Leisha Kael
|
Posted - 2004.11.03 15:54:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Leisha Kael on 03/11/2004 16:42:24
Hello guys,
May I bring to your attention a service I'm offering to help this situation
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=118354&page=1
Although not ideal if you wish to conduct the research it is an alternative until CCP sort labs out
Thankyou
L
He that plants thorns must never expect to gather roses, English Proverb
|
Leisha Kael
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Posted - 2004.11.03 15:54:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Leisha Kael on 03/11/2004 16:42:24
Hello guys,
May I bring to your attention a service I'm offering to help this situation
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=118354&page=1
Although not ideal if you wish to conduct the research it is an alternative until CCP sort labs out
Thankyou
L
He that plants thorns must never expect to gather roses, English Proverb
|
Shakul
|
Posted - 2004.11.04 01:00:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Jim Steele
signed..
make them unrent when the reserch finishes and charge per batch
why? the price increased will fix the problem (when they stop going up).
Auction your items for isk, works sort of like ebay. |
Shakul
|
Posted - 2004.11.04 01:00:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Jim Steele
signed..
make them unrent when the reserch finishes and charge per batch
why? the price increased will fix the problem (when they stop going up).
Auction your items for isk, works sort of like ebay. |
Lem Smith
|
Posted - 2004.11.04 01:33:00 -
[19]
I agree, there should be more rent slots and a limit on how many you can have at one time.
signed.....
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Lem Smith
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Posted - 2004.11.04 01:33:00 -
[20]
I agree, there should be more rent slots and a limit on how many you can have at one time.
signed.....
|
Gungankllr
|
Posted - 2004.11.04 10:39:00 -
[21]
At least you've ever had a labslot...
www.hadean.org
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Gungankllr
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Posted - 2004.11.04 10:39:00 -
[22]
At least you've ever had a labslot...
www.hadean.org
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Darlerorian
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Posted - 2004.11.04 11:00:00 -
[23]
Signed.
In general, in this game, there is not a "comfortable" enviroment for a new player.
I¦m sure with this system I¦ll never see a free lab slot for me, such others things in this game.
Long time players has all the advantages, but new ones must have more attractive things to continue playing and hopes to develop the character the way they need.
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Darlerorian
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Posted - 2004.11.04 11:00:00 -
[24]
Signed.
In general, in this game, there is not a "comfortable" enviroment for a new player.
I¦m sure with this system I¦ll never see a free lab slot for me, such others things in this game.
Long time players has all the advantages, but new ones must have more attractive things to continue playing and hopes to develop the character the way they need.
|
d'hofren
|
Posted - 2004.11.04 11:25:00 -
[25]
I feel that the labslot problem is tied to the unrent issue. Basically it's a closed loop;
People fill labslots with runs to research jobs to 10000 ME because they know that not using a labslot for a week will "unrent" it.
This ties up all the existing labslots.
Because there aren't any available free labslots people panic that they might loose whatever slots they have at the moment so they fill up all thier existing slots with research jobs taking BP's to 10K ME.
So all the slots are rented.
So they don't see any free slots in any other stations they visit.
So they panic and make sure all current slots are filled with bps researching.
Ad infinitum.
There must be hundreds of hardly used Me1000 blue prints out there!
Really it's pretty much like a housing market boom. All CCP need to do is fix the unrent bug. After a month or so that should remove the hoarding paranoia and availability of slots should become more common place.
I suspect, (but don't allege!), CCP may be allowing the unrent bug to proliferate in order to keep up a steady turnover of slots. IMHO this is entirely about face. They need to fix the bug and either limit the number of slots a player can hold or limit the amount of research that can be performed on a BP. Either way they need to reduce the slot demand to increase slot turnover. Limiting the amount of research that can be performed on a BP would force the hoarders to trade bpc's on escrow. After all creating bpc's will be the only way to keep a slot occupied ad infinitum. The flood of bpc's should result in non slot holders getting some benefit from others research. In short it means that anyone wanting to hold a slot for an extended period HAS to become a BPC trader. The market should stay sane because players PE and mineral prices will still dictate the sale price of "home" produced items.
I did manage to find a slot after a few weeks of looking, I made a quick three station path and checked it every morning before work while ironing my shirt! I found a slot in a 0.7 system within a week.
|
d'hofren
|
Posted - 2004.11.04 11:25:00 -
[26]
I feel that the labslot problem is tied to the unrent issue. Basically it's a closed loop;
People fill labslots with runs to research jobs to 10000 ME because they know that not using a labslot for a week will "unrent" it.
This ties up all the existing labslots.
Because there aren't any available free labslots people panic that they might loose whatever slots they have at the moment so they fill up all thier existing slots with research jobs taking BP's to 10K ME.
So all the slots are rented.
So they don't see any free slots in any other stations they visit.
So they panic and make sure all current slots are filled with bps researching.
Ad infinitum.
There must be hundreds of hardly used Me1000 blue prints out there!
Really it's pretty much like a housing market boom. All CCP need to do is fix the unrent bug. After a month or so that should remove the hoarding paranoia and availability of slots should become more common place.
I suspect, (but don't allege!), CCP may be allowing the unrent bug to proliferate in order to keep up a steady turnover of slots. IMHO this is entirely about face. They need to fix the bug and either limit the number of slots a player can hold or limit the amount of research that can be performed on a BP. Either way they need to reduce the slot demand to increase slot turnover. Limiting the amount of research that can be performed on a BP would force the hoarders to trade bpc's on escrow. After all creating bpc's will be the only way to keep a slot occupied ad infinitum. The flood of bpc's should result in non slot holders getting some benefit from others research. In short it means that anyone wanting to hold a slot for an extended period HAS to become a BPC trader. The market should stay sane because players PE and mineral prices will still dictate the sale price of "home" produced items.
I did manage to find a slot after a few weeks of looking, I made a quick three station path and checked it every morning before work while ironing my shirt! I found a slot in a 0.7 system within a week.
|
TotensBurntCorpse
|
Posted - 2004.11.04 18:16:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Kalbak
So I just got hit with unrent lab slot bug too and I'm not happy. ....so specialists would have a better chance to actually be RESEARCHERS.
I am a relative new player. But I had the fortunate luck to find an unrented lab slot while doing a low level courier agent mission. So I rented the sucker and opened a corp office there to manage it. But so summarize MY frustrations...
- cannot find a lab for rent (but i lucked out)
- buying a lab is expensive (auctions go in the 7-15 million range)
- there is no mechanism to protect you during a lab purchase from being ripped off (one of my buddies in another corp was ripped off 8 million this way, as either the seller gets ripped or the buyer get ripped)
- rented labs by longer playing time persons effectively shuts out new players (which i hope is NOT CPPs goal)
- having an empty lab then paying rent makes you lose the lab slot
- a general lack of good instructions or hand book by CPP on how to play this game without trolling these boards for the excellent information put forward by other players
I would propose this to deal with the lab slot availability (or lack thereof!)....
1) One Character can control = ONE LAB = ONE FACTORY at any one time, thats it no more, no multiple labs or facts. This is slanted towards freeing up and turning over labs and factories more often. AND making players really pay attention to what they want to research.
2) Make rentals of labs and factories more expensive to operate (ie hog). First 5 days rental is regular rate. Second five days is double the first fives rental rate. Third five days rental is double the seconds etc.
So a 10K lab rental for 5 periods of total 50K, can balloon to 10+20+40+80+160 = 310K Using this progression quite soon ANYONE would not be able to afford to rent a lab continuously. Rerenting a lab would reset the rental rates.
3) Limit the duration a character can rent a lab without a "vacation". UNRENTING for a proscribed period of time, say one rental period in four. This really hits the guys doing the ME 1000 BPO's to lock up a lab. The lab could be rerented quickly by a friend as soon as the rent comes up. But it forces players to give up labs occationally on a regualar period.
4) Limit the number of lab slots a corp can rent to 10% the number of corp members, so a 50 member corp is maxed at 5 lab slot rentals at one time.
Simple. Slows production. Makes labs open. Makes Being a Researcher something.
IMHO the players who were here first are the only winners as the lab slot availibility issue really hurts new players to this game, with no end in sight.
TotensBurntCorpse
Likes
EVE, Starfleet Command Series, Earth & Beyond, Anything Battlefield, MOHAA, Call of Duty.
Dislikes
Not much. |
TotensBurntCorpse
|
Posted - 2004.11.04 18:16:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Kalbak
So I just got hit with unrent lab slot bug too and I'm not happy. ....so specialists would have a better chance to actually be RESEARCHERS.
I am a relative new player. But I had the fortunate luck to find an unrented lab slot while doing a low level courier agent mission. So I rented the sucker and opened a corp office there to manage it. But so summarize MY frustrations...
- cannot find a lab for rent (but i lucked out)
- buying a lab is expensive (auctions go in the 7-15 million range)
- there is no mechanism to protect you during a lab purchase from being ripped off (one of my buddies in another corp was ripped off 8 million this way, as either the seller gets ripped or the buyer get ripped)
- rented labs by longer playing time persons effectively shuts out new players (which i hope is NOT CPPs goal)
- having an empty lab then paying rent makes you lose the lab slot
- a general lack of good instructions or hand book by CPP on how to play this game without trolling these boards for the excellent information put forward by other players
I would propose this to deal with the lab slot availability (or lack thereof!)....
1) One Character can control = ONE LAB = ONE FACTORY at any one time, thats it no more, no multiple labs or facts. This is slanted towards freeing up and turning over labs and factories more often. AND making players really pay attention to what they want to research.
2) Make rentals of labs and factories more expensive to operate (ie hog). First 5 days rental is regular rate. Second five days is double the first fives rental rate. Third five days rental is double the seconds etc.
So a 10K lab rental for 5 periods of total 50K, can balloon to 10+20+40+80+160 = 310K Using this progression quite soon ANYONE would not be able to afford to rent a lab continuously. Rerenting a lab would reset the rental rates.
3) Limit the duration a character can rent a lab without a "vacation". UNRENTING for a proscribed period of time, say one rental period in four. This really hits the guys doing the ME 1000 BPO's to lock up a lab. The lab could be rerented quickly by a friend as soon as the rent comes up. But it forces players to give up labs occationally on a regualar period.
4) Limit the number of lab slots a corp can rent to 10% the number of corp members, so a 50 member corp is maxed at 5 lab slot rentals at one time.
Simple. Slows production. Makes labs open. Makes Being a Researcher something.
IMHO the players who were here first are the only winners as the lab slot availibility issue really hurts new players to this game, with no end in sight.
TotensBurntCorpse
Likes
EVE, Starfleet Command Series, Earth & Beyond, Anything Battlefield, MOHAA, Call of Duty.
Dislikes
Not much. |
Braincandy
|
Posted - 2004.11.06 10:27:00 -
[29]
some good ideas there d,hofrem
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Braincandy
|
Posted - 2004.11.06 10:27:00 -
[30]
some good ideas there d,hofrem
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