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Jojo Jackson
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Posted - 2009.11.01 21:00:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Jojo Jackson on 01/11/2009 21:01:06
 Quote:
Kobrakilla describes "stunned silence" as the only response of their victims to these attacks, followed by other potential targets "docking up en masse." He estimates the combined ship loss for Hulkageddon participants to be approximately "300 disposable ships, paid for by insurance and loot", adding that so many Catalysts were lost to CONCORD that at one point "we bought Jita out of Catalysts."
It's just so dam wrong, that a criminal Pirat get his insurence after beeing killed by CONCORD.
Nowhere in the world any insurance company would pay a criminal his destroyed car after he used it for a bank robbery.
It needs to fixed.
PS: and where is your highly wanted "risk v reward" if you have NO RISK?
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Varilinda
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Posted - 2009.11.01 21:01:00 -
[2]
This topic is both new and exciting.
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Cadde
Gallente
221st Century Warfare
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Posted - 2009.11.01 21:04:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Varilinda
This topic is both new and exciting.
Agreed, lets discuss this in as much detail as we possibly can. Heck, i can start it off with...
"No police force in real life will ever be on scene within 30 - 40 seconds and have the ability to instagib robbers."
My opinions belong to me, you can't have them!
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Khemul Zula
Amarr
Keisen Trade League
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Posted - 2009.11.01 21:04:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Varilinda
This topic is both new and exciting.
I was wondering why he was beating a pile of dust.
Poor poor skeletal horse.
Veal, murder. Baby Carrots, healthy snack. Food hypocrisy at work. |
loony zoon
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Posted - 2009.11.01 21:07:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Khemul Zula
Originally by: Varilinda
This topic is both new and exciting.
I was wondering why he was beating a pile of dust.
Poor poor skeletal horse.
equinecroflagellation?
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Jojo Jackson
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Posted - 2009.11.01 21:09:00 -
[6]
Ah sorry but I don't hang around every day to read the ingame news.
Quote:
News Pirate Corporations Band Together for 'Hulkageddon' reported by: ISD Deacon York | 2009.10.29 19:43:27
And you must be a real hero to attack and destroy helpless miner/hauler, destroying there day and several hundret millions ISK ..
as the victim just get a marginal small part paid by insurence for his T2 ship which he can not defend effective except not to undock.
And then this idiots smaktalk stuff like "with no losses incurred by return fire from their victims." and "Kobrakilla describes "stunned silence" as the only response of their victims to these attacks, followed by other potential targets "docking up en masse.""
WTF DO YOU EXPECT?
Do you want them to convert in assheads like you are?
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.11.01 21:15:00 -
[7]
It's high security space, if anything the rewards of suicide ganking should be boosted and the risks lessened to keep it on par with other high security activities.
Suicide gankers die 100% of the time and do not kill their victims 100% of the time. Do miners die 100% of the time while mining and sometimes they blow up and don't mine anything at all?
I think you don't know what "risk" means.
Originally by: CCP Whisper
So you're going to have to do some actual thinking with regards to hull components and their capabilities instead of copying some cookie-cutter setup. Cry some more.
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Jojo Jackson
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Posted - 2009.11.01 21:24:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Jojo Jackson on 01/11/2009 21:24:48
Originally by: Vaal Erit
It's high security space, if anything the rewards of suicide ganking should be boosted and the risks lessened to keep it on par with other high security activities.
Suicide gankers die 100% of the time and do not kill their victims 100% of the time. Do miners die 100% of the time while mining and sometimes they blow up and don't mine anything at all?
I think you don't know what "risk" means.
If the ganger know what he does he never fail to kill his victim.
Even if his victim has no cargo, he get 95% of his investment back (sometimes MUCH more just from insurence).
If the victim had cargo the gangers profit can be from OK to imense.
So if the ganger is no 5 day noob ... where was the risk you mentioned?
Ah sorry, there is NO RISK!
Pirat X : "the must be risk v reward"
=> CCP, bring this risk and remove insurence as soon as CONCORD is involved !!
Just then ganging with T1 ships would have some risk!
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Oriens Pars
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Posted - 2009.11.01 21:33:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Vaal Erit
Suicide gankers die 100% of the time and do not kill their victims 100% of the time.
uh........good
For the record, I could give 2 ***** whether people suicide gank or not. They want to lose their ships, so be it. Just quit braggin like your some friggin wanna be street thug "protecting the game."
psh
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Vespoi Filar
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Posted - 2009.11.01 21:41:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Jojo Jackson
Edited by: Jojo Jackson on 01/11/2009 21:01:06
Quote:
Kobrakilla describes "stunned silence" as the only response of their victims to these attacks, followed by other potential targets "docking up en masse." He estimates the combined ship loss for Hulkageddon participants to be approximately "300 disposable ships, paid for by insurance and loot", adding that so many Catalysts were lost to CONCORD that at one point "we bought Jita out of Catalysts."
It's just so dam wrong, that a criminal Pirat get his insurence after beeing killed by CONCORD.
Nowhere in the world any insurance company would pay a criminal his destroyed car after he used it for a bank robbery.
It needs to fixed.
PS: and where is your highly wanted "risk v reward" if you have NO RISK?
You missed the most important part... AND LOOT!
So many of these hulks had dedspace shield boosters on that finding just a few of these makes the task profitable!
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Jojo Jackson
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Posted - 2009.11.01 21:50:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Jojo Jackson on 01/11/2009 21:54:30
Originally by: Vespoi Filar
You missed the most important part... AND LOOT!
So many of these hulks had dedspace shield boosters on that finding just a few of these makes the task profitable!
Nop, you missed the point.
no loot == break even, no reward but no lose too
loot == reward
risk? where?
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Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.11.01 22:01:00 -
[12]
Wow, this topic is so old someone is using several alts to argue back and forth with as noone else can be arsed. Boring news day eh?
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Avon
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.01 22:04:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Jojo Jackson
Edited by: Jojo Jackson on 01/11/2009 21:01:06
Quote:
Kobrakilla describes "stunned silence" as the only response of their victims to these attacks, followed by other potential targets "docking up en masse." He estimates the combined ship loss for Hulkageddon participants to be approximately "300 disposable ships, paid for by insurance and loot", adding that so many Catalysts were lost to CONCORD that at one point "we bought Jita out of Catalysts."
It's just so dam wrong, that a criminal Pirat get his insurence after beeing killed by CONCORD.
Nowhere in the world any insurance company would pay a criminal his destroyed car after he used it for a bank robbery.
It needs to fixed.
PS: and where is your highly wanted "risk v reward" if you have NO RISK?
Did you intentionally spell "damn" as "dam" in order to hold back your tears?
アニメ漫画です
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Jojo Jackson
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Posted - 2009.11.01 22:16:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Avon
Did you intentionally spell "damn" as "dam" in order to hold back your tears?
as I don't care about spelling ... write it as you like to.
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Arte
The Darkness Within
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Posted - 2009.11.01 22:23:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Jojo Jackson
Nowhere in the world any insurance company would pay a criminal his destroyed car after he used it for a bank robbery.
It needs to fixed.
I too noticed how this aspect of the game made it less and less life like.
I only play nowadays to remind me how my taranis interceptor looks from a third person perspective, I don't get a very good view from inside my pod, the roving camera broke 4 months ago and the engineer hasn't been round to fix it despite many promises.
Can we also have insurance companies that refuse to pay out on an obviously valid claim, till they are harangued by Watchdog and exposed for the sham companies they are? 
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Originally by: CCP Whisper
"So you're going to have to do some actual thinking..."
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Khemul Zula
Amarr
Keisen Trade League
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Posted - 2009.11.01 22:23:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Jojo Jackson
Originally by: Avon
Did you intentionally spell "damn" as "dam" in order to hold back your tears?
as I don't care about spelling ... write it as you like to.
Always is a good attitude.
Isn't like people use it to judge whether a person should be labeled as A.) Idiot, B.) Raving Lunatic, or C.) Has A Valid Point And Should Be Listened Too*.
*Generally considered to be a mythical creature that never existed to begin with. Much like the Platypus.
Veal, murder. Baby Carrots, healthy snack. Food hypocrisy at work. |
Danks
Caldari
Fat Angry Toe Tappin Inbreds
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Posted - 2009.11.01 22:40:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Jojo Jackson
Originally by: Avon
Did you intentionally spell "damn" as "dam" in order to hold back your tears?
as I don't care about spelling ... write it as you like to.
Yes because intelligent, coherent discourse is overrated.
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Jojo Jackson
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Posted - 2009.11.01 22:54:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Danks
Originally by: Jojo Jackson
Originally by: Avon
Did you intentionally spell "damn" as "dam" in order to hold back your tears?
as I don't care about spelling ... write it as you like to.
Yes because intelligent, coherent discourse is overrated.
Well, if you like to write in any language which isn't your first one (if I check this forum, it can even be your first one) ... feel free to edit as long as it isn't 100% correct. Just for notice, right spelling != high intelligens as you can write where dump stuff with very correct spelling/grammer ;).
But I love it, when people switch to spelling-teachers if they are out of arguments about the topic. Just makes clear, that they have no arguments anymore.
Still, I asked where the risk is when suizid-ganging with T1 ships and absolut noone could show it to me.
With the typical phrase of random Pirat: "risk v reward" this risk part is missing and we need a fix.
Fastest fix is: no insurence payout as soon as CONCORD is involved. This would intruduce the "risk" into this "risk v reward" calculation.
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Arte
The Darkness Within
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Posted - 2009.11.01 23:02:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Jojo Jackson
Fastest fix is: no insurence payout as soon as CONCORD is involved. This would intruduce the "risk" into this "risk v reward" calculation.
And then some noob punter gets his mission ship blown out from under him because of a mis-targetting mistake during a mission and doesn't even get the insurance back from that... fair punishment for being daft No?
Well how about fair punishment for being daft when you dont warp out when -10 sec status pilots warp into the field you're in
That's the penalty these players face, they lose sec status and therefore freedom of movement. They then have to organise alts to transport their ships while they float to them in pods, during which time they can be blown up. There's the risk. That it is easy enough to do is by the by, the risk is there.
Seriously dude, stop complaining. I've been ganked, as have many and just smiled at the thought of it. If you want to seek vengance, you should claim the kill rights you have and use a location agent to track the pilot down and gank him back....
Mining in high sec is risk free until they insert suicide gankers... now you just have to pay a bit more attention.
Is that arguement enough for you?
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Originally by: CCP Whisper
"So you're going to have to do some actual thinking..."
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1600 RT
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Posted - 2009.11.01 23:04:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Jojo Jackson
Edited by: Jojo Jackson on 01/11/2009 21:01:06
Quote:
Kobrakilla describes "stunned silence" as the only response of their victims to these attacks, followed by other potential targets "docking up en masse." He estimates the combined ship loss for Hulkageddon participants to be approximately "300 disposable ships, paid for by insurance and loot", adding that so many Catalysts were lost to CONCORD that at one point "we bought Jita out of Catalysts."
It's just so dam wrong, that a criminal Pirat get his insurence after beeing killed by CONCORD.
Nowhere in the world any insurance company would pay a criminal his destroyed car after he used it for a bank robbery.
It needs to fixed.
PS: and where is your highly wanted "risk v reward" if you have NO RISK?
probably in space it works in another way
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Khemul Zula
Amarr
Keisen Trade League
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Posted - 2009.11.01 23:07:00 -
[21]
You are looking at it backwards.
As far as 'Risk vs. Reward' is concerned suicide ganking isn't a risk for the ganker, it's a risk for the gankee (if that isn't a word I'm claiming credit for its creation). It's a reward for the ganker.
Perfectly balanced, as you can see.
Veal, murder. Baby Carrots, healthy snack. Food hypocrisy at work. |
Ryhss
Caldari
Sarum A Fortiori
Sanctimony of Bellum
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Posted - 2009.11.01 23:19:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Cadde
Edited by: Cadde on 01/11/2009 21:06:30
Originally by: Varilinda
This topic is both new and exciting.
Agreed, lets discuss this in as much detail as we possibly can. Heck, i can start it off with...
"No police force in real life will ever be on scene within 30 - 40 seconds and have the ability to instagib robbers."
EDIT:
Because surely this hasn't been brought up before, this must be the first time this ever have been a "problem".
This isn't real life...........
This 5 minutes between posts crap needs to stop, NOW.
I think not, therefore I am not. |
Jojo Jackson
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Posted - 2009.11.01 23:43:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Arte
Originally by: Jojo Jackson
Fastest fix is: no insurence payout as soon as CONCORD is involved. This would intruduce the "risk" into this "risk v reward" calculation.
And then some noob punter gets his mission ship blown out from under him because of a mis-targetting mistake during a mission and doesn't even get the insurance back from that... fair punishment for being daft No?
Well how about fair punishment for being daft when you dont warp out when -10 sec status pilots warp into the field you're in
That's the penalty these players face, they lose sec status and therefore freedom of movement. They then have to organise alts to transport their ships while they float to them in pods, during which time they can be blown up. There's the risk. That it is easy enough to do is by the by, the risk is there.
Seriously dude, stop complaining. I've been ganked, as have many and just smiled at the thought of it. If you want to seek vengance, you should claim the kill rights you have and use a location agent to track the pilot down and gank him back....
Mining in high sec is risk free until they insert suicide gankers... now you just have to pay a bit more attention.
Is that arguement enough for you?
You throw the stick towards the miners again and tell em same think so often mentioned "we learn you to be more carefull". But it isn't the miner we talk about as he took the risk of using a helpless ship he can't realy insure to do some productiv.
It's like telling the victim of a killer "your own fault, why do you sleep in your bed without attention". Not the dead one is the bad guy, the killer is!
And atm the risk for the killer in EvE is ... nothink. Sec status can far to easy be grinded back up even if you don't fly any ship (use alt, join fleet, follow mission flying alt as NPC don't attack eggs). So no, sec status is absolut no risk.
Headhunter? rofl, as soon as you but a bounty on his head, he uses his alt to selfedestruct collecting this bounty too. No risk again. Just stupid to even think about puting a bounty on his head!
Killrights? Yea, becouse this mining/industrial toon he just ganged will for sure have close to equal combat skills as this ganger. No risk again. The pirate might just lough as he got another free kill. And even more with his remote-rep-NPC-corp alts as backup. <- WTF is this allowed at all?!? Again just stupid to think about this again!
I got told from some Pirates, that it is imposible to catch a non-afk hauler in highsec (which is absolut wrong, I know) ... how the hell should you catch a non-afk egg? Ilogical advice. (Same as you (Pirate) tell other this "risk v reward" crap about highsec missioning but refuse to have a real risk for highsec piracy).
For the Rookie ... there are popup windows with warnings where you have to click "yes I realy want to" whenever you try to attack somethink that shouldn't be shot. When he click "yes" ... well, then it realy is his own fault. If there is somethink, where no massage apperas feel free to petition it :).
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Azirapheal
Amarr
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2009.11.01 23:49:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Jojo Jackson
Sec status can far to easy be grinded back up even if you don't fly any ship (use alt, join fleet, follow mission flying alt as NPC don't attack eggs). So no, sec status is absolut no risk.
fk off. ive been trying for three years now :(
Originally by: Azirapheal
i never ever thought id live to see the day.... that titans were nerfed for being FOTM HAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist
SoonÖ
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Jenni Falorgen
Malevolent Intentions
Dark Solar Empire
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Posted - 2009.11.01 23:55:00 -
[25]
Some time ago when i used to run mining ops from my Orca; i had one rule for my miners: Fit a tank.
Yes, it IS as simple as that.
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J'Mkarr Soban
Amarr
Proxenetae Invicti
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Posted - 2009.11.02 00:20:00 -
[26]
Edited by: J''Mkarr Soban on 02/11/2009 00:22:22
Originally by: Jojo Jackson
Originally by: Danks
Originally by: Jojo Jackson
Originally by: Avon
Did you intentionally spell "damn" as "dam" in order to hold back your tears?
as I don't care about spelling ... write it as you like to.
Yes because intelligent, coherent discourse is overrated.
Well, if you like to write in any language which isn't your first...
I didn't think any language had internal inconsistencies with spelling...
And the reason everyone is talking about spelling instead of the issue is, quite frankly, because your spelling (or lack thereof) is vastly more interesting than the insurance issue. Have a search for topics already existing on this and you'll see why.
--
These are my personal views and in no way represent the views of Proxenetae Invicti, which maintains a neutral stance stemming from the strong ethics demanded of its work. |
Turiel Demon
Minmatar
Blue Republic
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Posted - 2009.11.02 00:23:00 -
[27]
Originally by: loony zoon
Originally by: Khemul Zula
Originally by: Varilinda
This topic is both new and exciting.
I was wondering why he was beating a pile of dust.
Poor poor skeletal horse.
equinecroflagellation?
That's a good neologism
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Syberbolt8
Gallente
Knights of Kador
Freedom of Elbas
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Posted - 2009.11.02 00:23:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Jenni Falorgen
Some time ago when i used to run mining ops from my Orca; i had one rule for my miners: Fit a tank.
Yes, it IS as simple as that.
[Hulk, New Setup 1]
Photonic CPU Enhancer I
Damage Control II
Invulnerability Field II
Photon Scattering Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
27k EHP.
Nothing is going to one shot this, short of a BC or BS gank, and it wont pay for itself.
If your worried about your t1 mining barge or indy ship, then you can insure those :)
Support the DEAD HORSE POS's |
Cadde
Gallente
221st Century Warfare
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Posted - 2009.11.02 00:24:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Ryhss
This isn't real life...........
No sh*t?
Re-read the OP and tell him it isn't real life either since he is clearly comparing insurance companies in reality to insurance in game.
--------------------------------------------------------
Also, as has been stated a gazillion times before. Miners face three risks:
NPC rats
It's laughable in high sec, those NPC rats are useless at killing any miner larger than a destroyer.
Getting can flipped
Easily avoided with an ORCA or a hauler or taking it back to station immediately.
Being suicide ganked
Quite possible, can be avoided by keeping an eye on local and using the directional scanner.
Also, staying aligned to a station is a good way of staying alive if ganks are expected.
Conclusion
Miners have extremely small risks involved when mining in high sec compared to low sec (lol) and 0.0 mining.
NPC's in highsec are utter crap.
No need to mine into jet cans anymore using an alt with a ORCA or hauler or ganging up with someone.
Suicide ganks can be avoided.
Mining, even if it's a sub-par profession can net you a steady 10 - 15 million ISK/Hour with a hulk and an ORCA with the only risk of failure being that of a pure suicide gank.
In short, there is no risk in mining without suicide gankers.
Thus, RISK vs REWARD works as intended.
Note that the ganker faces these risks:
Failing the gank
They didn't bring enough damage to down the target before concord instapops all of them.
Or they failed to put said damage on the target at the same time allowing the target to tank it.
The target warps off in time
They miss their opportunity to gank the target because the target was aligned and thus warps off before they even have a chance to lock him.
Now said target warns local and the word spreads through the constellation and region that they are on the hunt for a gank. Thus they have wasted their time which leads to less isk/hour ratio for them.
Retaliation
They are committing a crime, the target gets kill rights on them. Next time they fly anything worth taking down the victim of the gank is allowed to engage them free of any kill rights and concord intervention. Thus they run the risk (and inconvenience of being a valid target) of actually losing more ISK than they made on said gank.
The valuable modules are destroyed in the explosion
The gankers are ganking the hulk because they want that very expensive module fitted to it. There is a high risk that the module in question is destroyed.
Now, one could say that isn't going to be an issue because of the insurance payout... BUT!
The gankers lose security status and still get punished with the kill rights on them.
They also lose their opportunity to gank another target in the same system and possibly the entire region as the word spreads.
They also lose out on their time spent preparing for the gank and executing it, time is ISK...
In conclusion
If the gankers are after ISK, they would be far better off doing something else with their time.
If they are after griefing a target for the sake of having fun, they are in fact breaking a game rule and can be warned and even banned for it.
If they are ganking someone they don't like, they are playing the game as intended and for that mechanic to work they have to be able to afford it.
War deccing a corporation costs 2 million ISK a week if no other wars are active. It's a small price to pay for being allowed to legally kill miners but corporations at war RARELY mine AFK. Only way to actually punish someone you don't like is to gank them when they are out in their high value ships.
Thus, once again the mechanic works as intended.
The ganked is the one at an advantage here because he gets a FREE wardec on the target for 30 days while the ganker himself can do jack about it.
My opinions belong to me, you can't have them!
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nafiy gnaw
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Posted - 2009.11.02 00:25:00 -
[30]
Suicide ganking has already been much, much more difficult than it used to be, from no KONKORD to 30-second KONKORD to 13 second KONKORD.
Want to remove insurance? Fine. Remove insurance alltogether so it hits gankers, pirates and carebears equally hard.
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