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Eve's Money Supply under Dominion

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Ex Mudder Gallente Oberon Incorporated	Posted - 2009.11.02 05:47:00 - [1] If claiming a system costs 280 Million ISK a month, and there are perhaps 1000 systems to claim, will the ensuing drain of 3 trillion or so ISK per year have a significant impact on Eve's money supply?
Lance Fighter Amarr	Posted - 2009.11.02 05:51:00 - [2] Where did you get that number? Also, upgrading systems = more people can make money off the same system = more money. Basically, if a system cant support its own weight, alliances arent going to claim it. OHGODS BELOW THIS LINE IS MY SIG !!!! SRSLY! Blane Xero > Lance is at -0.9 sec status with a 1 million bounty. Lance is also amarrian. Thats 3 evil points
ThaDollaGenerale The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.11.02 07:07:00 - [3] Originally by: Ex Mudder If claiming a system costs 280 Million ISK a month, and there are perhaps 1000 systems to claim, will the ensuing drain of 3 trillion or so ISK per year have a significant impact on Eve's money supply? Obviously you've never seen an alliance's wallet fat with moon goo money.
Tippia Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2009.11.02 07:08:00 - [4] 1. Where did you get that number, and for how large a dominion is that? 2. No. Consider how much it currently costs to keep all those sov-claiming POSes running… ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Desiree Laument	Posted - 2009.11.02 07:40:00 - [5] Originally by: Tippia 1. Where did you get that number, and for how large a dominion is that? 2. No. Consider how much it currently costs to keep all those sov-claiming POSes runningà Dominion is the upcoming expansion.
Lance Fighter Amarr	Posted - 2009.11.02 08:05:00 - [6] Originally by: Desiree Laument Originally by: Tippia 1. Where did you get that number, and for how large a dominion is that? 2. No. Consider how much it currently costs to keep all those sov-claiming POSes runningà Dominion is the upcoming expansion. Definitions of dominion on the Web: * dominance or power through legal authority; "France held undisputed dominion over vast areas of Africa"; "the rule of Caesar" * district: a region marked off for administrative or other purposes Linkage OHGODS BELOW THIS LINE IS MY SIG !!!! SRSLY! Blane Xero > Lance is at -0.9 sec status with a 1 million bounty. Lance is also amarrian. Thats 3 evil points
Dregek Pilots Of Honour Aeternus.	Posted - 2009.11.02 08:28:00 - [7] Edited by: Dregek on 02/11/2009 08:30:11 Edited by: Dregek on 02/11/2009 08:29:43 Originally by: ThaDollaGenerale Obviously you've never seen an alliance's wallet fat with moon goo money. except moon goo is gonna change so while the alliances that have sat on them for a while now will have a decent cash amount that is not gonna stay that way if they hope to base their income on moon goo as for the op 3 trillion is a lot but jst as much if not more is spent on running sov towers
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.11.02 08:46:00 - [8] Originally by: Dregek except moon goo is gonna change Actually, I've just finished running the numbers and the changes, while significant, are not THAT drastic. Linkage to analysis thread. Long story short, instead of having just 2 money-maker moon types, you will now have 5 to 7 money-maker moon types, each of them earning less than before, but not quite that much less. It's an improvement, but I wouldn't call it a total situation reversal. _ We are recruiting \| Beginer's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2009.11.02 09:04:00 - [9] Moon minerals doesnt change the money in Eve. The only thing high-end moons change is the ownership of the isk. But moon minerals dont create nor destroy isk. However, the system upkeep actually DOES change the amount of isk in Eve. The upkeep sucks away isk, it will become a major isk-sink. Isk sinks are good, currently we have only very few isk-sinks in Eve, so adding some more sinks is good for Eve economy.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2009.11.02 09:13:00 - [10] Originally by: Gnulpie Moon minerals doesnt change the money in Eve. The only thing high-end moons change is the ownership of the isk. But moon minerals dont create nor destroy isk. Just like missions are ISK faucets due to the rats and rewards, moon minerals is an ISK sink because of the POS system and fuel. Quote: Isk sinks are good, currently we have only very few isk-sinks in Eve, so adding some more sinks is good for Eve economy. How do you determine that it's good for the economy? Because I don't that you have any basis for saying so.
Tippia Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2009.11.02 09:32:00 - [11] Edited by: Tippia on 02/11/2009 09:34:29 Originally by: Desiree Laument Originally by: Tippia 1. Where did you get that number, and for how large a dominion is that? 2. No. Consider how much it currently costs to keep all those sov-claiming POSes running… Dominion is the upcoming expansion. Yes, that's why it's the right word to use — where do you think they got the name from? The question I'm asking is what size dominion that upkeep cost relates to, since upkeep is supposed to change with the amount of space you hold. Originally by: Gnulpie However, the system upkeep actually DOES change the amount of isk in Eve. The upkeep sucks away isk, it will become a major isk-sink. And again: it replaces the current upkeep system where you pay consumable costs for all those sov-claiming POSes — it simply replaces one ISK sink with another. So whether it will actually change the amount of ISK is still an open question. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Dapto Minmatar Dissolution Of Eternity MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2009.11.02 11:41:00 - [12] I do hope the 0.0 dwellers realise Dominion will reset 0.0 upon its release. This means every system will initially be the same no more ru64 moons until youve upgraded the system. HaHa thats gotta hurt Dapto
Tippia Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2009.11.02 11:53:00 - [13] Originally by: Dapto I do hope the 0.0 dwellers realise Dominion will reset 0.0 upon its release. You have a source for this, I presume? ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Washell Olivaw	Posted - 2009.11.02 12:03:00 - [14] Originally by: Ex Mudder If claiming a system costs 280 Million ISK a month, and there are perhaps 1000 systems to claim, will the ensuing drain of 3 trillion or so ISK per year have a significant impact on Eve's money supply? There currently are a lot of POS towers that are only there to claim sov. They don't exactly run on fairy dust and angel dreams. Depending on the system, dominion's fee may actually be lower than the current costs. So there won't be an additional 3 trillion a year drain. More like current drain is 2 trillion in POS fuel vs 3 trillion in future claim fees. Second, infrastructure upgrades are supposed to increase the profitability of a system, potentially via improving rat bounties, which are a source of ISK. Even if it does turn out to significantly impact EVE's money supply, they're likely to spot and correct it before most of us even notice it. They're not paying the economist team to twiddle thumbs. Originally by: Signature Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2009.11.02 12:19:00 - [15] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Gnulpie However, the system upkeep actually DOES change the amount of isk in Eve. The upkeep sucks away isk, it will become a major isk-sink. And again: it replaces the current upkeep system where you pay consumable costs for all those sov-claiming POSes — it simply replaces one ISK sink with another. So whether it will actually change the amount of ISK is still an open question. In a normal system without any fuel saving bonus you have to pay around 180 mil for the fuel for a large pos. 180 mil, split into 155 mil for ice products and 25 mil for npc goods. Only the 25 mil for npc goods like robotics, enriched uranium etc. change the overall amount of isk in Eve, the 155 mil for ice products won't change the total amount of isk because the isk will change only ownership between players and still stay inside Eve. If the claiming costs in Dominion are indeed 280 mil, then this equals around 11 large pos. Most systems have much fewer pos and so the dominion upkeep system will be a larger isk sink than the current system - if the amount of claimed systems stay the same. A larger isk sink is good, why? Because the isk faucets are already very large and ccp introduced another faucet with the sleeper tags in wormholes. More sinks are necessary. Otherwise the inflation will go up and up. And why is that bad? Because it heavily favours the old players and makes it very difficult for new players. Having a system which dampens the inflation is therefore good.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.11.02 12:26:00 - [16] Originally by: Ex Mudder If claiming a system costs 280 Million ISK a month, and there are perhaps 1000 systems to claim, will the ensuing drain of 3 trillion or so ISK per year have a significant impact on Eve's money supply? That might be as much as the ISK generated by a single day's mission running and ratting. But I doubt it.
W3370Pi4 Caldari	Posted - 2009.11.02 12:54:00 - [17] Originally by: Dapto I do hope the 0.0 dwellers realise Dominion will reset 0.0 upon its release. This means every system will initially be the same no more ru64 moons until youve upgraded the system. HaHa thats gotta hurt Wrong there will be a short amount of time to upgrade all the systems then if it's not done it will reset _______ Join The"Legit Trading" channel
Daedalus II	Posted - 2009.11.02 13:36:00 - [18] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Gnulpie Moon minerals doesnt change the money in Eve. The only thing high-end moons change is the ownership of the isk. But moon minerals dont create nor destroy isk. Just like missions are ISK faucets due to the rats and rewards, moon minerals is an ISK sink because of the POS system and fuel. While that is mostly true it's not entirely true. Most of the POS fuel isn't an isk sink. The only fuel type that is an isk sink is the kind of fuels you have to buy from npcs, that cannot be produced by players. Robotics and such. This is a relatively small part of the fuel value needed for a running POS, most of it is ice and that is not an isk sink. I think CCP stated somewhere that the new system upkeep should be approximately what it costs for a normal alliance to keep their POSes running today (if they were to buy all fuels and not mine anything themselves). This means that the new upkeep isk sink will be way larger than the old fuel isk sink as ice fuels aren't an isk sink. This in turn means that more pure isk is disappearing from the game, which should lead to a higher value of the isk against other items. Mission runners get richer as their isk faucets get more valuable. It will cost less isks to buy items as each isk is valued higher. I don't think there will be any change to the other professions that just shuffle isk and items around. For inventors and producers the factory isk sinks will be more costly as each isk is worth more, but the slots still require as many isks.
Ex Mudder Gallente Oberon Incorporated	Posted - 2009.11.02 14:52:00 - [19] Originally by: ThaDollaGenerale Originally by: Ex Mudder If claiming a system costs 280 Million ISK a month, and there are perhaps 1000 systems to claim, will the ensuing drain of 3 trillion or so ISK per year have a significant impact on Eve's money supply? Obviously you've never seen an alliance's wallet fat with moon goo money. Alliances don't have wallets. And I have no idea how many systems there are to claim, 1000 was an estimate to one signifigant digit. But the 280 million is the price on SiSi now, taken from the wallet of the corp that claims Sov. Actual price will be higher, if you upgrade the system, and does not take into account startup costs for those upgrades, which are currently 100 isk, like everything else on the test server.
SmackaDoom Caldari Rapscallions Important Internet Spaceship League	Posted - 2009.11.02 16:19:00 - [20] I just cant wait to try to kill all the freighters that are gonna be going into low/null sec since the upgrade platform is 750k m3 and can only be moved in a freighter
Rordan D'Kherr Amarr	Posted - 2009.11.02 16:23:00 - [21] Posting in a fortune teller thread.
Akkarin Pagan Minmatar Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2009.11.02 16:45:00 - [22] Originally by: SmackaDoom I just cant wait to try to kill all the freighters that are gonna be going into low/null sec since the upgrade platform is 750k m3 and can only be moved in a freighter Can you say jump freighter? Akkarin I don't mean to sound bitter and twisted, but I am, so that's how it comes out. <3 - Immy
Pyus Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.11.02 16:55:00 - [23] Originally by: Akkarin Pagan Originally by: SmackaDoom I just cant wait to try to kill all the freighters that are gonna be going into low/null sec since the upgrade platform is 750k m3 and can only be moved in a freighter Can you say jump freighter? Akkarin WTB: jump freighter with 750km3 cargo space
Miyamoto Uroki Caldari Black Thorne Corporation	Posted - 2009.11.02 16:59:00 - [24] Originally by: Akkarin Pagan Originally by: SmackaDoom I just cant wait to try to kill all the freighters that are gonna be going into low/null sec since the upgrade platform is 750k m3 and can only be moved in a freighter Can you say jump freighter? Akkarin better check the stats before making clever statements ^^ jumpfreighters cannot hold that much. they are a fair bit smaller in cargo size than the regular freighters.
Glassback Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2009.11.02 17:26:00 - [25] Originally by: Dapto I do hope the 0.0 dwellers realise Dominion will reset 0.0 upon its release. This means every system will initially be the same no more ru64 moons until youve upgraded the system. HaHa thats gotta hurt Nope. The moons that produce ru64's will still be there, they are changing the T2 production to make the goo worth less. The systems true sec status still remains so if your system has Ark now it still will have ark (or not).
Katy Karkinoff Minmatar Psycho Chicks	Posted - 2009.11.02 17:50:00 - [26] Originally by: Glassback Originally by: Dapto I do hope the 0.0 dwellers realise Dominion will reset 0.0 upon its release. This means every system will initially be the same no more ru64 moons until youve upgraded the system. HaHa thats gotta hurt Nope. The moons that produce ru64's will still be there, they are changing the T2 production to make the goo worth less. The systems true sec status still remains so if your system has Ark now it still will have ark (or not). Actually they kinda said true sec is gone, belts (quantity and quality) are the types of things that are there to be upgraded.
Ryhss Caldari Sarum A Fortiori Sanctimony of Bellum	Posted - 2009.11.02 18:18:00 - [27] Edited by: Ryhss on 02/11/2009 18:21:53 You all do realize this is a game, the devs can add or subtract ISK from there game with some code right? Originally by: Glassback Originally by: Dapto I do hope the 0.0 dwellers realise Dominion will reset 0.0 upon its release. This means every system will initially be the same no more ru64 moons until youve upgraded the system. HaHa thats gotta hurt Nope. The moons that produce ru64's will still be there, they are changing the T2 production to make the goo worth less. The systems true sec status still remains so if your system has Ark now it still will have ark (or not). Worth less or worthless? This 5 minutes between posts crap needs to stop, NOW. I think not, therefore I am not.
Domoso	Posted - 2009.11.03 03:30:00 - [28] Lets see, less money in a system means money is more valuable, means goods get cheaper. This is bad how?
Khemul Zula Amarr Keisen Trade League	Posted - 2009.11.03 04:25:00 - [29] Edited by: Khemul Zula on 03/11/2009 04:25:14 I doubt 3 trillion over the course of a year is even a dent in the money supply. Sounds high on a small scale view but taking the entire EVE universe over the course of a year into account it shrinks pretty quickly. Then take into account that the money entering the market can be increased at the same time. And the fact that we don't really have accurate enough numbers on how much of an impact either claiming or upgrading could have on the money supply. Not really enough information to say. Veal, murder. Baby Carrots, healthy snack. Food hypocrisy at work.
Taedrin Gallente Tactical Command Sector	Posted - 2009.11.03 04:31:00 - [30] Originally by: Domoso Lets see, less money in a system means money is more valuable, means goods get cheaper. This is bad how? Level 4 mission bounties will become better sources of income compared to other professions such as mining. This will make high sec even more profitable compared to low sec/0.0. ---------- There is always a choice. The choice might not be easy, nor simple, nor the options be what you desire - but, nevertheless, the choice is there to be made.

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