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Foraven
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.05 23:57:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Ralnik
Personally, I think Dessies are a bit overpowered. They can very easily dispatch up to 3 to 4 frigs before the frigs can kill the Dessie. That is unless the guy in the Dessie it a complete tard.
If I'm in a frig, I'll attack a cruiser before I'd even think about touching a destroyer unless the pilot is a total noob.
Much the same if I'm in a Cruiser, I'd attack a BS before I'd even think of a attacking a BC.
Fly a catalyst, then tell me it's overpowered. Can't put any good guns on them and they don't get damage bonuses. The only dessie i consider good is the thrasher, more fitting capability, it's fast, and projectiles don't drain your capacitor.
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Havohej
Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.11.06 00:24:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Miss Xoco
I think destroyers are still very powerful frig killers. Its a very cheap ship and its able to be a serious threat even to T2 AF ships. I know it because my Wolf almost got eaten by a destroyer.
That wasn't because destroyers are so good.
Du'uma Fiisi is Recruiting |
Don Pellegrino
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Posted - 2009.11.06 01:08:00 -
[33]
The thrasher is perfect, all the other ones are CLEARLY broken and not worth flying in pvp (I don't really consider suicide ganking to be pvp...).
Make them on par with the Thrasher, but still all different. Same for Interdictors (Eris vs Sabre, anyone? lol).
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eFart
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.11.06 02:02:00 -
[34]
dude destoyers
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Smabs
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Posted - 2009.11.06 10:10:00 -
[35]
Destroyers are mostly fine. They're effective at their role, which is to kill frigs and ceptors. Besides, it's a 700k hull that usually only costs six or seven mil to t2 fit. For their price destroyers seem pretty balanced to me.
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DARTHxFREE
Blue Republic
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Posted - 2009.11.06 11:56:00 -
[36]
Catalyst needs a combat tweek, far to gimped range, is to slow to get any were so rellies on enemy coming into range by choise.
the rest are fine.
2055 recorded volly from an arty thrasher, help CCP I can't 1 shot AF's.
100dps at 80km on a Cormorant
Good mid-range gank/range ratio on Coercer, similar to arty thrasher.
/join Cheeze & Whine Club
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Germaldi's Dad
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Posted - 2009.11.06 12:01:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Germaldi''s Dad on 06/11/2009 12:05:17
trasher will be getting a buff once the projectile weapons are buff'ed up
trasher will pwn alot more
coercer needs a second midslot to allow for tackle & ab/mwd
catalyst needs a lil more pg to fit those t2 rails & spike ammo for range
cormorant is well its a slow ass low hp shield tanker so it automatically fails at pvp - the only use i find its good at is remote sensor boosting other ships in your fleet
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Lunewraith
Amarr
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2009.11.06 14:59:00 -
[38]
Coercer with two mids might just make Dominon for me.
A Retribution with two mids would launch it into godly status. Would even trade the AB boost for it.
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Lendwill
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Posted - 2009.11.06 15:39:00 -
[39]
I think what is really needed is a new tier-2 frigate that is slightly tougher and perhaps uses different weapons ie drones for Gallente, missiles for Caldari etc.
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Shak'Rah
Gallente
The Unforgettables
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Posted - 2009.11.06 16:25:00 -
[40]
different weapons on a new dessie hull would be the best, to be totally honest. that ship class as a whole needs something new, not just boosts.
a caldari dessie that uses missiles, a gallente dessie with, say, 40m3 drone bay and 25 bandwidth, and last but not least an amarr dessie THAT CAN ACTUALLY FIT TACKLE
i'm pretty sure this is generally agreed upon by the community.
Imperfection is beauty, madness is genius, and it is better to be absolutely ridiculous than absolutely boring. |
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Becq Starforged
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.11.06 18:22:00 -
[41]
The problem with destroyers isn't their ability to inflict damage or their anti-frig capabilities; it's their capacity to recieve damage. Defensively they are a cruiser-sized target but without the ability to fit the buffer or active defenses of a cruiser. A frigate can easily out-tank a destroyer against cruisers and larger opposition, because the frigate will take less than half as much damage due to sig radius/speed. Against frigates, they are fine, but against anything larger than a frigate they are terrible.
Comparison (sig radius/base speed):
Punisher (38m 287m/s)
Cormorant (90m 244m/s)
Stabber (105m 231m/s)
The way to fix destroyers is not to buff their offenses. They just need their sig radius reduced and/or their tanking increased. Setting their sig radius to about +25% over frigates (as opposed to the current +100%) and giving them a +5% resist or repair rate per level would balance them out against cruisers while having little impact on their balance relative to frigates.
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Becq Starforged
The Flame of Freedom Burns On! |
Jagga Spikes
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.11.06 18:30:00 -
[42]
reducing sig and adding one low/mid would go a long way.
and while doing it, reduce model size as well. some destroyers are bigger than some cruisers.
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Ralnik
Red Federation
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Posted - 2009.11.06 19:01:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Ralnik on 06/11/2009 19:04:39
Originally by: Foraven
Originally by: Ralnik
Personally, I think Dessies are a bit overpowered. They can very easily dispatch up to 3 to 4 frigs before the frigs can kill the Dessie. That is unless the guy in the Dessie it a complete tard.
If I'm in a frig, I'll attack a cruiser before I'd even think about touching a destroyer unless the pilot is a total noob.
Much the same if I'm in a Cruiser, I'd attack a BS before I'd even think of a attacking a BC.
Fly a catalyst, then tell me it's overpowered. Can't put any good guns on them and they don't get damage bonuses. The only dessie i consider good is the thrasher, more fitting capability, it's fast, and projectiles don't drain your capacitor.
The cat is a awesome Anti interceptor platform but it's of course not a perfect fit. There is a set up over on Battle Clinic that I tested and it worked very well. It used Rails and tracking computer set up but required you to use no point.
You could hit Inti's out to 60km I think it was and switch ammo to still track them as close as 8 to 10km. I've never tried a blaster fit Cat, because I don't like the range on Blasters.
The Coercer is another awesome Dessie when fit total gank with no tank. You don't even need a tank with it, other than a DCU II because fitting the MDW and largest small pulses will tear things to shreds before they can get away. You just orbit @ 12km and rip things to shreds with scorch.
The only dessie I have no experience with is the Comm other than using it as a awesome salvage platform..(better than any of the others due to slot layout for cap rechargers.
While dessie aren't perfect, a clear example is the Coercer with only 1 mid. They are however awesome ships at doing what they are intended to do and that's kill crap loads of T1 & T2 frigs.
They aren't intended to do anything else and IMO they really do that job far too well IMO. In FW for example where Dessie get used a hell of a lot, it's pretty much suicide to jump into a plex if the other side has Destroyers and you only have frigs. |
Marchocias
Silent Ninja's
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Posted - 2009.11.06 19:01:00 -
[44]
I concur, the Thrasher is actually a great ship, for both PvE and PvP.
The only other one I've flown is a catalyst and it sucks arse. |
Ralnik
Red Federation
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Posted - 2009.11.06 19:17:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Becq Starforged
The problem with destroyers isn't their ability to inflict damage or their anti-frig capabilities; it's their capacity to recieve damage. Defensively they are a cruiser-sized target but without the ability to fit the buffer or active defenses of a cruiser. A frigate can easily out-tank a destroyer against cruisers and larger opposition, because the frigate will take less than half as much damage due to sig radius/speed. Against frigates, they are fine, but against anything larger than a frigate they are terrible.
Comparison (sig radius/base speed):
Punisher (38m 287m/s)
Cormorant (90m 244m/s)
Stabber (105m 231m/s)
The way to fix destroyers is not to buff their offenses. They just need their sig radius reduced and/or their tanking increased. Setting their sig radius to about +25% over frigates (as opposed to the current +100%) and giving them a +5% resist or repair rate per level would balance them out against cruisers while having little impact on their balance relative to frigates.
I disagree and think the sig size is just fine IMO. Destroyers are not meant to take on Cruisers solo and giving them that ability would make them way over powered.
I can tell you from experience that a pack of 4 to 5 Dessies will melt just about any cruiser in the game before the Cruiser can kill even one of the Dessies.
While I'd like to see a 2nd mid in say the Coercer it's really a tough call, because Dessies are already far over powered for their intended targets and they can absolutely wreak havoc in small gangs against larger targets.
IMO if you need a buff to the Dessie, you are doing it wrong and trying to go after the wrong targets or using bad fits.
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Seralder
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Posted - 2009.11.06 22:29:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Seralder on 06/11/2009 22:30:05
what destroyer do you fly?
trasher? or other faction?
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SlayerOfArgus
Gallente
The Industrial Federation
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Posted - 2009.11.07 01:24:00 -
[47]
There are different smaller buffs that could be applied to all destroyers to make them better. I do wish that the catalyst could hold more than one freaking drone 
Also I've noticed this: Why is there only ONE destroyer per race? I mean for practically all the tech 1 ships there are multiple ships in each class. I have never understood why there is only one destroyer. Maybe make some different types of destroyers for each race and then they will get more respect. All I use a destroyer now is for salvaging. Then again to be honest I'm not a PVP person.
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.11.07 06:23:00 -
[48]
Destroyers!!!!
Good cheap fun, lots of spank, very little tank. had enough shot out from under me know.
But they are very versatile in potential and experimentation, can deliver the fight, if not take it home, and don't break the bank.
People tend not to rig them because they pop, but rig one for a purpose and the door opens for some interesting stuff.
I agree the Gallente dessie really should have more drone space. C'mon now, if Gallente are supposed to be the drone race, then whoever designed the Cat should be tea-bagged with a sack of bowling balls.
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Sith LordX
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Posted - 2009.11.07 07:28:00 -
[49]
My bombs seem to like insta destroying destroyers. My SB is a anti destroyer frigate. lol
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Kant34
Amarr
The Society of Unconscious Thugs
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Posted - 2009.11.08 08:22:00 -
[50]
Well, a few things come to mind on how to possibly buff dessies.
Thrasher:
Fine as it is. Probably the best destroyer ingame.
Coercer:
MIDSLOT!!!!11eleven. Let it lose one gunpoint for giving it one more midslot.I want to tackle things without being forced to slowboat.
Cormorant:
Who uses these anyway? Suggestion: Make it a missile boat,sort of a miniature drake .
Catalyst:
Moar drones!! And perhaps a drone bonus. Make it like an ishkur for the poor!
I think that sums it up really.
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Savlin
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.11.10 20:35:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Savlin on 10/11/2009 20:36:11
I love destroyers, but atm in fights their role is kinda redundant.
They are good at shooting frigs as long as targets are within falloff range. But since small turrets have bad falloff and frigs generally move quickly. This according to me is one of the big backsides. In fleetfights they can be usefull but never fills a role that bigger ships cannot do as well, Eagle as an example.
In fact, they seem better geared towards salvaging now which do not reflect their description.
I would happily pay more for them and see them get boosted somewhat/ make them more usefull in pvp, or even better new t2 destroyers.
edit:
I like the idea of faction dessies.
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XIII'th
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Posted - 2009.11.11 10:19:00 -
[52]
My friend fly destroyer and have a lot frig solo kills, so i think dessie's are OK, just some ppl who fly it arent.
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