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Seralder	Posted - 2009.11.05 12:34:00 - [1] Edited by: Seralder on 05/11/2009 12:51:02 Got any news about Destroyers and Dominion? i hope CCP makes this boat again REALLY dangerous against frigattes the ship is at times just for lovers. Plz reviving the destroyer-class for PVP more CPU, more Energy and +1 oder +2 slots? a second t2 version? cover-ops-destroyer? rocket/torpedo destroyer (aka stealthbomber BUT WITHOUTt cover cloak)? Interdictors are nice... but only bubble & run tactics? :( i hope CCP dont forget the destroyer class... plz pimp my destroyer :D
AvatarOfHope Amarr	Posted - 2009.11.05 12:46:00 - [2] i like them how they are :) ♥Blue Ice♥ Every night in my dreams I see you, I feel you, That is how I know you go on...
Alfred Lichtenstein	Posted - 2009.11.05 13:05:00 - [3] Edited by: Alfred Lichtenstein on 05/11/2009 13:05:19 they are for salvaging! and yes a big anti capital Stealth bomber would be great! but it's never going to happen!
Faol'gus E X I U S	Posted - 2009.11.05 13:18:00 - [4] Eh? Destroyers are fantastic for killing frigates both long range and short range.
Seralder	Posted - 2009.11.05 13:19:00 - [5] Edited by: Seralder on 05/11/2009 13:21:02 Destroyer: Salvaging gunboats. The middle ground between a frigate-salvager and a cruiser-salvager? :D Interdictors: Bubble-class vessels, designed to bubble and escape in warp? :D
Bongo Debbie Minmatar Sekret Kool Klubb	Posted - 2009.11.05 13:24:00 - [6] Originally by: Faol'gus Eh? Destroyers are fantastic for killing frigates both long range and short range. Is that so ? ----
Liz Laser Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.11.05 14:16:00 - [7] CCP likes its subscriptions too much to grant a buff to the suicide ganker's favorite ship.
Mendolus Aurelius Federation Apotheosis of Virtue	Posted - 2009.11.05 14:23:00 - [8] Sniper BCs do just as well, have better range, and have more power. Destroyers are just below the weakest cruisers across the board. There is nowhere to buff them to IMO, esp. when their T2 counterparts can easily fit a decent sniper build in addition to carrying the usual payload of disrupt probes. My advice: L2T2 {...and they will respect a line drawn in the sand more than forgiveness}
Hellotherehowareyou Band of Bastards	Posted - 2009.11.05 14:34:00 - [9] Sniper BSs do just as well, have better range, and have more power. Destroyers are just below the weakest cruisers across the board. There is nowhere to buff them to IMO, esp. when their T2 counterparts can easily fit a decent sniper build in addition to carrying the usual payload of disrupt probes. My advice: L2T2
Ashani Osaka Amarr Ethereal Acolytes	Posted - 2009.11.05 14:44:00 - [10] ive always liked the idea of destroyers, they destroy things. fundamentaly theyre a piece of paper with guns on it, thats what theyre supposed to be. As for pvp, theyre dinfatly not a solo ship, the idea is simple, have a ship that can move fast + track fast enough to take down frigates. of course in a 1v1 this isnt going to happen, frigates can be set up to have a decent tank for 1, but in a fleet for example, a unsuspecting Ewar frig trying to jam the hell out of sniper boats is going to get a nasty kick up the bum. sure a bs or a cruiser could do it, but its about speed + tracking when your chasing a frig, and these things can bite. Even tho theyre designed for pve, lvl 1's + 2's, i still think this ship has more roles then people think. just stop trying to use it as a cruiser subsitute.

Ghoest	Posted - 2009.11.05 15:09:00 - [11] For a T1 ship the a good. The problem is they need a real T2 version. The interdictor is fine as an oddball special purpose ships but there should be a T2 destroyer that offers destroyer damage with a and somewhat improved survivability. Wherever you went - Here you are.
Anonymous Gallentean	Posted - 2009.11.05 15:15:00 - [12] Sniper Titans do just as well, have better range, and have more power. Destroyers are just below the weakest cruisers across the board. There is nowhere to buff them to IMO, esp. when their T2 counterparts can easily fit a decent sniper build in addition to carrying the usual payload of disrupt probes. My advice: L2CAP
Dretzle Omega Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.11.05 15:32:00 - [13] Originally by: Anonymous Gallentean There is nowhere to buff them to IMO One way: Make them rocket boats. (Of course I'm thinking Caldari, maybe blasters for the other races.) People hate rockets enough as it is, but give bonuses to destroyers to make them the one ship it really works to put rockets on. They won't have to fix rockets, just make them usable on a few ships.
Taedrin Gallente Tactical Command Sector	Posted - 2009.11.05 15:35:00 - [14] Originally by: Bongo Debbie Originally by: Faol'gus Eh? Destroyers are fantastic for killing frigates both long range and short range. Is that so ? To be quite frank, all of those fits are horrible. ---------- There is always a choice. The choice might not be easy, nor simple, nor the options be what you desire - but, nevertheless, the choice is there to be made.
Benco97 Gallente	Posted - 2009.11.05 15:39:00 - [15] Originally by: Bongo Debbie Originally by: Faol'gus Eh? Destroyers are fantastic for killing frigates both long range and short range. Is that so ? If it weren't for the terrible fits on these dessies I think I'd cry, Destroyers are great ships in the hands of someone who knows how to fit and fly one correctly. I'd say a good 75% of all my kills have been in a thrasher. Originally by: P'uck You're a DUMBASS - bold italic underline at the VERY LEAST.
Bongo Debbie Minmatar Sekret Kool Klubb	Posted - 2009.11.05 15:42:00 - [16] Curses I'm rumbled Yes those were terrible fits. I still like the first kill regardless. Go go Maulus ♥ ----
TimMc Gallente Brutal Deliverance Extreme Prejudice.	Posted - 2009.11.05 15:46:00 - [17] Originally by: Liz Laser CCP likes its subscriptions too much to grant a buff to the suicide ganker's favorite ship. lol the truth here.
Stupid McStupidson Gallente Hoek Lyne and Sinker	Posted - 2009.11.05 15:49:00 - [18] Originally by: Anonymous Gallentean Sniper Titans do just as well, have better range, and have more power. Destroyers are just below the weakest cruisers across the board. There is nowhere to buff them to IMO, esp. when their T2 counterparts can easily fit a decent sniper build in addition to carrying the usual payload of disrupt probes. My advice: L2CAP Oh man, it seems this one has run it's course.
Trustworthy Joe	Posted - 2009.11.05 17:20:00 - [19] Originally by: Seralder cover-ops-destroyer? actually i would love to see this in game. would be an interesting addition to say the least. want a sig? thats great! post it in response to my posts!
Rhatar Khurin Minmatar Dead poets society The Laughing Men	Posted - 2009.11.05 19:04:00 - [20] Edited by: Rhatar Khurin on 05/11/2009 19:05:02 Originally by: Bongo Debbie Originally by: Faol'gus Eh? Destroyers are fantastic for killing frigates both long range and short range. Is that so ? Yup, it's true! Yup, dessies can kill frigs pretty easily.

Killljoy	Posted - 2009.11.05 21:01:00 - [21] A T2 anti-cloaker ship would fit well in the destroyer range.
Zeredek	Posted - 2009.11.05 21:36:00 - [22] Originally by: Rhatar Khurin Edited by: Rhatar Khurin on 05/11/2009 19:05:02 Originally by: Bongo Debbie Originally by: Faol'gus Eh? Destroyers are fantastic for killing frigates both long range and short range. Is that so ? Yup, it's true! Yup, dessies can kill frigs pretty easily. I like how a pod was in involved parties and it's weapon was a 280mm Howitzer Artillery I -------------------
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.11.05 21:37:00 - [23] Originally by: Zeredek Originally by: Rhatar Khurin Edited by: Rhatar Khurin on 05/11/2009 19:05:02 Originally by: Bongo Debbie Originally by: Faol'gus Eh? Destroyers are fantastic for killing frigates both long range and short range. Is that so ? Yup, it's true! Yup, dessies can kill frigs pretty easily. I like how a pod was in involved parties and it's weapon was a 280mm Howitzer Artillery I Common bug. What of it? I like the ones where titans are killed and on the killmails of the people they doomsdayed it lists a pod using Gjallarhorn or Judgement or Aurora Ominae or whatever. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008 Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm:
Foraven Gallente	Posted - 2009.11.05 21:57:00 - [24] Originally by: Faol'gus Eh? Destroyers are fantastic for killing frigates both long range and short range. I use a Catalyst and it's subpar against frigates due to power grid issues (try to load good hybrids on it, it's a pain). I could load it with auto cannons, but then i would be better to use a thrasher instead. Strangely enough, the thrasher has better power grid than the Catalyst...
Panzram GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.11.05 22:31:00 - [25] the proposed changes to projectiles will make the suicide thrasher more effective
Rhanna Khurin Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.11.05 22:35:00 - [26] Originally by: Zeredek Originally by: Rhatar Khurin Edited by: Rhatar Khurin on 05/11/2009 19:05:02 Originally by: Bongo Debbie Originally by: Faol'gus Eh? Destroyers are fantastic for killing frigates both long range and short range. Is that so ? Yup, it's true! Yup, dessies can kill frigs pretty easily. I like how a pod was in involved parties and it's weapon was a 280mm Howitzer Artillery I Actually that guy was getting kited by the sentinel and caused no damage, i was in fleet with him as we were scouting around looking for plexs and saw him call to help. He did zero damage on the EW frig but i managed to jump in right on top and blast away. As i jumped in, a rifter appeared and started hitting me. But i got the sentinel and then died to the rifter. If you look at the cheap crap fit of the thrasher i was flying, it was a good isk kill/loss ratio
Megan Maynard Minmatar Clown Punchers. Clown Punchers Syndicate	Posted - 2009.11.05 22:56:00 - [27] lol....ahahaha.........mwahahaa.................BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Is this thread really happening? Please please boost destroyers, they are TERRIBLE. Totally need a boost. Please CCP, make these monsters of the alpha even more capable at wtfbbq'ing ceptors. Cause you know, they suck.
Foraven Gallente	Posted - 2009.11.05 23:29:00 - [28] Originally by: Megan Maynard lol....ahahaha.........mwahahaa.................BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Is this thread really happening? Please please boost destroyers, they are TERRIBLE. Totally need a boost. Please CCP, make these monsters of the alpha even more capable at wtfbbq'ing ceptors. Cause you know, they suck. I DO consider Destroyers terrible, don't know why you think they are overpowered (expet maybe the thrasher). If they are capable of webbing interceptors, that's what they are meant for, interceptor are frigate sized and destroyer are supposed to kill them. But my experience with my Catalyst is that that ship is at the bottom of the food chain...
Ralnik Red Federation	Posted - 2009.11.05 23:37:00 - [29] Personally, I think Dessies are a bit overpowered. They can very easily dispatch up to 3 to 4 frigs before the frigs can kill the Dessie. That is unless the guy in the Dessie it a complete tard. If I'm in a frig, I'll attack a cruiser before I'd even think about touching a destroyer unless the pilot is a total noob. Much the same if I'm in a Cruiser, I'd attack a BS before I'd even think of a attacking a BC.
Miss Xoco Minmatar Native Freshfood	Posted - 2009.11.05 23:53:00 - [30] I think destroyers are still very powerful frig killers. Its a very cheap ship and its able to be a serious threat even to T2 AF ships. I know it because my Wolf almost got eaten by a destroyer. Destroyers are awesome for low level missions against other frigs. Do you seriously want a destroyer to be able to smash T2 frigs like a hammer a coconut? Would be pretty unbalanced, because a destroyer is a cheap ship mainly for rookies and for that matter its just awesome.

Foraven Gallente	Posted - 2009.11.05 23:57:00 - [31] Originally by: Ralnik Personally, I think Dessies are a bit overpowered. They can very easily dispatch up to 3 to 4 frigs before the frigs can kill the Dessie. That is unless the guy in the Dessie it a complete tard. If I'm in a frig, I'll attack a cruiser before I'd even think about touching a destroyer unless the pilot is a total noob. Much the same if I'm in a Cruiser, I'd attack a BS before I'd even think of a attacking a BC. Fly a catalyst, then tell me it's overpowered. Can't put any good guns on them and they don't get damage bonuses. The only dessie i consider good is the thrasher, more fitting capability, it's fast, and projectiles don't drain your capacitor.
Havohej Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.11.06 00:24:00 - [32] Originally by: Miss Xoco I think destroyers are still very powerful frig killers. Its a very cheap ship and its able to be a serious threat even to T2 AF ships. I know it because my Wolf almost got eaten by a destroyer. That wasn't because destroyers are so good. Du'uma Fiisi is Recruiting
Don Pellegrino	Posted - 2009.11.06 01:08:00 - [33] The thrasher is perfect, all the other ones are CLEARLY broken and not worth flying in pvp (I don't really consider suicide ganking to be pvp...). Make them on par with the Thrasher, but still all different. Same for Interdictors (Eris vs Sabre, anyone? lol).
eFart Minmatar	Posted - 2009.11.06 02:02:00 - [34] dude destoyers
Smabs	Posted - 2009.11.06 10:10:00 - [35] Destroyers are mostly fine. They're effective at their role, which is to kill frigs and ceptors. Besides, it's a 700k hull that usually only costs six or seven mil to t2 fit. For their price destroyers seem pretty balanced to me.
DARTHxFREE Blue Republic	Posted - 2009.11.06 11:56:00 - [36] Catalyst needs a combat tweek, far to gimped range, is to slow to get any were so rellies on enemy coming into range by choise. the rest are fine. 2055 recorded volly from an arty thrasher, help CCP I can't 1 shot AF's. 100dps at 80km on a Cormorant Good mid-range gank/range ratio on Coercer, similar to arty thrasher. /join Cheeze & Whine Club
Germaldi's Dad	Posted - 2009.11.06 12:01:00 - [37] Edited by: Germaldi''s Dad on 06/11/2009 12:05:17 trasher will be getting a buff once the projectile weapons are buff'ed up trasher will pwn alot more coercer needs a second midslot to allow for tackle & ab/mwd catalyst needs a lil more pg to fit those t2 rails & spike ammo for range cormorant is well its a slow ass low hp shield tanker so it automatically fails at pvp - the only use i find its good at is remote sensor boosting other ships in your fleet
Lunewraith Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2009.11.06 14:59:00 - [38] Coercer with two mids might just make Dominon for me. A Retribution with two mids would launch it into godly status. Would even trade the AB boost for it.
Lendwill	Posted - 2009.11.06 15:39:00 - [39] I think what is really needed is a new tier-2 frigate that is slightly tougher and perhaps uses different weapons ie drones for Gallente, missiles for Caldari etc.
Shak'Rah Gallente The Unforgettables	Posted - 2009.11.06 16:25:00 - [40] different weapons on a new dessie hull would be the best, to be totally honest. that ship class as a whole needs something new, not just boosts. a caldari dessie that uses missiles, a gallente dessie with, say, 40m3 drone bay and 25 bandwidth, and last but not least an amarr dessie THAT CAN ACTUALLY FIT TACKLE i'm pretty sure this is generally agreed upon by the community. Imperfection is beauty, madness is genius, and it is better to be absolutely ridiculous than absolutely boring.

Becq Starforged Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.11.06 18:22:00 - [41] The problem with destroyers isn't their ability to inflict damage or their anti-frig capabilities; it's their capacity to recieve damage. Defensively they are a cruiser-sized target but without the ability to fit the buffer or active defenses of a cruiser. A frigate can easily out-tank a destroyer against cruisers and larger opposition, because the frigate will take less than half as much damage due to sig radius/speed. Against frigates, they are fine, but against anything larger than a frigate they are terrible. Comparison (sig radius/base speed): Punisher (38m 287m/s) Cormorant (90m 244m/s) Stabber (105m 231m/s) The way to fix destroyers is not to buff their offenses. They just need their sig radius reduced and/or their tanking increased. Setting their sig radius to about +25% over frigates (as opposed to the current +100%) and giving them a +5% resist or repair rate per level would balance them out against cruisers while having little impact on their balance relative to frigates. -- Becq Starforged The Flame of Freedom Burns On!
Jagga Spikes Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.11.06 18:30:00 - [42] reducing sig and adding one low/mid would go a long way. and while doing it, reduce model size as well. some destroyers are bigger than some cruisers.
Ralnik Red Federation	Posted - 2009.11.06 19:01:00 - [43] Edited by: Ralnik on 06/11/2009 19:04:39 Originally by: Foraven Originally by: Ralnik Personally, I think Dessies are a bit overpowered. They can very easily dispatch up to 3 to 4 frigs before the frigs can kill the Dessie. That is unless the guy in the Dessie it a complete tard. If I'm in a frig, I'll attack a cruiser before I'd even think about touching a destroyer unless the pilot is a total noob. Much the same if I'm in a Cruiser, I'd attack a BS before I'd even think of a attacking a BC. Fly a catalyst, then tell me it's overpowered. Can't put any good guns on them and they don't get damage bonuses. The only dessie i consider good is the thrasher, more fitting capability, it's fast, and projectiles don't drain your capacitor. The cat is a awesome Anti interceptor platform but it's of course not a perfect fit. There is a set up over on Battle Clinic that I tested and it worked very well. It used Rails and tracking computer set up but required you to use no point. You could hit Inti's out to 60km I think it was and switch ammo to still track them as close as 8 to 10km. I've never tried a blaster fit Cat, because I don't like the range on Blasters. The Coercer is another awesome Dessie when fit total gank with no tank. You don't even need a tank with it, other than a DCU II because fitting the MDW and largest small pulses will tear things to shreds before they can get away. You just orbit @ 12km and rip things to shreds with scorch. The only dessie I have no experience with is the Comm other than using it as a awesome salvage platform..(better than any of the others due to slot layout for cap rechargers. While dessie aren't perfect, a clear example is the Coercer with only 1 mid. They are however awesome ships at doing what they are intended to do and that's kill crap loads of T1 & T2 frigs. They aren't intended to do anything else and IMO they really do that job far too well IMO. In FW for example where Dessie get used a hell of a lot, it's pretty much suicide to jump into a plex if the other side has Destroyers and you only have frigs.
Marchocias Silent Ninja's	Posted - 2009.11.06 19:01:00 - [44] I concur, the Thrasher is actually a great ship, for both PvE and PvP. The only other one I've flown is a catalyst and it sucks arse.
Ralnik Red Federation	Posted - 2009.11.06 19:17:00 - [45] Originally by: Becq Starforged The problem with destroyers isn't their ability to inflict damage or their anti-frig capabilities; it's their capacity to recieve damage. Defensively they are a cruiser-sized target but without the ability to fit the buffer or active defenses of a cruiser. A frigate can easily out-tank a destroyer against cruisers and larger opposition, because the frigate will take less than half as much damage due to sig radius/speed. Against frigates, they are fine, but against anything larger than a frigate they are terrible. Comparison (sig radius/base speed): Punisher (38m 287m/s) Cormorant (90m 244m/s) Stabber (105m 231m/s) The way to fix destroyers is not to buff their offenses. They just need their sig radius reduced and/or their tanking increased. Setting their sig radius to about +25% over frigates (as opposed to the current +100%) and giving them a +5% resist or repair rate per level would balance them out against cruisers while having little impact on their balance relative to frigates. I disagree and think the sig size is just fine IMO. Destroyers are not meant to take on Cruisers solo and giving them that ability would make them way over powered. I can tell you from experience that a pack of 4 to 5 Dessies will melt just about any cruiser in the game before the Cruiser can kill even one of the Dessies. While I'd like to see a 2nd mid in say the Coercer it's really a tough call, because Dessies are already far over powered for their intended targets and they can absolutely wreak havoc in small gangs against larger targets. IMO if you need a buff to the Dessie, you are doing it wrong and trying to go after the wrong targets or using bad fits.
Seralder	Posted - 2009.11.06 22:29:00 - [46] Edited by: Seralder on 06/11/2009 22:30:05 what destroyer do you fly? trasher? or other faction?
SlayerOfArgus Gallente The Industrial Federation	Posted - 2009.11.07 01:24:00 - [47] There are different smaller buffs that could be applied to all destroyers to make them better. I do wish that the catalyst could hold more than one freaking drone Also I've noticed this: Why is there only ONE destroyer per race? I mean for practically all the tech 1 ships there are multiple ships in each class. I have never understood why there is only one destroyer. Maybe make some different types of destroyers for each race and then they will get more respect. All I use a destroyer now is for salvaging. Then again to be honest I'm not a PVP person.
Herzog Wolfhammer Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2009.11.07 06:23:00 - [48] Destroyers!!!! Good cheap fun, lots of spank, very little tank. had enough shot out from under me know. But they are very versatile in potential and experimentation, can deliver the fight, if not take it home, and don't break the bank. People tend not to rig them because they pop, but rig one for a purpose and the door opens for some interesting stuff. I agree the Gallente dessie really should have more drone space. C'mon now, if Gallente are supposed to be the drone race, then whoever designed the Cat should be tea-bagged with a sack of bowling balls.
Sith LordX	Posted - 2009.11.07 07:28:00 - [49] My bombs seem to like insta destroying destroyers. My SB is a anti destroyer frigate. lol
Kant34 Amarr The Society of Unconscious Thugs	Posted - 2009.11.08 08:22:00 - [50] Well, a few things come to mind on how to possibly buff dessies. Thrasher: Fine as it is. Probably the best destroyer ingame. Coercer: MIDSLOT!!!!11eleven. Let it lose one gunpoint for giving it one more midslot.I want to tackle things without being forced to slowboat. Cormorant: Who uses these anyway? Suggestion: Make it a missile boat,sort of a miniature drake . Catalyst: Moar drones!! And perhaps a drone bonus. Make it like an ishkur for the poor! I think that sums it up really.

Savlin Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2009.11.10 20:35:00 - [51] Edited by: Savlin on 10/11/2009 20:36:11 I love destroyers, but atm in fights their role is kinda redundant. They are good at shooting frigs as long as targets are within falloff range. But since small turrets have bad falloff and frigs generally move quickly. This according to me is one of the big backsides. In fleetfights they can be usefull but never fills a role that bigger ships cannot do as well, Eagle as an example. In fact, they seem better geared towards salvaging now which do not reflect their description. I would happily pay more for them and see them get boosted somewhat/ make them more usefull in pvp, or even better new t2 destroyers. edit: I like the idea of faction dessies.
XIII'th	Posted - 2009.11.11 10:19:00 - [52] My friend fly destroyer and have a lot frig solo kills, so i think dessie's are OK, just some ppl who fly it arent.


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