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Siwopo
Amarr
ORE Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.11.06 22:18:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Si***o on 06/11/2009 22:20:10
Ice market after Dominion? Will it crash?
Upkeep, latest devblog... So you need ISK to keep sov, no ice needed as fuel. No logistics needed for fuel POS's to keep your sov running...
Opinnions?
EDIT: Also, it seems that you can make any 0.0 (not npc) system as good as best 0.0 truesec system right now after you have held the system for 100 days.. Providence, YAY for CVA 
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Breaker77
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.06 22:21:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Si***o
Upkeep, latest devblog... So you need ISK to keep sov, no ice needed as fuel. No logistics needed for fuel POS's to keep your sov running...
How true, Moon mining will be possible with velators and Freighters will **** out Titans.
The ice market is doomed!!!
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Siekre
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Posted - 2009.11.06 22:58:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Siekre on 06/11/2009 23:00:39
Originally by: Breaker77
Originally by: Si***o
Upkeep, latest devblog... So you need ISK to keep sov, no ice needed as fuel. No logistics needed for fuel POS's to keep your sov running...
How true, Moon mining will be possible with velators and Freighters will **** out Titans.
The ice market is doomed!!!
Read the blog... ISK is only thing you need...
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=711
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Breaker77
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.06 23:22:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Siekre
Read the blog... ISK is only thing you need...]
read the question
Quote:
Ice market after Dominion? Will it crash?
No it won't crash, POSes will still be needed for moon mining, reactions, alchemy, supercap production (?) and research (highsec).
Will POSes be taken down or abandoned after Dominion? Possibly. I liked it when isotopes were 200 a unit and ice was about 70k a block  Even at current prices it's a waste to mine ice and most ores are still worth more on an ISK/hr comparison.
Can't really crash when it's unprofitable currently.
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Siekre
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Posted - 2009.11.06 23:47:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Breaker77
No it won't crash, POSes will still be needed for moon mining, reactions, alchemy, supercap production (?) and research (highsec).
Yes it will.
Did you know that currently you need to have 51% of the moons to achieve and keep sov?
Did you know that for example in Delve there is 4330 moons? To achieve sov in the whole region, you need to have 2210 POS's there (full competition).
Did you know that you don't have to fuel those moons after 1st December?
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Breaker77
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.06 23:52:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Breaker77 on 06/11/2009 23:52:59
Originally by: Siekre
Did you know that you don't have to fuel those moons after 1st December?
Did you know that after december 1st it will cost over 2 billion in upkeep fees for a system with jump bridge, cyno jammer, and cyno generator??
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=711
Roid mining and ratting won't cover it. Every single moon in a system will have a POS just to be able to pay the bills.
If anything Ice will go up in price unless alliance have huge ice mining ops to fuel their towers.
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Siekre
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Posted - 2009.11.07 00:07:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Siekre on 07/11/2009 00:07:56
Originally by: Breaker77
Edited by: Breaker77 on 06/11/2009 23:52:59
Originally by: Siekre
Did you know that you don't have to fuel those moons after 1st December?
Every single moon in a system will have a POS just to be able to pay the bills.
If anything Ice will go up in price unless alliance have huge ice mining ops to fuel their towers.
LMFAO
Please tell us, how the POS's will generate the ISK? With TOTALLY worthless moon minerals? (Akita's market research for dominion)
EDIT: The worthless moons will cost more to mine than they will generate...
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Breaker77
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.07 00:10:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Siekre
LMFAO
Please tell us, how the POS's will generate the ISK? With TOTALLY worthless moon minerals? (Akita's market research for dominion)
EDIT: The worthless moons will cost more to mine than they will generate...
I suppose ratting will generate 2 billion a month?
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Siwopo
Amarr
ORE Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.11.07 00:12:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Si***o on 07/11/2009 00:13:44
Edited by: Si***o on 07/11/2009 00:12:53
Originally by: Breaker77
Originally by: Siekre
LMFAO
Please tell us, how the POS's will generate the ISK? With TOTALLY worthless moon minerals? (Akita's market research for dominion)
EDIT: The worthless moons will cost more to mine than they will generate...
I suppose ratting will generate 2 billion a month?
One guy in under -0.5 0.0 system does 40 M ISK per hour. Now take into count that more you rat in dominion, the better rats you will get in your system.... 2 B ISK is nothing.
Quote:
Military Index The military index is based upon killing NPCs, a favourite past time of many of you and you get more points, the bigger the NPC is. Simple and straightforward!
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Breaker77
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.07 00:17:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Si***o
One guy in under -0.5 0.0 system does 40 M ISK per hour. Now take into count that more you rat in dominion, the better rats you will get in your system.... 2 B ISK is nothing.
Which most of 0.0 is crappy truesec to begin with and rats are finite in a way. But with faction and office spawns yes it would be possible at least until the rats are overfarmed amd prices drop.
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Siekre
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Posted - 2009.11.07 00:42:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Breaker77
Originally by: Si***o
One guy in under -0.5 0.0 system does 40 M ISK per hour. Now take into count that more you rat in dominion, the better rats you will get in your system.... 2 B ISK is nothing.
Which most of 0.0 is crappy truesec to begin with and rats are finite in a way. But with faction and office spawns yes it would be possible at least until the rats are overfarmed amd prices drop.
So in wich point you didn't get that after Dominion, even providence will be as good for ratting as Delve is...?
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Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
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Posted - 2009.11.07 01:19:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Siekre
So in wich point you didn't get that after Dominion, even providence will be as good for ratting as Delve is...?
Please point us to the proof of this?
All I've seen is "Pirate Magnets" that generate 2(lol) extra sites in a system per level, and that you get the points for those upgrades by shooting rats. Nothing about the rats getting higher bounties, or truesec changing.
80% of 0.0 will still be crap for NPCing ( crap sec rating ) and no alliance is going to bother with an upgrade that allows, at most, 5 more persons to make use of the system.
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Yarinor
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Posted - 2009.11.07 07:30:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Siekre
Did you know that currently you need to have 51% of the moons to achieve and keep sov?
Did you know it's only the held moons that count?
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Dark-Rising
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.07 10:13:00 -
[14]
Quote:
I suppose ratting will generate 2 billion a month?
IIRC some weeks ago we made a corp op to farm money and at the end of the day we bought some dreads with it...
-
Auditing and consulting
Before asking for investors, please read
http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and
http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Nika Dekaia
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Posted - 2009.11.07 18:27:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Pohbis
Originally by: Siekre
So in wich point you didn't get that after Dominion, even providence will be as good for ratting as Delve is...?
Please point us to the proof of this?
All I've seen is "Pirate Magnets" that generate 2(lol) extra sites in a system per level, and that you get the points for those upgrades by shooting rats. Nothing about the rats getting higher bounties, or truesec changing.
80% of 0.0 will still be crap for NPCing ( crap sec rating ) and no alliance is going to bother with an upgrade that allows, at most, 5 more persons to make use of the system.
Linkage The upgrade will provide a fixed number of anomalies (finish one, another one spawns instantly and you just scan it down with the onboard scanner in 30 sec.). So 15-20 players per system, as Soundwave stated, is realistic.
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cosmoray
Bella Vista Holdings Corp
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Posted - 2009.11.07 21:53:00 -
[16]
Lots of towers will be coming down after Dominion, so its likely that Ice will be even more worthless.
raising cash for 0.0 corp is easy. All corps will up their tax to pay for system control.
e.g. 10% tax
If an average pilot in 0.0 makes 20M/hr ratting that means corp will get 2M/player hr ratting.
In a large corp that only means that every player in a corp will be required to run 2-4 hrs ratting a month. No big deal.
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Dr Karsun
Gallente
HUSARIA
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.22 13:12:00 -
[17]
I guess that after dominion the market will be completely flooded with pos fuel that nobody needs so the prices will dramatically crash to next-to-nothing level and then, when most people will just quit mining ice and turn to ores (that will cause a massive ore price crash that will cause even more insurance frauds). I think that ice prices will be lower, not much, maybe 20%, but lower and they will stay that way. They must be profitable enough for macro miners to get their plex and still transfer a bit of cash to their main (or be able to sell it thre ebay or whatever other way they sell it). The price won't drop below that level, not sure what level 'that' is. If you mine 23/7 it can be really funny.
The less funny part is that I just started to produce my crystalline carbonide in a pos... And the price just crashed 20% 
Making custom signatures and banners - check my in-game bio for details!
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Floating Lemming
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Posted - 2009.11.22 14:39:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Breaker77
Originally by: Si***o
One guy in under -0.5 0.0 system does 40 M ISK per hour. Now take into count that more you rat in dominion, the better rats you will get in your system.... 2 B ISK is nothing.
Which most of 0.0 is crappy truesec to begin with and rats are finite in a way. But with faction and office spawns yes it would be possible at least until the rats are overfarmed amd prices drop.
Its just this for major 1k++ member alliances.
Assuming 1 player(it can be multiple people , at different times) Rats 23/7 for 1 month.
That gives us 690 hours * 40 million isk/hour = 27600 million isk.
As an example it would mean that if an alliance always had 2 people ratting at any one time the total montly income should be 50+b isk. I reckon most have a few more than that.
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Dave Meltdown
Capital Construction Inc.
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Posted - 2009.11.22 15:26:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Dave Meltdown on 22/11/2009 15:32:20
Originally by: Si***o
EDIT: Also, it seems that you can make any 0.0 (not npc) system as good as best 0.0 truesec system right now after you have held the system for 100 days.. Providence, YAY for CVA
U will never get the same chance of "special" spawns faction/hauler/officer as u do in true sec... that would completly crash the existing faction module market..
Originally by: Floating Lemming
Originally by: Breaker77
Originally by: Si***o
One guy in under -0.5 0.0 system does 40 M ISK per hour. Now take into count that more you rat in dominion, the better rats you will get in your system.... 2 B ISK is nothing.
Which most of 0.0 is crappy truesec to begin with and rats are finite in a way. But with faction and office spawns yes it would be possible at least until the rats are overfarmed amd prices drop.
Its just this for major 1k++ member alliances.
Assuming 1 player(it can be multiple people , at different times) Rats 23/7 for 1 month.
That gives us 690 hours * 40 million isk/hour = 27600 million isk.
As an example it would mean that if an alliance always had 2 people ratting at any one time the total montly income should be 50+b isk. I reckon most have a few more than that.
Now concider that there are only an handfull of these -0.50 systems in hands of 1 alliance and that the tax is 10%.. more realsitic figur is 30m per hour because taxes dont affects faction spawn income... 30 x 690 x 0,10= 2070 million
And with the other 80% of space that is crap: 20 x 690 x 0,10 = 1380 million
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Sophie Daigneau
CAPITAL Assistance in Destruction Society
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.22 15:59:00 -
[20]
Your numbers on how much a large alliance takes in from ratting taxes is off by more than just a little bit.
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Tesal
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Posted - 2009.11.23 05:19:00 -
[21]
Biggest difference will be a switch between CPU and Grid, fewer death stars using max grid and more industry POS using max CPU. There will probably also be a change in what kind of POS is most desirable. Fewer Amarr/Minmatar POS and more Caldari. This will affect ice prices the most I think.
never stop posting...with alts.
Please do not use inappropriate language in your sig. Zymurgist |
Shadow Bloodtear
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Posted - 2009.11.23 08:16:00 -
[22]
Everyone is doing moon reactions in an attempt to be prepared for release. The increased demand for common moon minerals is leading to the creation (upkeep costs) of more POS, which in turn makes ice prices go up. It's possible that these reaction POSes will offset the loss of POSs due to sov issues.
Money is a strong motivator, and everyone wants in on the reactions game. We will see how this plays out |
OMG ItsATrap
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Posted - 2009.11.25 22:52:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Sophie Daigneau
Your numbers on how much a large alliance takes in from ratting taxes is off by more than just a little bit.
Only true in a carebear heavy alliance tbh. Oh wai---
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Breaker77
Gallente
Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2009.12.23 18:39:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Siekre
Originally by: Breaker77
No it won't crash
Yes it will.
Just wanted to follow up on the crashing of ice products.
Faction towers over 1.6 billion each, Isotopes nearing 500 ISK/unit (~10% increase since Dominion), and Liquid Ozone nearing 400 ISK/unit (~30% increase).
The new sov system sure did a lot to reduce the number of POSes needed.
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Tau Cabalander
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.12.23 22:36:00 -
[25]
I think the ice products price increases may be a season related bubble, but I was really hoping to see POS structure prices falling and they have not.
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Hera Ominae
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Posted - 2009.12.24 00:33:00 -
[26]
Supply reduced?
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Rip Minner
Gallente
Freewind Ventures
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Posted - 2009.12.24 05:38:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Hera Ominae
Supply reduced?
Nope just more reasons to use towers in wormholes and low sec now. Fewer reasons to have more then what you realy need in sov.
Is it a rock? Point a Lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship? Point a Lazer at it and profit. I dont realy see any differnces here. |
Jennifer Celeste
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Posted - 2009.12.24 06:41:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Jennifer Celeste on 24/12/2009 06:40:55
snype phail |
Traxman
Ghost Investments Inc
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Posted - 2009.12.24 08:33:00 -
[29]
CCP meaby did have a plan, so less POS to hold Sov, but more POS for doing moon mining due to the changes of ships building req.
Meaby there is need of more POSes now than before, so the price will go up instead ;)
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Breaker77
Gallente
Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2009.12.24 12:11:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Traxman
Meaby there is need of more POSes now than before, so the price will go up instead ;)
I had mentioned that before Dominion and everyone said I was an idiot. So it's kinda nice to see I was right and everyone else was wrong
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