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CCP Fallout	Posted - 2009.11.09 13:36:00 - [1] The Third Quarterly Economic Report is published. Learn all about how well EVE's economy has been doing during the third quarter, and how Unholy Rage has made its mark in Dr.EyjoG's newest dev blog. Fallout Associate Community Manager CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact us


Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2009.11.09 13:47:00 - [2] I'm not telling! Secure 3rd party service

Batolemaeus Caldari Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.11.09 13:48:00 - [3] Finally something worth reading. ---------------------------------------------- Originally by: CCP Prism X In New Eden, EVE wins you.
Virtuozzo The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2009.11.09 13:53:00 - [4] Well, ok. Done reading.
Dratic Honour Bound Eternal Rapture	Posted - 2009.11.09 14:33:00 - [5] Yup not a lot of new stuff in there if you watched the fanfest videos. Would be interesting to see in the next one some analysis of the recent market speculation around moon materials.
Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles	Posted - 2009.11.09 14:37:00 - [6] Bravo on the prompt delivery! Now reading... --- 34.4:1 mineral compression ISRC Racing, Season 7 - schedule
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2009.11.09 14:37:00 - [7] It would be interesting to see not only the top 10 most used ships in total Eve but a finer granularity. What are the top 10 most used ships in high sec, low sec and 0.0? From that it is maybe possible to see the different styles of gameplay and that might be relevant to game design decisions also ... maybe.
Luke S Mad Bombers	Posted - 2009.11.09 14:48:00 - [8] that's a lot of pretty pictures ---
Dave Meltdown Capital Construction Inc.	Posted - 2009.11.09 15:57:00 - [9] Nice one! Before adding more gravi sites trough upgrades in dominion, pls adjust the L4 loot tables/drone alloys to get the income of L4's more inline with 0.0 activities and boost mining ABC ores so that its worth mining with ships instead of mining by refining
Winksos Transbithan	Posted - 2009.11.09 16:21:00 - [10] Quote: This might be a good lesson regarding our real life economies, showing that if we allow markets to adjust without intervention from governments they correct much quicker than when we try to steer prices to the "correct" level - given that the rules of the market are clear and that information flows relatively freely between agents on the market. Rules of the market clear? Free flowing information? This reminds me of the joke about the chemist, the physicist, and the economist stranded on a desert island with no can opener. They come upon a cache of canned goods. Each specialist offers suggestions how to open the cans according to the lights of their professionùwhen it comes to the economist, he says, "Assume we have a can opener..."
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2009.11.09 16:35:00 - [11] Great work. While I'm sure there is a tremendous amount of work that goes into producing a QEN such as this, I have a suggestion: how about administering a player poll with respect to what the players would like to see information wise in the next QEN? All this QEN tells me is that CCP is trying to reinforce their position that RMT is bad for the game. Yeah, we get it. Now let's get on to something more interesting please. -- Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam. Tier 5 Battleships
Karma Vortex Incorporated	Posted - 2009.11.09 16:37:00 - [12] Excellent! a new bed-time-story to tell the kids =^_^= will read now.
Kanuo Ashkeron Wormhole supervisory and Investigation team Blanket Men	Posted - 2009.11.09 17:03:00 - [13] Originally by: Bellum Eternus I have a suggestion: how about administering a player poll with respect to what the players would like to see information wise in the next QEN? What¦s about like making suggestions in this thread? So I would like to see, which are all of the ISK faucets and sinks, and how much to they contribute to the eve money flow (granulated by high, low, nullsec and so on).
Jason Edwards Internet Tough Guy	Posted - 2009.11.09 17:17:00 - [14] Some interesting points ive noticed. Dreads dropped nearly 25% I would like to know the makeup; Has there been an increase in revelations or at least a decrease not in the same proportion as the other 3? Or perhaps due to boosts of the naglfar and pheonix. Increase there? The one I really am interested in is the moros. I've been monitoring the price of the moros since the dev blog. For example right now revelation mineral wise costs 1bil to build. While they continue to sell for about 1.3-1.5bil. Which is roughly expected. The build price is more or less the same for moros. Yet they are selling for 1.1bil at extensive volume. Which @ the time of the dev blog. The moros and revelation were pretty much running the same in value. From what I'm seeing. People are dropping moros like mad onto the market to be sold. To the point that there's pretty much no profit in production of moros any longer and that the only are holding this price because of platinum insurance vs fun. The other issue I have seen. Black ops being the most unused ship. in other words... THERE ARE MORE TITANS THEN BLACK OPS! Is this not perfect reasoning to boost black ops to being more capable? Personally I fly black ops constantly. I only due so purely for the epeen value of it. I wouldnt ever dream of leaving highsec with the black ops. For ANY reason or situation. ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe. ------------------------ Life sucks and then you get podded.
Kweel Nakashyn shadow and cloaking Mordus Angels	Posted - 2009.11.09 18:22:00 - [15] Originally by: Jason Edwards THERE ARE MORE TITANS THEN BLACK OPS! Join us, we stealth guys got ~~titans~~ blackops. :) ~ Beer > Eve ? Eve > Beer ?
Skyvyr Caldari House Of BlackStar Semper-Mortis	Posted - 2009.11.09 19:12:00 - [16] The number of characters in dreads during the snapshot was lower due to actual wars being waged? They were likely in other ships if they had no POS to shoot at the time. I wish we could get a count of the ships on active accounts, not just who was in what. -- I often heard the Sky's the limit, sadly I'm broke fairly often.
Artanato	Posted - 2009.11.09 19:14:00 - [17] Edited by: Artanato on 09/11/2009 19:14:27 Originally by: CCP Dr.EyjoG ...This might be a good lesson regarding our real life economies, showing that if we allow markets to adjust without intervention from governments they correct much quicker than when we try to steer prices to the "correct" level - given that the rules of the market are clear and that information flows relatively freely between agents on the market. Keep the RL politics out of it please! (The prices that the laws of the market chooses is not always the price that is most fair for the average man, or the society as a whole)
Dogsarepe Caldari	Posted - 2009.11.09 20:08:00 - [18] Originally by: Artanato Edited by: Artanato on 09/11/2009 19:14:27 Keep the RL politics out of it please! (The prices that the laws of the market chooses is not always the price that is most fair for the average man, or the society as a whole) I don't think there is anything political there at all, really... more about economic systems and approaches. Don't want to get into a debate over idealogy here, but I think what he is suggesting is that it was seen here that if you let people work it out themselves, then economic reactions and adjustments occur quickly and stabilization is obtained, allowing growth to begin again. Where otherwise artificial maneuvering works against the people in the long term by burdening them with false premises and illogical assumptions.
Scouty McScoutersen	Posted - 2009.11.09 20:27:00 - [19] Edited by: Scouty McScoutersen on 09/11/2009 20:28:12 Originally by: Dogsarepe I don't think there is anything political there at all, really... wrong. there's a lot of discussion that can be had on that topic and all of it strays into RL politics so probably best kept out of here
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.11.09 20:46:00 - [20] Edited by: Akita T on 09/11/2009 20:48:08 _ Some interesting data for the "regular player", I guess. However, for somebody with a decent knowledge of EVE's economy, a bit of spare time following the MD forums, devblogs and to look at in-game market data, the report was... a bit bland, to put it mildly. Seriously, there was pretty much nothing of consequence in there that could be regarded even as somewhat of a surprise, let alone newsworthy, not at the time the QEN appeared. EDIT : ok, ok, my bad, "motherships/dreadnoughts in use" counts might qualify as newsworthy. Oh well, I suppose that's the point of the QEN, to give everybody a decent overview of what was going on. Carry on the good work then... _ We are recruiting \| Beginer's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.11.09 21:01:00 - [21] Originally by: Chribba I'm not telling! Chribba is just pro at market manipulation
Jellygoop Caldari Band of Brothermans	Posted - 2009.11.09 21:03:00 - [22] What are those ships on page 3 of the pdf? They sorta look like beefed up versions of the Maulus.
Pseudo Sasaya	Posted - 2009.11.09 21:59:00 - [23] This still leaves me curious what the false positive rate on the 'unholy rage' was. From what I gathered there was no appeal process nor any ability to view evidence... so it leaves open the question of 'what percent of RMTs were caught' vs 'what percentage of accused RMTs were innocent'. Since the benefits to CCP for unholy rage were political and economic, but NOT related to necessarily shutting down real traders.. ..it is a question worth asking. In the thread they talked with glee at the economic and sever effects, but those could be just as easily obtained by banning normal high use carebares.
Flamewave Crimson Moon Society	Posted - 2009.11.09 22:03:00 - [24] Originally by: Jellygoop What are those ships on page 3 of the pdf? They sorta look like beefed up versions of the Maulus. I believe they're the new Amarr fighter bombers, used by carriers. __________
Prodigal Caldari New Genesis Project	Posted - 2009.11.09 22:19:00 - [25] It was a bit disappointing to not see any more demographic information (if there is any) on how many players populate high, low and null sec. As a CSM Candidate for the 4th round, these types of statistics are very important in giving us direction as to possibly where efforts should be focused. Please make these and possibly other demographics standard reports in the QEN! Cheers, Prodigal
Andrea Griffin	Posted - 2009.11.10 00:25:00 - [26] Thank you very much for all of your hard work.
rubico1337 Caldari Mnemonic Enterprises	Posted - 2009.11.10 01:06:00 - [27] Originally by: Artanato (The prices that the laws of the market chooses is not always the price that is most fair for the average man, or the society as a whole) everyone point an laugh at the socialist
Jellygoop Caldari Band of Brothermans	Posted - 2009.11.10 02:06:00 - [28] Originally by: Flamewave Originally by: Jellygoop What are those ships on page 3 of the pdf? They sorta look like beefed up versions of the Maulus. I believe they're the new Amarr fighter bombers, used by carriers. Very cool. o.O Originally by: hired goon Holy crap! Now I remember why I was Caldari. *hired goon humps a Paradise Cruise Missile
something somethingdark	Posted - 2009.11.10 02:29:00 - [29] Much more information about Sleepers and T2 component market needed also how about a Flop 10 of ships ?
Yon Krum The Knights Templar R.A.G.E	Posted - 2009.11.10 03:12:00 - [30] Originally by: Dogsarepe Originally by: Artanato Edited by: Artanato on 09/11/2009 19:14:27 Keep the RL politics out of it please! (The prices that the laws of the market chooses is not always the price that is most fair for the average man, or the society as a whole) I don't think there is anything political there at all, really... more about economic systems and approaches. Don't want to get into a debate over idealogy here, but I think what he is suggesting is that it was seen here that if you let people work it out themselves, then economic reactions and adjustments occur quickly and stabilization is obtained, allowing growth to begin again. Where otherwise artificial maneuvering works against the people in the long term by burdening them with false premises and illogical assumptions. "Most fair" is a matter for opportunity, not outcome. Regulating outcome is impossible and inherently unfair, since people are not, in fact equal (only equal before the law). In EVE some have more time/talent/contacts to devote to the game, or are simply luckier. Market distortions in the "price the market chooses" are caused either by information asymmetries (eg. I know more than you do about the Moros, so I liquidate before the sale price crashes), functional monopolies (eg. dyspro--for a while, and only theorized to the best of my knowledge), or regulatory interference. It is this last point that we arrive at cries of "RL politics", because RL politics fall into two main camps of "regulate everything and centrally control the economy in some fashion" and "let the market work itself out". Mixtures of the two tend to create market distortions that ultimately reduce competition. For example, the upcoming Dominion taxes on 0.0 space ownership make moon ownership more critical to early alliance ability to meet bills, effectively raising a government barrier to entry into 0.0 that did not exist before. Whether the new tax (regulation) also causes some smaller 0.0 entities to retire to empire rather than shouldering the payment burden remains to be seen (we call this "going Galt" these days, btw). Oddly enough the CCP government restructuring of T2 material requirements to break up the Dyspro monopolies/bottleneck is an example of an arguably beneficent use of power in favor of the society as a whole, as it theoretically should result in lower T2 prices. In actuality, however, it will just shift the manufacturing bottleneck into another spot on the supply chain, but that may take some time to work out. On another note, I'd love to see an analysis by our resident insider economist as to the deflationary effects of Unholy Rage, combined with estimates of the money supply, velocity of circulation, and what he expects to have happen when Dominion comes out and sucks trillions from the money supply each month. Hmm? --Krum --Krum
rubico1337 Caldari Mnemonic Enterprises	Posted - 2009.11.10 05:09:00 - [31] i hope the next QEN has an in-depth analysis in the t3 market. for instance the phenomenon of the bottlenecks appearing (first NIM, now MNRs) suggests the underlying drop rates and build requirements have issues, to put it mildly
Jei'son Bladesmith The Storm Knights The Cool Kids Club	Posted - 2009.11.10 06:40:00 - [32] Edited by: Jei''son Bladesmith on 10/11/2009 06:41:22 holy crap, 18,000 banned RMT accounts and climbing, you go CCP! LONG LIVE UNHOLY RAGE!! edit: so wait, "crap" is allowed but "****pit" still gets filtered? o_O
Kanuo Ashkeron Wormhole supervisory and Investigation team Blanket Men	Posted - 2009.11.10 08:18:00 - [33] Originally by: Yon Krum On another note, I'd love to see an analysis by our resident insider economist as to the deflationary effects of Unholy Rage, combined with estimates of the money supply, velocity of circulation, and what he expects to have happen when Dominion comes out and sucks trillions from the money supply each month. Hmm? --Krum This (would also be interesting to me).
MILK Monk Knights of the Silver Dawn Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.11.10 11:08:00 - [34] Thanks for another report. Please try to use better resolution for graphs next time (actually vector graphic would be even more cool) :) __________________________________ I do it myyyy wayyyy... Milky Way.
Vyktor Abyss Gallente The Abyss Corporation	Posted - 2009.11.10 12:04:00 - [35] Congratulations Dr.Egg-Nogg, another good read thank you. Hows Iceland's economy doing by the way? Still the cheap beers?
Yarinor Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2009.11.10 12:10:00 - [36] Yay, I'm sick, guess I can print out this **** and go back to bed, just got up because I was bored.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2009.11.10 13:51:00 - [37] Over on SHC there has been some discussion about the fact that, seemingly, the data is based off a single snapshot. EyjoG, how well do you think that your current method of finding the popularity of ships works? Do you think it's representative of the actual ship usage? Would it be possible to pull the ship-data off TQ every x hours, for instance? In that case, it would be truly representative of what is being flown. Because right now, the data is seemingly not all that accurate.
ceaon Gallente	Posted - 2009.11.10 14:05:00 - [38] Originally by: LaVista Vista Over on SHC there has been some discussion about the fact that, seemingly, the data is based off a single snapshot. EyjoG, how well do you think that your current method of finding the popularity of ships works? Do you think it's representative of the actual ship usage? Would it be possible to pull the ship-data off TQ every x hours, for instance? In that case, it would be truly representative of what is being flown. Because right now, the data is seemingly not all that accurate. to do that you need a dedicated server for database queries i mean copy the back up from TQ and run on that server a server like that dedicates to queries can be over 500 000 $
Nekopyat	Posted - 2009.11.10 15:09:00 - [39] Originally by: Yon Krum It is this last point that we arrive at cries of "RL politics", because RL politics fall into two main camps of "regulate everything and centrally control the economy in some fashion" and "let the market work itself out". Mixtures of the two tend to create market distortions that ultimately reduce competition. Hrm. While I am not sure how it would apply to ideal or virtual circumstances, in real life you need mixed economies in order to keep competition from being reduced. 'Pure' free markets only work as long as companies are weak compared to the government they exist within. As companies grow stronger they take on increasingly government like behaviors. As wealth and power concentrate, they can become de-factor mini governments with 'citizen/customers' that are shared between multiple entities. They gain the ability to lock in customers and lock out competition, at which point you end up with something functionally equivalent to communism. It takes a strong government with the ability to regulate the larger companies to get competition going again. A real life example (with current debate going on) would be American Broadband providers. Broadband providers are sufficiently powerful that they have successfully prevented competition, including legal methods to stop local governments from even trying to provide similar services. Since they control the copper, they can lock out any competition they like. The resource is semi-critical to most people but competition is low (or non-existent) so customers generally have the choice between service from a local monopoly, or no service. The providers have their own internal legal system and enforcement (law and police), taxation, and diplomatic (to other broadband providers and governments) aspects.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2009.11.10 16:14:00 - [40] Originally by: ceaon to do that you need a dedicated server for database queries i mean copy the back up from TQ and run on that server a server like that dedicates to queries can be over 500 000 $ Well, the problem with pulling the data every hour is the load it will cause, if it's even possible to query each single sol node. But I'm pretty sure that they won't need a 500k server for it. CCP has a bunch of TQ-like clusters as it is. I wouldn't be surprised if one of them was dedicated to the Research and Statistics team.
ceaon Gallente	Posted - 2009.11.10 17:01:00 - [41] Originally by: LaVista Vista But I'm pretty sure that they won't need a 500k server for it. that depend on how much time u can wait, if you want to run that each hour u pretty need a dedicated server for that i bet TQ server dont have any SQL chips, running queries on huge data base like eve is not easy task
Hunter Seth	Posted - 2009.11.10 18:37:00 - [42] some very interesting numbers. One of the things I would have liked to see though is a comparison between total, active, inactive, reactivated and deleted accounts. It may give recruiting corps an idea of how many people are typically expected to join the server after patch times or advertisment drives. It may also, however, tell us how many people decide to leave the game, specifically after patch times. Maybe this type of information could be included in future QERs?
Navell Phora	Posted - 2009.11.10 23:47:00 - [43] Edited by: Navell Phora on 10/11/2009 23:50:13 It is true that totally free market will "stabilise" itself quicker than a more controlled market but at the same time the two extremes of the "stabilisation" are far further away from each other and the changes happen more often and they are more abrupt. A purely capitalistic system allows the markets to first totally overheat after which a total cooldown follows. In other words you have two seasons of mindless spending and total depression following each others. And when you only have an on/off switch for the market you will see a lot more variations and lot more of the two extremes than in a system where you can adjust the market and prevent overheating and have safe switches for cooldowns. The history proves this. Whenever a greater freedom of economy has been in power a great depresssion has soonly followed. Wars are important part of this as well. Depressions are not caused by limiting and controlling the markets but by letting the markets take its natural course without intervention. The whole idea of controlling markets with laws is not about regulation, it is about stability. Stability only comes out with regulation.
Cinori Aluben Minmatar The Salvaged	Posted - 2009.11.11 01:36:00 - [44] First off: Thank You CCP & Eyjolfur for providing the QENs. I very much appreciate these QENs, as they are the pinnacle of the thinking man's game, and give us a snapshot into the game's underbelly. However, this particular QEN is sorely disappointing, not for the analysis itself, but what the analysis reveals, and what it attempts to gloss over. The whole "application to real world free market" claim is all good and great, except that there's no way Eve could be completely considered a free market. A free market is not one in which the supply is secretly seeded in order to drive down prices (Veldspar...? - Perhaps someone could attempt to justify this very non-laissez-faire act to me [and still maintain the free-market bit]?? Esp without notifying us?). In fact, to me, this more aptly mimics real world governmental systems' more heavy-handed approach of seeding the economy (with good or bad results - you decide e.g.- Cash for Clunkers). Read an older version of Halada's mining guide. Mining used to be actually worth the time for a group who was patient, organized, and skilled. Even at the recent mineral inflation, it wasn't worth half the time it used to be, and now, after deflating substantially, it's even more worthless. The deflation that was intended to hit Tritanium has gripped the entire market. That said, why is the Hulk the most widely piloted vessel during an instanteous snapshot? Highsec mining alts that never leave their hulks, and never get their hulks destroyed less risked. It's cheap to buy a predeveloped mining alt on the char trade forums too. IMHO, couple this revelation with the devastatingly dismal proposals for 'upgrading' 0.0 space (and I'm not even in a nullsec alliance): CCP is trying hard to decrease total liquid ISK in game, and crimp the potential inflow lanes of ISK as well. Why? 1) To sell more gametime, cuz you'll have to play longer to get what you want. 2) To de-homogenize large player groups - alliances (both good and bad really - we'll see how this turns out in Dominion), 3) To sell PLEXes since they're now losing all those 18,000 paying monthly accounts (ehem ≈ $270,000/mo). 4) To drive down PLEX worth in ISK, so you have to buy&sell more of them to get your Titans (see: Russian Aluminum Tycoon dumps >$100k into PLEX/GTC to buy Titans for his corp). Eve is the best MMO on the market, hands down. CCP is a fantastic company, with exemplary goals and ideals, and an atypical hunger to please its playerbase. However, do please remember that even the best governments have highly educated, jargon-spewing propagandists.
Altaree The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.11.11 03:43:00 - [45] Could the drop in drone stuff also have been caused by the recent wars in the drone regions? Just a thought... --Altaree
Yon Krum The Knights Templar R.A.G.E	Posted - 2009.11.11 03:57:00 - [46] Originally by: Navell Phora The history proves this. Whenever a greater freedom of economy has been in power a great depresssion has soonly followed. Wars are important part of this as well. Depressions are not caused by limiting and controlling the markets but by letting the markets take its natural course without intervention. The whole idea of controlling markets with laws is not about regulation, it is about stability. Stability only comes out with regulation. Well now we really are in "RL-land". Arguably the role of government in economic affairs is to ensure that participants do not engage in behavior widely regarded as negative to the social order--namely some flavor of thievery, breach of contract, murder, or other lying. Regulation to "shape" the economy has, historically, been responsible for the cyclical "boom and bust" of depressions by creating market "bubbles" beforehand. The Great Depression is the most famous example of this, though I'm sure the recent American hardships will rival it over time, and analysis points firmly toward severe price (supply) distortions caused by US state and local government urban planning or land-use regulations. Wars are a great way to redistribute wealth rapidly, based primarily on ability rather than any concept of equity (ie. you get what you can carry back, if you win). The US did very well after WW2 because the rest of the world was flatlined. Conflicts going back further in history show similar, if more regional, patterns. He who wins gets the stuff. Ask the Georgians how they fared following 8 invasions by Timur the Lame, if you want the alternative story. Let's close this part of the discussion, in this thread, by agreeing on a simple truth: economists are much like magicians, turning staves into snakes before the king to see who's gets eaten by the other. Arguements like the above are the bread-and-butter of many a dismal scientist, and won't be solved here. --- Back to EVE. I noticed that the last chart includes some discussion of Glossy Compound prices, but the Unholy Rage details previously focus exclusively on highsec mission-runner bannings. I am sure that CCP is aware of the extensive macro-ratting use that goes on, for example, in the drone regions. Please say a bit more about what has happened there, as I suspect any actions could (and did) go a long way toward the highend mineral price increases during the quarter. --Krum --Krum
Yon Krum The Knights Templar R.A.G.E	Posted - 2009.11.11 04:04:00 - [47] Originally by: Altaree Could the drop in drone stuff also have been caused by the recent wars in the drone regions? Just a thought... The major wars in the drone regions ended in June, prior to any Q3 drops. It's possible that lagging sales of stocks may have had something to do with it, however. Eliminating ED and IRC, which were churning out massive amounts of minerals, probably helped, but don't explain all of it. A LOT of minerals were sucked up by alliance-level orders (and taxes) and turned into cap components (hint: how you make money in drone regions, btw), which were then sold for isk with the value-add bonus. But these wars did not touch the large number of renters employed by the other alliances in the DR, who's members often (but not always) exhibit behavior typical of macros. Hence, I wonder what effect Unholy Rage had on 0.0 macro-ers? --Krum --Krum
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2009.11.11 08:00:00 - [48] Originally by: Yon Krum On another note, I'd love to see an analysis by our resident insider economist as to à what he expects to have happen when Dominion comes out and sucks trillions from the money supply each month. Hmm? --Krum I think you'll be finding more money injected into the economy due to the large number of DED complexes and wormholes that will be farmed from small numbers of nullsec systems. 10 permanent DEDs in a system with a fully upgraded Entrapment beacon. That's going to bring in about 400M ISK/hr, wouldn't you say? [Aussie players: join channel ANZAC]
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2009.11.11 08:10:00 - [49] Originally by: Yon Krum Regulation to "shape" the economy has, historically, been responsible for the cyclical "boom and bust" of depressions by creating market "bubbles" beforehand. The Great Depression is the most famous example of this It is the Great Depression that led the Government to regulate the banks more tightly. It is the banks convincing the government to loosen the reins that led to the Global Economic Crisis. Ask Alan Greenspan about how much he believes in the ability of the financial industry to regulate itself now. [Aussie players: join channel ANZAC]
Jacob Holland Gallente Weyland-Vulcan Industries	Posted - 2009.11.11 13:00:00 - [50] Please, please, please, please, can we have the QEN in a format which can be printed. This, and the previous, QEN is formatted as page spreads, which is fine if you're reading it online but absolutely pointless if you're printing the thing out for perusal at leisure. Yes, the page spread means that illustrations aren't hacked about by the page boundary. But I'm more interested in the content than the pretty pictures. -- Originally by: cordy Respect to IAC .Your one of the few people who truly deserve to own and live in the space you are in.

CCP Chronotis	Posted - 2009.11.11 19:38:00 - [51] Originally by: Jason Edwards Some interesting points ive noticed. Dreads dropped nearly 25% .... The other issue I have seen. Black ops being the most unused ship. in other words... THERE ARE MORE TITANS THEN BLACK OPS! Bear in mind the data you are seeing is a snapshot of whatever ship the character was in at the time. There are many reasons why someone may not be in a dread from snapshot to snapshot and same with black ops (roles which are ad-hoc/seldom needed) or ships you cannot easily switch from such as supercapitals. The ship you currently have active is not really analogous with its use or popularity but is an approximate indicator though would be ideally combined with both numbers manufactured/total in existence/numbers traded/numbers destroyed for example.

tx eight Minmatar Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn	Posted - 2009.11.11 20:05:00 - [52] Edited by: tx eight on 11/11/2009 20:09:00 Originally by: CCP Chronotis Bear in mind the data you are seeing is a snapshot of whatever ship the character was in at the time. You people should have a data-mining guy on team, consulting, or at least make this Dr. Economist read up something on subject. If you counted characters capable of flying each respective capital ship class, then counted every cap ship of that class in posession of a corp or any of its members, then combined these two numbers, applied a completely arbitrary fudge (economics can't live without that), then we would have had numbers to discuss.
Rhaegor Stormborn H A V O C Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2009.11.14 23:57:00 - [53] CCP needs a new economist. One that plays Eve. This guy is terrible.
Lusulpher Blackwater Syndicate Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.11.15 05:27:00 - [54] Originally by: Mara Rinn Originally by: Yon Krum Regulation to "shape" the economy has, historically, been responsible for the cyclical "boom and bust" of depressions by creating market "bubbles" beforehand. The Great Depression is the most famous example of this It is the Great Depression that led the government to regulate the banks more tightly. It is the banks convincing the government to loosen the reigns that led to the Global Economic Crisis. Ask Alan Greenspan about how much he believes in the ability of the financial industry to regulate itself now. QFT. As some people don't live in the RL-Land. I went Socialist after I saw the "House-Flipping Bubble" try to take down the world. At least liquor is cheaper(in Iceland). 7
Epitrope The Citadel Manufacturing and Trade Corporation	Posted - 2009.11.15 10:47:00 - [55] So, I have a note and a question. First, on page 25 (pdf page 13), you describe the graph as green and purple. The original Unholy Rage dev blog graph is green and purple, and the graph in the QEN does look nicer, but I think you may have cleaned up the graph and overlooked the text. Secondly, are the full contents of the various indexes documented anywhere? As I understand it, they were introduced in the first QEN, and while some numbers were mentioned regarding their size, I don't think I've seen an actual list anywhere. The mineral index is pretty obvious, of course, but the others get kind of big and I'm not entirely clear on what item types fall where.
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2009.11.16 10:34:00 - [56] Tritanium? Tell us about Technetium!
Zenithil	Posted - 2009.11.17 08:04:00 - [57] Ah, so it is due to this Unholy Rage that I am now able to mine. I was wondering how come so many roids are now available in High sec. Good to know about this special development. And yes, I have been out of loop for quite some time and recently reactivated the account. On other note, QEN publishers must really love Caldari. I mean come one guys, how about a snapshot or two from other races too, eh? :)
Anneesh Rynn	Posted - 2009.11.17 20:13:00 - [58] Sorry incorrect, Unholy Rage is not the reason you are finding roids to mine it is entirely because CCP set all belts to respawn daily. I find it interesting that CCP chose to focus on the effects of Unholy Rage when clearly they didn't have much overall impact on the market, while the R64 POS Reactor issue went completely unmentioned and and had a devestating impact on T2 production and market.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Dark-Rising IT Alliance	Posted - 2009.11.20 08:18:00 - [59] Originally by: Anneesh Rynn Sorry incorrect, Unholy Rage is not the reason you are finding roids to mine it is entirely because CCP set all belts to respawn daily. I find it interesting that CCP chose to focus on the effects of Unholy Rage when clearly they didn't have much overall impact on the market, while the R64 POS Reactor issue went completely unmentioned and and had a devestating impact on T2 production and market. While the first sentence sounds correct, the second is not. CCP chose to kill RMT farmers as top focus, as they both exploit the game AND ruin its economy AND do it for RL money. RMT farmers in all the MMOs tend to exploit the easily accessed, most bottable features. The R64 cheaters, while also being exploiters had an high entry barrier, ie not every fresh RMT farmer could get his R64 moon to exploit. So, the R64 cheaters would still do a bannable offence, but their impact on the RL money farming was much smaller than those who botted roids and L4 missions. AFAIK someone calculated that with the old 4 isk pu tritanium, a botted 24/7 hulk could make half a trillion a year. Now compare how many R64 there are vs how many hulks there have been (hint: as per the QEN, hulks are the top played ship in EvE). - Auditing and consulting Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Varg Tepes Caldari	Posted - 2009.11.20 12:07:00 - [60] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha AFAIK someone calculated that with the old 4 isk pu tritanium, a botted *24/7* hulk could make half a trillion a year. Now compare how many R64 there are vs how many hulks there have been (hint: as per the QEN, hulks are the top played ship in EvE). If you can run a Hulk in EVE 24/7... Then you truly are a masterminded criminal I would REALY like to know how they can mine in a Hulk at Downtime.. Not to mention the 2 patches that CCP gives u each year.. thats like 3-4 weeks downtime (or as stated before patch, 2-3 hour, but we all now the Icelandic cant count ).
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2009.11.20 14:01:00 - [61] For the next QEN I would like to hear: - moon materials and potential bottlenecks - t3 market and fullerites/reactions - high end minerals in the light of immense big new hidden belts in upgraded 0.0 systems Also I would like to add that I would really like to see more outlooks lined out in the QEN's. Not just some snapshots and reports of what happened a couple of months ago but instead what could happen in the future. Thanks.
Mabrick	Posted - 2009.11.26 15:47:00 - [62] Edited by: Mabrick on 26/11/2009 15:47:41 "This might be a good lesson regarding our real life economies, showing that if we allow markets to adjust without intervention from governments they correct much quicker than when we try to steer prices to the "correct" level - given that the rules of the market are clear and that information flows relatively freely between agents on the market." Well, thank goodness there is no gross over leveraging of our markets here so they look to be in pretty good shape. I would be really concerned if someone started bundling asteroid futures with something like future BlackOps production and sold them to our pension funds. Then ConCord might have to start offering insurance against the failure of asteroids spontaneously appearing. Fortunately asteroid spawning is tightly controlled by the CCP regulators who actually seem to do their job and don't go easy on the belts because they want lucrative jobs working for the ORE super-roid fund. Heck, I'm down right grateful the regulators stepped in and stopped all those criminal 0-sec guys who were making a killing on the market through their nefarious backroom dealings with the equipment manufacturers supplying their star bases. I'm so glad the the CCP ruling body forced them into exile. Oh, and those robo-mining guys had it coming too. There was just no way to compete with their computer automated exploits. I don't think any amount of steering would have stopped those guys so stepping in and exiling them was the right thing to do as well. I wish someone would have done that with AIG and BoA! Now, where's the bonuses?
Scrumpy Joe	Posted - 2009.11.27 17:59:00 - [63] Edited by: Scrumpy Joe on 27/11/2009 17:59:10 I love it, I love it, I love it. This might be a good lesson regarding our real life economies, showing that if we allow markets to adjust without intervention from governments they correct much quicker than when we try to steer prices to the "correct" level. YEEEESSS. Hey you Obamabots hearing this? let the Free market work it's self out. Thank you sir, well said. Ayn Rand said it herself many years ago."every intervention from the government into the economy results in taking wealth from those that have worked for it and earned it and handing it to those who have no right to it."
Scrumpy Joe	Posted - 2009.11.27 18:04:00 - [64] Edited by: Scrumpy Joe on 27/11/2009 18:05:05 also one more thing while I'm on a rant. The above was not a troll. and I'm not sure if Mcbrick or any one else for that matter would agree but I think that all roid belts in high sec should be in missions or hidden. I think to add realism to the game the higher civilized systems should show to have been mined out generations ago.

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THERE ARE MORE TITANS THEN BLACK OPS!

THERE ARE MORE TITANS THEN BLACK OPS!

THERE ARE MORE TITANS THEN BLACK OPS!