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Using a DCU on a passive shield tank set up?

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Fearr Dorchaa	Posted - 2009.11.09 14:18:00 - [1] So I'm just wondering about the use of a DCU (or more specifically a DCU2) when you are using a passive shield tank? I fly my Minmatar PVP ships shield tanked so that I can squeeze more dps out of them like Jaguar/Sabre/Hurricane with Gyrostabs etc in the lows. A corpie was saying to me that DCU is useless on Shield tankers but I always fit one out of habit on the assumption that it boosts your shield resists aswell? My playing style is solo/small fleet roam where I engage stuff I can kill so the extra DPS just melts them and I run from stuff I know will gank/beat me so the passive tank works for me. Its usually a bubble camp with 20 HAC's that ends up getting me so its not like a couple of plates on a Cane would save me anyway when im quadruple webbed/scrammed. Any replies welcome Cheers
mxzf Minmatar Shovel Bros The Phenom Alliance	Posted - 2009.11.09 14:39:00 - [2] Yes, DCUs apply to shield, though slightly less than to armor, a DCU2 is +15% to armor and +12.5% to shield. When in doubt, either look at the stats or EFT.
Seriously Bored Minmatar	Posted - 2009.11.09 14:48:00 - [3] A DC is great on shield tanks because it's the only low slot module that affects your shield resists. On a Passive Shield setup a Shield Power Relay or Power Diagnostic Unit will give you a better tank, however. If you're talking about buffer shield tanking, a Damage Control is a better bet.
Fearr Dorchaa	Posted - 2009.11.09 14:50:00 - [4] Yeah, sorry, I know that they apply to shields aswell I was just wondering what (if anything) I was missing, I have heard this argument in the past about not using DCU if you are going for passive shield tank but have never heard a reasonable argument for why. Thanks for reply.
TimMc Gallente Brutal Deliverance Extreme Prejudice.	Posted - 2009.11.09 14:55:00 - [5] Although its more useful for armour tankers, its still very useful for shield tankers because everything tends to melt the second the shield goes away. You can definitely get away without it, but I always prefer the extra buffer in hopes that your target will die or you can escape. However if applying nanos it become more debatable, and this is alot of personal preference.
Fearr Dorchaa	Posted - 2009.11.09 15:10:00 - [6] Originally by: Seriously Bored A DC is great on shield tanks because it's the only low slot module that affects your shield resists. On a Passive Shield setup a Shield Power Relay or Power Diagnostic Unit will give you a better tank, however. If you're talking about buffer shield tanking, a Damage Control is a better bet. Well, I fly my sabre like this and I consider it a passive tank (ie no active shield mods) but maybe my understanding of the terminology is off. [150mm AC II x 6 Interdiction Sphere Launcher Web named Scram named MWD II MSE II ODI II DCU II Small EM shield resist I Small CDFE I ] Then I bring good mix of ammos Rep Fleet, Barrage, Hail depending on what im engaging and overload like a mofo. I must go back to EFT and see what named items I need in order to fit a Gyrostab on there in place of the ODI as i've been to lazy to do it yet and I don't think I'm too far off being able to.
Fearr Dorchaa	Posted - 2009.11.09 15:23:00 - [7] Originally by: TimMc Although its more useful for armour tankers, its still very useful for shield tankers because everything tends to melt the second the shield goes away. You can definitely get away without it, but I always prefer the extra buffer in hopes that your target will die or you can escape. However if applying nanos it become more debatable, and this is alot of personal preference. Yeah, this is along the lines of what im thinking, it gives just a little bit more buffer without you having to compromise much. Its easier to justify dropping a gyro or nano for a DCU than dropping a MWD or Web for a shield mod. Then again my main is Amarr so I have been schooled from day 1 in 'think tank first' i even stick a dcu and small repper on my crusaders and love the durability it gives me in small fleets or in tackling things that have a bit of bite. You're never going to survive being called primary or tackling the wrong thing but it means far less bailing out and in and relying on someone to rep you when they are in the middle of a firefight.
Elora Danzik Caldari Idiots In Spaceships Psychotic Tendencies.	Posted - 2009.11.09 15:24:00 - [8] Edited by: Elora Danzik on 09/11/2009 15:25:09 The great thing about the DCU for sheilds is that, I think, it doesn't has the stacking penalty with other shiled resists. So you get the full 12.5% resist across the board. Its not much but sometimes that is enough to last a few seconds longer then the other guy. edit: clarified what I was saying.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2009.11.09 15:30:00 - [9] Originally by: Fearr Dorchaa Yeah, sorry, I know that they apply to shields aswell I was just wondering what (if anything) I was missing, I have heard this argument in the past about not using DCU if you are going for passive shield tank but have never heard a reasonable argument for why. Thanks for reply. Because you're confusing PVE passive shield tanks with PVP buffer shield tanks. A PVE passive shield tank is focused on regen, and a SPR gives much more tank than a DC does. But on a PVP buffer shield tank (passive regen shield tanks are too slot- and cap-intensive to be viable for PVP), then no mod adds as much EHP as a DC, and the synergy of lowslot DC and medslot shield tank makes the DC more useful on shield tanks, rather than armour tanks, despite the lower resist bonuses.
Mrs Snowman	Posted - 2009.11.09 16:36:00 - [10] either way, if your pvp'ing then a DCU is always a definite! Its the only module which increases your hull resistance, and as any PVPer will tell you, battles are won and lost in hull.

Katarlia Simov Minmatar Cowboys From Hell	Posted - 2009.11.09 17:19:00 - [11] Originally by: Mrs Snowman either way, if your pvp'ing then a DCU is always a definite! Its the only module which increases your hull resistance, and as any PVPer will tell you, battles are won and lost in hull. This is the truth. For Pvp, a DCU is ALWAYS a must on everything. For PvE its more debateable, but then again the only stuff that uses true passive tanks are drakes and nighthawks, neither of which are especially awesome mission ships, and should only be flown until you got the iskies for a raven. Remember that DCUs don't stack, so if you've already chucked on a bundle of hardners, you get more extra from a DCU than another active. Also the armor and hull resist are invaluable. 60% resists across the board are not to be sniffed at. To anyone who 'doesn't get' how buffer tanks work, the point is not to survive by yourself, the point is to take long enough to die so that the rest of your boys kill the other dude, or so that someone can get some remote rep love onto you. In those kind of situations (especially as shield transfers give their loves at the beginning of the cycle) an extra 10 seconds is enough to pull back to stable shield love. Finally, a DCU doesn't use cap, and so you are guaranteed resists even if neuted to death or out of cap boosters. For all these reasons ... DCUs are AWESOME.
Elora Danzik Caldari Idiots In Spaceships Psychotic Tendencies.	Posted - 2009.11.09 18:10:00 - [12] Edited by: Elora Danzik on 09/11/2009 18:10:50 Originally by: Katarlia Simov Finally, a DCU doesn't use cap...... Technically, incorrect. They do use 1 Energy.
Jason Wyght Gallente Hoplite Brigade	Posted - 2009.11.09 18:51:00 - [13] Originally by: Elora Danzik Edited by: Elora Danzik on 09/11/2009 18:10:50 Originally by: Katarlia Simov Finally, a DCU doesn't use cap...... Technically, incorrect. They do use 1 Energy. But you can't notice it, even while being NOSed(Or maybe you can?)
AnKahn Caldari The Giant Squid Corp. Maru Ka'ge	Posted - 2009.11.09 20:25:00 - [14] A single module that add 60% resists to all four damage types that uses very little energy. As manditory as fitting a point and more manditory than fitting a speed mod. Confirmed that forgetting to fit a DCU causes gang mates to go "WTF?" when the ship pops. Then later looking at the loss mail and NOT seeing a DCU fitted you go "Oh! That explains it." PvP = DCU 99% of the time at least BC size and up. Cruiser and below is more of a debate.
Patri Andari Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer	Posted - 2009.11.09 21:04:00 - [15] Originally by: Katarlia Simov but then again the only stuff that uses true passive tanks are drakes and nighthawks, neither of which are especially awesome mission ships, and should only be flown until you got the iskies for a raven. You have never flown a passive Nighthawk it appears. This ship can be kitted with 4xBCU, 2x LSE (I use Thukker), 3x active mission specific hardeners and 2x Purgers (I use T2). With this set up, it makes a Raven look pathetic. I prefer this even to a Navy Raven. Patri Patri A fool usually thinks he is a genius
Seriously Bored Minmatar	Posted - 2009.11.09 22:18:00 - [16] Originally by: Fearr Dorchaa Well, I fly my sabre like this and I consider it a passive tank (ie no active shield mods) but maybe my understanding of the terminology is off. The fit you're using looks like a buffer shield tank, where a DC is usually the best option. For your information, Passive Shield Tanks work by amplifying the natural shield regen of a ship to the point that it performs as well or better than a shield booster, without using any cap. Buffer and Passive Shield tanks are superficially similar, but work very differently...and often both use active hardeners. Originally by: Elora Danzik The great thing about the DCU for sheilds is that, I think, it doesn't has the stacking penalty with other shiled resists. So you get the full 12.5% resist across the board. Quoted for truth. Damage Control resists do not stack with anything, which often makes it better than, say, a third Invuln.
Footoo Rama Gallente Caldari Illuminati	Posted - 2009.11.10 01:04:00 - [17] if you are flying a passive non buffer shield yank in PVE a SPR gives you more defense. In a buffer situation the dmg prevention is important and you use DCII's these are 2 completely different setups though. A passive shield tanked ship works to regen the most HP it can a second, with about 300hp/sec peak being about the best. These ships utilize the fact that ships have 2 stats, shield regen and max shields, no matter how much shield you have shield regen is the same amount of time. So ship X has a shield regen time of 60 seconds, and has 600hp in shields, you regen 10hp/sec (basically in reality it is different depending on % of shields left.) Assume you put another 600hp using extenders on the ship making 1200hp shields you now regen 20hp/sec. On a passive ship you use as many mods as you can to increase the base shields, and reduce the shield recharge time, generally at the expense of cap recharge. example that regens 296 hp a sec, invulns are the lazy way to fit it, and actually work better then 2x different rat spec hardeners. [Dominix, Passive domi] Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II 350mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L 350mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L 350mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L 350mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L 350mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L Heavy Nosferatu I Core Defence Field Purger I Core Defence Field Purger I Core Defence Field Purger I Garde I x5 Garde II x5 ------- "Because the Dominix is the Chuck Norris of Eve!"
Gibbo3771	Posted - 2009.11.10 02:54:00 - [18] For solo PvP I would always fit a DMG control especially on small ships like AF's, if you come across another AF that 60% boost to your hull HP could be the difference between you popping and you living, also it is not always possible to pick every fight, like being web/scrammed off a crusader and there is a BS gang there, your not going anywhere....lets kill that sader and die with dignity :)
Katarlia Simov Minmatar Cowboys From Hell	Posted - 2009.11.10 10:18:00 - [19] Originally by: Patri Andari Edited by: Patri Andari on 09/11/2009 21:39:16 Originally by: Katarlia Simov but then again the only stuff that uses true passive tanks are drakes and nighthawks, neither of which are especially awesome mission ships, and should only be flown until you got the iskies for a raven. You have never flown a passive Nighthawk it appears. This ship can be kitted with 4xBCU, 2x LSE (I use Thukker), 3x active mission specific hardeners and 2x Purgers (I use T2). With this set up, it makes a Raven look pathetic. I prefer this even to a Navy Raven. Its got a better tank than a vanilla raven, but the damage is suckful man. One thing more boring than spamming missiles out of a raven is spamming missiles out of a night hawk. I mean come on. Your nighthawk set-up costs about the same as a tengu. Which is better :)
Sumelar	Posted - 2009.11.10 10:54:00 - [20] Whether you're tanking shield or armor, I like to have a DCU on every ship I have just for the extra hull resists, never know what's going to happen and I like having that little extra buffer.

Illectroculus Defined	Posted - 2009.11.10 18:23:00 - [21] Edited by: Illectroculus Defined on 10/11/2009 18:24:39 Originally by: Footoo Rama example that regens 296 hp a sec, invulns are the lazy way to fit it, and actually work better then 2x different rat spec hardeners. [Dominix, Passive domi] Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II 350mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L 350mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L 350mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L 350mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L 350mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L Heavy Nosferatu I Core Defence Field Purger I Core Defence Field Purger I Core Defence Field Purger I Doesn't that run out of cap pretty darn fast? Wouldn't you be better off fitting artillery to get cap free guns? After you're finished missioning in that be sure to offline all the SPRs so that you can warp back home without having to stop to recharge repeatedly.
Noskill McCheese Minmatar	Posted - 2009.11.10 19:25:00 - [22] I've seen plenty of fights come down to who has a damage control fitted.


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