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Next patch: Skill evolution for new players.

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Rellik B00n Lethal Death Squad	Posted - 2009.11.10 00:57:00 - [1] * Hacking will now have the following prerequisites: Science level 3 (from level 5), Electronics Upgrades level 2( from level 5), Electronics level 1 (from level 2) and Engineering level 1 ( from level 2) * Archaeology will now have the following prerequisites Science lev 3( from level 5), Survey level 3 (from level 5) and Electronics level 1 * Salvaging will now have the following prerequisites Mechanic level 3, Survey at level 3 and Engineering level 1 * Cloaking has the following prerequisites Electronics lev 4 ( was 5) * High Speed Maneuvering will now have Navigation at level 3 and Afterburner at level 3 as its prerequisites (instead of all at level 4) * Tactical Shield Manipulation has Engineering at level 3 as its prerequisites(instead of level 4) * Trajectory Analysis has Gunnery at level 4 as a prerequisite (instead of 5) * Bomb Deployment has Missile Bombardment at level 4 as a prerequisite (instead of level 5) * Mining Upgrades now has Mining at level 3 as a prerequisite (instead of 4) * Thermodynamics has Engineering at level 5, Energy Management at level 3(instead of 5) and Science at level 4 next time a new player *****es about never being able to catch up direct them to this thread! what do you think about "dumbing down" skills like this? Good or bad? + LDSkill+LDSblog
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.11.10 01:04:00 - [2] i dont like it :( ive worked my ass of to get my skills, now some ******ed carebear can get it for under 9000....
Nexus Wolfguard	Posted - 2009.11.10 01:19:00 - [3] Can someone verify this or direct me to the source?
Rellik B00n Lethal Death Squad	Posted - 2009.11.10 01:20:00 - [4] Edited by: Rellik B00n on 10/11/2009 01:20:51 I think i quite like the fact that CCP steadily lower the reqs for skills so that newer players can catch up. I think they should consider a tiered system though so that you might get 10 skills like the ones listed that are accessible for new players, then 5 more that lose one of the level Vs needed thus allowing a player of a few years to suddenly find he can train a skill that he otherwise wouldnt have because of the large pre-req. edit: source patch notes + LDSkill+LDSblog
Joe Starbreaker The Fighting Republicans	Posted - 2009.11.10 01:25:00 - [5] Edited by: Joe Starbreaker on 10/11/2009 01:25:23 I'm okay with them lowering the requirements for hacking and archaeology, which I always thought were too high anyway. Cloaking, though, WTF? Cloaking is the primary motivator that forces new players to train Electronics V. I think it's absurd that you'll be able to fly a Covert Ops frigate with the Covert Ops cloak now without having Electronics V. Using T2 ships as a "carrot" to make people train their fitting skills is a common theme in EVE's game design, and just from a roleplaying standpoint, you should be a master at electronics in order to do covert ops stuff. As for lowering the bar to thermodynamics, I shake my fist at thee, devs! I remember grinding my teeth for months to get that. Fie! ... The Fighting Republicans now recruiting for a 2010 comeback campaign!
Sumelar	Posted - 2009.11.10 01:40:00 - [6] Originally by: Ji Sama i dont like it :( ive worked my ass of to get my skills, now some ******ed carebear can get it for under 9000.... Yeah it sucks that this patch makes you not have them anymore, right? Oh wait, you still have good skills to draw on, and this patch doesn't affect anyone who already has stuff trained in the slightest.
James Tritanius	Posted - 2009.11.10 01:42:00 - [7] Originally by: Joe Starbreaker Edited by: Joe Starbreaker on 10/11/2009 01:25:23 Cloaking, though, WTF? Cloaking is the primary motivator that forces new players to train Electronics V. I think it's absurd that you'll be able to fly a Covert Ops frigate with the Covert Ops cloak now without having Electronics V. Using T2 ships as a "carrot" to make people train their fitting skills is a common theme in EVE's game design, and just from a roleplaying standpoint, you should be a master at electronics in order to do covert ops stuff. You are right. In my opinion Covops should have Electronics V (very useful) as prerequisite instead of Electronic Upgrades V (useless). Originally by: Joe Starbreaker As for lowering the bar to thermodynamics, I shake my fist at thee, devs! I remember grinding my teeth for months to get that. Fie! How high are your learning skills?
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.11.10 01:42:00 - [8] All the players who have Survey V unite. 5% reduction in duration per level on modules that have a maximum of 5 second duration to start with. Tech two is lower. **ing useless skill. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008 Originally by:** CCP Fallout :facepalm:
Zaknussem Intrum Industria	Posted - 2009.11.10 01:49:00 - [9] The only problem I have with any of these changes is that now training Survey above III is a complete waste of time. No real benefit from it. All the other changes are either negligible or really good.
ICBMSZ	Posted - 2009.11.10 01:53:00 - [10] Originally by: Ji Sama i dont like it :( ive worked my ass of to get my skills, now some ******ed carebear can get it for under 9000.... Agreed.
Kathryn Dougans Amarr Imperial Crusade Syndicate	Posted - 2009.11.10 01:54:00 - [11] I can only guess that hacking and archaeology are reduced because dominion makes those more important for fully using the 0.0 space, so more people will need them. A few odd things though. Hacking doesn't need electronics upgrades V, but the Covert Ops skill does. So lowsec exploration isn't going to be overrun by a wave of new covert ops probers. Mining upgrades needs Mining III, but strip miners and barges still need mining IV, and is it really worthwhile to fit a mining upgrade on anything other than a barge? Survey V is a fairly useless skill to have now Being a single mother is quite hard.
Cadde Gallente 221st Century Warfare	Posted - 2009.11.10 01:54:00 - [12] I guess CCP got tired of having specialized characters for each profession and decided to turn it into one profession. Spaceship pilot! Some of the previous requirements where on skills that really didn't add much to the effectiveness of the pilot other than being able to train the next step. The only reason i trained those to level 5 was to be able to use/train those special modules/skills that actually gave me something in return. Now that i have those skills at level 5 i gain very little from them and i never really had to train them anyways because of this change. Right before i knew apocrypha was going to change the scanning mechanic i trained to be able to use deep space probes, the funny thing is nowadays i NEVER use deep space probes because the core/combat probes are sufficient enough for what i need them to do. Which is find if a signature or ship is in the system! It's faster for me to put out two or three 32 au core probes to find out if there is a signature than it is to constantly change between core and deep space probes. That is also a frigging useless skill i have trained to level 5... But after all this, i can say i am not bitter. Sure i wasted my time and all that but i will just have to learn to live with the fact CCP rarely know jack about what they are doing. I just go "Meh" vOv My opinions belong to me, you can't have them!
Breaker77 Gallente	Posted - 2009.11.10 01:55:00 - [13] Originally by: Sumelar Yeah it sucks that this patch makes you not have them anymore, right?] Quote: Skill at installing Electronic upgrades, e.g. signal amplifier, Co-Processors and backup sensor array. 5% reduction of sensor upgrade CPU needs per skill level. Yes because electronics upgrades does a lot of good if you never fit a ship or undock. This is what makes it so bad for T2 inventors. 12 days of training on 9 characters is a lot of wasted time. I would love to see the reaction if they changed the prereqs for Titan to frigate 1 and spaceship command 1, but hey you still would have battleship 5
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.11.10 02:01:00 - [14] Originally by: Joe Starbreaker Cloaking, though, WTF? Cloaking is the primary motivator that forces new players to train Electronics V. I think it's absurd that you'll be able to fly a Covert Ops frigate with the Covert Ops cloak now without having Electronics V. Using T2 ships as a "carrot" to make people train their fitting skills is a common theme in EVE's game design, and just from a roleplaying standpoint, you should be a master at electronics in order to do covert ops stuff. Try to get a usable cov op build to fit with electronics 4.
Kathryn Dougans Amarr Imperial Crusade Syndicate	Posted - 2009.11.10 02:02:00 - [15] Originally by: Breaker77 Originally by: Sumelar Yeah it sucks that this patch makes you not have them anymore, right?] Quote: Skill at installing Electronic upgrades, e.g. signal amplifier, Co-Processors and backup sensor array. 5% reduction of sensor upgrade CPU needs per skill level. Yes because electronics upgrades does a lot of good if you never fit a ship or undock. This is what makes it so bad for T2 inventors. 12 days of training on 9 characters is a lot of wasted time. I would love to see the reaction if they changed the prereqs for Titan to frigate 1 and spaceship command 1, but hey you still would have battleship 5 You have 9 characters that just do invention? Being a single mother is quite hard.
Zartanic Red Federation	Posted - 2009.11.10 02:08:00 - [16] Well I think its to allow CCP to include this skills in the game and add variety rather than let new players catch up. This is apparent already from some of the level 4 epic missions. I wouldn't mind but survey V was a completely useless skill. I wish they would have thought a bit more about these skills in the first place. CCP also want Tech 2 to be more common I think, maybe having the new Tech 3 ships the specialised ones. I don't see it as dumbing down the game but as expanding it.
Mutnin Veto. Academy	Posted - 2009.11.10 02:16:00 - [17] What difference does it make, so some us of trained things high than a noob has to. Well guess what you still get added benefit for those higher skills on pretty much everything listed.
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.11.10 02:21:00 - [18] Edited by: Blane Xero on 10/11/2009 02:21:55 Originally by: Mutnin What difference does it make, so some us of trained things high than a noob has to. Well guess what you still get added benefit for those higher skills on pretty much everything listed. Step 1. Look at the bonus on the survey skill. Step 2. Look at all modules it affects. Step 3. Realise that a 5% activation rate bonus over level four of the skill on modules with between 1.5 and 4 seconds (4 seconds being the blanket T1 module. T2 is even lower) is making no real difference. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008 Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm:
Arakash Mond Amarr Kings In The Back Row	Posted - 2009.11.10 02:25:00 - [19] Originally by: Sumelar Originally by: Ji Sama i dont like it :( ive worked my ass of to get my skills, now some ******ed carebear can get it for under 9000.... Yeah it sucks that this patch makes you not have them anymore, right? Oh wait, you still have good skills to draw on, and this patch doesn't affect anyone who already has stuff trained in the slightest. This is the standard and oft repeated argument used for the last ten years whenever a mmorpg begins to dumb down (make more accessable/easier... whatever)its game play. It is a good argument because it is true but it fails to acknowledge that whenever these types of changes are made it changes the fundamental nature of the game itself. There is quite a bit of mmorpg history to back this up beginning with the first Everquest. I suppose it's inevitable. But what I find most interesting is that though the mmorpg may continue to live on and even grow the original type of players who came to the game for its original challenge etc. tend to begin to exodus to some other land and for some reason when this happens the game itself begins to wither. Arakash Low-Sec Miner
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.11.10 02:44:00 - [20] Originally by: Blane Xero Edited by: Blane Xero on 10/11/2009 02:21:55 Originally by: Mutnin What difference does it make, so some us of trained things high than a noob has to. Well guess what you still get added benefit for those higher skills on pretty much everything listed. Step 1. Look at the bonus on the survey skill. Step 2. Look at all modules it affects. Step 3. Realise that a 5% activation rate bonus over level four of the skill on modules with between 1.5 and 4 seconds (4 seconds being the blanket T1 module. T2 is even lower) is making no real difference. My solution would be to buff the t2 modules bonus so it is worth training survey 5. That way us old timers have a reason to crow and newbs have a long term goal to chase.
Gruxella Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2009.11.10 03:12:00 - [21] First off: <3 Rellik /me waves I like/hate it. I like it because that means this new kid wont have the same ability I was forced to get - so i've got an edge on him. Things like gunnery 5... electronics 5.. etc. So, like learning skills i'll have an extra 2% here and there that - they won't. However I always dislike it when people get new toys that i didn't get to play with! Bitter old me.... Mostly wanted to say hi to rellik! ---- VHI - We Haul Your Cargo For Free ---- We Miss you Red 7.
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2009.11.10 03:16:00 - [22] *Scrapmetal Processing no longer requires Metallurgy Oh wait I was just dreaming. I refuse to train that useless prereq But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
Zenst North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.11.10 03:17:00 - [23] Originally by: Rellik B00n * <LOTS OF SKILLS CCP DUMBING DOWN SNIP> next time a new player *****es about never being able to catch up direct them to this thread! what do you think about "dumbing down" skills like this? Good or bad? I think its fine if they added more at the other end of the scale for specialisation, but thats not the case :(. Most people been waiting over 4 years for T3 modules. As such any definition of specilisation has been totaly and utterly watered down to being about a month away in any direction. If they had advanced advanced gunnery and other high end high spec skils were say doing the l5 on some rank 22 skill woudl take a year - then that would be specilisation, but its not. The focus over the years has been towards basicly making sure everybody has the same sized hearts on there fury chests and its kinda sad in many many ways. The older the customer the more alianeted they have become due to actions like this. I never did specilise in probe scanning or hacking and had I done so I'd be feeling roaly cheated about now. But its nothing new, They dumbed down 1600 plate requrements many years ago and whislt we have had some new skills given they take more away with the other hand. I think the only area which has gotten any love over the years and not been dumbed down is science related stuff. But hey there dumbing down R64's as there deemed passive isk and they dont want that, O'realy what the heck are datacores if not the biggest form of passive isk. So yeah there dumbing it down alright and the level of dumbness is getting larger and larger, but hey I knew that when replies from GM's had less IQ quota than ordering a Happy Meal. But for new people it will be fun, just shame they will have the attention span of a spineless lactating goldfish floating in custard. But let CCP dream.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.11.10 03:37:00 - [24] I feel like we just had a 7 page thread on that OH WAI! http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1199092
defiler Mad Hermit Wayward Alliance	Posted - 2009.11.10 03:42:00 - [25] Originally by: Zenst a spineless lactating goldfish floating in custard. I find your ideas intriguing and would like to subscribe to your newsletter. Minding our own business since 2004
Mr M Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.11.10 03:46:00 - [26] I don't really care. But it's kind of fun to flip on your ear with a finger. Eve Tribune\|EVEgeek\|Firebrand Radio
RabbidFerret The Scope	Posted - 2009.11.10 04:07:00 - [27] Originally by: Mr M I don't really care. But it's kind of fun to flip on your ear with a finger. You'll give yourself coli flower ear and then die of a totally unassociated flesh eating disease, so just be careful.
Per Ole The Perfect Storm Gentlemen's Club	Posted - 2009.11.10 04:32:00 - [28] I like the archaeology one, been waiting for that for a while. However, I think if they made the reqs for these skills reduced to lvl 4 (instead of level 3) that would be fine. Level four takes about a day, unlike lvl 3 which only takes a few hours -------------------------------- Screw you guys, I'm going home

CCP Applebabe	Posted - 2009.11.10 05:22:00 - [29] Please keep the discussion here . Applebabe Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact us


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