Originally by: CCP Nozh

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Hey,

The changes on Singularity now, are intentional. The drone control units are however broken at the moment, and are being fixed.

New stats for "Compact Citadel Torpedoes" (launched by fighter bombers):

Explosion Radius: 3500
Explosion Velocity: 45
Damage Reduction Factor: 6.5 (magic number)
Damage: 3600


Super carrier build cost, reduced by 40%. Estimated build cost around 5-6bn.

What we want to create is an anti-capital ship/role, which is more effective than dreadnaughts against moving targets. They can currently reach 7200 DPS (9000 DPS on the Nyx), provided they are fitted for damage and are being supported by fellow pilots. To put this into perspective, the old motherships used to deal 2000 DPS, 2500 DPS (3125 DPS on the Nyx) with drone control units, additionally they've received a huge hit-point boost. The main advantages everyone seems to be overlooking is that Super carriers don't need to commit to a battle like Dreadnaughts nor do they have to be stationary while dealing damage, and of course the fact that they're immune to Electronic Warfare.

By fitting drone control units, pilots are increasing their damage potential greatly while sacrificing survivability. It becomes a hard choice, but being capital ships, they should reach their maximum potential when working together as a team.

There is currently a devblog in the making which should clarify the big picture a bit.


-Nozh

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Originally by: Jamyl TashMurkon

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I too, whine about yet unannounced changes on the TEST server.

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Originally by: CCP Nozh

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Hey,

We've made some further changes to super carriers after taking your feedback into consideration. It's quite understandable that the changes made were a disappointment to many of you, but I wanted to remind you that Singularity is a test server and all changes, even these are subject to change.

Compact Citadel Torpedo Changes:

• Explosion Velocity: 60


• Damage: 3200

Super Carrier Changes:

• Can deploy 2 additional Fighter or Drone per level


• Can dock at stations

Furthermore we're looking into solutions to reimburse current mothership pilots for the drop in construction cost.

That's all for now.

-Nozh

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Originally by: Karlemgne

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Originally by: fairimear

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Originally by: Lord Power

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Ok this can be solved if ccp is willing to listen.

1. Super Carriers only allowed to dock in 0.0 space with station upgrade inplace.
2. Super Carriers cannot dock in anything other than 0.0
3. Super Carriers be allowed to fit Jump Portal Generators like the titan, for bridging. That would make something about the name go along with "SUPER"
4. For reimbursement. Make those ships Pre dominion Insurable in stations, for say X-amount 15bil or something, that way when they die, money rembursed minus mods.
5. 5 minute agression timer in 0.0 to avoide station dock/undock games just like the titan cool down timer...

That said alot of supercarrier problems solved.

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Wrong. this will still lead to the problem of 20-30 just undocking defending a station and then redocking.
no one will take station in 0.0 it will be a disaster.
besides we dnt want to dock. we want our expensive but semi usefull dread killer.

The reason half say it wnt be used and the other half say they will be every where is cus this is one of those changes that is so imbalanced and wrong that it litteraly is going to go 1 of those 2 ways.
the first nerf before we got the docking and increase to 15 fb. That nerf would of lead to NO one using them.
The nerf of docking i lead to a abuse of their hp.


Now if he removes the hp they will once again be useless as no one will use a ship that can still get ganked on station by 20 dreads and costs 6-10 bill.
And they wnt be used on the field cus they will be as bad as they are now. - some firepower.

the only real soloution is the original one. expensive ship. can't dock. can kill dreads but wnt survive without fleet backup.

THE reason i think he has done this is because they assume there is a chance that 2030 of these could show up and start raping fields of ships.
IF it was lag from drones it was a simple matter of lowering the number and making up the dps with less.


The fix to the problem of 20+ attacking is:
A. probably not a issue cus once 1-10 fights happen where 30 turn up then 40 counter them. It just will balance out with less of them cus they get killed by each other. or they wnt be fielded without backup. This will mean super caps will be fighting each other probably. support will be ducking it out around them.

B. The real issue is having more than say 10 super dps ships shooting 1 target any way..
Its boring when 40 dreads shoot 1 dread.
It's boring when 40 supercarriers shoot 1 dread.
Its still boring when 40 super carriers shoot 1 super carrier.

The problem is people primarying 1 target. its across the board.
If you want more sandbox tactics and a eliment of planning a fight ranges ect. YOU MUST LIMIT THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE WHO CAN SHOOT THE SAME THING

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This game, motherships, and the future of both do not just belong to those who already own/pilot these ships.

I agree that there is a need for a total rebalance of the ships, we should allow them to dock, and take away their exclusive status.

You want a big epeen to wave around, go build a Titan. Whatever you do stop talking like you, and only you, have the right to proclaim what "we" want because you already pilot one of these ships.

Its past time to nerf the ships, and bring them in line with other capitals. Though I agree with what others are saying. 30 minute dock and undock counters would be a good start.


-Karlemgne

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Originally by: Phoenix vajaa

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Edited by: Phoenix vajaa on 14/11/2009 16:37:49

41 pages.
35 of them agaisnt any change besides abathur stats.
5 against Docking/6bill cost. And still not happy with 15 drones really.

1 page of people happy they can afford a ship they have not earned and dnt care if the stats are broken and will cause massive game imbalances./ People happy to **** off vetterans.

NO PAGES OF EXPLINATION FROM CCP.
NO POST WITH EXPLINATION FROM CCP.

2 POSTS FROM CCP THAT HAVE CAUSED A PROBLEM THAT WAS NOT NEEDED.

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Originally by: The Nastrond

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Originally by: Ryan Powers

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2 POSTS FROM CCP THAT HAVE CAUSED A PROBLEM THAT WAS NOT NEEDED.[/b]

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Or perhaps they figured out that ewar immune, 30m+ EHP, 12,000+ DPS ships were monstrously unbalanced (since their usage would skyrocket, 15-20b is easily affordable nowadays) and they decided to make them more reasonable.

Can you honestly say that the old sisi supercarrier changes wouldn't cause problems down the line? Unlike the titan AoE DDD, they stopped this one before it became problematic.

If the costs are being reduced, to stop the proliferation of large masses of supercarriers, insurance payouts should be removed completely on ships of this size class as well. Otherwise you'll see them being thrown about like today's carriers/dreads.

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Originally by: Max Teranous

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Free Abathur !

Max

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Originally by: Scatim Helicon

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Originally by: Grimpak

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my take on this is that Abathur and all his team went to christmas vacations and left Nozh drunk and high at the wheel.

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fixin' this here post

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Originally by: Jason Edwards

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Ok so here's what I'm seeing

Sov 4 breaks

The mom cost is cheap BUT still is 4 weeks before skills and such.

Mom has ewar immunity... even though that means practically nothing.
Mom gets ehp boost.

Mom loses 5 drones and gets the ability to dock.


From what I am seeing. They have balanced it such that every existing supercarrier pilot now hates ccp to the point of self destructing their ships meanwhile every pirate suddenly has a wet dream and the game approaches NGE status.

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Originally by: Ka'lorn Font'a

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Edited by: Ka''lorn Font''a on 14/11/2009 20:58:44
Why change what isn't broken?

Abathur's proposed, and tested changes were fine. If there are concerns with Fighter damage being too excessive, then reduce the damage that those 20 fighters would do to the level of what 15 fighters do.

There's no need to screw over the fact that Motherships can deploy 20 fighters/drones (fighters are fine, drones are fine, neither were ever considered overpowered).

By allowing Motherships to dock, you are opening a huge can of worms which, to be frank - should have been thrown out the design meeting the second it was raised.

Nor should the price be changed, there's 400+ Motherships around EVE as it is currently (probably closer to 1000, including alts/in production), you don't want 5000+ of them running around (which is what will happen, if the proposed cost reductions are implemented). If you can't see much of a bad idea injecting trillions of ISK into the economy is (10b x current number of mothership pilots), then I wonder what exactly you've been smoking in the office as of late.

I actually feel sorry for Sel/Abathur, as he has expertise in this area that - I'm willing to bet, would blow the combined experience of the rest of the development team out of the water.

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Originally by: Minmatar citizen4561451

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Originally by: The Internets

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Originally by: RoCkEt X

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Originally by: Digital Gaidin

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Dreadnoughts do a *ridiculous* amount of DPS to caps and that's in the ballpark of 3000ish DPS.

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lol. if you fit properly, its nearer 5k, after patch it'll be 6+, moms wont be able to do that. go figure.

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Err, with 15 FBs it's almost 10000 DPS from a Nyx against capitals. Slaughters anything that isn't ewar immune (it's reasonable to expect a target painter or two in a gang; you're not flying these ships solo right?).

Guess what, Moms do 2000 DPS (2500 Nyx) right now, max.

10000 > 2500, right?

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simple math escapes these whiny idiots. They cant see through their blood-soaked eyes and see that the Moms are gunna be better not worse.

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Originally by: The Kan

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Originally by: Jordan Musgrat

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If you're intent on allowing supercarriers to dock, at least don't let them rep up in stations, at all. Give us some RP reason like "this station is not equipped to handle the restructuring needs of such a large and complex ship." That will mitigate station docking games alot.

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no. no docking at all. period.

15b++ cost
3 drones/fighter per level
no docking

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