Originally by: Pedron Niaal

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they think that with the new sov changes, close range dreads for TCU killin ops will be used. That might be possible of you control the whole system anyways. but the technique of dread warfare at the moment is range > closerange as always.

a naglfar with citadel torps and ACs, can dish out lots of damage. but you can totally forget it compared to a Revelation with its possibility to do close AND long range dps. aswell as dread battle range from about 50km.

The Artilleries so lack 2.5% of dmg and 7.5% of rof, thats hilarious... compared to what it was. EVEN with the other guns adjusted.

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Originally by: Random Womble

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Originally by: Seishi Maru

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Edited by: Seishi Maru on 15/11/2009 16:12:22

Originally by: Random Womble

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A 10% damage boost on 70% of the base damage of the ship is a7% damage boost. Tha we got form EMP.. doe snto compensate the HUGE nerf at all fromt he bonuses.

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I think you missed the point of my post i think current nerf is silly and it would be more sensible instead to keep it 2 projectile bonuses and just change the projectile damage bonus from 7.5% to 5% with Lv4 dread effective DPS multiplier from bonuses (and projectile damage change) for projectile guns would look roughly like this:
Nag 1 year ago - 1.43x
Nag on TQ now - 1.86x
Nag on SiSi with 9.1% EMP boost - 1.309x
Nag I proposed above (7.5% projectile ROF, 5% Projectile Damage bonus) with 9.1% EMP boost - 1.87x (so a very very slight increase for Lv4 over current TQ nag slight decrease for Lv5, Lv5 curently on TQ is x2.2 with this change would be x2.182 but again roughly equal)

Now that admittedly is only the damage modifier for projectile damage so that ignores that the missile damage is buffed on Nag 1 year ago and Nag on SiSi (not including the actual torp DPS boost which would be irrelevant if using citadel cruise) however bonusing both projectiles and missiles also means reverting back to needing both types of damage mods which is not good.

I also had forgotten that blaster and railgun DPS is being boosted so infact the gap would be even larger between nag fitted with hybrids over nag fitted with projectiles than I was thinking.

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Originally by: Seriously Bored

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Originally by: HeliosGal

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its as it is we adapt or die

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It is a horrible design mistake that took forever to fix in the first place. The Nag needs it's double turret bonuses back. Just tweak them to the appropriate level.

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Originally by: Grimpak

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Originally by: Elaron

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I've submitted bug report ID #86867 with the following text:

Quote:

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Only a few months ago, the Naglfar was changed by CCP Chronotis to be focused more on projectile damage than relying on split weapon bonuses. See thread http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1061225, specifically post 498 on page 17 which details the changes that made it to Tranquility.

This came about after a very long period of player lobbying with proof that the Naglfar was substantially subpar compared to the other dreadnoughts. This lobbying effort even involved the CSM, and the improvement to the ship has been touted since as one of the things the CSM has achieved.

The current change on SiSi back to split weapon bonuses undoes a significant portion of the improvement. The Naglfar is already the most training-intensive dreadnought to pilot (requiring two - soon three - capital weapon systems trained as well as, for maximum fitting flexibility, both capital tanking methods); to hamper it with what will effectively be only one weapon bonus (it is mathematically demonstrable that two split weapon bonuses are equivalent to one weapon bonus on more focused ships) feels unjust and poorly thought out. On top of it, fitting it will be more problematic as the requirement to fit double the number of weapon modules in order to get the same increase in damage means less slots available for tanking.

Please revisit the Naglfar changes before Dominion and I implore you to revert the ship back to focused weapon bonuses, with citadel missiles being a supplement to DPS, not a major component. The current change on SiSi is desperately unfair to a ship that has only just been changed to let it be competitive for the first time. If you feel that the Tranquility bonuses of 7.5% each overdo it for the ship, then by all means reduce them, but please keep the projectile focus that the players and the CSM lobbied so hard for.

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Looking forward to seeing what the response is.

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Originally by: CCP Nohz's new blahg

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Due to the changes made to XL Turrets, Citadel Missiles/Torpedoes and projectile turrets, the Naglfar became an absolute monster, not in a good way. The weapon bonuses on the Naglfar had to be adjusted to keep the balance intact.

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yeah sure lol....

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Originally by: Seriously Bored

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Originally by: Ernst Ra'Kun

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Are the new proposed XL projectile changes that good that the nag needs this severe a nerf?

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I've been doing the math...they might be. At least to justify a large reduction in the bonuses. I think making it split weapon again is the most severe part of the nerf, however.

But I guess I'm going to have to take a closer look at the missile changes and what it does to final real DPS before complaining further.

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Originally by: Seishi Maru

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Originally by: Merfio

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stufff too piramidic to quote

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nope.. You are simply unable to grasp what he is saying. His sentence might be a tad too complex for the average forum warrior but he presented a composite statement instead of a pair of independent statements. He is attacking CCP nohz line of tought, that started with a presumption based of thin air and ended in a solution based on an impossible game mechanic, not the condition of capital range itself. CCp simply failed even to understand why people fit long range guns! Its not because fights never happen close. Its because its too risky to get coutner dropped or simply bumped outside range of your guns and then stay 10 minutes.. waiting as a fat duck target unable to do anything!


Capital fights happen in short range.. but short range is far far LONGER range than 36 km. Long range is 200 km. anything around 50-70 km is still short range for dreadnaught fights.

Its a simple known fact for dreadnaught pilots that when a fleet jump anywhere a crapload of dreads will bump, and the average dread bump moves it way out of new torpedo ranges. And even if by miracle you end up inside range they do less than HALF damage to their main targets.

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