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Frederick Sanger
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
133
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 03:30:00 -
[31] - Quote
Mining frigate looks cool. |

Maddy Joringer
United Society of Xziles The Skeleton Crew
10
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 03:35:00 -
[32] - Quote
EPIC win by CCP ... Its natural change large amount of hulks and mining barges being killed would make spaceships to have structural changes to their ships ..
This made my day completely.. CCP.. you have given us a fighing chance,, now am gonna shutup since i got what i wanted... |

MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
398
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 03:37:00 -
[33] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Quote:Barge in on me
Changing the mining frigates to have combat roles made us realize that we need something to replace them. Which lead us to realize how outdated mining barges are. ThatGÇÖs something we want to tackle over the course of the summer as well. Our goal is simple: each and every single mining barge (and their tech 2 variant) should have an appealing role, and not just be a stepping stone on the way to something better. Players should'nt only aim for the Hulk without considering anything else when doing some hard rock and roll mining. That means playing with the following variables:
Mining output: first and most visible balancing factor, plan is to increase all barge mining output to be within an acceptable margin of the Hulk, not miles behind as it is currently. Autonomy: mining barges should have proper cargo holds so they not always have to rely on jet cans (without turning them into industrials however). That means giving them large, specialized ore bays where all the ore will automatically go into when mining. Resilience: another point is to give some of them proper EHP not to be one-shot by anything that even remotely sneezes on them.
As a result we thus get:
New ORE frig: we want this ship to replace current mining frigates as low barrier of entry vessel, but also fulfill high-end gameplay expectations by providing a very mobile platform for mining in hostile space. Lowest mining output, decent ore bay, little to no resilience. Procurer/Skiff: primarily made for self-defense. Better mining rate than the ORE frig, good ore bay, but capable of having battleship-like EHP. Retriever/Mackinaw: made for self-reliance. Has the largest ore bay, similear to the size of a jet can, second best mining output but less EHP than the procurer mining barge. Covetor/hulk: ore bay is identical to its current cargo hold, little to average EHP, but best mining output. Basically made for group operations when players have industrials and protection to back them up. Now please kindly shut the hell up. Oh and I'm gonna go ahead and spoil it for you, Battleship HP will help, but all the HP in world wont stop people from nuking you, but at least this change may push the threshold too high for people to want to gank solo miners. The trade off for your safety will be that you must give up some of your yield and hold to gain this advantage.
bs ehp is over 100k so depending on the cost but i dont think its worth 10 nadoes
PLEX FOR PIZZA!
tech III industrial ships! |

Xython
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
917
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 05:47:00 -
[34] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Quote: New ORE frig: we want this ship to replace current mining frigates as low barrier of entry vessel, but also fulfill high-end gameplay expectations by providing a very mobile platform for mining in hostile space. Lowest mining output, decent ore bay, little to no resilience. Procurer/Skiff: primarily made for self-defense. Better mining rate than the ORE frig, good ore bay, but capable of having battleship-like EHP. Retriever/Mackinaw: made for self-reliance. Has the largest ore bay, similear to the size of a jet can, second best mining output but less EHP than the procurer mining barge. Covetor/hulk: ore bay is identical to its current cargo hold, little to average EHP, but best mining output. Basically made for group operations when players have industrials and protection to back them up.
Now please kindly shut the hell up. Oh and I'm gonna go ahead and spoil it for you, Battleship HP will help, but all the HP in world wont stop people from nuking you, but at least this change may push the threshold too high for people to want to gank solo miners. The trade off for your safety will be that you must give up some of your yield and hold to gain this advantage.
Ah, but my friend, they won't. They don't want to, they want the game to be changed so they can continue being foolish. This won't change anything, they'll still get in their hulks, they'll still paper fit them so that they're max possible yield, and they'll still go abloobloobloo when someone ganks them. Because "Skiff output sucks" and "only a noob wouldn't use a hulk and 23 bot accounts."
And of course, the Skiff will be buffed, over and over again, over the upcoming years, just to shut the rock junkies up.
I do like that CCP has flat out said right up there (I went ahead and bolded it) that the Covetor / Hulk are not meant for solo miners, though. Unfortunately, the only thing harder than space rocks is Highsec Bot Miner skulls. |

Xython
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
917
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 05:48:00 -
[35] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote:Fabulousli Obvious wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:The trade off for your safety will be that you must give up some of your yield  and hold to gain this advantage. Hooo boy. Wiping away those laughter tears. Taking off 2 strippers to leave the ONE that the silly ship even holds.............yessir, that is only SOME yield I guess. OMG forbid they ever nerf your PI tax rates by 66%. We will never hear the end of it. Or give up 66% yield of your OTECMoons. There we go. I have to fit a tank to my ratting ship. You have to fit a tank to your mining ship. Also PI is glutted right now and the prices have been consistently dropping on individual income for it for a while, so you are talking out your ass. As far as tech goes: You could easily cut 66% of our income by coming and taking away our tech. Just like I'm taking away 50% of your income by shooting you unless you fly something else. You don't get to lived in a closed system while the rest of us have to face the consequences of other players actually existing. I'm sorry you think that it should be the case: but it never will.
This is me, not empty quoting. Instead, I am slowly clapping. Good show, sir!
|

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1036
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 05:53:00 -
[36] - Quote
Quote:Procurer/Skiff: primarily made for self-defense. Better mining rate than the ORE frig, good ore bay, but capable of having battleship-like EHP. Oh boy, the next time people get popped in hulks we can tell them "use a Skiff - it's yield is still better than a FRIGATE :) " Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd |

Ocih
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
221
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 06:07:00 -
[37] - Quote
It's CCP. You really think there won't be sand in the Vaseline? You must be new here. |

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1036
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 06:10:00 -
[38] - Quote
Ocih wrote:It's CCP. You really think there won't be sand in the Vaseline? You must be new here. I... I never thought of it that way.
Hope there won't be too many people using that Vaseline then... Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd |

Zoe Athame
Fweddit
65
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 06:12:00 -
[39] - Quote
in before miners keep losing hulks and whining that they can't have the best tank AND the best efficiency |

Ned Black
Driders
40
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 06:21:00 -
[40] - Quote
Momoyo wrote:Im gonna go mine in a procurer now before it becomes cool. 
Get yourself an osprey it mines better than that said procurer... |

Xython
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
917
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 06:22:00 -
[41] - Quote
Zoe Athame wrote:in before miners keep losing hulks and whining that they can't have the best tank AND the best efficiency
Pretty much this. The forums are going to explode when these changes come into effect. |

Xercodo
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Dark Matter Coalition
1128
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 06:23:00 -
[42] - Quote
current yeild:
==== - mining frigs ===== - procuror ====== - scythe/osprey ======== - retriever ======== - battleship ========= - maxed yield battleship ========== - covetor =========== - hulk
new yeilds: ====== - ore frig ======== - procuror ========= - retriever ========== - covetor ========= - skiff ========== - mack =========== - hulk
(these are my own estimates and interpretations on the dev blog, the procuror/skiff and retri/mack will only be a step or two under the hulk instead of leaps) The Drake is a Lie |

Anya Ohaya
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
129
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 06:42:00 -
[43] - Quote
Momoyo wrote:Im gonna go mine in a procurer now before it becomes cool. 
I think I'm going to procure some procurers. |

coolzero
The Replicators Northern Associates.
23
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 07:01:00 -
[44] - Quote
Procurer/Skiff: primarily made for self-defense. Better mining rate than the ORE frig, good ore bay, but capable of having battleship-like EHP.
better but still there is a problem with the skiff...... the drone bay.
it needs to be bigger for a nullsec ship and should at least hold 5 medium drones (maby more becuase you cant use mining drones on mercoxit afaik.)
|

Tore Vest
298
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 07:09:00 -
[45] - Quote
I cant wait for those new mining ships.....  Its a long time to x-mas tho....
A lot of things can happen before then..... No troll. |

Ziranda Hakuli
Relativity Holding Corp AAA Citizens
79
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 07:16:00 -
[46] - Quote
your just jealous that the mining ships are getting adjust. so go back to your null bear land corner before your put in a cage like any pet |

Cass Lie
State War Academy Caldari State
31
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 07:28:00 -
[47] - Quote
Fabulousli Obvious wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:The trade off for your safety will be that you must give up some of your yield  and hold to gain this advantage. Hooo boy. Wiping away those laughter tears. Taking off 2 strippers to leave the ONE that the silly ship even holds.............yessir, that is only SOME yield I guess. OMG forbid they ever nerf your PI tax rates by 66%. We will never hear the end of it. Or give up 66% yield of your OTECMoons. There we go.
/facedesk (/facepalm just didn't cut it). What a glorious idea! Nerf their tech yield, that will teach them! Nerf it into oblivion! Only, ehm, now that that there is only a third of the former amount of tech pouring into the game, my hulk kinda costs three times more and is thus a more juicy gang target. And it has only made the tech holders richer! Foul play! Nerf it more!
If anything, you should lobby for increasing the supply of tech and watch OTEC try to stockpile it and perpetually distrust each other because of the possibility of cashing in. |

MarKand
Aimonme Technology
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 07:38:00 -
[48] - Quote
Greed is good, all gankers can relax. Even with a haulersized cargo emp-miners will still move ore to a can becouse they dont want to move the Hulk out of the spot, with drones of the Hulk on aggro and a canflip, the day is done.
On topic I think this is the secondbest idea for a long time, but I still think the best idea is to remove orebelts from highsec and just have them in missions or probedsites. The very idea that resources respawn in the most dense and populated areas is contraproductiv for the game. Riches by resources should be amassed where the risc meets the value, and not as it is now. With the new friggs commin lowsec mining could be a very profiteble incomme, since they will have a chance to sneak by camped entrypoints.
Regarding the Hulk/Covetor as a soloship, I personally, have always wanted to see a change were co-op ships only actually work in co-op, as an example, make the mindlink of the miningforeman the activationkey for T2 stripminers, wont work without a miningforeman. Mayne a litte to much descriptive to get multiplayer work, but the very idea to have a Deep Space Mining Vessel working roids in highsec is a little alike the idea having a deep sea explorer in the pool, cleaning the tiles.
I know these are old and flamable ideas, but I still think they are valid, when I started playing eve a long time ago, I felt like a explorer back in the 1500 centrury, and all the riches where in the mystic unknown deep space called 0.0. And lowsec, lowsec were the horror stemed sea of pirates and most of all oppertunities, mining omber( even looks like gold) in a trasher, always on the lookout for the ebilpirates, becouse you knew they were comming, just not when :)
Please bring that feeling back! Pretty please...
PS Really good and constructive OP, felt I had to make a post and a edit! |

Ned Black
Driders
40
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 08:17:00 -
[49] - Quote
Cass Lie wrote:Fabulousli Obvious wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:The trade off for your safety will be that you must give up some of your yield  and hold to gain this advantage. Hooo boy. Wiping away those laughter tears. Taking off 2 strippers to leave the ONE that the silly ship even holds.............yessir, that is only SOME yield I guess. OMG forbid they ever nerf your PI tax rates by 66%. We will never hear the end of it. Or give up 66% yield of your OTECMoons. There we go. /facedesk (/facepalm just didn't cut it). What a glorious idea! Nerf their tech yield, that will teach them! Nerf it into oblivion! Only, ehm, now that that there is only a third of the former amount of tech pouring into the game, my hulk kinda costs three times more and is thus a more juicy gang target. And it has only made the tech holders richer! Foul play! Nerf it more! If anything, you should lobby for increasing the supply of tech and watch OTEC try to stockpile it and perpetually distrust each other because of the possibility of cashing in.
Actually, they should remove moon mining entirely if you ask me... and if not they really should make it more like PI where the veins go away after a time... not the isk printing machine it is today. |

Marlona Sky
Massive PVPness Psychotic Tendencies.
1172
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 08:43:00 -
[50] - Quote
Xercodo wrote:current yield: ==== - mining frigs ===== - procuror ====== - scythe/osprey ======== - retriever ======== - battleship ========= - maxed yield battleship ========== - covetor =========== - hulk
new yeilds: ====== - ore frig ======== - procuror ========= - retriever ========== - covetor ========= - skiff ========== - mack =========== - hulk
(these are my own estimates and interpretations on the dev blog, the procuror/skiff and retri/mack will only be a step or two under the hulk instead of leaps)
Even if your text visualization is not accurate, I do like it. 
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |

Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc
142
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 08:47:00 -
[51] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Sometimes i have to wake up at 6am on a sunday to go defend or repair my moons. Stop, you're giving me ideas!
coolzero wrote:better but still there is a problem with the skiff...... the drone bay.
it needs to be bigger for a nullsec ship and should at least hold 5 medium drones (maby more becuase you cant use mining drones on mercoxit afaik.) I vote 75m3 so you can fit a flight of medium drones and a flight of small drones. I bet there will be stupid noobs who stick 3 large drones in there. -á"The Mittani: Hated By Badposters i'm strangely comfortable with it" -Mittens |

Sal Alo
Pane e Panelle
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 09:57:00 -
[52] - Quote
My impression is that CCCP won't change the current mining system and its semi-AFK-friendly current status (before <3 Goons) and they'd like to bring that back. IIRC once or twice they had admitted the above pretty explicitly.
Anyway, I could be more interested in the Retriever/Mackinaw: made for self-reliance. Has the largest ore bay, similar to the size of a jet can , second best mining output but less EHP (how much less?) than the procurer mining barge. |

Yolanta Geezenstack
GWA Corp Unified Church of the Unobligated
6
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 10:03:00 -
[53] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Just because you don't see the downside to the moons doesn't meant there isn't one thats there. Moons (even the non broken ones that aren't tech) take a ton of care, feeding, and sometimes ruining a whole day of your life that you'll literally never get back just to deal with.
Hm, does that mean you do boring stuff to earn your ISK, maybe even as boring and non-emergent as mining?  |

Lipbite
Express Hauler
82
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 10:26:00 -
[54] - Quote
Everyone should be happy - it's only 6 months to wait and $90 to pay for hulkageddoners to be able to shoot your barge. |

Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
142
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 14:24:00 -
[55] - Quote
Ask yourselves this miners: What costs you more ISK? Gankers or >4.00 trit? In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse. |

JitaPriceChecker2
State War Academy Caldari State
173
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 14:30:00 -
[56] - Quote
Will they revamp ice mining ???
10 minute cycle ??? Really ??? |

Fabulousli Obvious
State War Academy Caldari State
350
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 14:32:00 -
[57] - Quote
Sal Alo wrote:My impression is that CCCP  won't change the current mining system and its semi-AFK-friendly current status (before <3 Goons) and they'd like to bring that back. IIRC once or twice they had admitted the above pretty explicitly. Anyway, I could be more interested in the Retriever/Mackinaw: made for self-reliance. Has the largest ore bay, similar to the size of a jet can , second best mining output but less EHP (how much less?) than the procurer mining barge.
Yeah, great design scheme ain't it ? The better, more expensive ship (Hulk) shall remain a paper bag.
I'm glad Real Life design is much better than EVE. I think that God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability. In all matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane. ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900 |

Kijo Rikki
Killboard Padding Services
106
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 16:20:00 -
[58] - Quote
Yeah, small compact armored trucks aren't as sturdy as tractor trailers. |

Raekek
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 16:27:00 -
[59] - Quote
I wonder how the mining cruisers will fit into this plan? (Osprey, Exequror, etc.)
They are pretty useless right now. Hopefully they will be rebalanced to fit (viable) support roles or something. |

Alia Gon'die
Aliastra Gallente Federation
110
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 16:33:00 -
[60] - Quote
Ziranda Hakuli wrote:your just jealous that the mining ships are getting adjust. so go back to your null bear land corner before your put in a cage like any pet
What? Don't AAA Citizens live in nullsec?
I'm pretty sure most people are down for these kinds of changes. Self-appointed forums hallway monitor |
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