EVE Search - Why the falcon is different?

All Channels

Ships and Modules

Why the falcon is different?

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Neliel Soifon	Posted - 2009.11.15 13:38:00 - [1] Edited by: Neliel Soifon on 15/11/2009 13:39:44 I know flames will come, but the falcon is still imbalanced, that is a fact. The main reason is that any other recon ship is able to basically shut down 1 single target but the falcon, instead, can shut down multiple targets. Now, my question is why? Chance based is not an answer, anyone fighting vs a gang with 2 or 3 falcons know pretty well how they are able to shut down your whole gang. edit: oh, don't talk me about eccm please, the arazu, for example, is useless vs a target fitting sensor boosters (and that's so hard to find, isn't it, eh?).
Thuul'Khalat Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2009.11.15 13:40:00 - [2] nonsense --- Podlogs: Life in Veto
Jhagiti Tyran Mortis Angelus	Posted - 2009.11.15 13:55:00 - [3] Originally by: Neliel Soifon any other recon ship is able to basically shut down 1 single target The Curse can tracking disrupt and neut multiple targets. Regardless your post is almost certainly a troll, either that or you just died to a gang with a Falcon and taking a ride on the Whaaambulance.
Roemy Schneider Vanishing Point.	Posted - 2009.11.15 13:57:00 - [4] yeah jam ships are powerful as ever, just not at 200+ km anymore. inhibiting an entire ship unless it uses lousy fof missiles... or smarties is more than any other can do. i'm a little surprised noone has gone for a rook-fleet yet (i guess caldari cruiser III and some BC levels is easier zzz) - putting the gist back into logistics

CCP StevieSG	Posted - 2009.11.15 14:06:00 - [5] Moved to ships and modules from EVE General

Jamyl TashMurkon Amarr	Posted - 2009.11.15 14:14:00 - [6] Falcon - Chance based Everything else Guaranteed to work within x range jams are also range based so stop whining.
Dabljuh	Posted - 2009.11.15 15:13:00 - [7] Edited by: Dabljuh on 15/11/2009 15:16:05 ECM: Disables a targets ability to target anything for 30 seconds RSD: Reduces Targeting Range TD: Reduces Turret Range TP: Uhh.. lol Now don't get me wrong, TDs are f'ing powerful vs turretted ships and the problem is there's nothing comparably efficient vs missiles (Defenders suck), but it's very hard to bring anything but minmatar T1 frigs below the range of scram/web with RSDs, which is what you would want. The problem isn't that Jamming is too powerful. An ewar ship that can lock down no more than 1 other ship is USELESS. Because you might as well bring a slugfest ship (guns/tank) and thus even the numbers. The point of an ewar ship is that it can lock down multiple targets and thus makes it preferrable to just bringing another slugfest ship. Without the ability to lock down multiple ships, an ewar ship has no right to be part of a party. The problem is that jamming is much more effective than other types of ewar. Specifically: RSDs are useless and TPs shouldn't be considered ewar modules in the first place. And the falcon is just the ship with jamming bonuses. Give the falcon RSD or TP bonuses and it's as worthless as any other RSD/TP-bonused ship. The problem isn't the falcon. It's RSDs being useless and TPs not having anything to do with Ewar. TDs are fine.
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2009.11.15 15:16:00 - [8] Originally by: Thuul'Khalat nonsense -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
Walker Bulldog Minmatar VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD	Posted - 2009.11.15 16:11:00 - [9] BECAUSE OF FALCON
Ariel Dawn Perkone	Posted - 2009.11.15 16:11:00 - [10] With their reduced range they're pretty easy to grab, however ECCM modules should reduce time jammed in addition to increasing sensor strength. Ex. ECCM - Sensor Type II gives 96% more sensor strength, should also reduce time jam time by ~35% or so (13 seconds instead of 20) People fitting a counter module would be actually able to better counter something!
el Sabor	Posted - 2009.11.15 16:16:00 - [11] Annoying? Yes. Especially when a hostile gang fields enough of the buggers to jam the majority of my corporation. Imbalanced? Not sure but it is a lot easier to counter now...
Anania Arlath	Posted - 2009.11.15 16:28:00 - [12] Originally by: Dabljuh the problem is there's nothing comparably efficient vs missiles (Defenders suck) ECM Also, I'm going to train falcon/scorp with another alt just because of all the hate they get. Alot of hate = useful ships.
Smilla Snow	Posted - 2009.11.15 19:17:00 - [13] Originally by: Ariel Dawn With their reduced range they're pretty easy to grab, however ECCM modules should reduce time jammed in addition to increasing sensor strength. Ex. ECCM - Sensor Type II gives 96% more sensor strength, should also reduce time jam time by ~35% or so (13 seconds instead of 20) People fitting a counter module would be actually able to better counter something! Because pilots want to have the "nber" ships they are not thinking about to waste a slot for eccm modules. Whining is much more easy.
Tagami Wasp Caldari Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.11.15 21:09:00 - [14] Edited by: Tagami Wasp on 15/11/2009 21:09:58 Keep crying, Falcon and ECM got nerfed to where they should be. If you don't fit ECCM you get pawned by ECM. Deal with it. Next you are going to start whining that blasters are OP because you need to fit tank to counter them. QQ BECAUSE OF FALCON losers.
Anubis Xian Reavers	Posted - 2009.11.15 21:17:00 - [15] The old ECM system was better, although it needed some adjustments. Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
TraderJade Caldari Secure Production Research and Trading	Posted - 2009.11.15 21:26:00 - [16] not more falcon whines... don't forget that the other 3 have secondary uses too gallente = increased warp scram range minmatar = increased web range amarr = much better neuts caldari = bugger all all those extras make em able to solo small stuff while the falcon is only useful in a fleet! So given its only use is in fleets, is chance based and easily combated with ECCM... how exactly is falcon over powered? (being too lazy to fit ECCM isn't a valid reason )
Typhado3 Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Aeternus.	Posted - 2009.11.15 21:58:00 - [17] Ever heard of racial balance? caldari = king of ewar, they stand miles above the rest. Amarr next best tracking disruptors are nice, neuts are nice too. Gallente giant multi man tackler sorta fails if your trying to use their damp ships though. Minmatar.... we can't actually disable anything we're just a giant tacklers and nano dps boats. Feel free to argue about the order of the last 2, or the last 3 if your really crazy. Caldari's racial strength is ewar and they stand miles ahead in it that's how eve is balanced... at least for the most part. ------------------------------ Just a crazy inventor ccp fix mining agent missions % pls
Tippia Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2009.11.15 22:15:00 - [18] Originally by: Neliel Soifon that is a fact. No it isn't. Until you prove it, it's just an opinion — and a baseless one at that. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Zeerover DeadSpace Exploration and Investigations	Posted - 2009.11.15 22:29:00 - [19] I've never understood why the ECCM module doesn't help vs all ewar (ECM, TD, RSD and TP's), if it did then it wouldn't be such a gimp to fit one.
Duchess Starbuckington	Posted - 2009.11.15 22:50:00 - [20] Originally by: Zeerover I've never understood why the ECCM module doesn't help vs all ewar (ECM, TD, RSD and TP's), if it did then it wouldn't be such a gimp to fit one. Quoted for epic idea. Originally by: Neliel Soifon Edited by: Neliel Soifon on 15/11/2009 13:39:44 I know flames will come, but the falcon is still imbalanced, that is a fact. The main reason is that any other recon ship is able to basically shut down 1 single target but the falcon, instead, can shut down multiple targets. Now, my question is why? Chance based is not an answer, anyone fighting vs a gang with 2 or 3 falcons know pretty well how they are able to shut down your whole gang. edit: oh, don't talk me about eccm please, the arazu, for example, is useless vs a target fitting sensor boosters (and that's so hard to find, isn't it, eh?). Quoted for hilarious stupidity.
Typhado3 Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Aeternus.	Posted - 2009.11.15 23:05:00 - [21] Originally by: Zeerover I've never understood why the ECCM module doesn't help vs all ewar (ECM, TD, RSD and TP's), if it did then it wouldn't be such a gimp to fit one. because TD, SD and especially TP are already stacking nerfed to hell adding in something that reduces their effectiveness would be a rather massive nerf to them. ------------------------------ Just a crazy inventor ccp fix mining agent missions % pls
Bomberlocks Minmatar Icarus Prime	Posted - 2009.11.15 23:07:00 - [22] Originally by: Zeerover I've never understood why the ECCM module doesn't help vs all ewar (ECM, TD, RSD and TP's), if it did then it wouldn't be such a gimp to fit one. ECCM reduces sig size, doesn't it? That would mean it helps against TPs as well.
Zeerover DeadSpace Exploration and Investigations	Posted - 2009.11.15 23:23:00 - [23] Originally by: Typhado3 Originally by: Zeerover I've never understood why the ECCM module doesn't help vs all ewar (ECM, TD, RSD and TP's), if it did then it wouldn't be such a gimp to fit one. because TD, SD and especially TP are already stacking nerfed to hell adding in something that reduces their effectiveness would be a rather massive nerf to them. If the ECCM modules helped vs all ewar one could undo the old RSD nerf and make the Arazu/Lachesis viable against all ships that didn't fit the ECCM... It's just a different game philosophy, creating counters instead of swinging the old nerfbat, and it's a game philosophy which I feel adds more complexity...and yes I think that is good
DeputyFruitfly	Posted - 2009.11.16 03:51:00 - [24] No srsly? You people are STILL whining about falcon? hahahahaa!!!
Pater Peccavi Minmatar The Bastards	Posted - 2009.11.16 04:08:00 - [25] Originally by: Bomberlocks Originally by: Zeerover I've never understood why the ECCM module doesn't help vs all ewar (ECM, TD, RSD and TP's), if it did then it wouldn't be such a gimp to fit one. ECCM reduces sig size, doesn't it? That would mean it helps against TPs as well. No, ECCM only helps increase sensor strength, which means that it's more difficult to scan those ships down. I still think that ECM was a failure in game design, but CCP has shown that they'd rather add "weaknesses" to it instead of scrapping it for a better thought out EWAR system. Also, can't post in an EWAR thread without saying lolpainters. _________
Fumitsugu Blood Money Bootcamp	Posted - 2009.11.16 09:29:00 - [26] Originally by: DeputyFruitfly No srsly? You people are STILL whining about falcon? hahahahaa!!! Originally by: TraderJade don't forget that the other 3 have secondary uses too gallente = increased warp scram range minmatar = increased web range amarr = much better neuts caldari = bugger all all those extras make em able to solo small stuff while the falcon is only useful in a fleet!
Marko Riva Adamant Inc.	Posted - 2009.11.16 10:05:00 - [27] Originally by: Dabljuh Edited by: Dabljuh on 15/11/2009 15:16:05 ECM: Disables a targets ability to target anything for 30 seconds RSD: Reduces Targeting Range TD: Reduces Turret Range TP: Uhh.. lol Now don't get me wrong, TDs are f'ing powerful vs turretted ships and the problem is there's nothing comparably efficient vs missiles (Defenders suck), but it's very hard to bring anything but minmatar T1 frigs below the range of scram/web with RSDs, which is what you would want. The problem isn't that Jamming is too powerful. An ewar ship that can lock down no more than 1 other ship is USELESS. Because you might as well bring a slugfest ship (guns/tank) and thus even the numbers. The point of an ewar ship is that it can lock down multiple targets and thus makes it preferrable to just bringing another slugfest ship. Without the ability to lock down multiple ships, an ewar ship has no right to be part of a party. The problem is that jamming is much more effective than other types of ewar. Specifically: RSDs are useless and TPs shouldn't be considered ewar modules in the first place. And the falcon is just the ship with jamming bonuses. Give the falcon RSD or TP bonuses and it's as worthless as any other RSD/TP-bonused ship. The problem isn't the falcon. It's RSDs being useless and TPs not having anything to do with Ewar. TDs are fine. If you're going to try and use reasoning it might help if you get your facts straight. ecm is 20 seconds, not 30 RSD can slao increase locking time TD also works against tracking Apart from that TD and RSD still work perfectly fine on non-bonused ships and you can use them in a pvp fit. ECM is crap without bonuses and needs the low slot amps to actually make it work. In other words; an ECM ship can only really be 'useful' if he completely commits to it's task, the second you start fitting for a proper tank and perhaps even a PVP fit is where your jamming power goes down so much it becomes a lottery. ----------- I think, therefore I'm single. ADM-I
Tozmeister Digital Fury Corporation	Posted - 2009.11.16 15:17:00 - [28] BECAUSE OF FALCO +++????+++Out of Cheese Error. Redo From Start+++
Zhilia Mann	Posted - 2009.11.16 15:30:00 - [29] Originally by: Tozmeister BECAUSE OF FALCO This pretty much made my morning.
A Ingus	Posted - 2009.11.16 15:47:00 - [30] Edited by: A Ingus on 16/11/2009 15:53:10 Originally by: Marko Riva If you're going to try and use reasoning it might help if you get your facts straight. ecm is 20 seconds, not 30 RSD can slao increase locking time TD also works against tracking Apart from that TD and RSD still work perfectly fine on non-bonused ships and you can use them in a pvp fit. ECM is crap without bonuses and needs the low slot amps to actually make it work. In other words; an ECM ship can only really be 'useful' if he completely commits to it's task, the second you start fitting for a proper tank and perhaps even a PVP fit is where your jamming power goes down so much it becomes a lottery. Hmm, but that appears to be the problem really. Already the ability to prevent/break a lock on anything is an incredibly out of balance ew power compared to reducing targeting range, increasing targeting time, reducing turret tracking, reducing turret optimal/falloff, increasing signature radius (by roughly a third to less than a half btw which is extremely frightening, hold me please ). Add to it that ecm is the only ew to get low slot booster modules to its range and strength, and more rig choices to power/effect than other ew gets. So of course everyone loads up on all that. The ecm boats become absolute disablers of multiple enemy ships, unlike other ew boats which essentially focus their ew to disable/tackle one target. So of course ecm boats become gdffs screaming PRIMARY!!! However, if the lot slot amps did not exist, and the rigs were less powerful, and the ship bonuses per level were not 30%, or eccm were more powerful, you would not get proctically reliable jams (especially against anything other than an eccm'd BS or recon) as you do now. This would mean you would have sacrifice some ew module slots to fit the same "paper thin tank" of a LSE(or 2) and dc that other ew boats do (see typical Curse, Rapier, I might mention the Arazu but there are so many problems with that ship I really have given up on it). So, ironically it might be the very power of the ecm boat "completely commit(ed) to it's task" that is the problem. ECM still can sit at range, disable its multiple targets and let others do the tackling and killing. Try flying a Rapier or Curse within 24km of the fight and then you will understand what a true "lottery" and "paper thin tank" are. Btw, to those crying, but ecm got nerfed. No. ECM got altered twice. For some reason ecm cannot get properly nerfed (I'm looking at 60% webs, scripted and strength nerfed damps, nos nerf). Every time CCP tries to address ecm oh the whines. And so for instance the ships lose some ew range, but then at the same time get a strength increase and some tools to partially overcome the range reduction. WTF And, of course there is the "well if you are too stupid that you can't fit eccm . . ." argument. Ok, take some wonderful Amarr ships with 4, 3, 2, choke, 1 midslot Ok, let's see I need a speed module so I can get in range to apply my damage, or stay out of scram/web range, check 1. Oh, and I need a cap booster because I may want to neut something, and many other ships might neut me (and not just the amarr ew ships), check 2. Well, and I also need some sort of tackle especially if I'm meant as close range melt face damage and tackle, check 3. So that leaves only 4 ships with one slot left, Harb, Abaddon, Apoc, Sacrilege. We can sorta ignore the Apoc because it's fit for sniping. Sacrilege with an ECCM will still have a weak signal strength. A web might be a better choice there. Hmm, ok so maybe eccm for a harb or baddon. So, you see not simple as "just fit eccm." All that said, really the ideal solution would be to buff the other ew boats. Then we might see more of them altering a battlefield in the same manner. Also, then the ecm boat might not be the automatic - PRIMARY!!! edit- +1 for "Because of Falco"

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.