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Simvastatin Montelukast Qui dormit non peccat Gunmen of the Apocalypse	Posted - 2009.11.23 15:51:00 - [1] Alright so I have been flying around the Damnation and the Sleip (lost one of each due to my amazing fitting skills ). What I was wondering is what command ship has the best dps. I can fly all the amarr, minmatar and caldari command ships (so I am hoping it's not one of the two gallente command ships ) Thoughts, Thanks
Ralavina	Posted - 2009.11.23 15:56:00 - [2] Pure DPS? Probably the blaster gallente one. Actually useful in a gang? Sleipnir or Damnation. Ralara's banned again so this is my alt :p
Butzewutze	Posted - 2009.11.23 16:05:00 - [3] Originally by: Ralavina Edited by: Ralavina on 23/11/2009 16:02:15 Pure DPS? Probably the Astarte. 2x mag stabs + neutrons = about 930 DPS. Next up is the Absolution @ 710 / 790 DPS (2/3 heat sinks) 3rd comes the Sleipnir ... 723 DPS with 2 gyros Finally the nighthawk. 520 DPS when dealing kinetic damage with 2 BCS. HAMs take it to 630 DPS but then you have real fitting problems. Like the nighthawk didn't have enough of them already. So 710 is more than 723? Interesting math.
Ralavina	Posted - 2009.11.23 16:07:00 - [4] Edited by: Ralavina on 23/11/2009 16:07:32 Originally by: Butzewutze Originally by: Ralavina Edited by: Ralavina on 23/11/2009 16:02:15 Pure DPS? Probably the Astarte. 2x mag stabs + neutrons = about 930 DPS. Next up is the Absolution @ 710 / 790 DPS (2/3 heat sinks) 3rd comes the Sleipnir ... 723 DPS with 2 gyros Finally the nighthawk. 520 DPS when dealing kinetic damage with 2 BCS. HAMs take it to 630 DPS but then you have real fitting problems. Like the nighthawk didn't have enough of them already. So 710 is more than 723? Interesting math. No, but 790 is. **** off being a troll plox. Ralara's banned again so this is my alt :p
Miss Xoco Minmatar Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance	Posted - 2009.11.23 16:08:00 - [5] Have to see that stuff relative because Astarte can only do kinetic/thermal. While other ships got more options. Some ships such as Ishtar naturaly got high explosive weakness which cant be abused with.
Simvastatin Montelukast Qui dormit non peccat Gunmen of the Apocalypse	Posted - 2009.11.23 16:13:00 - [6] Well I liked the DPS being put out by the sleip, especially when I went to RFGyros, but I didn't feel it was enough. I guess for the money I should really just stick with t1 BC's?
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2009.11.23 16:17:00 - [7] Originally by: Ralavina Edited by: Ralavina on 23/11/2009 16:12:58 Pure DPS? Astarte. 2x mag stabs + neutrons = about 930 DPS. Next up is the Absolution @ 710 / 790 DPS (2/3 heat sinks) 3rd comes the Sleipnir ... 723 DPS with 2 gyros Finally the nighthawk. 520 DPS when dealing kinetic damage with 2 BCS. Where did you pull these numbers out of? Your arse?
geierwally	Posted - 2009.11.23 16:17:00 - [8] Originally by: Ralavina Edited by: Ralavina on 23/11/2009 16:07:32 Originally by: Butzewutze Originally by: Ralavina Edited by: Ralavina on 23/11/2009 16:02:15 Pure DPS? Probably the Astarte. 2x mag stabs + neutrons = about 930 DPS. Next up is the Absolution @ 710 / 790 DPS (2/3 heat sinks) 3rd comes the Sleipnir ... 723 DPS with 2 gyros Finally the nighthawk. 520 DPS when dealing kinetic damage with 2 BCS. HAMs take it to 630 DPS but then you have real fitting problems. Like the nighthawk didn't have enough of them already. So 710 is more than 723? Interesting math. No, but 790 is. **** off being a troll plox. Ah, but that 790 dps Absolution would have 3 heatsinks but the Sleipnir only 2 gyros and so you say the first ship does more dps, eh? I wonder who is the troll here. Absolution(3 Heatsinks): 6 x Heavy Pulse(best ammo + overheat) 1 x Heavy Assault Missile Launcher(t2 ammo) 5 x hobgoblin ---------------------------------------------- = 970 dps Sleipnir(3 Gyrostabilizer): 7 x 425mm Autocannons(t2 Ammo(hail) + overheat) 1 x Heavy Assault Missile Launcher(t2 ammo) 3 x Hammerhead II / 2 Hobgoblin II ---------------------------------------------- = 1000 dps
Ralavina	Posted - 2009.11.23 16:18:00 - [9] Originally by: Simvastatin Montelukast Well I liked the DPS being put out by the sleip, especially when I went to RFGyros, but I didn't feel it was enough. I guess for the money I should really just stick with t1 BC's? Well how much DPS are you looking to put out? They are only battlecruisers... a BS should (my opinion) be aiming for around 700-800 DPS.. 600-700's great for a BC. For the money... that's a personal choice. Some people feel the Tier 2 BCs do come a little too close to the role of command ships (1 gang link, tank and gank). Especially when it comes to the drake / nighthawk. It's up to you... 100m isk more (or even more) for a ship that does a little more tank and a little more DPS with little insurance payout. Ralara's banned again so this is my alt :p
Ralavina	Posted - 2009.11.23 16:21:00 - [10] Edited by: Ralavina on 23/11/2009 16:21:09 Originally by: Nian Banks Originally by: Ralavina Edited by: Ralavina on 23/11/2009 16:12:58 Pure DPS? Astarte. 2x mag stabs + neutrons = about 930 DPS. Next up is the Absolution @ 710 / 790 DPS (2/3 heat sinks) 3rd comes the Sleipnir ... 723 DPS with 2 gyros Finally the nighthawk. 520 DPS when dealing kinetic damage with 2 BCS. Where did you pull these numbers out of? Your arse? Originally by: Nian Banks Originally by: Ralavina Edited by: Ralavina on 23/11/2009 16:12:58 Pure DPS? Astarte. 2x mag stabs + neutrons = about 930 DPS. Next up is the Absolution @ 710 / 790 DPS (2/3 heat sinks) 3rd comes the Sleipnir ... 723 DPS with 2 gyros Finally the nighthawk. 520 DPS when dealing kinetic damage with 2 BCS. Where did you pull these numbers out of? Your arse? That's what EFT gives me for the raw damage outputs on a level 5 character. All ships had their highest damage weapons (Sleipnir was using autocannons) with faction short range ammo, 2x tech II damage mods (except absolution which had a 3rd). Not all command ships are fitted like that but the OP asked for the highest DPS command ship. Why do you ask? EDIT: that quote went wrong. Ralara's banned again so this is my alt :p

Butzewutze	Posted - 2009.11.23 16:23:00 - [11] Quote: 2x tech II damage mods (except absolution which had a 3rd). lol
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2009.11.23 16:24:00 - [12] Originally by: Ralavina Finally the nighthawk... but it's slow, plodding... Is this the Nighthawk that's faster and more agile than both the Astarte and the Absolution, with normal fits?
Ralavina	Posted - 2009.11.23 16:25:00 - [13] Originally by: geierwally Ah, but that 790 dps Absolution would have 3 heatsinks but the Sleipnir only 2 gyros Correct, as I already noted in my post. If you're really losing sleep over it, by all means, swap 2 and 3 over in your head. Ralara's banned again so this is my alt :p
Ralavina	Posted - 2009.11.23 16:27:00 - [14] Originally by: Butzewutze Quote: 2x tech II damage mods (except absolution which had a 3rd). lol Not how I'd do it either but OP asked for very high damage setups. That's a high damage setup. I included a possible 3x setup on the abso as it does have the extra low slots over the other races' ships. Obviously that'll eat in to its tank a bit but ... OP wanted damage. Ralara's banned again so this is my alt :p
Ralavina	Posted - 2009.11.23 16:29:00 - [15] Originally by: Gypsio III Originally by: Ralavina Finally the nighthawk... but it's slow, plodding... Is this the Nighthawk that's faster and more agile than both the Astarte and the Absolution, with normal fits? Originally by: Gypsio III Originally by: Ralavina Finally the nighthawk... but it's slow, plodding... Is this the Nighthawk that's faster and more agile than both the Astarte and the Absolution, with normal fits? Yup. But then he doesn't want a "normal" fit, he wants max damage. shrug. OP - what did you want these for, anyway? PvP or PvE? Ralara's banned again so this is my alt :p
DerArt1st DEFCON. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.11.23 16:30:00 - [16] Quote: I included a possible 3x setup on the abso as it does have the extra low slots over the other races' ships. Obviously that'll eat in to its tank a bit but ... OP wanted damage. Ah, so the Sleipnir can't fit a third Gyro cuz it only haz 2 lowslots, eh? Geierwally were right with his fits, Astarte is first, second Sleipnir / damagewise and not the Absolution
Ralavina	Posted - 2009.11.23 16:37:00 - [17] Originally by: DerArt1st Ah, so the Sleipnir can't fit a third Gyro cuz it only haz 2 lowslots, eh? Yes, that's exactly what I said. Christ, I don't read this forum all that much ... is it normally filled with people like you? Anyway, obviously the other ships can fit more damage mods. They can all fit 3. But some start to really lose out on tank at that stage. Sleipner loses a speed mod - nothing wrong with that, if you want to go all out gank of course but part of the sleipnir's ability is that it's pretty nimble. The Nighthawk can fit a 3rd BCS but at that stage (assuming SPRs in the lows) the tank really takes a dive. A buffer tanked NH wouldn't have an issue with it so much. Astarte - well, it's an armor tanker, it really can't fit a 3rd on there without royally fking over its tank. It's meant to be active tanked but with only 3 low slots left at that point (1x MAR, 1x DC... 1x... what? EANM?) it's fairly ** and a Brutix may as well take its place. So for those of you who write on a circle of paper with a safety pencil, that's why I didn't put 3x mods on all of them. Another reason for the Absolution coming in 2nd is because it has far superiour range and good tracking with Scorch - far more than any other CS. It may not always out-damage the sleipnir but it can certainly out-range it, DPS wise. Anyway, enough of this **. Ralara's banned again so this is my alt :p
Deva Blackfire 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.11.23 16:37:00 - [18] Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 23/11/2009 16:42:50 Originally by: DerArt1st Quote: I included a possible 3x setup on the abso as it does have the extra low slots over the other races' ships. Obviously that'll eat in to its tank a bit but ... OP wanted damage. Ah, so the Sleipnir can't fit a third Gyro cuz it only haz 2 lowslots, eh? Geierwally were right with his fits, Astarte is first, second Sleipnir / damagewise and not the Absolution Pretty much this. Astarte > Sleip > Abso > NH (i think, never compared NH because of how horribad HAM NH is). With Dominion Sleip will get another 7-8% damage boost (thx to ammo changes) which nets around 50dps. Also sleip gets to chose damage types (from almost pure em/explo/thermal) so purty much it wins hands down over astarte in "i can bring most damage to the fight". EDIT: as for op. I think it really doesnt matte rmuch which of the three you fly. All are quite comparable to each other. Well at least till dominion hits. After dominion always use sleip over other CS. Not only it has best active tank (add crystal for omg-win active tank) it is also the fastest one (even in vanilla only-mwd setup it hits 1,3km/s wheras others barely go 1,0-1,1) but also has 2nd highest DPS (numbers wise) and best damage-on-target when you include damage types (thanks to incoming ammo changes). And thats not end of praises :) Decent drone bay, free hislot (launcher or neut), good faloff (20km on barrage, dunno how much with new changes). Cant really get better ;p
Butzewutze	Posted - 2009.11.23 16:45:00 - [19] Edited by: Butzewutze on 23/11/2009 16:45:27 Originally by: Ralavina Anyway, enough of this ****. Did the op ask about practical fittings or how commandships get used normaly? No. Did the op ask about how far the Commandship dish out his damage? No. Did the op ask how much tracking he would have with the highest DMG commandship? No. But thanks for your thoughts.
Neesa Corrinne Stimulus Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2009.11.23 17:32:00 - [20] I think maybe some others have said this in this post already, but since it quickly turned immature I stopped reading after the third post: On paper the Astarte has by far the most DPS, but in practice you'll be able to do the most damage with a Sleipnir. I always get mixed reactions when I say that, but the reason I still assert that it's true is because Minmatar have the ability to pick their damage type. Fighting a ships that's sure to be shield tanked? Use RF EMP. Run up against a ship that is sure to be armor tanked? Swap to RF Fusion or Barrage. Not only for the damage type, but also because of Minmatars long falloff, you'll be hitting the target before they are hitting you if you both start off at a decent range from each other. ---------------------------------

Simvastatin Montelukast Qui dormit non peccat Gunmen of the Apocalypse	Posted - 2009.11.23 17:32:00 - [21] I was looking at this from a pvp point of view. The reason I was asking is the last two times I have brought a command ship to a fight, I have left in a pod. The primary reason I left in a pod, was because I couldn't break a tank (to get at least one kill). Granted I should not have been relying on my command ship for DPS to begin with, but after they went through my buddies it was down to me. From what I understand I should have been in either a larger gang and not fighting (at least in the damnation), or a different ship altogether.
Lugalzagezi666	Posted - 2009.11.23 17:39:00 - [22] Originally by: Ralavina The Nighthawk...(assuming SPRs in the lows)... Rofl.
Leminara	Posted - 2009.11.23 17:43:00 - [23] Originally by: Butzewutze Edited by: Butzewutze on 23/11/2009 16:45:27 Originally by: Ralavina Anyway, enough of this ****. Did the op ask about practical fittings or how commandships get used normaly? No. Did the op ask about how far the Commandship dish out his damage? No. Did the op ask how much tracking he would have with the highest DMG commandship? No. But thanks for your thoughts. But then again. Did he ask for your useless posts in the topic? Instead of filling the post with crap, at least post one constructive post ;)
Cosmic Rainbow	Posted - 2009.11.23 18:24:00 - [24] Edited by: Cosmic Rainbow on 23/11/2009 18:24:42 Originally by: Simvastatin Montelukast I was looking at this from a pvp point of view. The reason I was asking is the last two times I have brought a command ship to a fight, I have left in a pod. The primary reason I left in a pod, was because I couldn't break a tank (to get at least one kill). Granted I should not have been relying on my command ship for DPS to begin with, but after they went through my buddies it was down to me. From what I understand I should have been in either a larger gang and not fighting (at least in the damnation), or a different ship altogether. If that's the case, you really have to take into account a number of other factors, such as enemy gang compestion, your gang compesition what you were calling as the primary target, rather than the raw dps. Picking your targets counts for a lot in combat. Typically speaking, as it stands currently, its not really worth it to use a field command ship at the moment. Your better off with a Tier 2 BC - great bang for your buck, and solid dps. It also gives you a better opportunity to refine your gang a bit further, and pick your engagments a bit more wisely without taking a bit hit on your wallet.
Traidor Disloyal Private Nuisance	Posted - 2009.11.23 18:53:00 - [25] From my experience from using all 4 command ships in PvP (and it's just my opinion and you know how that is). I have a lot more level 5 then level 4 skills when it comes to command ships (fitting them and using the fitted items, I'm better then the generic level 5 in EFT): 1. If you like to armor tank then go with the Astarte or Absolution. But the Abso only has 2 damage types (therm and EM). Abso can have a nice active tank (I have no experience with buffer tanking a command ship). I place faction armor repers and EANM's on mine. I didn't really like the Astarte cause I had to get closer to the target then I had to with the Abso. The Astarte puts out more damage then the Abso if you go gank fit with the Astarte. 2. If you like to shield tank then go with the Sleipnir or the Nighthawk. The Sleipnir will put out more DPS then the Nighthawk but the Nighthawk lets you be further away (unless you are solo then you have to be within point range). The Sleipner is faster and, since I like trains, better looking. I place DGXL shield boosters on my Sleipnir. DPS isn't everything. You also want to survive their DPS long enough to kill em with your DPS. I also like cap boosters because everyone and their dog has neuts. And last, but not least, you being in a command ship means that you will be primary cause it is going to hurt you a lot to lose it. ************************************************* I have three characters. One has Cov Ops V along with all the bells and whistles that goes with it.
Fuazzole	Posted - 2009.11.23 18:59:00 - [26] Did some one on this thread just post a 425mm + heavy launcher sleip fit?
Mr Ignitious Helljumpers	Posted - 2009.11.23 19:31:00 - [27] Originally by: DerArt1st Quote: I included a possible 3x setup on the abso as it does have the extra low slots over the other races' ships. Obviously that'll eat in to its tank a bit but ... OP wanted damage. Ah, so the Sleipnir can't fit a third Gyro cuz it only haz 2 lowslots, eh? Geierwally were right with his fits, Astarte is first, second Sleipnir / damagewise and not the Absolution The abso will deal more damage than the sleip in most situations because the sleipnir is more than likely fighting in fall off. Despite this, the sleipnir is still better because its drastic advantage in mobility. I read the forums assuming there are no trolls, only really stupid people. Originally by: CCP Zulupark WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU?
Butzewutze	Posted - 2009.11.23 20:03:00 - [28] Originally by: Fuazzole Did some one on this thread just post a 425mm + heavy launcher sleip fit? Yeah, i did because he asked for "max damage" and not for proper fits.
Smk56	Posted - 2009.11.23 20:37:00 - [29] Originally by: Butzewutze Originally by: Fuazzole Did some one on this thread just post a 425mm + heavy launcher sleip fit? Yeah, i did because he asked for "max damage" and not for proper fits. No he didn't. He asked which did the best dps. You just interpreted that as max damage because you wanted to post some fail fit. Since apparently 90% of the people in this thread can't seem to understand this I'll reword his question to spell it out for everyone. Which command ship will I get the best dps out of in a regular setup. Its ****ing sad that I have to even say that last part. To answer the ops question. The Astarte will do the most but its going to be at very close range and for isk/performace ratio you're better off with a brutix as it plays pretty much the same. The Sleipnir will give you the most bang for your buck. It gets rather high dps (although cut pretty heavily due to falloff), A decent tank, and it's fairly mobile.
JitaSchnitte	Posted - 2009.11.23 21:02:00 - [30] Edited by: JitaSchnitte on 23/11/2009 21:03:23 Originally by: Smk56 You just interpreted that as max damage because you wanted to post some fail fit. Since apparently 90% of the people in this thread can't seem to understand this I'll reword his question to spell it out for everyone. Calm down, he asked for "what command ship has the best dps" so Buzte is not completely wrong, not to mention that a HAM launcher instead of a neutralizer is not really a failfit as you describe it. I would fit it different but other people may like the extra dps.



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