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CCP give shield tankers a lil love, with a new skill

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Vincent Clarke	Posted - 2004.11.08 22:52:00 - [1] Shield Economy - 5% reduction in shield module capatior needs go on! you know you want to make it
Vincent Clarke	Posted - 2004.11.08 22:52:00 - [2] Shield Economy - 5% reduction in shield module capatior needs go on! you know you want to make it
Directive	Posted - 2004.11.09 06:34:00 - [3] Remove shield recharge, double duration.
Directive	Posted - 2004.11.09 06:34:00 - [4] Remove shield recharge, double duration.
JD's	Posted - 2004.11.09 14:18:00 - [5] make shield recharge skill affect shield boost aswel, at the moment it is much easier and cap efficient to armour tank.
JD's	Posted - 2004.11.09 14:18:00 - [6] make shield recharge skill affect shield boost aswel, at the moment it is much easier and cap efficient to armour tank.
X'Alor	Posted - 2004.11.09 17:52:00 - [7] Once again the Shield tankers vs armor tanker needs some luv as it's not the same as armor tanks thread. Just to explain the obvious "differences" between the two. Armor = actual physical component of the ship. Sheilds = Created energy field and not a pysical component of the ship, it must be created thus it will require more energy to sustain it. no other point needed........it should be harder to shield tank as you must create the shield using energy fields and not a physical component to get that. It should use more energy to create harder and more resistant shields being that's what they are based on. It shouldn't be the same as it's not the same.
X'Alor	Posted - 2004.11.09 17:52:00 - [8] Once again the Shield tankers vs armor tanker needs some luv as it's not the same as armor tanks thread. Just to explain the obvious "differences" between the two. Armor = actual physical component of the ship. Sheilds = Created energy field and not a pysical component of the ship, it must be created thus it will require more energy to sustain it. no other point needed........it should be harder to shield tank as you must create the shield using energy fields and not a physical component to get that. It should use more energy to create harder and more resistant shields being that's what they are based on. It shouldn't be the same as it's not the same.
Jim Steele	Posted - 2004.11.09 19:06:00 - [9] Edited by: Jim Steele on 09/11/2004 19:15:22 Originally by: X'Alor It shouldn't be the same as it's not the same. It should be "balanced" tho' the apoc gets uber cap regeneration yet it uses armour which by your own argument uses less cap, so why does the apoc get such a good boost to cap efficiency and not the raven. you could argue that the raven has more mids to fit cap rechargers as it does but it also has less low slots and a crap powergrid so needs more rcu's just to fit launchers, so cant actually armour tank even if it wanted to (well it can but thats one for another day). So if the apoc gets such a brilliant cap recharge to fire its lasers and tank, why doesnt the raven have a lower shield boost cost to compensate? You could get rid of the missile velocity instead as this doesnt really do much besides increase range (they should have a seperate skill for this anyway and has been promised for months). Death to the Galante
Jim Steele	Posted - 2004.11.09 19:06:00 - [10] Edited by: Jim Steele on 09/11/2004 19:15:22 Originally by: X'Alor It shouldn't be the same as it's not the same. It should be "balanced" tho' the apoc gets uber cap regeneration yet it uses armour which by your own argument uses less cap, so why does the apoc get such a good boost to cap efficiency and not the raven. you could argue that the raven has more mids to fit cap rechargers as it does but it also has less low slots and a crap powergrid so needs more rcu's just to fit launchers, so cant actually armour tank even if it wanted to (well it can but thats one for another day). So if the apoc gets such a brilliant cap recharge to fire its lasers and tank, why doesnt the raven have a lower shield boost cost to compensate? You could get rid of the missile velocity instead as this doesnt really do much besides increase range (they should have a seperate skill for this anyway and has been promised for months). Death to the Galante
X'Alor	Posted - 2004.11.09 19:59:00 - [11] it's balanced by the raven being able to dish out more quick damage than the apoc via cruise missles and torps. they might be BS vs BS but they have completely different weapons and roles if a battle lasts longer it favors the apoc if it doesn't .... it favors raven. apples to oranges, what one gives the other takes, where one shines another fails.......... that's the whole idea and you say that yourself refer any "balance" statements or flames to my "balance 101" thread thread under ships and modules. prabably a few pages back
X'Alor	Posted - 2004.11.09 19:59:00 - [12] it's balanced by the raven being able to dish out more quick damage than the apoc via cruise missles and torps. they might be BS vs BS but they have completely different weapons and roles if a battle lasts longer it favors the apoc if it doesn't .... it favors raven. apples to oranges, what one gives the other takes, where one shines another fails.......... that's the whole idea and you say that yourself refer any "balance" statements or flames to my "balance 101" thread thread under ships and modules. prabably a few pages back
Darkwolf	Posted - 2004.11.10 00:48:00 - [13] Originally by: X'Alor no other point needed........it should be harder to shield tank as you must create the shield using energy fields and not a physical component to get that. Are you telling me that it requires less energy to materialize armour plating out of thin air than it does to regenerate an energy field? Einstein would be turning in his grave.
Darkwolf	Posted - 2004.11.10 00:48:00 - [14] Originally by: X'Alor no other point needed........it should be harder to shield tank as you must create the shield using energy fields and not a physical component to get that. Are you telling me that it requires less energy to materialize armour plating out of thin air than it does to regenerate an energy field? Einstein would be turning in his grave.
Workdawg	Posted - 2004.11.10 02:20:00 - [15] one of the less thought of advantages of shield tanking is that when you run out of shield, you STILL have armor and structure to fall back on. if an armor tank fails, your pretty much screwed, where if shield tanking fails, you can hold on a while longer if you have to. i will admit though that shield tanking isnt quite right. armor tanking, all lo slots, leaving mid slots open to cap rechargers shield tanking, all mid slots, leaving lo open slots to cap relays, but cap relays hurt shield boosters... doesnt quite seem right
Workdawg	Posted - 2004.11.10 02:20:00 - [16] one of the less thought of advantages of shield tanking is that when you run out of shield, you STILL have armor and structure to fall back on. if an armor tank fails, your pretty much screwed, where if shield tanking fails, you can hold on a while longer if you have to. i will admit though that shield tanking isnt quite right. armor tanking, all lo slots, leaving mid slots open to cap rechargers shield tanking, all mid slots, leaving lo open slots to cap relays, but cap relays hurt shield boosters... doesnt quite seem right
Ari Kristinn	Posted - 2004.11.10 09:59:00 - [17] Edited by: Ari Kristinn on 10/11/2004 10:02:05 I agree with darkwolf, i find it very odd that it's is in fact much easier to create seemingly infinate ammounts of physical metal plates out of thin air then to sustain an energy field...
Ari Kristinn	Posted - 2004.11.10 09:59:00 - [18] Edited by: Ari Kristinn on 10/11/2004 10:02:05 I agree with darkwolf, i find it very odd that it's is in fact much easier to create seemingly infinate ammounts of physical metal plates out of thin air then to sustain an energy field...
Jim Steele	Posted - 2004.11.10 10:38:00 - [19] indeed there appears to be something wrong with einsteins equations here mabye he forgot to account for the fact that amarians can violate the laws of thermodynamics. Death to the Galante
Jim Steele	Posted - 2004.11.10 10:38:00 - [20] indeed there appears to be something wrong with einsteins equations here mabye he forgot to account for the fact that amarians can violate the laws of thermodynamics. Death to the Galante
Sissi	Posted - 2004.11.10 10:39:00 - [21] Edited by: Sissi on 10/11/2004 10:44:44 One sidenote: Shield boosters do get stack penalty armor reps do not. I allso agreed that new skill should apply, cause it needs "knowledge" to be effecient but do not make same skill later to armor reps then. This is cause atm shield vs armor is balanced so that raven is better armor tank even than shield.
Sissi	Posted - 2004.11.10 10:39:00 - [22] Edited by: Sissi on 10/11/2004 10:44:44 One sidenote: Shield boosters do get stack penalty armor reps do not. I allso agreed that new skill should apply, cause it needs "knowledge" to be effecient but do not make same skill later to armor reps then. This is cause atm shield vs armor is balanced so that raven is better armor tank even than shield.
blahh	Posted - 2004.11.10 13:36:00 - [23] Originally by: Jim Steele Edited by: Jim Steele on 09/11/2004 19:15:22 Originally by: X'Alor It shouldn't be the same as it's not the same. It should be "balanced" tho' the apoc gets uber cap regeneration yet it uses armour which by your own argument uses less cap, so why does the apoc get such a good boost to cap efficiency and not the raven. you could argue that the raven has more mids to fit cap rechargers as it does but it also has less low slots and a crap powergrid so needs more rcu's just to fit launchers, so cant actually armour tank even if it wanted to (well it can but thats one for another day). So if the apoc gets such a brilliant cap recharge to fire its lasers and tank, why doesnt the raven have a lower shield boost cost to compensate? You could get rid of the missile velocity instead as this doesnt really do much besides increase range (they should have a seperate skill for this anyway and has been promised for months). Raven doesnt use cap to fire its weapons. Therefore it can donate all cap to tanking, which the Apoc cannot (unless using projectiles.. which is only going to be an issue if they become "uber" in the future). I do think shield tanking needs a boost somehow though.. you can run 3large armor reps with the cap for one XLshield boost, and repair twice as much. Only downside is you lose 3 slots vs 1.
blahh	Posted - 2004.11.10 13:36:00 - [24] Originally by: Jim Steele Edited by: Jim Steele on 09/11/2004 19:15:22 Originally by: X'Alor It shouldn't be the same as it's not the same. It should be "balanced" tho' the apoc gets uber cap regeneration yet it uses armour which by your own argument uses less cap, so why does the apoc get such a good boost to cap efficiency and not the raven. you could argue that the raven has more mids to fit cap rechargers as it does but it also has less low slots and a crap powergrid so needs more rcu's just to fit launchers, so cant actually armour tank even if it wanted to (well it can but thats one for another day). So if the apoc gets such a brilliant cap recharge to fire its lasers and tank, why doesnt the raven have a lower shield boost cost to compensate? You could get rid of the missile velocity instead as this doesnt really do much besides increase range (they should have a seperate skill for this anyway and has been promised for months). Raven doesnt use cap to fire its weapons. Therefore it can donate all cap to tanking, which the Apoc cannot (unless using projectiles.. which is only going to be an issue if they become "uber" in the future). I do think shield tanking needs a boost somehow though.. you can run 3large armor reps with the cap for one XLshield boost, and repair twice as much. Only downside is you lose 3 slots vs 1.
X'Alor	Posted - 2004.11.10 21:34:00 - [25] Originally by: Workdawg i will admit though that shield tanking isnt quite right. armor tanking, all lo slots, leaving mid slots open to cap rechargers shield tanking, all mid slots, leaving lo open slots to cap relays, but cap relays hurt shield boosters... doesnt quite seem right YOU ARE 100% correct. No offense intended but if your doing it so are many many others. There is a better mod for "affect" ingame for shield tankers to use there in low for recharge and almost a must ...... your using the wrong thing and you even saw that but didn't look elsewhere for a fix. we'll make you shield tanking men just yet. the best part of your statement is at the very very end. cap relays are better utilized for armor tankers than shield tankers for that very reason BUT most armor tankers use mid slot rechargers and not low slot cap relays as you even state the mids are left open on armor tanks for rechargers. Doesn't really make sense to me to argue(used loosely....i'm not arguing) one way and use it another. maybe shield tankers might have a mod better suited for shield tanking and cap recharge as opposed to relays? shield tankers need **** NEEEEEEED *** to use power diagnostic units and not use cap relays for that very reason. if your trying to use nothing but relays for recharge then it's your own fault for having trouble shield tanking. the PDU's give you more shield recharge rate as well as cap recharge so your double bonuses to a point. plus your comparing the low slot cap relay to the mid slot recharger for the armor tankers, two entirely different mods with two entirely different bonuses. the amount of recharge given by a mid slot recharge on armor tank will be close to the affect of a PDU on a shield tank between the shield and recharge bonuses added together being they work together. The PDU is probably what i would call the most important part a quality shield tank set up and widely the most overlooked AND MOST OMITTED part of it..... but that's my opinion of the mod. the PDU also gives sheild recharge bonus to make up for the lack of cap recharge bonus as well as some HP bonuses. So even though they are not quite the same, mod selection and use of more suited mods can make a total differnece in a good shield tanks and or armor tanks. PDU 2's and the affect of being able to stack 3 or 4 of them is quite potent for a shield tanking raven. Try it. the extra recharge of 4 PDU 2's is almost like a constant free shield booster running all the time. Combine that with a non gimped non penalized cap relay using shield tank with a shield boost amplifier and your in business. Shield tank away if you are currently using cap relays on a shield tank, swap your cap relays for PDU's ...... the affect you'll see is quite amazing. the stacking of PDU's really shows up on a raven obviously. Plus if i recall correctly(may have changed since noticed). PDU 2's has a lvl 4 required skill to use. The mid slot cap recharger 2(not relays) has a lvl 5 req skill to use. Think cap relay 2's also are lvl 5 skill required........don't check required skills often anymore and they may have changed since released. best armor tanks don't have many if any low slots left over for them cap relays either. Cap relays take a slot away from an extra armor mod. so you shield tankers out there not stacking them PDU's.....get stacking.
X'Alor	Posted - 2004.11.10 21:34:00 - [26] Originally by: Workdawg i will admit though that shield tanking isnt quite right. armor tanking, all lo slots, leaving mid slots open to cap rechargers shield tanking, all mid slots, leaving lo open slots to cap relays, but cap relays hurt shield boosters... doesnt quite seem right YOU ARE 100% correct. No offense intended but if your doing it so are many many others. There is a better mod for "affect" ingame for shield tankers to use there in low for recharge and almost a must ...... your using the wrong thing and you even saw that but didn't look elsewhere for a fix. we'll make you shield tanking men just yet. the best part of your statement is at the very very end. cap relays are better utilized for armor tankers than shield tankers for that very reason BUT most armor tankers use mid slot rechargers and not low slot cap relays as you even state the mids are left open on armor tanks for rechargers. Doesn't really make sense to me to argue(used loosely....i'm not arguing) one way and use it another. maybe shield tankers might have a mod better suited for shield tanking and cap recharge as opposed to relays? shield tankers need **** NEEEEEEED *** to use power diagnostic units and not use cap relays for that very reason. if your trying to use nothing but relays for recharge then it's your own fault for having trouble shield tanking. the PDU's give you more shield recharge rate as well as cap recharge so your double bonuses to a point. plus your comparing the low slot cap relay to the mid slot recharger for the armor tankers, two entirely different mods with two entirely different bonuses. the amount of recharge given by a mid slot recharge on armor tank will be close to the affect of a PDU on a shield tank between the shield and recharge bonuses added together being they work together. The PDU is probably what i would call the most important part a quality shield tank set up and widely the most overlooked AND MOST OMITTED part of it..... but that's my opinion of the mod. the PDU also gives sheild recharge bonus to make up for the lack of cap recharge bonus as well as some HP bonuses. So even though they are not quite the same, mod selection and use of more suited mods can make a total differnece in a good shield tanks and or armor tanks. PDU 2's and the affect of being able to stack 3 or 4 of them is quite potent for a shield tanking raven. Try it. the extra recharge of 4 PDU 2's is almost like a constant free shield booster running all the time. Combine that with a non gimped non penalized cap relay using shield tank with a shield boost amplifier and your in business. Shield tank away if you are currently using cap relays on a shield tank, swap your cap relays for PDU's ...... the affect you'll see is quite amazing. the stacking of PDU's really shows up on a raven obviously. Plus if i recall correctly(may have changed since noticed). PDU 2's has a lvl 4 required skill to use. The mid slot cap recharger 2(not relays) has a lvl 5 req skill to use. Think cap relay 2's also are lvl 5 skill required........don't check required skills often anymore and they may have changed since released. best armor tanks don't have many if any low slots left over for them cap relays either. Cap relays take a slot away from an extra armor mod. so you shield tankers out there not stacking them PDU's.....get stacking.
Workdawg	Posted - 2004.11.10 21:48:00 - [27] Originally by: X'Alor Originally by: Workdawg i will admit though that shield tanking isnt quite right. armor tanking, all lo slots, leaving mid slots open to cap rechargers shield tanking, all mid slots, leaving lo open slots to cap relays, but cap relays hurt shield boosters... doesnt quite seem right YOU ARE 100% correct. ( a really long post regarding PDUs being better then Cap Relays for shield tankers.) I was just making a general point there, from a view looking purely at cap recharge rates.
Workdawg	Posted - 2004.11.10 21:48:00 - [28] Originally by: X'Alor Originally by: Workdawg i will admit though that shield tanking isnt quite right. armor tanking, all lo slots, leaving mid slots open to cap rechargers shield tanking, all mid slots, leaving lo open slots to cap relays, but cap relays hurt shield boosters... doesnt quite seem right YOU ARE 100% correct. ( a really long post regarding PDUs being better then Cap Relays for shield tankers.) I was just making a general point there, from a view looking purely at cap recharge rates.
X'Alor	Posted - 2004.11.10 21:55:00 - [29] HAHAHAHAH nice parenthesis....... dang i got BURNED, ya sorry complete and utter unsupervised boredom at work , i plan for the most basic player reading not someone who actually understands it.
X'Alor	Posted - 2004.11.10 21:55:00 - [30] HAHAHAHAH nice parenthesis....... dang i got BURNED, ya sorry complete and utter unsupervised boredom at work , i plan for the most basic player reading not someone who actually understands it.

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