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Erasmas
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Posted - 2009.12.09 00:11:00 -
[1]
I just lost my first domi in a mission because I wasn't aligned, and couldn't get so in time. Granted, I didn't do enough checking and realized after that I only had 1 of the necessary hardener types (I think I was using EM/Therm instead of Therm/Kin), but it made me think that if I fitted a DCII, if my armor got down enough to have to warp out, it would give me some more time before my hull goes pop. with 2 reppers, a DCII, and 4 mission specific hardeners, I've been able to get up to the mid 80%s for resists for any two damage types, and i'm cap stable.
Is fitting a DCII a good decision, at least at first while I'm still getting used to L4s, or should I instead throw in a field stabilizer (I think unecessary since drones are my main DPS) or a fifth mission hardener?
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syphurous
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.12.09 00:22:00 -
[2]
Mag stabs don't help drones, they help hybrid weapons. Omnidirectional ( Mid ) helps them.
And pretty much every ship I fly, even in pvp gets a DCUII. So many times I've suddenly been overwhelmed, or my connection has bunked out come back only to knock me back into structure.
Also, I can do pretty much every lvl4 with a single LAR. Learn the aggro groups and you will rarely get into trouble. Most people will read this thinking it's part of my post, when its actually my sig :P
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Kora Zilesti
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Posted - 2009.12.09 00:48:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Kora Zilesti on 09/12/2009 00:48:58 Fit to survive, not to die. A DCII is an emergency mod - unless you plan on going into structure often in your missions, there are much better things you can put in that lowslot. Try reading up on NPC damage types before a mission and switching to pirate-specific hardeners. Look over mission reports to get an idea of what it'll be like, or even if you want to accept the mission at all. If you fit a mod in the lows to cope with the loss of your armor rather than using a mod that will help you not to lose your armor in the first place, you're going to find yourself paying for hull reps more often than you might like. Or new ships.
A link for you:
Mission Reports
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King Rothgar
Empire Assault Corp Dead Terrorists
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Posted - 2009.12.09 01:01:00 -
[4]
A DCII can be a life saver in pve and is mandatory in pvp for almost every ship in game. That said many do not use a DCII in pve. As long as you have a stable connection and don't bite off more than you can chew, it's basically a wasted slot.
A DCII is basically an armor/hull tanking mod, it adds significant resistances across the board to both areas and basically doubles the effective hitpoints (EHP) on any given ship. That gives you twice as much time to react to too much incoming damage. In your case it likely would have saved you. So I recommend you fit one for now. Later when your skills improve and your knowledge of the missions increases, you can consider dropping it for a damage mod or something. -----------------------------------------------------
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Manu Hermanus
FaDoyToy
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Posted - 2009.12.09 01:42:00 -
[5]
not fail, and at the same time not the most efficient option.
mag stabs on a domi are a good choice if you fit guns, the domi does get a 5%/level bonus to large hyrbids. so if you can fit some guns on it that should help speed up missions. You're posting again!? Has it really been 5 mins?
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Durango Dragas
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Posted - 2009.12.09 01:58:00 -
[6]
I agree, the lack of proper hardners and alignment caused the loss of your ship. As for a DCII, naw, save that slot for another mission dependent primary hardner, then you can sit there till` doomsday and kill with absolute malice towards all your enemies
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Abelard Nightbringer
New Foundation
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Posted - 2009.12.09 02:25:00 -
[7]
http://www.rehcamretsnef.com/EVE.jpg
DCII saved me 3.5 billion isk.
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Kassa Daito
Capital Construction Research
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Posted - 2009.12.09 06:51:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Durango Dragas I agree, the lack of proper hardners and alignment caused the loss of your ship. As for a DCII, naw, save that slot for another mission dependent primary hardner, then you can sit there till` doomsday and kill with absolute malice towards all your enemies
With 4 hardeners then he's hitting a very high level of diminishing returns. A DCII would give him more armor EHP (better even after completely ignoring the +60% hull EHP) and better effective tank/sec than the 4th hardener did. 2x Therm, 1x Kin, 1x DCII > 2x Therm, 2x Kin > all other combinations of 4 hardeners. The difference would be even more apparent with a 5th module in stacking penalties factored in.
It's somewhat well-known (though the reasons why are only known to CCP) that DCUIIs do not stack against the normal module-based resists like an extra hardener would. You actually get much more than you would expect out of that unimpressive 15% omniresist. ** Disclaimer: Author sometimes spell checks but is not responsible for sins of commission, omission, emission, transmission, or submission. Flowers, bricks, or any other form of feedback appreciated |
Schmexy Wexy
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Posted - 2009.12.09 07:06:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Kassa Daito With 4 hardeners then he's hitting a very high level of diminishing returns. A DCII would give him more armor EHP (better even after completely ignoring the +60% hull EHP) and better effective tank/sec than the 4th hardener did. 2x Therm, 1x Kin, 1x DCII > 2x Therm, 2x Kin > all other combinations of 4 hardeners. The difference would be even more apparent with a 5th module in stacking penalties factored in.
It's somewhat well-known (though the reasons why are only known to CCP) that DCUIIs do not stack against the normal module-based resists like an extra hardener would. You actually get much more than you would expect out of that unimpressive 15% omniresist.
This. DCII is worthwhile only if you're going with the 3-4x hard overkill afk mission running full room agro Domi tank. |
Dungheap
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.12.09 07:47:00 -
[10]
worth it imo and a permanent fixture on my mission domi.
two reasons: as stated above it doesn't stack vs. hardeners, so if you're running 2 each npc specific it may be better than an eanm.
the other is confidence to stay in the mission instead of having to warp out, maybe leaving behind drones or having to go around the gates again. you don't mind dipping into hull if you know it's 60% resisted. while you should never breach hull, it does sometimes happen, especially if you're fitting guns and only have the grid for a single repper.
don't neglect the extra resist it gives your shield as well; just that much longer until you have to switch on the armor rep.
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Lacolo Basema
Kotar Engineering
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Posted - 2009.12.09 08:08:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Abelard Nightbringer http://www.rehcamretsnef.com/EVE.jpg
DCII saved me 3.5 billion isk.
You've GOT to tell this story..
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Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2009.12.09 14:48:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Kora Zilesti Edited by: Kora Zilesti on 09/12/2009 00:48:58 Fit to survive, not to die. A DCII is an emergency mod - unless you plan on going into structure often in your missions, there are much better things you can put in that lowslot. Try reading up on NPC damage types before a mission and switching to pirate-specific hardeners. Look over mission reports to get an idea of what it'll be like, or even if you want to accept the mission at all. If you fit a mod in the lows to cope with the loss of your armor rather than using a mod that will help you not to lose your armor in the first place, you're going to find yourself paying for hull reps more often than you might like. Or new ships.
A link for you:
Mission Reports
not true. DC give NON STACK NERFED armor and shield resists. Usually there is nothing better to put on that slot if you already have 2 modules increasing same resists
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Ivanna Nuke
Gallente Daralux
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Posted - 2009.12.09 15:12:00 -
[13]
It's well worth fitting, saved my arse enough times.
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Jana Tanaka
Caldari Tanaka Industries Inc.
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Posted - 2009.12.09 15:31:00 -
[14]
In the case of passive omnitanks: (3 faction EANMs) >>> (2xT2 EANMs && 1xDCII) >> (3xT2 EANMs)
In the case of 4x Hardeners the answer very much depends on the mission damage profile and the hardener combination.
A DCII can be better than another hardener but does not have to.
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kEat0n
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Posted - 2009.12.09 15:48:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Lacolo Basema
Originally by: Abelard Nightbringer http://www.rehcamretsnef.com/EVE.jpg
DCII saved me 3.5 billion isk.
You've GOT to tell this story..
Yes. Tell us.
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Abelard Nightbringer
New Foundation
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Posted - 2009.12.09 20:57:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Lacolo Basema
Originally by: Abelard Nightbringer http://www.rehcamretsnef.com/EVE.jpg
DCII saved me 3.5 billion isk.
You've GOT to tell this story..
Well, i think i was doing a level 4 mission against some Angels. idk what mission it was, The Score? Blockade? idk. anyway, somewhere like 16-20 BS in the room. Upon warp-in, i made the mistake of shooting the wrong guys, and aggro'd the entire room. Being the expensive boat that it was, i tanked that room for quite some time, pulsing the Gist B-type XL, wrecking quite a few battleships, and the faction/deadspace hardeners held em off quite well... til i finally knew it was the time i have to warp out. This just happened to coincide with the exact moment that the Gist B took me down the 0 cap, and my shield was down to 0%. Because you know.... i'm hardcore.
i aligned to warp, then hear "you cannot warp because you are warp scrambled" in a noticeably sexy euro-voice.
oh god. i didnt even notice. 3 little friggies circling me, one with a scrammer. SOB.
of course, it took like 14 seconds to lock the damn thing, and then i sic'd my 5 little hobgoblins on him, and fired everything i had. I was in hull before i had the damn thing locked.
Then it was the final race against time. I was aligned to the dock, travelling as fast as i could, glancing at my hull, the frigate, my hull, breathed a few times, the frigate, felt my pulse, looked at my hull.... and in the moment that that little bugger finally popped, i initiated warp and GTFO, with about 6% hull..
i left the drones there. it was a touching moment when i had to inform their mother of their demise, but she was proud of the wonderful job they had done keeping their podpilot master in his flagship.
I didnt log into EVE for 3 days.
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Burnharder
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Posted - 2009.12.09 21:10:00 -
[17]
Totally disagree with a dude far above. I always fit a suitcase to my ships (for level 4 missions). They've saved my arse 3 or 4 times over the years, particularly when I lose concentration or aggress more than I intended to.
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FT Diomedes
Gallente Factio Paucorum
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Posted - 2009.12.10 06:45:00 -
[18]
I've run thousands of missions and lost a total of 4 PvE ships in the 2 1/2 years I've been doing Level 4s & 5s. Even with all the experience I have of knowing the missions, I still ALWAYS fit a DCU II to anything BC or larger. Thus far, the DCU II has saved my Golem (40% hull), my NH (5% hull), Navy Mega (3% hull) and countless other ships. Of the 4 PvE ships I've lost, 2 did not have DCU IIs.
Not only does the DCU II provide unstacking nerfed bonuses to shield/armor (making it better than a 3rd hardener to the same resists), it offers unparalleled insurance against unexpected situations. ...this doesn't even seem to be a regular case of rats fleeing the sinking ship. Seems more like the rats are on fire, the ship is on fire, and the sea is full of drunk Russians. - Jacob Etienne |
Simply Human
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Posted - 2009.12.10 08:56:00 -
[19]
I noticed that some of the people who say they use damage controls use them because they might get disconnected or distracted. You don't need a damage control to do a mission. It helps if you get in a position to be in hull. But you can avoid being in hull by paying attention and using the right hardeners. |
Irdia Freelancer
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Posted - 2009.12.10 10:08:00 -
[20]
Lets take an example. Been said that a DCII better than a 3rd hardner, so lets look at an example shall we?
Abaddon Imperial LAR 3x Imperial energized adaptives omni damage - tank is 347
remove 1 energized adaptive, add DCII omni damage - tank is 342
replace 3x imperial energized adaptives with plain T2 omni tank is 314 tank
pull 1 adaptive for DCII omni damage - tank is 317
If only runing T2 equip DCII is cap using and fractionally better than 3rd passive T2 hardner. If runing faction passive hardner, the DCII is fractionally less effective than 3rd hardner.
What about if run active hardners? Say 3x T2 EM/Therm hardners? EM/Therm tank is 565 tank.
Pull 3rd hardner for DCII EM/Therm tank is 485
Seams that the DCII not better than a 3rd hardner to me. If you know what your facing, your better off pulling the DCII for something more useful. Either fit more tank or more gank (eg hardner or weap upgrade like a heat sink). If short of cap, better fiting something for more cap than a DCII. Eg cap power relay for armor tanks, or flux coils/power diag for active shield tanks.
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FT Diomedes
Gallente Factio Paucorum
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Posted - 2009.12.10 14:16:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Irdia Freelancer Seams that the DCII not better than a 3rd hardner to me. If you know what your facing, your better off pulling the DCII for something more useful. Either fit more tank or more gank (eg hardner or weap upgrade like a heat sink). If short of cap, better fiting something for more cap than a DCII. Eg cap power relay for armor tanks, or flux coils/power diag for active shield tanks.
When your tank is right on the edge of effectiveness, having a DCU II gives you the peace of mind to keep applying DPS with your armor down below 50%. It uses a negligible amount of cap. My standard armor tank is 1x faction EANM, 2x Rat Specific Active Hardeners, 1x DCU II and 1x faction LAR. My EFT Defense number is better with 4x rat specific hardeners, but I don't have the peace of mind that 10250 hull HP with 60% resists stand between me and the loss of a 2 billion ISK loss when I draw full room aggro (as I always do) and then try to kill everything in sight as quickly as possible. ...this doesn't even seem to be a regular case of rats fleeing the sinking ship. Seems more like the rats are on fire, the ship is on fire, and the sea is full of drunk Russians. - Jacob Etienne |
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