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Does the Hyperion need a boost?

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MalVortex Reaper Industries Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2009.12.13 23:35:00 - [31] OP: Your math is wrong. 7.5% armor repair bonus = 37.5% increase to rep amount at level 5 (7.55) 5% armor resistance = 33% increase to armor EHP and 33% increase to effective* armor rep amount at level 5. (1/0.75 = 1.333)
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2009.12.13 23:50:00 - [32] Like all the ships with repair amount bonus the hyperion would need that one switched for a resistance bonus to be more useful in general pvp. Though thats probably never gonna happen. Too bad, but then again not every ship needs to be geared completely towards pvp.
Muad' Dib Gallente Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2009.12.14 01:41:00 - [33] Edited by: Muad'' Dib on 14/12/2009 01:44:20 Originally by: Izo Alabaster Edited by: Izo Alabaster on 13/12/2009 19:43:06 Originally by: Muad' Dib OMG CCP, pls fix my armor tanking bs that can tank 1500 dps with t2 mods and no overload because it has 6 lows, it's just not fair CCP, look at that Abaddon that is a totally different race or at that Rokh why do they need that much PG CCP ! PS: I am a . Care to post the fitting for a Hyperion setup that can tank 1500dps with only tech2 stuff please? That's the reason I made the thread in the first place, was so I could get feedback like that, minus the personal insults. If there's a setup out there that I'm not familiar with that is far superior to the ones I've tried, then this would be the time to show it, so please, go for it. --Edit: After thinking it over, I'm pretty sure Muad'Dib was thinking of a setup that employs drugs/boosters in order to achieve the stats he's bragging about. To that I say: Show me an active tanking setup that can't do 1500dps tank with tech 2 stuff while under the influence of drugs/boosters. Originally by: Grimpak if that's so, then I want a 2000mm howitzerCool Don't we all? I was using the 650mm railgun as an example of what Tachyons are compared to the railgun lineup. Tachyon beam lasers completely outclass 425mm railguns and they actually have very reasonable fitting requirements considered their performance characteristics. The mega beam lasers are more in-line with the 425mm failguns. 2x lar II 3x eanm t2 1x damage control t2 --- quad lif mwd faint warp scram fleeting webb 2x heavy cap booster t2 with navy cap charges 800 --- 8x electron blaster cannon II 1x auxiliary nano pump I 2x nanobot accelerator I Implants : Numon Family Heirloom ZET 4000 Imperial Navy Noble Strong Exile Booster Numon is 75m isk, ZET 4000 is 140-150m, Imperial Navy Noble is 50-60m isk - atm it's crazy overpriced but it will go down, Strong Exile Booster has 30% bonus to repp but costs 30m isk. You can go with a Standard Exile Booster which is 2.5m isk and still gives 20%. 1630 dps without overload, 2084 dps with overload. Nice ninja-edit on my words, now please ... understand you are an idiot and let it be at that. --- I smack just for myself. Allow faction cap boosters to be traded via normal market !
TimMc Gallente Psykotic Meat Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2009.12.14 01:52:00 - [34] Edited by: TimMc on 14/12/2009 01:53:36 Originally by: Muad' Dib Implants : Numon Family Heirloom ZET 4000 Imperial Navy Noble Strong Exile Booster lol get out. Thats an extreme bait setup. That kind of investment for what? Can tank 1 battleship and a cruiser. Nice warrioring. Edit: I should add for that amount of money you could get some LG slaves. See what that does to your plated mega fit. 200k EHP > 1600dps tank.
Lubomir Penev Dark Nexxus	Posted - 2009.12.14 01:55:00 - [35] Originally by: Izo Alabaster The Hyperion isn't a step up from the Megathron and Dominix, it's a blundering step backwards from them both. Funny how a "blundering step backwards from them both" will beat them most of the time 1vs1. The issue with the hype is not its slot layout or its bonuses, it's that the kind of fights it excels at seldom happen anymore. -- 081014 : emoragequit, char transfered to a friend, 090317 : back to original owner blog
Muad' Dib Gallente Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2009.12.14 02:36:00 - [36] Originally by: TimMc Edited by: TimMc on 14/12/2009 01:53:36 Originally by: Muad' Dib Implants : Numon Family Heirloom ZET 4000 Imperial Navy Noble Strong Exile Booster lol get out. Thats an extreme bait setup. That kind of investment for what? Can tank 1 battleship and a cruiser. Nice warrioring. Edit: I should add for that amount of money you could get some LG slaves. See what that does to your plated mega fit. 200k EHP > 1600dps tank. LG slave set with Slave Alpha = 600-650m Those implants ... 280m. If there is one i could do without, then that would be ZET 4000, but that is only because CX-2 goes in there. However, one cannot ask for one such as you who flies in fleets that blot the sun to know of these things. PS: Numon Family Heirloom + ZET 400 + Standard Exile = 1433 dps tank, 1832 dps with overload. --- I smack just for myself. Allow faction cap boosters to be traded via normal market !
Zarnak Wulf	Posted - 2009.12.14 02:57:00 - [37] Gallente were created around the concept of active armor tanking. When you think about it that really makes sense on a theoretical level. They have the shortest range weapon system in the game. Why would they slow up their ships with armor plates that prevent them from getting into range as quickly as possible? Now this of course is not how the game has developed over the last 7 years. It's idiocy to suggest fleets of active armor tanked gallente. The whole race needs to get a makeover to address changes that have occurred over that time as well as to keep a racial flavor to them. That racial flavor currently only exists on the frigate level. Run up quick. Pour on the pain. End it quickly. Their battleships have enough blaster range to play a weak game of "Amarr Light." Their cruiser line has neither the range of the BS or the speed of the frigates and suffer disproportionately as a result. After the web nerf, HP boost, EM resistance nerf, and the boosting of both the Amarr and Minmatar, - the Gallente BS, cruisers and /or blasters could use some help. Sorry to derail - but some of the suggestions above would push Gallente into more of an "Amarr Light" flavor. I would support a big increase in blaster damage, or an increase in the ship's damage bonus, or more agility to Gallente ships. Make them not as fast as Minmatar but able to get to speed more quickly. I'm loath to increase tracking - BS should have a hard time hitting cruisers. But something along those lines would be great.
Seriously Bored Minmatar	Posted - 2009.12.14 03:41:00 - [38] Originally by: TimMc lol get out. Thats an extreme bait setup. That kind of investment for what? Can tank 1 battleship and a cruiser. Nice warrioring. Edit: I should add for that amount of money you could get some LG slaves. See what that does to your plated mega fit. 200k EHP > 1600dps tank. With 1433 DPS Tank on that fit (thanks above for proper tank numbers), it's actually superior to a 200k EHP tank as long as the incoming DPS is lower than 2310. (Using 75971 as the Hyperion's EHP.) Overheated, the buffer and active tanks even out at more than 2900 incoming DPS...
Martini20 RiotDay	Posted - 2009.12.14 04:02:00 - [39] Edited by: Martini20 on 14/12/2009 04:05:14 Edited by: Martini20 on 14/12/2009 04:03:12 I can see the kind of equation you did there, but I don't think your cap boosters are going to last that long +if you are neuted even a little, which is very probable, your numbers will shrink considerably. So NO, its not superior to a 200k ehp tank
Muad' Dib Gallente Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2009.12.14 04:39:00 - [40] And if a Titan gets dropped on your head you are going to die for sure, but who gives a ** ? Tank may or may not last ... also not everyone in EVE is an EFT/SISI guy who can perfectly manually pilot a ship while handling overload and for sure has the perfect cookie-cutter setup for the ocasion. EFT can only get you so far, and depending or not on the situation you may choose to engage or not. That is not to say that even if you engage in a favorable situation things won't go ** up. --- I smack just for myself. Allow faction cap boosters to be traded via normal market !
firewalker220	Posted - 2009.12.14 05:22:00 - [41] I support the active tank change to 10%!!!! Watch out for the maelstroms with crystals...
Seriously Bored Minmatar	Posted - 2009.12.14 06:35:00 - [42] Originally by: Martini20 Edited by: Martini20 on 14/12/2009 04:05:14 Edited by: Martini20 on 14/12/2009 04:03:12 I can see the kind of equation you did there, but I don't think your cap boosters are going to last that long +if you are neuted even a little, which is very probable, your numbers will shrink considerably. So NO, its not superior to a 200k ehp tank I should have probably avoided the word superior. But you're right, even with no neuting and an unlimited amount of cap boosters, the setup couldn't sustain that rate of repair for more than a few minutes. I just think people underestimate how useful active tanks can be (usually with statements like "GTFO"), and overestimate the amount of incoming DPS you deal with in small engagements...but that said, I agree active tanks are only useful in a handful of situations now, where you pretty much can't go wrong with a buffer tank. For anyone curious though, the equation I used was: Equivalent Tank to Incoming DPS = Buffer EHP * Active Defense Rating / (Buffer EHP - Active EHP)
Izo Alabaster Friendly Neighbourhood Extortion Company	Posted - 2009.12.14 08:15:00 - [43] Originally by: MalVortex OP: Your math is wrong. 7.5% armor repair bonus = 37.5% increase to rep amount at level 5 (7.55) 5% armor resistance = 33% increase to armor EHP and 33% increase to effective* armor rep amount at level 5. (1/0.75 = 1.333) You're correct. I fail at math sometimes.
Izo Alabaster Friendly Neighbourhood Extortion Company	Posted - 2009.12.14 08:27:00 - [44] Originally by: Izo Alabaster Show me an active tanking setup that can't do 1500dps tank with tech 2 stuff while under the influence of drugs/boosters. My point of course, was that while under the influence of drugs/boosters you can achieve pretty crazy active tanking results, which are not unique to the Hyperion. Saying that "the Hyp can tank 1500dps with tech2 stuff alone" isn't much of an accomplishment if it requires drugs/boosters. Here's another example: Abaddon. http://i.imgur.com/GBgJk.jpg
kessah Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.12.14 08:27:00 - [45] Edited by: kessah on 14/12/2009 08:36:25 O dear lord no. The Hyperion is awesome. Just expensive. You just need to play its bonuses. I prefer Gallente for their active tanked bonuses they get, just fantastic to play solo with. Its quite feasible to tank incredible amounts of DPS, not all ships are designed for the blob, i think this ships focused more on smaller skirmish warfare. Originally by: Izo Alabaster Originally by: Izo Alabaster Show me an active tanking setup that can't do 1500dps tank with tech 2 stuff while under the influence of drugs/boosters. My point of course, was that while under the influence of drugs/boosters you can achieve pretty crazy active tanking results, which are not unique to the Hyperion. Saying that "the Hyp can tank 1500dps with tech2 stuff alone" isn't much of an accomplishment if it requires drugs/boosters. Here's another example: Abaddon. http://i.imgur.com/GBgJk.jpg Thats a seup i used. Alot. Its great, but it hasnt the capacity of a MWD. There are alot of different roles of the Hyperion. I generally prefer the Hyperion, although i prefer to triple rep it. 1440 DPS tank No overload, implants or boosters. True sansha EANM's, but the ships so damned expensive to fit up it justifies the cost these modules.
Izo Alabaster Friendly Neighbourhood Extortion Company	Posted - 2009.12.14 08:35:00 - [46] Originally by: Zarnak Wulf Gallente were created around the concept of active armor tanking. When you think about it that really makes sense on a theoretical level. They have the shortest range weapon system in the game. Why would they slow up their ships with armor plates that prevent them from getting into range as quickly as possible? Now this of course is not how the game has developed over the last 7 years. It's idiocy to suggest fleets of active armor tanked gallente. The whole race needs to get a makeover to address changes that have occurred over that time as well as to keep a racial flavor to them. That racial flavor currently only exists on the frigate level. Run up quick. Pour on the pain. End it quickly. Their battleships have enough blaster range to play a weak game of "Amarr Light." Their cruiser line has neither the range of the BS or the speed of the frigates and suffer disproportionately as a result. After the web nerf, HP boost, EM resistance nerf, and the boosting of both the Amarr and Minmatar, - the Gallente BS, cruisers and /or blasters could use some help. Sorry to derail - but some of the suggestions above would push Gallente into more of an "Amarr Light" flavor. I would support a big increase in blaster damage, or an increase in the ship's damage bonus, or more agility to Gallente ships. Make them not as fast as Minmatar but able to get to speed more quickly. I'm loath to increase tracking - BS should have a hard time hitting cruisers. But something along those lines would be great. I agree. I'm just trying to get an increase to 17593.5 base powergrid for the Hyperion, so it doesn't have to be the only tier 3 BS that can't fit a full rack of the largest close range guns while also utilizing its secondary bonus.
Izo Alabaster Friendly Neighbourhood Extortion Company	Posted - 2009.12.14 08:54:00 - [47] Originally by: TimMc Edited by: TimMc on 14/12/2009 01:53:36 Originally by: Muad' Dib Implants : Numon Family Heirloom ZET 4000 Imperial Navy Noble Strong Exile Booster lol get out. Thats an extreme bait setup. That kind of investment for what? Can tank 1 battleship and a cruiser. Nice warrioring. Edit: I should add for that amount of money you could get some LG slaves. See what that does to your plated mega fit. 200k EHP > 1600dps tank. I feel the problem with his logic is if we start throwing high end implants and boosters around, then we're relying on those high end implants and boosters to achieve the desired claims and not the ship. Do you see the problem there? I could use that same line of implants and boosters to get a 1200+ tanking on Myrmidons and Prophecies as well. The Hyperion needs an increase in powergrid so that it can fit neutrons and a decent active repping tank, imo.
Izo Alabaster Friendly Neighbourhood Extortion Company	Posted - 2009.12.14 09:29:00 - [48] Originally by: kessah Edited by: kessah on 14/12/2009 08:36:25 O dear lord no. The Hyperion is awesome. Just expensive. You just need to play its bonuses. I prefer Gallente for their active tanked bonuses they get, just fantastic to play solo with. Its quite feasible to tank incredible amounts of DPS, not all ships are designed for the blob, i think this ships focused more on smaller skirmish warfare. Originally by: Izo Alabaster Originally by: Izo Alabaster Show me an active tanking setup that can't do 1500dps tank with tech 2 stuff while under the influence of drugs/boosters. My point of course, was that while under the influence of drugs/boosters you can achieve pretty crazy active tanking results, which are not unique to the Hyperion. Saying that "the Hyp can tank 1500dps with tech2 stuff alone" isn't much of an accomplishment if it requires drugs/boosters. Here's another example: Abaddon. http://i.imgur.com/GBgJk.jpg Thats a seup i used. Alot. Its great, but it hasnt the capacity of a MWD. There are alot of different roles of the Hyperion. I generally prefer the Hyperion, although i prefer to triple rep it. 1440 DPS tank No overload, implants or boosters. True sansha EANM's, but the ships so damned expensive to fit up it justifies the cost these modules. You don't feel that using cruiser sized guns on a tier 3 battleship due to powergrid restrictions is crying out for an increase in powergrid? If powergrid weren't so restrictive, you could've fit a full rack of electron blaster cannons on your unique triple rep setup because it has enough CPU for that. Also, no magstabs?? Also, on an unrelated sidenote, that particular fit had enough CPU left over to use T2 EANMs if you wanted to. It seems to me that on a double rep setup, you should be able to fit neutron blasters cannon IIs, and on the triple rep setup, you should be forced to downsize to a mixture of ions/electrons or straight electrons. I enjoyed your Forever Pirate videos, and I think I've looked at every single one of your fits. :)
Seishi Maru The Black Dawn Gang	Posted - 2009.12.14 09:46:00 - [49] Originally by: KardelSharpeye Originally by: Seishi Maru I always said.. CCP can boost active tank bonuses WIHTOUT destroyign PVE balance. How? Simply makje the boost bonus also affect over the overheat percentage. Tha means. A hyperion would get (Repair ammount 1.375 (OVERHEAT1.2 * 1.375)) with cycle time reduced by OVERHEAT bonus*1.375 That woudl make all the active tanking bonuses VERY powerfull on VERY short periods of time while overheating. But woudl cause no issues with PVE where overheatign is not an option. How on earth would giving it more rep bonus ruin the PVE balance? Just repeat this until you get it:If you have enough tank it doesnt matter how much more you have!(for PVE), and stop telling people to overtank ships for missions all over the forum. repeat THIS for yourself until you get it! PVE is not limited to level 4 missions. You have level 5 missions 10/10 plexes and SLEEPERS. CCP does not want that a t1 battleship be able to run a level 6 sleeper site. If you have such a limited vision of the whole game better not post ideas.
Price Chopper	Posted - 2009.12.14 11:58:00 - [50] EFT warrioring: [Hyperion, LolWut] Damage Control II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II 100MN MicroWarpdrive II Warp Scrambler II Invulnerability Field II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Large Core Defence Field Extender I Large Core Defence Field Extender I Large Core Defence Field Extender I Bit under 100k effective hit points, 20km falloff with antimatter. It is also fairly nimble for a tier 3. Sure, you need a tackler to get a web on but you are at least somewhat competitive in gangs. Still, kind of sad that it works with a shield setup when it has an active rep bonus.
kessah Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.12.14 14:30:00 - [51] I lose 44dps dropping 2 electrons to 2 heavy neutrons. Nothing a couple 3% dmg implants cant sort out if you worried, i find that most go plate anyways, you'll break them eventually... ...They certainly wont be breaking you. I think i managed to tank a good number of MM in the fit before bringing over 20 in the end to finally finish me. Close though. I suppose your right in the argument for grid. Seems to have the same as the Tempest.
Muad' Dib Gallente Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2009.12.14 16:03:00 - [52] Edited by: Muad'' Dib on 14/12/2009 16:03:35 Originally by: Izo Alabaster Originally by: kessah Edited by: kessah on 14/12/2009 08:36:25 O dear lord no. The Hyperion is awesome. Just expensive. You just need to play its bonuses. I prefer Gallente for their active tanked bonuses they get, just fantastic to play solo with. Its quite feasible to tank incredible amounts of DPS, not all ships are designed for the blob, i think this ships focused more on smaller skirmish warfare. Originally by: Izo Alabaster Originally by: Izo Alabaster Show me an active tanking setup that can't do 1500dps tank with tech 2 stuff while under the influence of drugs/boosters. My point of course, was that while under the influence of drugs/boosters you can achieve pretty crazy active tanking results, which are not unique to the Hyperion. Saying that "the Hyp can tank 1500dps with tech2 stuff alone" isn't much of an accomplishment if it requires drugs/boosters. Here's another example: Abaddon. http://i.imgur.com/GBgJk.jpg Thats a seup i used. Alot. Its great, but it hasnt the capacity of a MWD. There are alot of different roles of the Hyperion. I generally prefer the Hyperion, although i prefer to triple rep it. 1440 DPS tank No overload, implants or boosters. True sansha EANM's, but the ships so damned expensive to fit up it justifies the cost these modules. You don't feel that using cruiser sized guns on a tier 3 battleship due to powergrid restrictions is crying out for an increase in powergrid? If powergrid weren't so restrictive, you could've fit a full rack of electron blaster cannons on your unique triple rep setup because it has enough CPU for that. Also, no magstabs?? Also, on an unrelated sidenote, that particular fit had enough CPU left over to use T2 EANMs if you wanted to. It seems to me that on a double rep setup, you should be able to fit neutron blasters cannon IIs, and on the triple rep setup, you should be forced to downsize to a mixture of ions/electrons or straight electrons. I enjoyed your Forever Pirate videos, and I think I've looked at every single one of your fits. :) If the Hyperion ever got more grid, the combat boosters you loath so much would be the only things that would save it from utter uselessness. If you don't get it, i mean tracking. Using the examples of other Tier3 bs's to justify an increase in PG on the Hyperion is very wrong. The tier 3 bs's were introduced to fill a gap in the BS line. Maelstrom is supposed to be a better sniper than the Tempest and many ppl use it as an active-tanked dps monster. Abaddon has the best alpha out of all amarr bs', but it pays for this with it's horrendous cap usage. Rokh is the only gun-bs the Caldari have and a very good sniper. Hyperion does the active tanking bs with MWD role, that is kinda lacking in the gallente bs lineup. It doesn't have the tracking of a Mega so using it with 425's or neutrons is detrimental, it has the mids to dual heavy cap booster fit it - unlike the mega, and it has 8 guns - i'll let you figure out for yourself why that is a bad thing for a neutron + plates fitted bs. The fact that you can shield tank it for silly ammounts of dps is not that ... incredible since it only works with crystals and no propulsion, and relies on ppl getting close and sitting still. --- I smack just for myself. Allow faction cap boosters to be traded via normal market !

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