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Insa Rexion
Minmatar CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2009.12.16 21:08:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Brasky Bill
Originally by: Insa Rexion
Originally by: Zakhodit By that same logic the loot is owned by the person who loots first.
Clearly a moron like your self who doesn't understand that the very basis of his argument contradicts his point has no place in this forum.
Begone **** ant.
Ships --->(via your guns/missiles)---> loot. you created this, you own it.
Wrecks --->(via the salvager's salvage tackle)---> salvage. if it wasn't your salvage tackle, you don't own it.
Offensive weapons DO NOT create salvage, salvage tackle DOES, ownership confers accordingly
This is horrible logic.
What you kill is yours. No matter what. IE: IF I kill a deer, that deer is mine. You can't come in with a knife and say, I'm skinning and cooking the deer thus it's mine.
Look. It is what it is. It's theft. So what?
I agree with the point that stealing salvage is allowed because it offers a mini profession. That's it. it is stealing but it is an intended game mechanic.
No matter what ? really, so I explode a person's house and all that's salvageable from their house is mine, no matter what ? You may not like the argument I used but it's currently the argument CCP uses. Comparing RL to Eve fails hard as you have just demonstrated.
TBH I don't know why ppl bother, the only valid arguments about savage so far are really about balance, ppl should just stick with that --------------------------------------------
well mannered ****ole |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.12.16 21:57:00 -
[32]
Complete the following sentence:
Hi-sec mission rewards need to be boosted because..............
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2009.12.16 22:02:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Malcanis Complete the following sentence:
Hi-sec mission rewards need to be boosted because..............
.... i save money for my mothership! :p
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De'Veldrin
Minmatar Special Projects Executive The Obsidian Legion
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Posted - 2009.12.16 22:18:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Malcanis Complete the following sentence:
Hi-sec mission rewards need to be boosted because..............
I do not yet own one of every ship in the game. --Vel
In the world of emoticons, I was colon capital d. |
CLETUS DEADMAN
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Posted - 2009.12.16 23:15:00 -
[35]
My opinion is this: 1. Why aren't ammunition and missiles free? I had to pay/manufacture them to create the wrecks that are free to everyone. Where is my compensation for that?
2. I had to pay for game time to train the skills and earn the isk to be able to complete the missions. Where is my free game time for creating wrecks and salvage that are free to everyone? |
Vaneshi SnowCrash
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Posted - 2009.12.17 00:41:00 -
[36]
Look, I'm the universes biggest carebear and I'm not supporting this.
Now if you'd said that stealing in a mission gave a 30 second warp disable effect I'd be all for it. No, I have no idea why suddenly the russian's seem to be fascinated by stealing cap boosters but apparently they are.
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Awesome Possum
Imperium Signal Corps
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Posted - 2009.12.17 01:54:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Brasky Bill
Originally by: Insa Rexion
Originally by: Zakhodit By that same logic the loot is owned by the person who loots first.
Clearly a moron like your self who doesn't understand that the very basis of his argument contradicts his point has no place in this forum.
Begone **** ant.
Ships --->(via your guns/missiles)---> loot. you created this, you own it.
Wrecks --->(via the salvager's salvage tackle)---> salvage. if it wasn't your salvage tackle, you don't own it.
Offensive weapons DO NOT create salvage, salvage tackle DOES, ownership confers accordingly
This is horrible logic.
What you kill is yours. No matter what. IE: IF I kill a deer, that deer is mine. You can't come in with a knife and say, I'm skinning and cooking the deer thus it's mine.
Look. It is what it is. It's theft. So what?
I agree with the point that stealing salvage is allowed because it offers a mini profession. That's it. it is stealing but it is an intended game mechanic.
So if you destroy a player's ship, you have loot rights on that wreck... right?
oh wai... ♥
Wreck Disposal Services |
Asuri Kinnes
Caldari The Bastards The Bastards.
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Posted - 2009.12.17 02:58:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Malcanis Complete the following sentence:
Hi-sec mission rewards need to be boosted because..............
It would drive Malcanis RIGHT AROUND THE BEND!
I have to disagree with the OP because:
CCP has covered Salvaging in Detail, if you had looked, you would have known this.
Don't Mission in Hubs, when I missioned, I was never ninja'd, because I stayed away from busy systems.
OP sounds whiney... enough reason to disagree right there.
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Jane Retail
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Posted - 2009.12.17 10:08:00 -
[39]
I am surprised that - with those cheap rig prices - people still salvage wrecks
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PaulTheWise
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Posted - 2009.12.17 10:19:00 -
[40]
Originally by: CLETUS DEADMAN I had to pay/manufacture them to create the wrecks that are free to everyone. Where is my compensation for that?
That compensation is usually called 'bounty', 'mission reward', 'loot' and if you're doing more than 2 DPS also 'mission bonus reward'
Quote: 2. I had to pay for game time to train the skills and earn the isk to be able to complete the missions. Where is my free game time for creating wrecks and salvage that are free to everyone?
In those same wrecks, go fit a salvager like the rest of us.
I may not like the fact everyone can steal my salvage (intended game mechanics or not, I shot the rat, I took the risk, I should get the rewards, not someone with 3 days training for a destroyer and salvager. If I hadn't shot the NPC there wouldn't _be_ a wreck to salvage, hence the feeling it is mine, but not everyone agrees with me on that :P) as the salvage is a rather large part of the reward, but I've seen too many threads about CCPs endorsement to pipe up :P
Also: Why does everyone mission in the same system? This whole problem would go away if you'd just visit eve-agents.com and find a better system to mission in.
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CLETUS DEADMAN
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Posted - 2009.12.17 12:58:00 -
[41]
That salvage (and loot) wasn't on the screen before I shot the rats and created it. It is additional compensation for my game time. I'm simply saying that why isn't CCP compensating me to create these wrecks since they are generous enough to give them to everyone? Are their efforts more important than mine that it is given away? Is their money better than mine since I developed my toons to create it?
I don't want to fit a salvager to my ship. I want to be able to decide for myself if I let everyone have it by turning in my mission as the mechanics should work. In the current system, it is free to everyone because CCP says that it is. I want compensation from CCP for the real life money and time that I spent getting to the point where I can create it. I could also use compensation for the modules and ship that I use in additional to the ammunition and missiles. I am basing this compensation on their generosity of virtual wealth and ability.
When I complete a mission and return to the site with salvage ships and everything is gone, and there are four to six players (all red) cleaning out the next room I have a major issue with that. I created this and should be compensated for what CCP allows other to take.
"To every man, according to his needs. From everyman, according to this talents" -Carl Marx, Founding father of the CC(C)P.
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Muad' Dib
Gallente Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2009.12.17 13:22:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Zakhodit Quite often while running missions (lvl 4) I will have interlopers scan me down and start to salvage my wrecks. This is theft pure and simple. If I take action against these thieves then CONCORD will (and has) destroy me.
This makes no sense because often the salvage is equal to or is more than the worth of the loot.
Pilots are stealing from mission runners without those mission runners having the means to stop the theft or react to it. This is a loop hole in the way High Sec is intended to work and it needs to be changed now.
No, stealing salvage keeps the salvaging profession alive, so you will have to deal with it yourself instead of whining for it. --- I smack just for myself. Allow faction cap boosters to be traded via normal market ! |
Helen Highwater
Gallente Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.17 14:03:00 -
[43]
Originally by: CLETUS DEADMAN That salvage (and loot) wasn't on the screen before I shot the rats and created it. It is additional compensation for my game time. I'm simply saying that why isn't CCP compensating me to create these wrecks since they are generous enough to give them to everyone? Are their efforts more important than mine that it is given away? Is their money better than mine since I developed my toons to create it?
I don't want to fit a salvager to my ship. I want to be able to decide for myself if I let everyone have it by turning in my mission as the mechanics should work. In the current system, it is free to everyone because CCP says that it is. I want compensation from CCP for the real life money and time that I spent getting to the point where I can create it. I could also use compensation for the modules and ship that I use in additional to the ammunition and missiles. I am basing this compensation on their generosity of virtual wealth and ability.
When I complete a mission and return to the site with salvage ships and everything is gone, and there are four to six players (all red) cleaning out the next room I have a major issue with that. I created this and should be compensated for what CCP allows other to take.
"To every man, according to his needs. From everyman, according to this talents" -Carl Marx, Founding father of the CC(C)P.
I agree with this. If you shoot a rat you should be rewarded in some way. Perhaps CCP should look at giving an ingame reward for shooting rats, perhaps in the form of ISK? Perhaps these ingame rewards should be displayed when you click on a rat so that you can see how much each ship is worth before you shoot it.
Another good idea would be to have some kind of quest system where an NPC asks you to kill a particular set of rats and would reward you with Isk and loyalty points if you were successful - perhaps you could even get an additional amount of Isk if you do his 'space quest' within a certain amount of time.
As it stands we have brave and noble souls like CLETUS DEADMAN shooting rats for absolutely no rewards at all purely out of a selfless devotion to keeping the spacelanes free of danger for the rest of us. Sir, I salute you! Eve needs more like you. --------------------------------------------------------------
Let's not and say we did. |
Hugo Lordmagnus
Caldari Vexillari
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Posted - 2009.12.17 15:51:00 -
[44]
Originally by: CLETUS DEADMAN When I complete a mission and return to the site with salvage ships and everything is gone, and there are four to six players (all red) cleaning out the next room I have a major issue with that. I created this and should be compensated for what CCP allows other to take.
You can absolutely be compensated: come back in a PvP fit and blow up their ships. Then you can loot probably half of what they've taken in addition to whatever their ship drops.
Hell, then you can even salvage their ship.
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Maxsim Goratiev
Gallente Imperium Technologies
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Posted - 2009.12.17 16:05:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Malcanis Complete the following sentence:
Hi-sec mission rewards need to be boosted because..............
PLease tell me how is letting mission rrunners pew-pew stupid people boosting missions? I have heard this argument numerous times and i have never understood how more bloodshed is a boost to mission runing.
Quote: You can absolutely be compensated: come back in a PvP fit and blow up their ships. Then you can loot probably half of what they've taken in addition to whatever their ship drops. Hell, then you can even salvage their ship.
I would love to do that, but most ninja salvagers are in noobcorps, and don't have the guts to take loot.
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CLETUS DEADMAN
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Posted - 2009.12.17 17:43:00 -
[46]
You can absolutely be compensated: come back in a PvP fit and blow up their ships. Then you can loot probably half of what they've taken in addition to whatever their ship drops.
Hell, then you can even salvage their ship.
Again, my point isn't that I can take back what is mine. My point is that the redistribution of wealth, my wealth, deserves compensation for my real money since it is generously provided to all by CCP. If a player exploits, it is called a violation of the rules and the punishment can result in banning. What is it called when the exploit is policy by the game designers? How is providing to all what cost me a viable policy?
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Aloriana Jacques
Amarr Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2009.12.17 17:45:00 -
[47]
As usual, I vote no.
If the mission runners are so adamant and protective about their wrecks then they'll stop whining and take things into their own hands by bringing a salvager in a high slot instead of an extra gun, or make a salvage alt.
Everyone gets to salvage wrecks. Get it through your heads already. - - - Aloriana Jacques - Skill Sheet
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Jerid Verges
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Posted - 2009.12.17 18:24:00 -
[48]
OP : BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAW
Take a hint - Go whine somewhere else. Or travel to lowsec.
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Hugo Lordmagnus
Caldari Vexillari
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Posted - 2009.12.17 18:32:00 -
[49]
Originally by: CLETUS DEADMAN Again, my point isn't that I can take back what is mine. My point is that the redistribution of wealth, my wealth, deserves compensation for my real money since it is generously provided to all by CCP. If a player exploits, it is called a violation of the rules and the punishment can result in banning. What is it called when the exploit is policy by the game designers? How is providing to all what cost me a viable policy?
I see your point, and I think the root of the disagreement is in determining what is rightfully yours and what isn't within the game world.
With respect, the only thing that our real money (monthly fee) gets us is the right to log into EVE and control our characters. What we do with that, i.e. the ISK we earn, the salvage, loot, and ships we acquire, and the prestige we gain as we make a name for ourselves--none of that is deserved. It's taken in competition with all the other players out there.
So if someone tries to take salvage from your mission, then either you have to come up with a way to stop them or get it first or... well... it's gone.
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CLETUS DEADMAN
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Posted - 2009.12.17 18:48:00 -
[50]
Yes,we are communicating on my exact point. There are two types of people and two types of policies in this world and in Eve. There are providers and consumers, there are progressive and repressive policies. Like in life, consumers are always provided by progressive policies, while providers are hindered by repressive policies. Eve encouraging the salvaging profession is a progressive policy towards consumers (the people that salvage and loot from others). From my prospective, Eve has made me a provider by a repressive policy since my prosperity is allowed to be taken by others, and this was not by my choice.
To this point exactly, nothing is deserved. I used my play time to progress through training and isk for ships, etc. And my reward for it? A repressive policy that consumes my prosperity to give it to others.
"We Care More, We Work Harder, The CCP Staff" -www.ccpgames.com
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Hailey Sunweaver
Minmatar Murientor Tribe
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Posted - 2009.12.17 21:26:00 -
[51]
I asked about kill rights on salvage during the Dev meet and greet in vegas this past may. The answer i got was salvage doesn't belong to anyone person so anyone can take it. Meaning there will be no kill rights on salvage ever and has already been brought up by previous CSM(s).
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Awesome Possum
Imperium Signal Corps
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Posted - 2009.12.17 23:43:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Jane Retail I am surprised that - with those cheap rig prices - people still salvage wrecks
/facepalm ♥
Wreck Disposal Services |
Asuri Kinnes
Caldari The Bastards The Bastards.
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Posted - 2009.12.18 02:20:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Asuri Kinnes on 18/12/2009 02:21:51
Originally by: CLETUS DEADMAN That salvage (and loot) wasn't on the screen before I shot the rats and created it.
Ummmm, maybe my overview is bugged.
Please, show me where the SALVAGE shows up on the screen after you shoot the ship?
SALVAGE DOES NOT EXIST BEFORE A SALVAGE MOD IS USED ON THE WRECK.
Your "compensated" by bounty when you make the wreck. Salvage is what is created by use of a salvage mod.
I can't tell if your an in-game troll, or playing an in-game (*word* for intellectually challenged person, either through poor education, or genetics...).
Demanding compensation beyond the bounty for shooting the rat is just greedy.
Originally by: CLETUS DEADMAN Again, my point isn't that I can take back what is mine.
Didn't exist before a salvage MOD was used on it, so it belongs to whoever used the salvage mod.
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Komi Toran
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Posted - 2009.12.18 04:28:00 -
[54]
You know, that is a good point. The wreck wasn't there until he blew up the rat, so the wreck should belong to him, and anyone who salvages it should be flagged. Similarly, I've logged in after downtime or a server crash, and often I've been the first one to enter a system, which causes a traffic delay as the node hasn't been loaded. Ergo, I CREATED the system. I should be compensated for that, too, no? The system did not exist until I willed it into existence by attempting to activate a gate. So, where's my compensation? Should not the miners in that system be flagged to me every time they mine an asteroid that I made? It's just not fair, I tell you.
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Bhattran
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Posted - 2009.12.18 04:57:00 -
[55]
No, sorry can't support anything a Troll proposes.
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CLETUS DEADMAN
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Posted - 2009.12.18 13:03:00 -
[56]
Let's do the math: Ammo: me Gun: me Ship: me Skill Books: me Training Time: me Standing: me Mission: me Risk: me Wreck: everybody
Hrmm... 9(1)= 300,000
Another way... Ammo: my cost Gun: my cost Ship: my cost Skill Books: my cost Training Time: my cost Standing: my cost (time = money) Mission: my cost Risk: my cost (if I don't make it) Wreck: FREE TO EVERYONE
This is reasonable?
Anything else is me being greedy?
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gallchecker
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Posted - 2009.12.18 13:56:00 -
[57]
in the time they spend salvaging i will have made 10 times its value from the loot, i dont begrudge the poor the crumbs from my table :)
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Awesome Possum
Imperium Signal Corps
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Posted - 2009.12.18 14:51:00 -
[58]
Originally by: CLETUS DEADMAN Edited by: CLETUS DEADMAN on 18/12/2009 13:20:11 No troll, just a new perspective on the argument.
Your perspective is moronic.
Bounty - Whoever places the most damage on the target (NOT yours) Mission reward - yours Time bonus - yours Loot - Whoever picks it up first (NOT yours) Wrecks - NOBODY Salvage - Whoever runs a salvage module successfully on the wreck first. Standing - Anyone who aggresses the NPC
Nothing in this game is riskless, stop trying to make Lvl4's a risk free isk machine.
You have to take the chance to make the money, that's all there is to it. Stop whining. ♥
Wreck Disposal Services |
gallchecker
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Posted - 2009.12.18 15:07:00 -
[59]
Edited by: gallchecker on 18/12/2009 15:07:44
Originally by: Awesome Possum Nothing in this game is riskless
how about scamming with a disposable alt?
most risk free carebear system in any game tbh.
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CLETUS DEADMAN
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Posted - 2009.12.18 18:17:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Awesome Possum ...stop trying to make Lvl4's a risk free isk machine.
Dayum, was I that transparent? Just trying triple the price with exclusivity to it. Can't blame a guy for trying...
Thought I had y'all for a minute there.
Oh well...
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