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Kaylee Juuna
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Posted - 2009.12.19 01:40:00 -
[1]
Short story: I started trading a few weeks ago. Never touched a spreadsheet in my life. In a few hours I was able to create a spreadsheet that gave me all the information I needed. Information like, profit/unit, profit margin, etc. Aka, simple multiplication and division functions.
Now, you may say "Big deal, I can too." But I'm not talking the MD community, I'm talking all the noobs that come here, and people in general.
Multiplication and division functions aren't that hard to figure out. But some people just don't get spreadsheets.
Why is that, MD?
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Brock Nelson
Caldari
Flux Technologies Inc
SRS.
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Posted - 2009.12.19 01:58:00 -
[2]
Couple of reasons, take your pick
1. They're lazy
2. They don't have Office
3. They're too lazy to download OpenOffice
4. They want to use the already existing super awesome spreadsheet like my research order management ss. /plug
5. Their ss skill sucks
6. They're still in high school where they haven't been taught how to do multiplication
Tools for Research Business
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SetrakDark
Caldari
DarkCorp Technology and Finance
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Posted - 2009.12.19 02:19:00 -
[3]
My unsubstantiated pet theory is that we have a culture that condones math illiteracy (if that's a term). It's ok not to learn math and become comfortable with it because some people don't "get" math, and they're allowed to go through life believing that even though it's total bs.
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Krathos Morpheus
Legion Infernal
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Posted - 2009.12.19 02:29:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Brock Nelson
Couple of reasons, take your pick
1. They're lazy
2. They don't have Office
3. They're too lazy to download OpenOffice
4. They want to use the already existing super awesome spreadsheet like my research order management ss. /plug
5. Their ss skill sucks
6. They're still in high school where they haven't been taught how to do multiplication
7. They don't have fun with spreadsheets unless they come with pretty graphics and the shape of a ship.
EVEwatch Sidebar soon
"It is the unofficial force ù the Jita irregulars. " |
BigBank Hank
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Posted - 2009.12.19 03:21:00 -
[5]
YO DAWG I HERD U LIEK SPREADSHEETS SO WE PUT SPREADSHEETS IN UR SPREADSHEETS IN SPACE.
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Forranz
Malice.
Tentative Nature
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Posted - 2009.12.19 03:43:00 -
[6]
8. They open a really advanced spreadsheet, "CODE BROWN", and close it.
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Mella Elcus
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Posted - 2009.12.19 03:46:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Mella Elcus on 19/12/2009 03:54:09
Edited by: Mella Elcus on 19/12/2009 03:52:24
Originally by: Krathos Morpheus
Originally by: Brock Nelson
Couple of reasons, take your pick
1. They're lazy
2. They don't have Office
3. They're too lazy to download OpenOffice
4. They want to use the already existing super awesome spreadsheet like my research order management ss. /plug
5. Their ss skill sucks
6. They're still in high school where they haven't been taught how to do multiplication
7. They don't have fun with spreadsheets unless they come with pretty graphics and the shape of a ship.
8. Or maybe they just don't want to spend hours every week manually updating the prices just to find out they're actually getting a 10.2% profit when they thought they were only getting 10%.
I can understand why you would want a spreadsheet for production, since the production time and material amounts are more or less static, but why need one for trading?
It's only for cross region trading I can see how it could be slightly useful since you can't really watch prices in two regions at the same time, I've even tried it myself but I found it to be more painful than useful...
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Dretzle Omega
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.12.19 03:57:00 -
[8]
Did you come at this question just from normal corp/real life interaction?
Or is there a funny thread I should be reading? 
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stoicfaux
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Posted - 2009.12.19 04:22:00 -
[9]
Edited by: stoicfaux on 19/12/2009 04:22:15
- Perceived Learning Curve. When you open a spreadsheet, you're presented with a blank canvas with no obvious hint on what to do next.
- Need a reason to use a spreadsheet. Folks may be so turned off by doing math by hand, that they never make the connection that spreadsheets can make tedious math really easy.
- Ignorance. How many normal people actually know what you can do with a spreadsheet?
- Spreadsheets suck for all but the most basic cases. Inputting formulas can get really ugly since you only have one line. (Think edline.) Debugging a spreadsheet can be horrific. Understanding side effects such as rounding, the effects that cut'n'paste have on data blocks, etc., can make complicated spreadsheets really painful to create and, more importantly, maintain. As a programmer, oftentimes it's easier to write a quick perl script to do some calculations instead of using a spreadsheet. Subroutines and user GUIs are poorly implemented in spreadsheets.
Don't get me wrong, spreadsheets can be very powerful tools. However, the interface can really hold them back.
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"Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you!
-- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Nietzsche, and PvP" |
Cista2
Jita Direct Sale
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Posted - 2009.12.19 07:28:00 -
[10]
It's funny, I have used spreadsheets every day of my professional life, and I don't use it for trading purposes in Eve (only for keeping records of clients, stock and investors).
One look at the items market prices and price history and I know all that I need. I do believe that some people think using a spreadsheet gives them an edge in understanding the market, well bless them lol.
Even when I used to do regional trading I did not use a spreadsheet for that, I preferred having a piece of paper with data on the few key items lying next to my pc.
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Buy / sell Jidsale shares here |
Kaylee Juuna
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Posted - 2009.12.19 07:29:00 -
[11]
Originally by: stoicfaux
- Spreadsheets suck for all but the most basic cases. Inputting formulas can get really ugly since you only have one line. (Think edline.) Debugging a spreadsheet can be horrific. Understanding side effects such as rounding, the effects that cut'n'paste have on data blocks, etc., can make complicated spreadsheets really painful to create and, more importantly, maintain. As a programmer, oftentimes it's easier to write a quick perl script to do some calculations instead of using a spreadsheet. Subroutines and user GUIs are poorly implemented in spreadsheets.
That's a very good point. A simple program, in the long run, would be better than a spreadsheet, but the spreadsheet can be set up quite a bit faster.
I need to learn useful programming languages. Java =/= useful.
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Rubenson
The Tuskers
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Posted - 2009.12.19 10:50:00 -
[12]
Not to mention the realy fast browser now and using google docs to import the sheet and edit it ingame. win
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clixoras
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Posted - 2009.12.19 12:26:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Cista2
It's funny, I have used spreadsheets every day of my professional life, and I don't use it for trading purposes in Eve (only for keeping records of clients, stock and investors).
Dito, i even want to use a ss but it's not necessary as all the API tools are there (only downside if the API's not working).
Daily activities - Eve Trader
In depth overview - EMMA
Regional trading - EVE market scanner
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Hoodat Bee
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Posted - 2009.12.19 13:29:00 -
[14]
Accounting classes teach you how to use Excel. Statistics classes teach you why Excel is bad.
And real life teaches you to just wing it.
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.12.19 13:36:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Hoodat Bee
Statistics classes teach you why Excel is bad.
Oh, great statistics guru, would you please enlighten us as to why Excel is bad ?
_
We are recruiting | Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper |
Claire Voyant
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Posted - 2009.12.19 13:47:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Hoodat Bee
Statistics classes teach you why Excel is bad.
Oh, great statistics guru, would you please enlighten us as to why Excel is bad ?
I think it is because it uses an "incorrect" calculation of standard deviation, dividing by n instead of n-1. However, both calculations have their uses.
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Vahdrok Nyrus
OX Syndicate Shipyards
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Posted - 2009.12.19 14:23:00 -
[17]
Yo dawg...
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KaarBaak
Minmatar
Mindstar Technology
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Posted - 2009.12.19 15:51:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Kaylee Juuna
Short story: I started trading a few weeks ago. Never touched a spreadsheet in my life. In a few hours I was able to create a spreadsheet that gave me all the information I needed. Information like, profit/unit, profit margin, etc. Aka, simple multiplication and division functions.
Now, you may say "Big deal, I can too." But I'm not talking the MD community, I'm talking all the noobs that come here, and people in general.
Multiplication and division functions aren't that hard to figure out. But some people just don't get spreadsheets.
Why is that, MD?
I guess the real question is whether your spreadsheet is really working correctly and giving accurate data. I've seen many posted that have incorrect formulas and bad logic. Even though their author claims it "does what they need it to do" and "they've made a bazillion isk in a week using it, so it doesn't matter if it's correct."
The true test: post your spreadsheet and let some of the gurus here exam in it for flaws.
KB
KB
My blogs:
Tastes Like Chicken
EvE Meta-Gaming |
Luaren Avidius
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Posted - 2009.12.19 17:40:00 -
[19]
Ever since I started doing stuff with markets and industry in eve I have been steadily been getting more and more proficient with spreadsheets and the main sheet I use has been getting more and more complex.
Eventually I'm going to start programming some of my own API apps.
Also, I took a few accounting classes for my major last year and aced them. I credit eve and the market for giving me useful references for a lot of the stuff I saw in that class. In addition, I got a lot of stuff I actually can use out of those classes to make my eve business run better. Win, win.
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flakeys
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2009.12.19 18:11:00 -
[20]
Never run a spreadsheet , allways had verry good profits.You do not NEED it.
Helpfull yes....
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Roguehalo
Caldari
Kimoto Innovations
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Posted - 2009.12.19 18:20:00 -
[21]
What's a spreadsheet?
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Kaylee Juuna
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Posted - 2009.12.19 18:42:00 -
[22]
Originally by: KaarBaak
The true test: post your spreadsheet and let some of the gurus here exam in it for flaws.
Are you saying me, personally, or people in general? I'd be really embarrassed if my spreadsheet had flaws; all it does is tell me the refine value, maximum buy price, and... well, that's about it.
Originally by: flakeys
Never run a spreadsheet , allways had verry good profits.You do not NEED it.
Helpfull yes....
Absolutely agreed. I just feel cooler when I can open a spreadsheet and see what's going on quickly, instead of writing stuff down on a sheet of paper.
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Halcyon Ingenium
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Posted - 2009.12.19 18:48:00 -
[23]
Laziness. I don't have the time to do data entry for all the things I watch, use, buy/sell, manufacture. Just eyeballing it tells me if I'm making a profit, maximum efficiency would be nice, but I have real life, and only real cash could incentivize me to do that much work for a market analysis.
__________
I'm just an ordinary Caldari trying to turn an ISK. What's wrong with that? |
small chimp
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Posted - 2009.12.19 20:26:00 -
[24]
why don't you use eve mentat for cross region trading planning?
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Tau Cabalander
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.12.19 20:47:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 19/12/2009 20:48:40
I have MS Office for my laptop... never bothered to install it though. Paid extra for it too.
When I started playing EVE, I did need a spreadsheet, so I installed the FREE OpenOffice which is Java based so it runs on almost any machine.
I don't always update my spreadsheets, but I do when I've noticed prices have changed outside my comfort zone.
The best part of my spreadsheets is they present the info I need in the way I want it. I've never liked using other people spreadsheets.
I have minimal spreadsheet using skills. The fanciest I get is sum(RowX:RowY). It ain't that tough.
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Mme Pinkerton
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.12.19 21:07:00 -
[26]
I generally dislike spreadsheets - it's a pain to hook them up to the EVE API or get eve-central data with them,
I have a few custom queries on the EMMA DB which do the job pretty well for me.
(I don't like the thought of using 5 different programs for the analysis of trading logs, so I just pull all
info into EMMA - accessing the EMMA DB via SQL Server Management Studio allows you to write queries
relatively hassle-free and the functionality of tools like EVE Trader can be easily replicated in a few lines
of SQL.
offtopic: This also as a tip to new auditors: develop your own datamining scripts on top of one of the existing
applications; look up old posts from Kazzac for inspiration...)
However, I use Akita's "EVE Master Sheet" (it's a monster, but works very well  ) for planning my (T1) production.
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Teavan
First CityWide Change Bank
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Posted - 2009.12.19 21:30:00 -
[27]
The biggest reason, in my opinion, is inputting prices by hand.
Anyone who is sick of that will eventually also learn about databases, which blow away spreadsheets, in my opinion.
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stoicfaux
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Posted - 2009.12.19 21:48:00 -
[28]
Edited by: stoicfaux on 19/12/2009 21:48:52
Originally by: Teavan
The biggest reason, in my opinion, is inputting prices by hand.
Anyone who is sick of that will eventually also learn about databases, which blow away spreadsheets, in my opinion.
Spreadsheets can query databases (and csv text files,) and you can normally press the refresh option to re-read the latest data. However, spreadsheets can be very limited in the amount of data they can contain, even when pulling from a database (there's a max row limit to spreadsheets.) OTOH, most databases have report wizards which can do a lot of the same/basic calculations that spreadsheets can do, often with less hassle.
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"Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you!
-- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Nietzsche, and PvP" |
Bret Caliaro
Fortuna inc.
Leather Rose Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.12.19 23:01:00 -
[29]
because they burn my eyes!
I enjoy making a profit but spreadsheets take away from that fun, I will read them and am happy to help someone with their spreadsheets, but I wont make one (unless it's really necessary).
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I'm a so very lazy, so I play smart not hard. |
incedius
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Posted - 2009.12.21 13:55:00 -
[30]
I always thought spreadsheets was something you did with a lady.
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