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Meeko Atari
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Posted - 2009.12.22 16:30:00 -
[31]
Originally by: markedfordeletion
Originally by: Meeko Atari
Originally by: markedfordeletion Soo much whining.. They are good especially large rails on caldari rokh. What do you want? Super damage, super range, super tracking all in one place? I think they are good as they are.. You need middle range? go for the other turrets types...
That sounds suspiciously Ammar
Well, i am caldari/gallente trained and i am happy with it. Among my chars i can use them all though, and each has to have weak and strong points, otherwise we'll be back into the "one ship for all" era, which is not good
I think you missed my point...
What I highlighted in your post is what the Ammar currently have over all other turret users, so in effect yes there is an option to "have it all" I would like see Rails be able to hit past the 249K range, and like to see blasters melt your face if they get in range.
As things are now, if you want the best turrets in game...Only one system offers that and that is wrong in my opinion.
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Juliette DuBois
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Posted - 2009.12.22 17:04:00 -
[32]
Locking range cap is limiting rails on Rokh, that¦s for sure.
Large rails have decent dps and tracking and good range if fitted on bonused platform. Alpha is indeed super weak but rate of fire is good as long as you can hold your cap. So very much geared towards sustained encounters.
If you actually go and use EFT and compare you will see that 8 rails (say you were using hyperion as a base) has pretty much same dps as 8 gun apoc or 8 gun mael. Something like 401/401/395 dps. It could actually be said that dps is almost non-factor when considering what sniper ship is best.
Or comparing tempest and mega you'll notice that glass-jaw tempest has bit of a dps advantage [19] at closer ranges and good alpha, but less effective range, poor tracking and less EHP.
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Baneken
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.12.22 17:11:00 -
[33]
Hmm isn't 250km the range of your 'grid' in each directions ? So complaining about not being able to target anything beyond 249km propably has nothing to do with hybrids anyway considering that you shouldn't normally 'see' objects beyond 250km anyway unless under special circumstancies ...
http://keithneilson.co.uk/grid-fu-advanced-tactics-and-strategy/
Anyway I agree that hybrids need some love be it in PvE or PvP.
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Arrador
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Posted - 2009.12.22 19:58:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Arrador on 22/12/2009 20:00:43 TL;DR - Hybrids are Either out DPS'd or out ranged. rather significantly on both sides. Fix by removing close range T2 ammo penalties for both Rails & Blasters
The only reasons rails Appear to have good tracking, is due to their massive range on bonused platforms. We can't match the DPS of beam lasers, and have less tracking then mega beams and tachs (and who uses tachs for pvp?) we only have .00062 increase of tracking speed over 1400 Howitzers, but can't match the Alpha.
Lets Run some numbers. All skills lvl V. No implants. Lets compare all Tier 3 Battleships - Except the Rokh. The reasons for this is we are looking at base DPS/Volley. These will also strictly be sniper setups, using longrange t2 ammo, and 3 weapon upgrades in lows. Abbadon is using Mega beams - Forgive my inexperience, but its my understanding that due to the size of tach's they are primarily a PVE weapon. I could add them, but I suspect they will only skew the results more.
Hyperion - Using this ship as it fits 8 guns & 5% damage bonus. Keeps the base platform similar 401DPS/2110 Volley - 130km Optimal
Maelstrom 395DPS/6552 Volley - 108km Optimal
Abaddon 465DPS/2302 Volley - 108km Optimal
The numbers speak for themselves. Rails are out DPS'ed, and out volleyed. A single tracking computer II with optimal range script raises the 108km optimal to 124km optimal. A Fleet of Maelstrom's are Alpha'ing everything, and a Fleet of Abaddon's are Tracking and out DPS'ing everything.
So as Fleet snipers, Rails just barely have a range advantage. Honestly, if I were an FC, I'd want a fleet of Maelstroms. Alpha > DPS when it comes to large fleet battles. plus Explosive/Kin > EM/Thermal against the majority of Armor tanking ships out there.
Now for some Variety, lets look at medium range engagements, where amarr is the FOTM. This, if you ask me, is where rails, with an increase in tracking could become more versatile and add another dimension to the game. If you search for the thread where someone asks why Amarr became FOTM, there is a post in there that explains one of the effects of the speed nerf, engagement distances changed. It made sense to me.
Abaddon with Mega pulses and Scorch. 730DPS/3165 Volley - 45km Optimal. Very Very impressive.
Maelstrom - 800 700DPS/2275 volley - 6km Optimal + falloff
Hyperion 852DPS/3693 Volley - 11km Optimal
Rokh 681DPS/2954 Vollety - 17km Optimal
Nothing can "touch" the Abaddon. Again, this is pure theory-craft. Nobody starts at set distances, counts to 3, turns around and open fires. But the numbers are enlightening. Amarr can maintain range and out DPS & volley 2/3 of the competition. Perhaps you are getting an Idea of why Amarr are FOTM. Now eve is all about "adapt or die". So, instead of bandwagonning the Amarr ships, I'm going to see if I can use the ships I'm currently trained for (Caldari/Gallente hybrid platforms).
Lets see, Rails are long range, and can equip short range ammo. I wonder if that will put me close to the Amarr pulse+scorch range.
Hyperion - 425mm Rails + Caldari Navy AM 691DPS/3640 Vollety - 36km optimal - This is close, but the abaddon has 3x the tracking even with the -25% tracking penalty of scorch.
Rokh - 425MM + caldari Navy AM 553DPS/2912 Volley + 54km Optimal - I've got greater range, but lackluster DPS, and no more grid to fit a tank/propulsion
Rokh - 425MM + Javelin 561DPS/2954 volley + 27km Optimal - Who the hell would use this? Problems of grid + speed (moving at base 48m/s)
This is why the hybrid people are asking for a change. I'd like to adapt without bandwagonning. But my platform is unable to compete. Either overhaul the hybrids completely - akin to what you did with projectiles - or perhaps revisit our close range ammo and actually make it useful. Remove our tracking penalties + Speed penalties, ROF penalties. I feel that is the simplest manner to change hybrids and make them stand out in their niche and make people want to fly them.
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Liang Nuren
The Lollypop Factory
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Posted - 2009.12.22 20:09:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Arrador and who uses tachs for pvp?
Just lost all credibility.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Arrador
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Posted - 2009.12.22 20:25:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Arrador on 22/12/2009 20:26:25
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Arrador and who uses tachs for pvp?
Just lost all credibility.
-Liang
Sorry to displease you. Did you at least read/view and contemplate the numbers I ran? I qualified my statement and opinion over tachs later on in the post. But just for you - here's an abaddon fit with tachs
Abbaddon - Tachs w/ Aurora 502DPS/3453 Volley - 119km Optimal.
Like I said in my post, merely skews the chart further. Further out DPS's the rest of the battleships and is in Maelstrom's neighborhood of Alpha strike, and is within spitting distance of the hype's optimal.
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Liang Nuren
The Lollypop Factory
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Posted - 2009.12.22 20:29:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Arrador
Sorry to displease you. Did you at least read/view and contemplate the numbers I ran? I qualified my statement and opinion over tachs later on in the post. But just for you - here's an abaddon fit with tachs
Abbaddon - Tachs w/ Aurora 502DPS/3453 Volley - 119km Optimal.
Like I said in my post, merely skews the chart further. Further out DPS's the rest of the battleships and is in Maelstrom's neighborhood of Alpha strike.
I did actually read your post. I even had a much longer post outlining some tips for how to whine for a boost. But the whole "who uses tachs" thing really got to me. If you don't know enough about the game to know the answer to that question, you likely don't have enough knowledge of the game to not deal damage to your cause instead of furthering it.
However, yes, Tachs are better than Rails for certain tasks. However, the Rails will perform much better over the course of the battle (cap use and damage types). Also, using "base" statistics is kinda a useless task. You want to use realistic setups to expose specific weaknesses - as such, you would want to compare fleet snipers at 170km and damage dealers at some proposed range.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Arrador
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Posted - 2009.12.22 20:49:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Arrador
Sorry to displease you. Did you at least read/view and contemplate the numbers I ran? I qualified my statement and opinion over tachs later on in the post. But just for you - here's an abaddon fit with tachs
Abbaddon - Tachs w/ Aurora 502DPS/3453 Volley - 119km Optimal.
Like I said in my post, merely skews the chart further. Further out DPS's the rest of the battleships and is in Maelstrom's neighborhood of Alpha strike.
I did actually read your post. I even had a much longer post outlining some tips for how to whine for a boost. But the whole "who uses tachs" thing really got to me. If you don't know enough about the game to know the answer to that question, you likely don't have enough knowledge of the game to not deal damage to your cause instead of furthering it.
However, yes, Tachs are better than Rails for certain tasks. However, the Rails will perform much better over the course of the battle (cap use and damage types). Also, using "base" statistics is kinda a useless task. You want to use realistic setups to expose specific weaknesses - as such, you would want to compare fleet snipers at 170km and damage dealers at some proposed range.
-Liang
Forgive me, I fly Hybrid boats - not lasers. I read this forums to get an idea of how other people fly/fit their ships. I've not played against everyone in the game, so my empirical knowledge is quite lacking.
That said. I'd still enjoy reading what you have to say, along with your test beds/setups.
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Liang Nuren
The Lollypop Factory
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Posted - 2009.12.22 20:51:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Arrador
Forgive me, I fly Hybrid boats - not lasers. I read this forums to get an idea of how other people fly/fit their ships. I've not played against everyone in the game, so my empirical knowledge is quite lacking.
That said. I'd still enjoy reading what you have to say, along with your test beds/setups.
Hmmm... I'll at least look into it. I've got 2 weeks off starting Wednesday, so I've got some time. I was planning on finishing my Marauder/Faction BS comparison (much like my previous one, but with much better methods and a better understanding of the game).
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
london
Gallente Dark-Rising IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.22 20:55:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Hmmm... I'll at least look into it. I've got 2 weeks off starting Wednesday, so I've got some time. I was planning on finishing my Marauder/Faction BS comparison (much like my previous one, but with much better methods and a better understanding of the game).
-Liang
Where do you post these comparisons? Do you have a link to your last one?
Cheers
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nakKEDK
Gallente Night Riders with AKs
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Posted - 2009.12.22 20:57:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Seishi Maru
Rails are much easier to fit than 1400mm and tachyons. Those are their main advantages.
This sums your clue up
k
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Liang Nuren
The Lollypop Factory
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Posted - 2009.12.22 21:00:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 22/12/2009 21:00:48
Originally by: london
Where do you post these comparisons? Do you have a link to your last one?
Cheers
I post them on Eve-O. However, it was a long time ago (when Marauders first came out) and the game has changed a lot IMO.
-Liang
Ed: Also, I posted the graphs for the previous comparison on a web server (not eve-files), and they have since been deleted (by me). I don't have a copy of the old graphs. They were wrong anyway, since they didn't take hit quality into account, so no big loss. ;-) -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Proxyyyy
Caldari The Tuskers
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Posted - 2009.12.22 21:17:00 -
[43]
Decrease cap usage of hybrids by 70%, decrease the grid usage of hybrids by 50%, decrease the Thermal damage of short range ammo, increase the kinectic damage of short range ammo, and also Increase the thermal damage of long range ammo...
My two cents!!!
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Liang Nuren
The Lollypop Factory
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Posted - 2009.12.22 21:25:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Proxyyyy decrease the grid usage of hybrids by 50%
Wherever Proxyyyy posts... There is some really... ****ing bad suggestions...
;-)
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Meeko Atari
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Posted - 2009.12.22 21:28:00 -
[45]
Originally by: nakKEDK
Originally by: Seishi Maru
Rails are much easier to fit than 1400mm and tachyons. Those are their main advantages.
This sums your clue up
Hmm.. they do fit nicely on a Hyperion but it does have the active tank bonus that will gimp the fit and not so well on a Rokh still needs a grid module ( just like all the other BS's when fitting the largest tier guns )
Conclusion : Rails do not "fit" easier on the ships they were intended to be used on. They are just as hard to fit as all the other races largest tier guns, making you ignore a ship bonus or setting up a pure paper tank sniper.
I do not see the "fitting requirements" as an advantage to Rails in this case
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Proxyyyy
Caldari The Tuskers
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Posted - 2009.12.22 21:30:00 -
[46]
My post was an attempt at a joke! i guess it didnt go over well = / im pretty sure i have been saying for awhile now that all weapon systems are balanced...
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Liang Nuren
The Lollypop Factory
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Posted - 2009.12.22 21:36:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Proxyyyy My post was an attempt at a joke! i guess it didnt go over well = / im pretty sure i have been saying for awhile now that all weapon systems are balanced...
LOL - come on, so was mine. I even made an acrostic! Anyway, I agree... for long range turrets, I think things are largely balanced. I mean, I'll take a look at it, but I don't expect to find anything really drastic really wrong. Maybe a bit more damage for blasters (enough to give them a both a raw and effective damage advantage anywhere under 10km at the minimum!).
Meh, it's hardly worth fighting over though. Even if I spotted a really obvious glaring flaw in the game, I'm not sure I have the stamina to fight for fixing it after all the Epic Whinage from the projectile boosts.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Jacob Stov
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Posted - 2009.12.22 21:42:00 -
[48]
I think another issue with hybrid guns is they have to be somehow balanced for both Caldari and Gallente ships. I'm pretty sure I would want a different buff then people flying Gallente ships.
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london
Gallente Dark-Rising IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.22 21:46:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
I post them on Eve-O. However, it was a long time ago (when Marauders first came out) and the game has changed a lot IMO...
Cool, thanks.
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Xavier Maroquin
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Posted - 2009.12.22 23:58:00 -
[50]
I like this, they seem underused and underpowered, some kind of buff would be nice...Never seen a PVP fit with Rails...
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Lili Lu
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Posted - 2009.12.23 01:26:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Xavier Maroquin I like this, they seem underused and underpowered, some kind of buff would be nice...Never seen a PVP fit with Rails...
If I am not catching the sarcasm then I apologise. Anyway, plenty of Megas (with rails) vying for top of killmails with Amarr ships in 0.0 fleet fights. Minmatar bringing up the rear, but now has alpha so meh. Things are more or less balanced. It's not so much the weapons that account for differences atm as it is the individual ship bonuses.
Imo if anything needs to be done it would be to review/rearrange ship bonuses. Amarr got addressed recently with Apoc bonus changes and the base armor resist adjustment (over adjustment imo). As far as Caldari tier 2, the Raven, well any change to it would create many cries from PVEers. So change maybe the Tempest and maybe the Mega's bonuses or stats, and/or increase the base armor em resist on all ships to 55%. Actually, a change to base armor em resist might be enough. This would bring the Amarr ships down a little on killmails and the other two up. Some might whine at this but frankly it would be preferrable to some misguided renerf on lasers.
Caldari has the Rokh sitting out there with the best gun range. It is a tier 3 BS and thus did not suffer the neglect of the older tier 2 Minmatar and Gallente ships. Problem with the Rokh's easy integration into current fleets is that most fleet fights involve armor rr, because by the time the request for help is broadcasted and the friendlies lock and start repping a shield tank that tank might already be gone (especially with the larger fleet fights). Conversely the armor tank has the benefit of a shield to soak some of the damage before the remote-repping kicks in. That and shield extenders bloating already bloated sig radii doesn't help Maels, Rokhs, and Ravens with bomb squads becoming fotm.
Wings of rr shield tankers could still be suffering underutilization though. Forming fleets can be hectic sometimes. Decreeing that the fleet shall be armor rr BS, and dispensing with a shield wing led by a vulture is an easy solution to overloaded FC's. Sad that we don't see more shield rr wings, they are possible, just not as easy, and the fitting reqs do not rule them out despite the popular complaints.
Anyway, atm the gun balance is about as good as it's gonna get. Rails have good dps due to rof. And they might regularly own or share top damage dealer spot again with a little (5%) re-adjustment to base armor em resist.
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Xavier Maroquin
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Posted - 2009.12.23 02:54:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Xavier Maroquin on 23/12/2009 03:04:41
Originally by: Lili Lu
Originally by: Xavier Maroquin I like this, they seem underused and underpowered, some kind of buff would be nice...Never seen a PVP fit with Rails...
If I am not catching the sarcasm then I apologise. Anyway, plenty of Megas (with rails) vying for top of killmails with Amarr ships in 0.0 fleet fights. Minmatar bringing up the rear, but now has alpha so meh. Things are more or less balanced. It's not so much the weapons that account for differences atm as it is the individual ship bonuses.
Imo if anything needs to be done it would be to review/rearrange ship bonuses. Amarr got addressed recently with Apoc bonus changes and the base armor resist adjustment (over adjustment imo). As far as Caldari tier 2, the Raven, well any change to it would create many cries from PVEers. So change maybe the Tempest and maybe the Mega's bonuses or stats, and/or increase the base armor em resist on all ships to 55%. Actually, a change to base armor em resist might be enough. This would bring the Amarr ships down a little on killmails and the other two up. Some might whine at this but frankly it would be preferrable to some misguided renerf on lasers.
Caldari has the Rokh sitting out there with the best gun range. It is a tier 3 BS and thus did not suffer the neglect of the older tier 2 Minmatar and Gallente ships. Problem with the Rokh's easy integration into current fleets is that most fleet fights involve armor rr, because by the time the request for help is broadcasted and the friendlies lock and start repping a shield tank that tank might already be gone (especially with the larger fleet fights). Conversely the armor tank has the benefit of a shield to soak some of the damage before the remote-repping kicks in. That and shield extenders bloating already bloated sig radii doesn't help Maels, Rokhs, and Ravens with bomb squads becoming fotm.
Wings of rr shield tankers could still be suffering underutilization though. Forming fleets can be hectic sometimes. Decreeing that the fleet shall be armor rr BS, and dispensing with a shield wing led by a vulture is an easy solution to overloaded FC's. Sad that we don't see more shield rr wings, they are possible, just not as easy, and the fitting reqs do not rule them out despite the popular complaints.
Anyway, atm the gun balance is about as good as it's gonna get. Rails have good dps due to rof. And they might regularly own or share top damage dealer spot again with a little (5%) re-adjustment to base armor em resist.
I was serious... I haven't ever seen a PVP fit (Solo/Gang) which uses rails, or even a mission fit for that matter. In a fleet battle I understand the difference as in scale, so longer range is required, however rails are still underused and underpowered. (Sees dream of fleet battle where everyone has 2km blasters and MWD's)
Perhaps the problem is in scale... The large rails are fine, but frig and cruiser ones are lacking. I think blasters should be fast firing but weak, while rails are slow firing but very high damage.
Another thought, because of the nature of a "rail gun", perhaps some bonus to armor damage. Naturally, blasters would be the opposite, getting a bonus to shield damage. (Particles good against shields, projectiles good against armor.) This would provide some interesting counters, a shield tanked ship would be weak to the blasters, and an armor tanked ship could get ripped apart by the rails, but once you hit the "weakness" area, you would lose a lot of DPS.
Also, the minimum range of railguns is rather lacking. You can still theoretically hit someone with a railgun from 2 feet away, but obviously it would be harder due to low tracking, and the damage would be much greater. You would then see rail ships with a crapload of tracking enhancers trying to make the best of the situation,
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Liang Nuren
The Lollypop Factory
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Posted - 2009.12.23 03:36:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Xavier Maroquin I was serious... I haven't ever seen a PVP fit (Solo/Gang) which uses rails, or even a mission fit for that matter. In a fleet battle I understand the difference as in scale, so longer range is required, however rails are still underused and underpowered.
You have a very funny definition of "underused and underpowered". THE Sentry Domi fit has 5 350mm rails. THE Rokh mission fit has 8 425s. Mega mission fits have 7 425s, Hype mission fits have 8 350s.
Rail Deimos/Eagle/Moa/Ferox/Brutix are all very common, depending on fleet type. Hell, I've even fit rails to my Ishtar and Vexor (frequently, at that). Rail Harpies, and RailRanis and Rail Rail Rail.
Rail fits are not hard to find unless you're deliberately ignoring them.
Quote: (Sees dream of fleet battle where everyone has 2km blasters and MWD's)
Keep dreaming - because things like that haven't been true in years.
Quote: Perhaps the problem is in scale... The large rails are fine, but frig and cruiser ones are lacking. I think blasters should be fast firing but weak, while rails are slow firing but very high damage.
Thank you for describing projectiles for us, now can you describe rails?
Quote: Also, the minimum range of railguns is rather lacking.
Can you please go learn how Eve works before making ridiculous statements?
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Arrador
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Posted - 2009.12.23 03:46:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Quote: Also, the minimum range of railguns is rather lacking.
Can you please go learn how Eve works before making ridiculous statements?
-Liang
see - I wasn't so bad in comparison :P
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Xavier Maroquin
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Posted - 2009.12.23 03:46:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Xavier Maroquin I was serious... I haven't ever seen a PVP fit (Solo/Gang) which uses rails, or even a mission fit for that matter. In a fleet battle I understand the difference as in scale, so longer range is required, however rails are still underused and underpowered.
You have a very funny definition of "underused and underpowered". THE Sentry Domi fit has 5 350mm rails. THE Rokh mission fit has 8 425s. Mega mission fits have 7 425s, Hype mission fits have 8 350s.
Rail Deimos/Eagle/Moa/Ferox/Brutix are all very common, depending on fleet type. Hell, I've even fit rails to my Ishtar and Vexor (frequently, at that). Rail Harpies, and RailRanis and Rail Rail Rail.
Rail fits are not hard to find unless you're deliberately ignoring them.
Quote: (Sees dream of fleet battle where everyone has 2km blasters and MWD's)
Keep dreaming - because things like that haven't been true in years.
Quote: Perhaps the problem is in scale... The large rails are fine, but frig and cruiser ones are lacking. I think blasters should be fast firing but weak, while rails are slow firing but very high damage.
Thank you for describing projectiles for us, now can you describe rails?
Quote: Also, the minimum range of railguns is rather lacking.
Can you please go learn how Eve works before making ridiculous statements?
-Liang
I dont know where you get your fits.... Its called a dream, and meant to be funny.... And how are projectiles and rails different? Way to only use the first sentence.... OUT OF CONTEXT QUOTING FTW!
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Battlingbean
Heaven's Gate The Drift.
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Posted - 2009.12.23 06:36:00 -
[56]
Agreed.
The whole point of sniping is one shot one kill. Not many weak shots, enemy runs away. But if alpha is increased then too much like projectiles so not sure how to fix.
However, something should be done. (Change the moa model)
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Liang Nuren
The Lollypop Factory
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Posted - 2009.12.23 08:03:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Xavier Maroquin I dont know where you get your fits....
Generally speaking, by reading threads that say "How would I fit a ...."
Quote: And how are projectiles and rails different?
You asked to make rails high damage and slow firing and blasters fast firing low damage and chews through the ammo. Sans cap use, that's an exact definition of projectiles. So the ultimate result is either you carbon copy projectiles or one or the other becomes utterly obsolete.
And as for "how are they different" - well may I suggest you try flying with them and finding out? But here's a few things:
Rails have... - More tracking - More DPS - Locked damage types - More range
Artillery has: - No cap use - Variable damage types - More alpha
Quote: And whats up with you being the only disser on this?
Honestly, I wouldn't diss on it if you (pl) presented valid arguments for why rails need a boost. As it stands, things seem closely enough balanced that they're as likely to **** up game balance as fix it.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Naomi Knight
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.12.23 09:24:00 -
[58]
Sure if only weapon stats are taken into account
from 425mm rails vs 1400mm arties Rails have... - More tracking(by7% more) - More DPS(by 8%) - Locked damage types - More range( no not realy only more optimal by 20% and less falloff by 46%) and if you add in that now tracking comps/amplis give twice the falloff as optimal this range advantage is even less or makes projectiles better at deep in falloff -more cpu needed
Artillery has: - No cap use - Variable damage types - More alpha(288% more alpha) - clips run out much slower( only have to reload once while rails have to reload twice) - use much less ammo - more pg needed - more falloff
But if we look at actual rail ships vs arti ships this becomes much more in favour of matar , the same applies against amarr beam ships too. And for medium/small guns the lone optimal advantage becomes neglectable ,while the disadvantages are still there.
So pls stop comparing weapons vs weapons it makes little sense. And bring actual ships with fittings. Btw even by looking this arties vs rails rails needs a boost. Fixed dmg types+ cap use+****ty alpha arent worth the 7% tracking 8% dps advantage
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Liang Nuren
The Lollypop Factory
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Posted - 2009.12.23 09:35:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Naomi Knight So pls stop comparing weapons vs weapons it makes little sense.
Aye, I agree. I was comparing ships (Maelstrom vs Hype as a matter of fact).
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Tyfuz
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Posted - 2009.12.23 10:07:00 -
[60]
I played this game for some years now and use high skilled Caldari, Gallente and Minmatar. I agree with that the rail got some issue and its hard to understand what the real problem is but they dont feel ballanced with missiles or artillery. The T2 frig do not have a issue but the cruiser, BC or BS have issues. It might be hard to change falloff or tracking since that would give the T2 frigs to much boost but please decrease the cap usage on rail.
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