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new SISI patch(bad news for laser users)

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Earthan	Posted - 2004.11.17 11:03:00 - [91] Laser lovers plz stop saying you can only do em and thermal dmg, hybrid also are limited only to kinetic and thermal. Lasers are better for sheild tanking npc , hybrids for armour tanking. As for high cap usage , every other ammar ships got bonus to counter this so it doesnt really hurt the laser users. Its common for apoc users to show off saying they can run 2 armour reps and shoot lasers for a long time A megathron got no chance of doing it. Overall its a very good change , will at least a little restore balance to the force, the lasers are to powerfull atm , railsguns are behind and projectiles just suck big time far behind both i heard. Stars, stars like dust, all around me....
Earthan	Posted - 2004.11.17 11:03:00 - [92] Laser lovers plz stop saying you can only do em and thermal dmg, hybrid also are limited only to kinetic and thermal. Lasers are better for sheild tanking npc , hybrids for armour tanking. As for high cap usage , every other ammar ships got bonus to counter this so it doesnt really hurt the laser users. Its common for apoc users to show off saying they can run 2 armour reps and shoot lasers for a long time A megathron got no chance of doing it. Overall its a very good change , will at least a little restore balance to the force, the lasers are to powerfull atm , railsguns are behind and projectiles just suck big time far behind both i heard. Stars, stars like dust, all around me....
Shadowsword	Posted - 2004.11.17 12:13:00 - [93] Originally by: Klogger I'm so sick of people complaining that lasers only do 2 types of damage and that they suck against armor. THEY DONT SUCK AGAINST ARMOR!! Infact they work great against your avarage armor tanking bs rat. I agree. Even against tanked players, lasers usually are little more effective (unless the tanked player has also armored EM, which isn't often the case) than hybrids. The only problem I have with my megapulses when I'm hunting rats, is that the cruisers are harder to kill. For the high-end ones I'm often forced to finish them with small lasers when they get within 10km.
Shadowsword	Posted - 2004.11.17 12:13:00 - [94] Originally by: Klogger I'm so sick of people complaining that lasers only do 2 types of damage and that they suck against armor. THEY DONT SUCK AGAINST ARMOR!! Infact they work great against your avarage armor tanking bs rat. I agree. Even against tanked players, lasers usually are little more effective (unless the tanked player has also armored EM, which isn't often the case) than hybrids. The only problem I have with my megapulses when I'm hunting rats, is that the cruisers are harder to kill. For the high-end ones I'm often forced to finish them with small lasers when they get within 10km.
Riddari	Posted - 2004.11.17 13:07:00 - [95] I hope that volatility doesn't affect the QUALITY of the shots so that when I have just 1 round left to shoot I will do far less damage then when the crystal is brand new. That's something no ammunition or missile has and would seriously unbalance. ¼©¼ a history
Riddari	Posted - 2004.11.17 13:07:00 - [96] I hope that volatility doesn't affect the QUALITY of the shots so that when I have just 1 round left to shoot I will do far less damage then when the crystal is brand new. That's something no ammunition or missile has and would seriously unbalance. ¼©¼ a history
Ithildin	Posted - 2004.11.17 13:11:00 - [97] Not to mention that lasers track almost 50% better than their Railgun counterpart on a level 5 Megathron! (And yes, capacitor over time is better on level 5 Apoc with Megabeams than level 5 Megathron with 425mm Railguns. Damage isn't all that much better on Megathron, either.) -- If TC causes you discomfort that you feel is unwarranted or may be outside TC's current contract - contact me, please.
Ithildin	Posted - 2004.11.17 13:11:00 - [98] Not to mention that lasers track almost 50% better than their Railgun counterpart on a level 5 Megathron! (And yes, capacitor over time is better on level 5 Apoc with Megabeams than level 5 Megathron with 425mm Railguns. Damage isn't all that much better on Megathron, either.) -- If TC causes you discomfort that you feel is unwarranted or may be outside TC's current contract - contact me, please.
DeFood	Posted - 2004.11.17 13:23:00 - [99] I thought the lack of ammo was offset by large pg requirements, large CAP requirements, lower tracking, damage and range. Personally Ive retrained my gallente char to use amarr ships so I can use lasers. While my rax was nice, lugging ammo around became such a pain that I just couldnt take it any more. Now, my hangar is full of looted crystals. So, with 4000 shots per crystal it might be possible to mostly live off of the land. If this is implemented and it turns out that crystal drop rates are too low to sustain my ratting operations... well.
DeFood	Posted - 2004.11.17 13:23:00 - [100] I thought the lack of ammo was offset by large pg requirements, large CAP requirements, lower tracking, damage and range. Personally Ive retrained my gallente char to use amarr ships so I can use lasers. While my rax was nice, lugging ammo around became such a pain that I just couldnt take it any more. Now, my hangar is full of looted crystals. So, with 4000 shots per crystal it might be possible to mostly live off of the land. If this is implemented and it turns out that crystal drop rates are too low to sustain my ratting operations... well.

Shadowsword	Posted - 2004.11.17 13:29:00 - [101] If you need to buy a 400k (average) L crystal every 4000 hits, that makes 100 isk/hit, which is about 2 times the cost of the average L charge or L shell. For small/medium crystals there's not much difference when you compare the Isk/hit of each other guns. /me think that large crystals should get destroyed after 8000 hits.
Shadowsword	Posted - 2004.11.17 13:29:00 - [102] If you need to buy a 400k (average) L crystal every 4000 hits, that makes 100 isk/hit, which is about 2 times the cost of the average L charge or L shell. For small/medium crystals there's not much difference when you compare the Isk/hit of each other guns. /me think that large crystals should get destroyed after 8000 hits.
Bad'Boy	Posted - 2004.11.17 13:58:00 - [103] Originally by: Shadowsword If you need to buy a 400k (average) L crystal every 4000 hits, that makes 100 isk/hit, which is about 2 times the cost of the average L charge or L shell. For small/medium crystals there's not much difference when you compare the Isk/hit of each other guns. /me think that large crystals should get destroyed after 8000 hits. I want missile that can be used 8000 times B.A.D.B.O.Y.: Biomechanical Android Designed for Battle and Online Yelling "Bad Boys,Bad Boys, what you gonna do, what you gonna do when WE come for yoU"
Bad'Boy	Posted - 2004.11.17 13:58:00 - [104] Originally by: Shadowsword If you need to buy a 400k (average) L crystal every 4000 hits, that makes 100 isk/hit, which is about 2 times the cost of the average L charge or L shell. For small/medium crystals there's not much difference when you compare the Isk/hit of each other guns. /me think that large crystals should get destroyed after 8000 hits. I want missile that can be used 8000 times B.A.D.B.O.Y.: Biomechanical Android Designed for Battle and Online Yelling "Bad Boys,Bad Boys, what you gonna do, what you gonna do when WE come for yoU"
Bad'Boy	Posted - 2004.11.17 13:59:00 - [105] or even 10 times... B.A.D.B.O.Y.: Biomechanical Android Designed for Battle and Online Yelling "Bad Boys,Bad Boys, what you gonna do, what you gonna do when WE come for yoU"
Bad'Boy	Posted - 2004.11.17 13:59:00 - [106] or even 10 times... B.A.D.B.O.Y.: Biomechanical Android Designed for Battle and Online Yelling "Bad Boys,Bad Boys, what you gonna do, what you gonna do when WE come for yoU"
Amara Takani	Posted - 2004.11.17 15:56:00 - [107] Originally by: Shadowsword If you need to buy a 400k (average) L crystal every 4000 hits, that makes 100 isk/hit, which is about 2 times the cost of the average L charge or L shell. For small/medium crystals there's not much difference when you compare the Isk/hit of each other guns. /me think that large crystals should get destroyed after 8000 hits. Look @ EVE-I Object Explorer for Shiva http://www.eve-i.com/home/crowley_dev/page/page_objectexplorer.php There you will see that the Antimatter Charge L have a base price of 10k isk (thats for 100 shots you get out of building them). So 10k / 100 is also 100 isk per shot and thats the same
Amara Takani	Posted - 2004.11.17 15:56:00 - [108] Originally by: Shadowsword If you need to buy a 400k (average) L crystal every 4000 hits, that makes 100 isk/hit, which is about 2 times the cost of the average L charge or L shell. For small/medium crystals there's not much difference when you compare the Isk/hit of each other guns. /me think that large crystals should get destroyed after 8000 hits. Look @ EVE-I Object Explorer for Shiva http://www.eve-i.com/home/crowley_dev/page/page_objectexplorer.php There you will see that the Antimatter Charge L have a base price of 10k isk (thats for 100 shots you get out of building them). So 10k / 100 is also 100 isk per shot and thats the same
S'Daria	Posted - 2004.11.17 15:59:00 - [109] Ok a Crystal takes 1m3 of space. Has anyone considered the cost per shot yet compared to hybrids/projectiles? Besides a boon to manufacturers, what economic impacts will this have, if any? Lasers with a higher RoF will be effected more than those with lower RoF, or is there a fixed cost? Thanks.
S'Daria	Posted - 2004.11.17 15:59:00 - [110] Ok a Crystal takes 1m3 of space. Has anyone considered the cost per shot yet compared to hybrids/projectiles? Besides a boon to manufacturers, what economic impacts will this have, if any? Lasers with a higher RoF will be effected more than those with lower RoF, or is there a fixed cost? Thanks.

Arud	Posted - 2004.11.17 16:17:00 - [111] bad bad change if implemented I expected this to be on t2 crystals since it would help the player ecconomy but this is just creates unnecisery hassle for the players and doesnt benifit anyone and has nothing to do with balance
Arud	Posted - 2004.11.17 16:17:00 - [112] bad bad change if implemented I expected this to be on t2 crystals since it would help the player ecconomy but this is just creates unnecisery hassle for the players and doesnt benifit anyone and has nothing to do with balance
Shadowsword	Posted - 2004.11.17 20:11:00 - [113] Originally by: Amara Takani Originally by: Shadowsword If you need to buy a 400k (average) L crystal every 4000 hits, that makes 100 isk/hit, which is about 2 times the cost of the average L charge or L shell. For small/medium crystals there's not much difference when you compare the Isk/hit of each other guns. /me think that large crystals should get destroyed after 8000 hits. Look @ EVE-I Object Explorer for Shiva http://www.eve-i.com/home/crowley_dev/page/page_objectexplorer.php There you will see that the Antimatter Charge L have a base price of 10k isk (thats for 100 shots you get out of building them). So 10k / 100 is also 100 isk per shot and thats the same /me look on the market for average prices large hybrid charges between 20 and 60 isk/unit, 45-50 isk average large crystals between 390k and 170k, 300-350k average
Shadowsword	Posted - 2004.11.17 20:11:00 - [114] Originally by: Amara Takani Originally by: Shadowsword If you need to buy a 400k (average) L crystal every 4000 hits, that makes 100 isk/hit, which is about 2 times the cost of the average L charge or L shell. For small/medium crystals there's not much difference when you compare the Isk/hit of each other guns. /me think that large crystals should get destroyed after 8000 hits. Look @ EVE-I Object Explorer for Shiva http://www.eve-i.com/home/crowley_dev/page/page_objectexplorer.php There you will see that the Antimatter Charge L have a base price of 10k isk (thats for 100 shots you get out of building them). So 10k / 100 is also 100 isk per shot and thats the same /me look on the market for average prices large hybrid charges between 20 and 60 isk/unit, 45-50 isk average large crystals between 390k and 170k, 300-350k average
Drutort	Posted - 2004.11.17 20:28:00 - [115] i donÆt get ità you can hold X amount of any type of crystals that you wish in your cargoà try asking someone with ammo to try and hold all kinds of ammo in there cargoà ya rightà and then factor in the reload and cargo spaceà lets face it, this change doesnÆt hurt at allà it was probably expected to happen some dayà and that day might come very soon. And to those that complain about ROF lasersà go try to use fast ROF proj guns and tell me how much fun you have holding nothing but ammo in your cargoà support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo my MoBlog
Drutort	Posted - 2004.11.17 20:28:00 - [116] i donÆt get ità you can hold X amount of any type of crystals that you wish in your cargoà try asking someone with ammo to try and hold all kinds of ammo in there cargoà ya rightà and then factor in the reload and cargo spaceà lets face it, this change doesnÆt hurt at allà it was probably expected to happen some dayà and that day might come very soon. And to those that complain about ROF lasersà go try to use fast ROF proj guns and tell me how much fun you have holding nothing but ammo in your cargoà support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo my MoBlog
Hakera	Posted - 2004.11.17 20:40:00 - [117] Originally by: Amara Takani Originally by: Shadowsword If you need to buy a 400k (average) L crystal every 4000 hits, that makes 100 isk/hit, which is about 2 times the cost of the average L charge or L shell. For small/medium crystals there's not much difference when you compare the Isk/hit of each other guns. /me think that large crystals should get destroyed after 8000 hits. Look @ EVE-I Object Explorer for Shiva http://www.eve-i.com/home/crowley_dev/page/page_objectexplorer.php There you will see that the Antimatter Charge L have a base price of 10k isk (thats for 100 shots you get out of building them). So 10k / 100 is also 100 isk per shot and thats the same yes, the base prices are set by CCP and to be taken 'with a pinch of salt' when it comes to anything but ships and max insurance really. Use the market averages for stuff like ammo instead. Dumbledore - Eve-I.com
Hakera	Posted - 2004.11.17 20:40:00 - [118] Originally by: Amara Takani Originally by: Shadowsword If you need to buy a 400k (average) L crystal every 4000 hits, that makes 100 isk/hit, which is about 2 times the cost of the average L charge or L shell. For small/medium crystals there's not much difference when you compare the Isk/hit of each other guns. /me think that large crystals should get destroyed after 8000 hits. Look @ EVE-I Object Explorer for Shiva http://www.eve-i.com/home/crowley_dev/page/page_objectexplorer.php There you will see that the Antimatter Charge L have a base price of 10k isk (thats for 100 shots you get out of building them). So 10k / 100 is also 100 isk per shot and thats the same yes, the base prices are set by CCP and to be taken 'with a pinch of salt' when it comes to anything but ships and max insurance really. Use the market averages for stuff like ammo instead. Dumbledore - Eve-I.com
Earthan	Posted - 2004.11.17 20:42:00 - [119] Originally by: Drutort i donÆt get ità you can hold X amount of any type of crystals that you wish in your cargoà try asking someone with ammo to try and hold all kinds of ammo in there cargoà ya rightà and then factor in the reload and cargo spaceà lets face it, this change doesnÆt hurt at allà it was probably expected to happen some dayà and that day might come very soon. And to those that complain about ROF lasersà go try to use fast ROF proj guns and tell me how much fun you have holding nothing but ammo in your cargoà Exactly, i totally agree. Imho even with this change its far from balanced lasers are still to powerfull. Stars, stars like dust, all around me....
Earthan	Posted - 2004.11.17 20:42:00 - [120] Originally by: Drutort i donÆt get ità you can hold X amount of any type of crystals that you wish in your cargoà try asking someone with ammo to try and hold all kinds of ammo in there cargoà ya rightà and then factor in the reload and cargo spaceà lets face it, this change doesnÆt hurt at allà it was probably expected to happen some dayà and that day might come very soon. And to those that complain about ROF lasersà go try to use fast ROF proj guns and tell me how much fun you have holding nothing but ammo in your cargoà Exactly, i totally agree. Imho even with this change its far from balanced lasers are still to powerfull. Stars, stars like dust, all around me....



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