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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Depili
Blood Works Inc. Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2009.12.25 10:09:00 -
[31]
Yeah, the worst issues seem to be when jumping in to a gatecamp with bubbles on the gate. Usually then the grid takes ages to load (if it loads at all).
The bubbles prevent the e-warp to a safe off-grid from the gate that happens if you don't load the grid in X minutes...
You definedly need to test scenarios where a 150+ fleet is jumping in to 150+ fleet with drones and bubbles out at the other side of the gate.
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Lord EmBra
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Posted - 2009.12.25 14:32:00 -
[32]
Great that this is being tested, As many other have said, have fleet A jump into a fleet B via a stargate, fleet B should have drones out, bubbles up, the lot.
Also pay attention to module cycle time and how they increase extremely much.
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ElfeGER
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.12.25 14:35:00 -
[33]
hmm still no scripted clients by CCP?
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HIghlord Diamond
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Posted - 2009.12.25 15:08:00 -
[34]
I know it would probably be admitting failure for CCP, but couldn't they return to the pre-dominion code until this infamous lag monster is dealt with? Maybe keep the pirate arcs, new planets, stars, new faction BS but return to the old sov? That way we could even ruled out the new capital ships changes as source of the lag? It's all good and well that you guys want to release 2 expansions a year, but I've been lurking around these forums for a few days now and it seems to me like everyone that lives in 0.0 has to downsize their fleet and use new tactics because of a performance issue, when they aren't quitting the game or starting endless and pointless flame wars on the forums to burn off the frustration or abusing this game breaking lag to conquer new territory.
It would be better to return to old, reliable code that keep this going for weeks or even months me think. And an official apology to your player base would help.
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Lijhal
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.12.25 15:52:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Lijhal on 25/12/2009 15:55:24 you want to fight the lag ? here are 2 (maybe 3) solutions!
1) stop pumping server resources into jita for all those 4-4 huggers who are playing 0.01 isk wars and scam the daylong jita local ... just pointless
2) why do we have dmg modifiers with 9 diggits behind the comma ? i mean, whats the reason to have a 9,234856219875 dmg modifier onto my pulse lasers ? wouldnt 9,24 do the same ? your game is all about math, so lets reduce server calculations a lot by changing dmg modifiers into "real" numbers .. imagine the calculations a server have to do if 1000 ppl are hiting one target with those numbers....
3) change the dynamic grid meachnic into a static one! no more grid FU
your 0.0 player base is suffering under it ... give us more resourcces and no, i dont want to write a large fleet fight formula to get a response .... nuff said anymore
my 0.01 isk
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Nostradamous
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Posted - 2009.12.25 17:07:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Bobby Atlas Edited by: Bobby Atlas on 24/12/2009 18:18:12 So, in other words, we need to wait another 2 weeks for CCP to even begin testing these problems that everyone has reiterated exist since the patch deployment almost 3 weeks ago? Maybe it is just me but that is absolutely absurd.
This is just like the desync issues all over again, weeks of silence, finally acknowledgment of the issue with some testing next we will see couple of patches with "this should fix it" then 14 months of CCP doing nothing about it and it being a status quo in eve that desyncs are part-in-parcel of fleet engagements, followed finally by CCP actually getting there head out of there ass and somewhat-fixing it.
I agree, but with this all finally coming about around Christmas/new years, i cant talk too much Sh*t about them taking 2 weeks before the tests begin. Everyone wants to spend the holidays with family. luv u bobby
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Vultaras
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Posted - 2009.12.25 18:02:00 -
[37]
I think it's time CPP to buy new double power server and and of course redo something in EVE code....
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Bibbleibble
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Posted - 2009.12.25 20:56:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Vultaras I think it's time CPP to buy new double power server and and of course redo something in EVE code....
Now normally, not being a massive fleet fight player, I'd stay out of this thread and similar, but comments like this just annoy me.
CCP already has pretty much the best server equipment that you can get. I'm fairly certain (and can vaguely recall someone saying something about it...) that they have the most powerful computer cluster in the world dedicated to gaming, and this same computer cluster probably reaches the same level of processing power as many 'supercomputers'.
It is not as simple as 'OMG CCP U SUK!!!! CCP buy better hardware!!!!' as if it was, and they had the money, they would. There is no real reason why they wouldn't, and posts saying that they should buy better hardware ignore the vast majority of the reasons why lag is happening.
Anyhow, back on topic, I would suggest, like many other players here, that you do the testing in realistic situations. That means not starting with both fleets loaded on grid, and having them start firing on each other, but having one ready (i.e. already on grid, drones out etc...) and then having the other warp/jump in. That would seem to be where the worst problem is (the grid-loading bug), and then have a look at other sources of lag.
As I said, I'm almost totally free of any involvement in large fleet fights, but it seems to me, if you can't even load the grid, that is far worse than all but the worst module lag/whatever else.
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DS S
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Posted - 2009.12.25 20:57:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Vultaras I think it's time CPP to buy new double power server and and of course redo something in EVE code....
i laugh at guys like you, just last year, ccp put jita on its own server, and it still lags with 1200 people in loca;. 1200 is even the max, and its on its own FLASH server
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CommmanderInChief
Unorganised Crime
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Posted - 2009.12.25 21:40:00 -
[40]
Originally by: DS S
Originally by: Vultaras I think it's time CPP to buy new double power server and and of course redo something in EVE code....
i laugh at guys like you, just last year, ccp put jita on its own server, and it still lags with 1200 people in loca;. 1200 is even the max, and its on its own FLASH server
e To be honest you can never have too many servers/ram. However its more than likely now? that its down to code..and tbh can python cope with what ccp can achieve realistically? if not then its never gonna be ok..anyway will do my best to be there!!
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Atic Lanti
Silver Snake Enterprise Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.12.25 22:00:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Atic Lanti on 25/12/2009 22:00:04
Originally by: Ikathis sihtaki
Huh, guess i don't know what i am talking abbout, only been in several engagements since the upgrade, where there were over 100+ in local at least 90 of them on grid, and no lag. Little desynching, ships showing farther then they should be on overview but whatever, i dunno what i am sayin i guess. I coulud be like the you and just whine and cry about it even though we all know ccp is going to move at their own speed cuz guess what, that is what a business does, moves at its own speed that it can cope with. Remember they are business, they have procedure and what not they follow. but anyway, lets all run to the forumz and scream and shout and whine and yell like the children sitting behind me. No wonder ccp sits back and laughs at all you dumb folk.
Did I sell you that broken bluray player the other week? No wonder I haven't heard from you.
What are you on? If the forums aren't the best way to give feedback and have your customers screaming and whining like babies, I don't know what is. And you really think CCP sits back and laughs at people giving feedback? I don't know which is dumber? You thinking they do that and you still pay for the game or the one's paying for the game and believing that they do actually care about the communitys feedback?
I think it's CCP laughing at dummiecustomers like you. No offense. |
Meatypopsicle
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Posted - 2009.12.26 01:56:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Meatypopsicle on 26/12/2009 01:56:07
Originally by: Ikathis sihtaki
Huh, guess i don't know what i am talking abbout
Correct - STFU and you might learn something. 90 people is nothing. 300+ is something.
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Boomershoot
Caldari Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.12.26 03:35:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Boomershoot on 26/12/2009 03:35:20
Originally by: Lijhal 2) why do we have dmg modifiers with 9 diggits behind the comma ? i mean, whats the reason to have a 9,234856219875 dmg modifier onto my pulse lasers ? wouldnt 9,24 do the same ? your game is all about math, so lets reduce server calculations a lot by changing dmg modifiers into "real" numbers .. imagine the calculations a server have to do if 1000 ppl are hiting one target with those numbers....
This made my day, CCP is currently facepalming as we speak.
****ING TYPOS~
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Tony Ridalli
Gallente Gladiators of Rage Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.12.26 07:31:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Ikathis sihtaki Huh, guess i don't know what i am talking abbout, only been in several engagements since the upgrade, where there were over 100+ in local at least 90 of them on grid, and no lag. Little desynching, ships showing farther then they should be on overview but whatever, i dunno what i am sayin i guess. I coulud be like the you and just whine and cry about it even though we all know ccp is going to move at their own speed cuz guess what, that is what a business does, moves at its own speed that it can cope with. Remember they are business, they have procedure and what not they follow. but anyway, lets all run to the forumz and scream and shout and whine and yell like the children sitting behind me. No wonder ccp sits back and laughs at all you dumb folk.
Yes, you don't know what you're talking about, but thanks for the troll.
From my perspective, it seems you're the one who's forgotten it's a business. Know what that makes me? A paying customer. It is my right to ***** and complain, loudly if necessary, when the product I'm paying for does not meet even conservative expectations. A good business moves as fast as it possibly can to satisfy its customers, not on its own time, especially when its sold a broken product. Companies have suffered class-action lawsuits brought on by their customers over this kind of shoddy service.
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thisisnotmikaldrey
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Posted - 2009.12.26 10:53:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Boomershoot Edited by: Boomershoot on 26/12/2009 03:35:20
Originally by: Lijhal 2) why do we have dmg modifiers with 9 diggits behind the comma ? i mean, whats the reason to have a 9,234856219875 dmg modifier onto my pulse lasers ? wouldnt 9,24 do the same ? your game is all about math, so lets reduce server calculations a lot by changing dmg modifiers into "real" numbers .. imagine the calculations a server have to do if 1000 ppl are hiting one target with those numbers....
This made my day, CCP is currently facepalming as we speak.
****ING TYPOS~
i know bugger all about how much lag that code generates but this has always weirded me out but i gues its to to with how everything stacks and how your standings etc just never get to +10
IF they looked at the excessive number generation id also look at how standings are applied and take alliance standings as simply -10 -5 0 +5 +10 (hate/dislike/dont care/admire/love) or something on those lines .. . ive never userstood the reasons for generation the standings on a sliding scale when effectivly theres is only 5 varients.
also i would force corps to have alliance standings overrule are priority and even consider them not generating corp sttandings and have them all neutral and use alliance only. its a nightmare seeing mixed standings even when under the same badge :/ could also solve pos shooty shooty errors.
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Ban Doga
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Posted - 2009.12.26 13:50:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Ban Doga on 26/12/2009 13:50:45
Originally by: thisisnotmikaldrey
Originally by: Boomershoot Edited by: Boomershoot on 26/12/2009 03:35:20
Originally by: Lijhal 2) why do we have dmg modifiers with 9 diggits behind the comma ? i mean, whats the reason to have a 9,234856219875 dmg modifier onto my pulse lasers ? wouldnt 9,24 do the same ? your game is all about math, so lets reduce server calculations a lot by changing dmg modifiers into "real" numbers .. imagine the calculations a server have to do if 1000 ppl are hiting one target with those numbers....
This made my day, CCP is currently facepalming as we speak.
****ING TYPOS~
i know bugger all about how much lag that code generates but this has always weirded me out but i gues its to to with how everything stacks and how your standings etc just never get to +10
IF they looked at the excessive number generation id also look at how standings are applied and take alliance standings as simply -10 -5 0 +5 +10 (hate/dislike/dont care/admire/love) or something on those lines .. . ive never userstood the reasons for generation the standings on a sliding scale when effectivly theres is only 5 varients.
also i would force corps to have alliance standings overrule are priority and even consider them not generating corp sttandings and have them all neutral and use alliance only. its a nightmare seeing mixed standings even when under the same badge :/ could also solve pos shooty shooty errors.
Your standing can and will become 10.0 (even without skill bonuses).
And there are more than just 5 variants. E.g. anchoring a POS in highsec needs 10x the faction standing of the system you want to anchor in. So your -10 -5 0 +5 +10 would require this to be changed.
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Faerrus
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Posted - 2009.12.26 14:48:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Faerrus on 26/12/2009 14:48:52
Originally by: Meatypopsicle
Correct - STFU and you might learn something. 90 people is nothing. 300+ is something.
lol 300+ is nothing either, in geminate we are seeing regular 700+ fights, CCP warlok was in system the last fight (K25) when the node was 'triple reinforced' and was running fine, unfortunatly he left jsut as the Atlas capital fleet jumped in then it all went to ****, i agree that the tests have to be run in a fight like conditions not on a beacon in clear space, get a ****caged pos up and a bubbled gates with 50+ caps cyno'ing into a pre existing fight of 400 v 400 and you'll experiance the lag.
~Orkasm
Edit: Fail alt :|
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thisisnotmikaldrey
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Posted - 2009.12.26 15:03:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Ban Doga Your standing can and will become 10.0 (even without skill bonuses).
And there are more than just 5 variants. E.g. anchoring a POS in highsec needs 10x the faction standing of the system you want to anchor in. So your -10 -5 0 +5 +10 would require this to be changed.
let me clarify . .
you dont actually get +10 it will show +10 but its 9.9999999999 and the +10 is actually rounding as the standings only actually show 10.00 (2x decimal places.)
anchoring a pos in empire does indeed require the respective status +7/0.7 etc.
PERSONAL / CORP / ALLIANCE standings which display on the overview as .. RED, Orange, Neutral, Light blue, BLUE which is only 5 seperate states but you can manually set standings to be anwhere between -10 and +10 but the overview will only ever difrenciate between the 5 seperate colours. if the MANUAL standings system was streamlined for simplicity then thats what i was wondering where streamlined standings code would help.
every time since dominion whenever i open my charsheet standings page or show info on an alliance/corp and view the standings info i will pretty much 100% generate a lag spike.
npc standings still require all decimal places as you also have to consider the agent intergration but MANUALLY SET ones dont need this.
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Boomershoot
Caldari Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.12.26 16:36:00 -
[49]
Originally by: thisisnotmikaldrey
Originally by: Boomershoot Edited by: Boomershoot on 26/12/2009 03:35:20
Originally by: Lijhal 2) why do we have dmg modifiers with 9 diggits behind the comma ? i mean, whats the reason to have a 9,234856219875 dmg modifier onto my pulse lasers ? wouldnt 9,24 do the same ? your game is all about math, so lets reduce server calculations a lot by changing dmg modifiers into "real" numbers .. imagine the calculations a server have to do if 1000 ppl are hiting one target with those numbers....
This made my day, CCP is currently facepalming as we speak.
****ING TYPOS~
i know bugger all about how much lag that code generates but this has always weirded me out but i gues its to to with how everything stacks and how your standings etc just never get to +10
IF they looked at the excessive number generation id also look at how standings are applied and take alliance standings as simply -10 -5 0 +5 +10 (hate/dislike/dont care/admire/love) or something on those lines .. . ive never userstood the reasons for generation the standings on a sliding scale when effectivly theres is only 5 varients.
also i would force corps to have alliance standings overrule are priority and even consider them not generating corp sttandings and have them all neutral and use alliance only. its a nightmare seeing mixed standings even when under the same badge :/ could also solve pos shooty shooty errors.
Sorry, i didn't make it clear.
Floating Point Calculations are the least issue here. stop crying about 8 decimal digits numbers.
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Hakaru Ishiwara
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.12.26 17:32:00 -
[50]
Some great points above in terms of generating proper test cases. In summary:
1) Create proper main-fleet numbers *as well as* secondary fleets either a few systems out of the main battle location AND w/in a titan bridge away. Those numbers should be as stated above, i.e., well in excess of 300 ships and closer to 900 - 1000 pilots.
2) Set-up a scenario with gate-camps and large numbers sitting on-grid @ both sides of a gate. One side is designated as 'team lemming.' The other side designated as team 'camp fire.' The system into which the lemmings jump should have at least 300 in local if not twice that amount for a truthful test.
3) Large-scale mobile warp disruption bubble installations are nasty frame-rate killers. As stated above, true combat scenarios involve these performance nightmares (bubbles) set-up on or around player owned stations or gates.
4) Within one of the large-scale fights, create one or more set-piece stealth bombing runs with enough launched bombs to chew threw typical fleet BS tanks. These things have been creating effects similar to the former AoE doomsday kills where ships and pods sit in a limbo not knowing if they are alive or dead until either several minutes post-death or the client is restarted.
5) Test the performance of clients / ships that are in the test system, but not on-grid at whatever fight is taking place. In other words, if a fight is happening at a gate, record the metrics associated with a ship sitting at a planet or safe spot in-system. Frame-rates be damned, a navigation-related command in a highly populated system can require 10 - 60 seconds to actually take effect despite a UI and menu trees which appear to be responding properly.
6) Run a secondary test where American (north and south) and other non-European players can participate. Internet-based latency surely must play a part in large-scale events and how the node(s) manage the load.
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Doctor Penguin
Amarr Sacred Templars Black Swan.
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Posted - 2009.12.26 23:45:00 -
[51]
Can I make a suggestion?
Names of Alliances for testing - Pirates and Ninjas. Just because it would be funny.
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Steph1975
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Posted - 2009.12.27 00:07:00 -
[52]
Im so happy that you try to do something against the lag on test server.... but what about try to fix the lag on game server ?
this night I saw 700 fleet member destroyed by 450 reds.... it's happened in Y8R-XZ... none of them was able to open the fire... the problem is not lag, but selective lag. the score 700 vs 7, woaw, so indredible that I can not believe that it wasn't done intentionaly....
AND WHAT ARE YOU DOING AGAINST THAT ?
now I have maybe a solution to play a MMPORG; play WOW
best regard
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Etien Aldragoran
DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.27 00:24:00 -
[53]
When are you going to learn that just because you have a bunch of random people doing random things in a system it's not representative of large scale 0.0 combat? Having a random empire newbie show up on a grid and shoot whatever's in range doesn't stress the server the same as 250 people trying to lock a battleship and get shots off before the alpha strike takes it off (I'm looking at you inaccurate killmail numbers since pre-Revelations).
Also, why hasn't CCP ever logged one of the big TQ fights? They're literally what you're after and you know exactly when they're going to happen. If it adds more CPU usage to the node, it's not like we'll know the difference between the node flat out ****ting itself and you guys running a utility to monitor the whole thing. Lag is lag and I've never seen CCP make a statement explaining why a certain fight was laggy so it's not like we're going to catch you not giving us the best available.
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Marc Folk
Caldari Deliverers of Pain Ev0ke
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Posted - 2009.12.27 03:36:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Etien Aldragoran blaaa
have you ever scaled large clusters for more than 1000 people? it's hard to decide such a large test... you'll nerver be able to log a large fleet fight if you ar e not aware of it cause nobody fills the fleet fight formular... i'll be ther for testing :) ---------------------------------------------------------------
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Raider Zero
Minmatar Princeps Corp Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.27 08:19:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Raider Zero on 27/12/2009 08:20:31
Quote:
CCP:
What exactly is being tested?
0.0 Fleet tests:
* We will begin by conducting a 'regular' Fleet fight on pre-dominion code (Patched client)
* After the first fight, we will move to the Dominion test (non-patched) server and then conduct 2 more tests: one 'standard' fleet fight, and then we will move everyone into test alliances and run a test of the Sov system
DON T WASTE UR AND OUR TIME LOOKING FOR SOMETHING THAT NOTHING HAS TO DEAL WITH DOMINION CODE.
I HAD THE SAME LAG AND BUGS ISSUES FROM TPAR ASSAULT (PREDOMINION) THAN GEMINATE ASSAULT
I DID NOT HAVE THE SAME LAG AND BUG ISSUES FROM SEPTEMBER AND OCTOBER GOON AND COMPANY OFFENSIVE IN DETORID.
I M 99% SURE THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG IN THE LAST PREDOMINION PATCHES. Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] -Targoviste |
ElfeGER
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.12.27 10:24:00 -
[56]
this is more for server side lag as bad fps can be checked on live fights or with spawned stuff
Dominion removed AOE dd which leads to blobs again = more players on grid = more server load
testing fleets is also a bit to general and may be split it up like: - 500 ppl at a gate jumping to next system = time it takes on an idle node to finish 95% of the jumps - 500 ppl at a gate in 2 fleets with boosters set jumping to next system = time it takes on an idle node to finish 95% of the jumps
warp in tests to a grid 250 ppl on grid - time it takes to load for ppl on grid and warping in warp in tests to a grid 250 ppl on grid with drones deployed - time it takes to load for ppl on grid and warping in (aka lot's of grid updates with new objects - gangwarps vs. 250 ppl warping on their own?)
last but not least pew pew 250 ppl vs. 250 ppl 500 ppl vs. 1 target
if those components are known you can add up and see that jumping/bridging into a fight is a very bad thing for the server side as all 3 things happen at the same time
weapon linking vs. stuck modules = request/submit logs
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FellRaven
Minmatar Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.12.27 10:35:00 -
[57]
Every time a new release goes in Lag is re-introduced, the players complain it takes CCP about 2 months to respond and issues are fixed one by one and the game is stabilized to the pre-release level.
So if you want to find the lag monster look back to what you have re-introduced that you had previously removed. Things that have historically caused lag are Titans (Single Titan can lag a whole node why?) Fighters! We all know drones cause lag but fighters are even worse also bombs and missiles may also be an issue.
And my personal favourite "Thread-less Processing" or what ever you call it. Which from a players perspective seems to mean that player A can play in an almost lag free environment while player B looks at a blank or frozen screen for 20-30 minutes before finally waking up in a new clone. Do you see the problem with this?
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Yusuke Cor
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Posted - 2009.12.27 11:03:00 -
[58]
Why don't hey get CCP employees to play on test server? Like all of them, including that nice cleaning lady. Family members as bonus. Hell, they might get few more subscriptions and care more
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Ol' Delsai
Caldari Kernel of War Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2009.12.27 11:31:00 -
[59]
I think that before trying to fix the "lag monster", CCP should try to fix client/server synchronisation.
The server should not be able to apply damage on a ship if the client has not loaded the grid.
How could it happen that the server has enough ressources to calculate damages, apply it to the ship and even destroy it, when, in the same time, it has not enough ressources to upload data to the client.
This is actually the most frustrating behaviour of Eve, jumping in a system , not loading the grid, seing an empty space and in a same time receiving damage notification and in the end your loss mail
From my point of view, it should be very very easy to develop the most simplest binary test to check, before doing anything to a ship, if it's client has actually loaded the grid or not ...
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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2009.12.27 12:39:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Ol' Delsai I think that before trying to fix the "lag monster", CCP should try to fix client/server synchronisation.
...
From my point of view, it should be very very easy to develop the most simplest binary test to check, before doing anything to a ship, if it's client has actually loaded the grid or not ...
There is one rule in MMO development which is an absolute: never trust the client.
The client can't be trusted. If you let the client decide if code on the server is executed or not you are deep into sh!t of the worst possible sort.
Besides, maybe it was not so clever to remove gridwide doomsday? I always argued that doomsday helped a lot to reduce lag, but lol, who listens to me anyway. |
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