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PR0PHETOFDOOM Caldari MIME Inc	Posted - 2009.12.24 19:57:00 - [1] 1) EVE isnt a game. 2) There is no reward for being logged on and doing stuff apart from grinding more isk 3) Eve isnt fun. Sure mining and missioning might be fun at the start. Just wait 4) You need Excel installed on your PC 5) You need 5+ Programs to be able to play eve effectivly 6) Eve trailers are lies 7) Jump bridges and all this sov stuff is bad. I <3 escorting freighters and working as a team to do somthing. No point in this anymore 8) i cant think of anything else atm :)
Passageway Gallente	Posted - 2009.12.24 20:00:00 - [2] 9)People are allowed to post rubbish in the forums (or fora, if you prefer).
Bubble Meat	Posted - 2009.12.24 20:01:00 - [3] 1) Then stop playing. 2) then stop playing. 3) Too much grind I admit, but not fun? That's pushing it. Suggestion, stop playing. 4) No you don't 5) No you don't 6) No it doesn't 7) Yeah because 0.0 did not need them And they still fail to get 0.0 to empire trading rollig. 8) Then go shake some presents around to see what they are, just do not shake it too much.. it may be a puppy.
Washell Olivaw	Posted - 2009.12.24 20:05:00 - [4] 9) doesn't have 10 things that suck Originally by: Signature Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
Cat o'Ninetails Rancer Defence League	Posted - 2009.12.24 20:07:00 - [5] 10) Pirates x Yay! Six months of defending! \o/ <3 to Abrazzar!
Boink'urr Minmatar Wasserette De Tarthorst	Posted - 2009.12.24 20:11:00 - [6] 11) Passageway and Bubblemeat
Sherringford Hovis	Posted - 2009.12.24 20:15:00 - [7] 12) Cat o'nine crappy posting...
Doomed Predator Red Federation	Posted - 2009.12.24 20:15:00 - [8] 14) BECAUSE OF FALCON The 'Fendahlian Collective' strikes again
bloodlust priest	Posted - 2009.12.24 20:27:00 - [9]
Ikathis sihtaki	Posted - 2009.12.24 20:29:00 - [10] #1 reason 3/4 of the folk are full of fail (this is pointed out by ccp and all the rejects who just grind level 4's all day)

Jainia Soltella	Posted - 2009.12.24 20:31:00 - [11] 15) People that complain, but refuse to contract their stuff to me before quitting.
ZiggyXX Minmatar	Posted - 2009.12.24 20:40:00 - [12] Then leave. Simple as that. "In Rust We Trust"
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2009.12.24 20:47:00 - [13] 1-10 Unfunny people trolling their fake emorage threads over and over till they find someone who think its remotely giggleworthy. Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
Agent Known	Posted - 2009.12.24 20:52:00 - [14] Originally by: bloodlust priest /thread On another note, I also have an annoying sig. inaftertimeflux
Sir Zzang Amarr REUNI0N Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2009.12.24 20:53:00 - [15] Tbh you sound like a mad empire industralist (without knowledge and future plan) owned by a competition. If you need grind anything more than 4-5 hours, get back to WoW. Or before that, save your life and throw your computer out of the window. Regards _ :D!
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2009.12.24 20:55:00 - [16] 16) 5 Minute forum timer Originally by: Jim Raynor EVE needs danger, EVE needs risks, EVE needs combat, even piracy, without these things, the game stagnates to a trivial game centering around bloating your wallet with no purpose.
Hot Fudge Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2009.12.24 21:04:00 - [17] Lol... have never used 5 plus programs to play Eve, nor have I ever had Excel installed on my computer. ========================= Sweet, sticky, and bad for your health.
Fille Balle Ballbreakers R us	Posted - 2009.12.24 21:06:00 - [18] Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails 10) Pirates x CAT! You're back! I've missed you. Where have you been? I've got a warm nice fuzzy feeling inside of me now. NEVER stop punishing the wicked! You're a true inspiration to other aspiring vigilante's!
Zann Mei Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.12.24 21:09:00 - [19] EVE IS DYING!!! >CLICK<
Obsidian Hawk Free Galactic Enterprises FREGE	Posted - 2009.12.24 21:10:00 - [20] 1. Lies 2. Suiciding a carebear and watching them whine isnt rewarding? 3. you forgot pvp, and ice mining! 4. No you don't. I use open office anyway. SO THERE! 5. Lies, us 3+ year old vets remember the time before evemon. 3.5 years later and the only program i have for eve is EFT, but thats because im too lazy to use the test sever to try out fittings and what not. 6. Not really, they may exaggerate a little on some things, but they ae pretty realistic on a lot of the stuff that happens in eve. 7. Talk to razor about losing all their freighters at a jump bridge. 8. There is nothing wrong with EvE.

Danbar Roth Amarr	Posted - 2009.12.24 21:15:00 - [21] Edited by: Danbar Roth on 24/12/2009 21:15:28 Making me see threads like this pop up relay want CCP to just turn around and just say well FK you and shut down the server and see how long it is before those whining little FK turds to come crawling back. Stop FKing moaning all the time about their not doin this and their not doin that, Your not all Fking that and you dont know every thing so shut the F**K up. Merry Christmas :-)
HIghlord Diamond	Posted - 2009.12.24 21:25:00 - [22] Originally by: Zann Mei EVE IS DYING!!! I believe that particular statement has been trade marked my friend. Yet oddly the player base keeps increasing... I shall now state 10 things I don't like in EVE. 1)Scotty 2)Every single one tech 1 frigs and t2 cruiser. They are outdated. 3)All the 'jokes' about the Thorax being a giant *****. 4)The 30 seconds delay every time you fleet up, change ship and etc, but I assume it's there to avoid some kind of exploit or something 5)The music, it's boring. I have iTunes running all the time to fix that however. 6)These forums. 7)Scotty again! 8)People thinking they are being funny, including me (yes I hate myself) 9)The 0.0 lag. 10)All other bugs and crashes I have to tolerate. Even if 99% of them aren't really a big deal. it's just the number of them really.
hcvzer	Posted - 2009.12.24 21:31:00 - [23] 1-10) You.
stoicfaux	Posted - 2009.12.24 21:33:00 - [24] 12) WoW has better Lore and PvE. ----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Nietzsche, and PvP"
D3F4ULT Gallente	Posted - 2009.12.24 21:34:00 - [25] Originally by: PR0PHETOFDOOM 1) EVE isnt a game. 2) There is no reward for being logged on and doing stuff apart from grinding more isk 3) Eve isnt fun. Sure mining and missioning might be fun at the start. Just wait 4) You need Excel installed on your PC 5) You need 5+ Programs to be able to play eve effectivly 6) Eve trailers are lies 7) Jump bridges and all this sov stuff is bad. I <3 escorting freighters and working as a team to do somthing. No point in this anymore 8) i cant think of anything else atm :) /agreed off to WoW I go. =D
Allen Ramses Caldari Typo Corp	Posted - 2009.12.24 21:43:00 - [26] 10 REAL reasons why EVE sucks... 1) The game balance team don't know what the ** they are doing. 2) Casual play is non-existent. In most other MMOs, doing nothing in particular (exploring for the sake of enjoying the view) is a feature. Things like this are absent in EVE outside of station spinning. 3) The game balance team don't know what the they are doing. 4) CCP hasn't been an active part of the community for the past two years. 5) Did I mention the game balance team don't know what the ** they are doing? 6) The game is so riddled with bugs it's easier to find out what isn't working than it is to find out what is. 7) The game bala... 8) The Nighthawk is gunmetal blue instead of black . 9) ... 10) The community is one of the worst I have ever seen anywhere. It makes Gamefaqs look intelligent, /b/ look sophisticated, and SA look forgiving. And yet I still play the game. Either I am a masochist or EVE offers much more than anything else. Probably a combination of both, really. ____________ I'd make a forum signature that didn't suck, but I'm restricted by a character limit that does.
Junko Togawa Caldari	Posted - 2009.12.24 21:52:00 - [27] 1)All you other wastes of bandwidth playing it. GTFO mah Single-Player game, plzkthxbai and Rotten Effing Crimbo on top. 2)" 3)" 4)" 5)" 6)" 7)" 8)" 9)" 10)"
Nareg Maxence Gallente JotunHeim Hird	Posted - 2009.12.24 21:54:00 - [28] Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails 10) Pirates x CAT!!!!!!
Swiftgaze	Posted - 2009.12.24 21:56:00 - [29] Edited by: Swiftgaze on 24/12/2009 21:56:13 I think hes quite right. :P
Saint Lazarus art of eve Gunmen of the Apocalypse	Posted - 2009.12.24 22:03:00 - [30] Actually I'm curious as to what 5 programs hes even talking about, pity he'll never reply EFT is the only mandatory one, and thats only if you PvP, so really even that is a choice ----------------- My EvE Comic

Hardened Heart Duty.	Posted - 2009.12.24 22:03:00 - [31] 9) People with no grasp of sarcasm.
Obsidian Hawk Free Galactic Enterprises FREGE	Posted - 2009.12.24 22:03:00 - [32] Originally by: stoicfaux 12) WoW has better Lore and PvE. Have you read all 100 Chronicles. EvE lore is much deeper and darker than wow lore. But also WoW lore has lost a lot, blizz isnt even trying anymore they are just making stuff up now. Though I do believe the best lore in wow, was the lore that started off about Hakkar in Zul'Gurub that started at about lvl 10 and persisted all over the land until you finally fought him.
Slapchop Gonnalovemynuts	Posted - 2009.12.24 22:13:00 - [33] I'm not sure, but I think I might just be posting in an "EVE is dying!!!" thread?? -------------------------------------------- Quote: EVE-Online... Too rough for ya? Don't like it? GTFO...
Chaos Incarnate Faceless Logistics	Posted - 2009.12.24 22:16:00 - [34] Originally by: Saint Lazarus Actually I'm curious as to what 5 programs hes even talking about, pity he'll never reply EFT is the only mandatory one, and thats only if you PvP, so really even that is a choice There's EFT, evemon, EVE-Meep, a few trading programs, a few invention programs, wormhole thingy, those out-of-game mapbrowsers to help with route planning/capships, eve mover and probably a few more I don't even remember. You'd have to be doing a bit of everything to need all of them, though, and there's a lot of overlap even within those _____________________
Slapchop Gonnalovemynuts	Posted - 2009.12.24 22:19:00 - [35] Originally by: Chaos Incarnate ... Dude... your face -------------------------------------------- Quote: EVE-Online... Too rough for ya? Don't like it? GTFO...
prizum	Posted - 2009.12.24 22:33:00 - [36] 50,000 people online right now disagree with you.
Gontarski Republic Military School	Posted - 2009.12.24 22:42:00 - [37] (6) 100% agree (9) Gate guns in lowsec (10) 99% are carebears (including lowsec & nullsec) (11) Combat is click>await result>take further action (12) Combat is made to cater for wussies (13) Grinding is the fact of life in Eve (14) The forum community S***s (15) Forums (& search) are made by incomptent wannabe programmers
Tolarus Clown Punchers. Clown Punchers Syndicate	Posted - 2009.12.24 22:56:00 - [38] 1) There are no elves in EvE (no, gallente are not elves) that alone makes EvE Online the best MMO ever
Obsidian Hawk Free Galactic Enterprises FREGE	Posted - 2009.12.24 23:29:00 - [39] All of those who fit into problem #5, you are all spoiled. I remember back in the day, when there was no EFT, EvEmon or anything like that. you went to eve geek and other sites to calculate stuff. If you wanted to test out a fitting on your ship you had to log into the test server and try out stuff, and pvp in pf-346 to see how well your fitting would work in a gank situation. Ahh yes, you young whipper snappers have it easy. I started in eve with 80k sp, no 2x skill training time and not a chance in hell of surviving. If you ask me, EFT and EVE mon shoudl be removed, lets see how many of you survive w/o those programs.
Frygok Minmatar The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.12.24 23:31:00 - [40] The one thing I will concur with is the fact that it is ridiculously easy to ship things back and forth from 0.0 to empire. There should be logistics done, convoys that can be assaulted by smaller gangs. Yes, it is annoying as hell, but it would potentially also let alliances cover smaller space, as the logistics becomes harder. Doing 3 jumps with a JF and have tons and tons of stuff moved across the universe seems a bit too easy in my opinion. But I realise others disagree with this, especially the people having to drag all the stuff back and forth.

Hera Ominae	Posted - 2009.12.24 23:46:00 - [41] Originally by: PR0PHETOFDOOM 2) There is no reward for being logged on and doing stuff apart from grinding more isk How about actually playing the ****ing game instead of just farming?
Junko Togawa Caldari	Posted - 2009.12.25 01:20:00 - [42] Originally by: Obsidian Hawk If you ask me, EFT and EVE mon shoudl be removed, lets see how many of you survive w/o those programs. EVEHQ, beaches. Pwns those two wastes of HD space anyways.
Pretty Nice	Posted - 2009.12.25 01:33:00 - [43] 1 no sounds effects impact, launcher, cloak, engine etc 2 no sounds effects impact, launcher, cloak, engine etc 3 no sounds effects impact, launcher, cloak, engine etc 4 no sounds effects impact, launcher, cloak, engine etc 5 no sounds effects impact, launcher, cloak, engine etc 6 no sounds effects impact, launcher, cloak, engine etc 7 no sounds effects impact, launcher, cloak, engine etc 8 no sounds effects impact, launcher, cloak, engine etc 9 no sounds effects impact, launcher, cloak, engine etc 10 no sounds effects impact, launcher, cloak, engine etc
Noun Verber Gallente	Posted - 2009.12.25 01:35:00 - [44] Originally by: Bubble Meat 1) Then stop playing. HELP! How do I stop playing if it isn't a game?
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2009.12.25 01:48:00 - [45] dude... your chin But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
Major Cannabis	Posted - 2009.12.25 05:33:00 - [46] I seem to recall a guy name tuscun nebular listing his concerns and his negative opinions as well as giving some sugestions on how to make this a better game of eve online and listed about the same items as this fellow has, and was castrated by eve players and ccp itself. I recall the post that went on for like 5 days and was more or less told by ccp and eve player "Hey if you don't like the game, Leave" Since that post I do see more and more players that saying the same thing. Maybe CCP should be a little more open minded, and listen to these player because STO is comming out, and some of the disatisfied players are sure to jump ship and join the sto mmo
WhiteSavage Ever Flow Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.12.25 05:49:00 - [47] MY GOD SIR
Rakshasa Taisab Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries	Posted - 2009.12.25 05:55:00 - [48] Originally by: Major Cannabis I seem to recall a guy name tuscun nebular listing his concerns and his negative opinions as well as giving some sugestions on how to make this a better game of eve online and listed about the same items as this fellow has, and was castrated by eve players and ccp itself. Dude, lay off the weed. It's obvious you got a bad case of reefer madness.
Dianna Soreil Monolithic.	Posted - 2009.12.25 06:07:00 - [49] dude... your thread...
De'Veldrin Minmatar Special Projects Executive The Obsidian Legion	Posted - 2009.12.25 06:15:00 - [50] Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails 10) Pirates x Cat's back! \o/ --Vel In the world of emoticons, I was colon capital d.

Dasola Minmatar	Posted - 2009.12.25 11:02:00 - [51] Somehow i dont think having isk is such a bad goal in long term. After all in sufficient quantities it allows you to do things like: - hire merceneries as your own private army - Have best ships with best fits, lose one, jump right next one and dont give a ****. - Buy out small alliance from their 0.0 space - dominate your corner of market - Start new bank, run it a while and take all isk and run (example ebank)
stoicfaux	Posted - 2009.12.25 19:21:00 - [52] Originally by: Obsidian Hawk Originally by: stoicfaux 12) WoW has better Lore and PvE. Have you read all 100 Chronicles. EvE lore is much deeper and darker than wow lore. Helps to have in-game lore. And I read the Empyrean book. Argh. CCP needs to hire Stackpole. Or just do a Battletech crossover. ;-) To get back on topic: 99) Eve spent the time and resources to develop an in-game browser. Given that you need to play the game with 5 other apps, does anyone not play in windowed mode? ----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Nietzsche, and PvP"

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2009.12.25 19:23:00 - [53] 42. There are other ore's than Veldspar. Secure 3rd party service

Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.12.25 19:23:00 - [54] Originally by: Major Cannabis I seem to recall a guy name tuscun nebular listing his concerns and his negative opinions as well as giving some sugestions on how to make this a better game of eve online and listed about the same items as this fellow has, and was castrated by eve players and ccp itself. I recall the post that went on for like 5 days and was more or less told by ccp and eve player "Hey if you don't like the game, Leave" Since that post I do see more and more players that saying the same thing. Maybe CCP should be a little more open minded, and listen to these player because STO is comming out, and some of the disatisfied players are sure to jump ship and join the sto mmo Yeah... for one month.
Boomershoot Caldari Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.12.25 19:29:00 - [55] 59.2 Tris) Lack of Pancakes
uNtOldPAIN Covert-Nexus	Posted - 2009.12.25 19:38:00 - [56] Yes Eve sucks. It sucks that I can feel it call me. I dream about eve. Wonder what I could have done different. What do I need to train next. Whom am I going to **** off next. Yes Eve sucks and I love it
Mrs Thaiberian	Posted - 2009.12.25 20:03:00 - [57] I think that EvE could be a bit boring after 2 Month or so of playing, but then get's better. I mean, at the beginning, everything is cool and exiting and you quickly get immersed with the back-story and all the possibilities that the game offers. Saddly, being a skill based game, there's little you can do besides grinding necessary isks and training skills. So, you start either mining or running missions. I think that after 2 month or so there's a sort of "crisis" period when you got extremely bored of mining/missioning and you start to be really desperate to have access to the cool stuff (ships and fits) and try many things such 0.0 fights, Pos managament, T2 manufacturing and so on.. but, unfortunately, you still don't have the experience/skills to do such things so you stick mining/mission running to get more and more Isks/skills. I think that after 3/4 month you have skills enough to start trying more funny stuff.
Mocam	Posted - 2009.12.25 21:38:00 - [58] Originally by: PR0PHETOFDOOM 1) EVE isnt a game. True -- it's a lifestyle. "well if you bothered to learn enough about it..." Masters Degree level knowledge! 2) There is no reward for being logged on and doing stuff apart from grinding more isk Yup! "how come I can't make enough doing just PvP? Try WoW if you want to play PvP without consequences -- where there are consequences for PvP, you have to recover from losses.." 3) Eve isnt fun. Sure mining and missioning might be fun at the start. Just wait yeah, I can see that already. all those complaints about stupid laggy fleet ops in nullsec... I mean who'd want to be part of a huge fight like that?!?! yuck! gotta be boring as hell... 4) You need Excel installed on your PC who doesn't have excel??? It's a microsoft app! If you aren't genuflecting at the microsoft altar, you're... a heathen!!!! 5) You need 5+ Programs to be able to play eve effectivly a ha! I knew I was doing something wrong -- excel, eft, evemon, eve... 4/5 -- I blew it!!! moan 6) Eve trailers are lies how so? Why they are as realistic and truthful as the evening news! 7) Jump bridges and all this sov stuff is bad. I <3 escorting freighters and working as a team to do somthing. No point in this anymore You friggn "fly around all over!" types just make no sense to me at all. Pick a spot and sit there for a few hours if you really want to get into the game play here! I prefer mining really. It's a blast shooting those lasers at the roids until they go poof... then pick another rock. the visits to the stations, etc... 8) i cant think of anything else atm :) what? How about all these stupid changes and how much they cost? I mean Apocrypha, Dominion and whatever else they're coming up with... "buy our next expansion today!" grrr... friggn money grubbing thieves gouging us every chance they can get!!! Fun stuff & happy holidays to you too. :-p
Aristaeus Themis	Posted - 2009.12.25 22:12:00 - [59] Have a merry Christmas!
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.12.25 22:17:00 - [60] Originally by: PR0PHETOFDOOM 1) EVE isnt a game. 2) There is no reward for being logged on and doing stuff apart from grinding more isk 3) Eve isnt fun. Sure mining and missioning might be fun at the start. Just wait 4) You need Excel installed on your PC 5) You need 5+ Programs to be able to play eve effectivly 6) Eve trailers are lies 7) Jump bridges and all this sov stuff is bad. I <3 escorting freighters and working as a team to do somthing. No point in this anymore 8) i cant think of anything else atm :) 9)My God your chin! 10) Nearly 40k online on Christmas Day. (This is US prime time I'm talking about so non christians prease htfu:P) Originally by: Akita T We don't hate people like you, we look at you with mostly pity and a hint of disgust balled up in a big wad of "notto disu shi'tto agen".

Ikathis sihtaki	Posted - 2009.12.25 22:26:00 - [61] Originally by: Hot Fudge Lol... have never used 5 plus programs to play Eve, nor have I ever had Excel installed on my computer. then you are doing it wrong
Troll Bridgington Bronze Legion	Posted - 2009.12.25 22:35:00 - [62] HAI MOM!!!!!!!
Swiftgaze	Posted - 2009.12.25 23:40:00 - [63] Originally by: Troll Bridgington HAI MOM!!!!!!! Made me laugh. :)
XavierVE	Posted - 2009.12.25 23:44:00 - [64] Quote: Maybe CCP should be a little more open minded, and listen to these player because STO is comming out, and some of the disatisfied players are sure to jump ship and join the sto mmo Yeah, I can't wait to play City of Heroes in space. I feel bad for anyone who jumps from this MMO to play in a Cryptic-run MMO. You have no idea what you're in for, ha.
Alderon Mizuchi Minmatar	Posted - 2009.12.26 00:13:00 - [65] I can rest easy knowing there's people out there stupid enough to pay for stuff they hate.
Twopah	Posted - 2009.12.26 09:40:00 - [66] Originally by: PR0PHETOFDOOM 1) EVE isnt a game. 2) There is no reward for being logged on and doing stuff apart from grinding more isk 3) Eve isnt fun. Sure mining and missioning might be fun at the start. Just wait 4) You need Excel installed on your PC 5) You need 5+ Programs to be able to play eve effectivly 6) Eve trailers are lies 7) Jump bridges and all this sov stuff is bad. I <3 escorting freighters and working as a team to do somthing. No point in this anymore 8) i cant think of anything else atm :) I left EvE for around 6 months, came back 4 weeks ago. Tried plexing in 0.0 sec. Pos camped by hostiles. Jumped to High sec to do missions. Station camped by War Targets outnumbering me 12:1 Went to an alt to rat and salvage in High sec, griefed and hounded by can thieves untill I attacked them. They held me for 2 hrs with a scram because they couldnt beat me untill a couple of thier bum buddies showed up in Command ships to pop my Drake. I thought it was me and him, yet they were allowed to chow down with no concord. As was pointed out though, you can quit. My accounts are cancelled. I wont bother suggesting they fix the game or anything like that. Even the MMO industry needs a trailer park but lets stop pretending. Its cannibalism in space, its not healthy and if you are still paying for it, your an idiot. 6 years later, CCP proved they dont care. It isnt going to change. It is what it is and will die that way. In a year, in 10 years. I dont care. I'm done with EvE. Fun for a while, now it isnt fun any more and thats what is core to me. Dont try and warp it in to something it isnt and dont let it warp you in to somethoing you aren't. Go, it's easier than you think. 4 accounts, 5 years later I did. I am sure you can.
Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles	Posted - 2009.12.26 09:52:00 - [67] Originally by: PR0PHETOFDOOM 1) EVE isnt a game. This is by design - the developers always thought of it as more of a sandpit. Quote: 2) There is no reward for being logged on and doing stuff apart from grinding more isk See #1 - you need to set yourself goals in order to achieve anything. Quote: 3) Eve isnt fun. Sure mining and missioning might be fun at the start. Just wait There's more to PVE than that, and you're just dismissing PVP altogether? Quote: 4) You need Excel installed on your PC Actually google docs works perfectly well inside the new IGB (you can't create new docs there, but you can edit existing ones). Quote: 5) You need 5+ Programs to be able to play eve effectivly As per #4 I've already removed at least one of those. I can't think of any activity which, on its own, would need a further 4 different apps. Quote: 6) Eve trailers are lies It's true that some of them were put together using CCP's film creation package and were not rendered in real time. For any more moderate number of ships, AA works fine if forced via graphics drivers. Quote: 7) Jump bridges and all this sov stuff is bad. I <3 escorting freighters and working as a team to do somthing. No point in this anymore The latest patch just added giant sov holding / contesting modules and infrastructure hubs that are too big to be hauled in JFs and need to be shipped all over 0.0 via freighter. Quote: 8) i cant think of anything else atm :) Based on the previous 8 points, it's probably just as well. --- 34.4:1 mineral compression
Nina Treml	Posted - 2009.12.26 10:11:00 - [68] 10 reasons why you MUST stop playing right now: 1) you fail 2) you are doing it wrong 3) you suck 4) you are a noob 5) you are too dumb for this 6) in the end you'll become just another whaaaaaamulance pilot 7) and in the end you'll make just another rage-post rage-quitting and everyone will laugh at you 8) becouse you fail 9) and you are doing it wrong 10) and you should try/go back to wow ( that way ) So, do yourself and everyone a favor: quit now!
ceaon Gallente	Posted - 2009.12.26 11:22:00 - [69] i really like to see eve subscription under 200k and then see if ppl still post if u dont like it leave :D:D:D
Serpents smile	Posted - 2009.12.26 12:03:00 - [70] Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails 10) Pirates x OMgawd... its back!

Typhado3 Minmatar	Posted - 2009.12.26 12:21:00 - [71] 34) You ate my pudding you little thief. ------------------------------ God is AFK, I am not
Laarz	Posted - 2009.12.26 12:36:00 - [72] Originally by: T*ah Originally by: PR0PHETOFDOOM 1) EVE isnt a game. 2) There is no reward for being logged on and doing stuff apart from grinding more isk 3) Eve isnt fun. Sure mining and missioning might be fun at the start. Just wait 4) You need Excel installed on your PC 5) You need 5+ Programs to be able to play eve effectivly 6) Eve trailers are lies 7) Jump bridges and all this sov stuff is bad. I <3 escorting freighters and working as a team to do somthing. No point in this anymore 8) i cant think of anything else atm :) I left EvE for around 6 months, came back 4 weeks ago. Tried plexing in 0.0 sec. Pos camped by hostiles. Jumped to High sec to do missions. Station camped by War Targets outnumbering me 12:1 Went to an alt to rat and salvage in High sec, griefed and hounded by can thieves untill I attacked them. They held me for 2 hrs with a scram because they couldnt beat me untill a couple of thier bum buddies showed up in Command ships to pop my Drake. I thought it was me and him, yet they were allowed to chow down with no concord. As was pointed out though, you can quit. My accounts are cancelled. I wont bother suggesting they fix the game or anything like that. Even the MMO industry needs a trailer park but lets stop pretending. Its cannibalism in space, its not healthy and if you are still paying for it, your an idiot. 6 years later, CCP proved they dont care. It isnt going to change. It is what it is and will die that way. In a year, in 10 years. I dont care. I'm done with EvE. Fun for a while, now it isnt fun any more and thats what is core to me. Dont try and warp it in to something it isnt and dont let it warp you in to somethoing you aren't. Go, it's easier than you think. 4 accounts, 5 years later I did. I am sure you can. This tbh. I have been playing eve for over 4 years now and have come to this same conclusion. I did enjoy eve for awhile but it has become a different game in recent times i think or maybe i have changed. But yeah cannibals in space about sums it up lol.
Pretty Nice	Posted - 2009.12.26 13:10:00 - [73] Originally by: T*ah Originally by: PR0PHETOFDOOM 1) EVE isnt a game. 2) There is no reward for being logged on and doing stuff apart from grinding more isk 3) Eve isnt fun. Sure mining and missioning might be fun at the start. Just wait 4) You need Excel installed on your PC 5) You need 5+ Programs to be able to play eve effectivly 6) Eve trailers are lies 7) Jump bridges and all this sov stuff is bad. I <3 escorting freighters and working as a team to do somthing. No point in this anymore 8) i cant think of anything else atm :) I left EvE for around 6 months, came back 4 weeks ago. Tried plexing in 0.0 sec. Pos camped by hostiles. Jumped to High sec to do missions. Station camped by War Targets outnumbering me 12:1 Went to an alt to rat and salvage in High sec, griefed and hounded by can thieves untill I attacked them. They held me for 2 hrs with a scram because they couldnt beat me untill a couple of thier bum buddies showed up in Command ships to pop my Drake. I thought it was me and him, yet they were allowed to chow down with no concord. As was pointed out though, you can quit. My accounts are cancelled. I wont bother suggesting they fix the game or anything like that. Even the MMO industry needs a trailer park but lets stop pretending. Its cannibalism in space, its not healthy and if you are still paying for it, your an idiot. 6 years later, CCP proved they dont care. It isnt going to change. It is what it is and will die that way. In a year, in 10 years. I dont care. I'm done with EvE. Fun for a while, now it isnt fun any more and thats what is core to me. Dont try and warp it in to something it isnt and dont let it warp you in to somethoing you aren't. Go, it's easier than you think. 4 accounts, 5 years later I did. I am sure you can. What a sad story it almost made me donate ISK.
Death4free Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.12.26 14:03:00 - [74] Im liking how all these carebears think that eve was originally designed just for mission runners. It was designed for griefing and pvp hence the "its a cold dark universe" part. Despite ccp giving you massive buffs which ensure that relatively intelligent people are safe in hi sec (concord buff,war dec nerf,more concord buffs) there are people who would still like to turn this into wow. Heres a hint if you dont like pvp or griefing then eve really isnt for you, wow pve is much more fun and you should probably give it a try after you contract me all ur stuff.
Terranid Meester Tactical Assault and Recon Unit	Posted - 2009.12.26 15:26:00 - [75] Originally by: T*ah I left EvE for around 6 months, came back 4 weeks ago. Tried plexing in 0.0 sec. Pos camped by hostiles. Jumped to High sec to do missions. Station camped by War Targets outnumbering me 12:1 Went to an alt to rat and salvage in High sec, griefed and hounded by can thieves untill I attacked them. They held me for 2 hrs with a scram because they couldnt beat me untill a couple of thier bum buddies showed up in Command ships to pop my Drake. I thought it was me and him, yet they were allowed to chow down with no concord. As was pointed out though, you can quit. My accounts are cancelled. I wont bother suggesting they fix the game or anything like that. Even the MMO industry needs a trailer park but lets stop pretending. Its cannibalism in space, its not healthy and if you are still paying for it, your an idiot. 6 years later, CCP proved they dont care. It isnt going to change. It is what it is and will die that way. In a year, in 10 years. I dont care. I'm done with EvE. Fun for a while, now it isnt fun any more and thats what is core to me. Dont try and warp it in to something it isnt and dont let it warp you in to somethoing you aren't. Go, it's easier than you think. 4 accounts, 5 years later I did. I am sure you can. Boo hoo.
Dalieus Dakarn Caldari Middle Finger Technology	Posted - 2009.12.26 15:29:00 - [76] Originally by: Terranid Meester Boo hoo. QFT
Junko Togawa Caldari	Posted - 2009.12.26 17:04:00 - [77] Ahh, but you see, the carebears are winning. With every mission run, with every rat popped, they come closer to taking over EVE. It's a fight for resources, it's economic PVP at its finest. Either man up and run them out, or sit back and cry as your precious hardcore spaceships game gets taken away from you. Baaaaw EVE is dying daaaw whine whine cwy wike a babeh etc. Plz. I do so love your tears. They fuels mah faction-fit Golem and Navy Domi soooo niceleh.
MaceMakaio Gallente Flying While Intoxicated Threshold Republic	Posted - 2009.12.26 17:47:00 - [78] Originally by: PR0PHETOFDOOM 1) EVE isnt a game. 2) There is no reward for being logged on and doing stuff apart from grinding more isk 3) Eve isnt fun. Sure mining and missioning might be fun at the start. Just wait 4) You need Excel installed on your PC 5) You need 5+ Programs to be able to play eve effectivly 6) Eve trailers are lies 7) Jump bridges and all this sov stuff is bad. I <3 escorting freighters and working as a team to do somthing. No point in this anymore 8) i cant think of anything else atm :) 1 Eve is not a game it is the way of life imo, if you cannot figure it out you have larger issues. 2. The reward for being logged in is using your brain to have some fun. 3. missions and mining are not the only thing to do, if you cannot figure that out see rule 1.. 4-5.you need the calculator in game and some simple math tbh 6. Trailers dont lie if your doin it right... 7. yes teamwork is the way to go with a little teamspeak. dont contract me your stuffz
d3vo The Missionaries	Posted - 2009.12.26 18:22:00 - [79] I think risk factor is the worst part of EVE. I don't know how it goes for WOW or other MMOs...but EVE's risk seem to be pretty high. Unless you are in a nice big corporation where they fund your pvp, or you spend you RL money and sell ETC to get more isk, other casual gamers are stuck trying to make more isk to compensate the isk they lose. And btw...I'll bet out of the 300k subscriptions and 40k active players (at all times), about 1/4 are dual accounts or triple accounts, or even more. __________ \(^.^)/
lollerwaffle Sileo In Pacis THE SPACE P0LICE	Posted - 2009.12.26 20:20:00 - [80] Originally by: d3vo I think risk factor is the worst part of EVE. I don't know how it goes for WOW or other MMOs...but EVE's risk seem to be pretty high. Don't like the risk? Don't play EVE. It's THAT simple. There's no point in playing a game and then asking for it to be changed to suit yourself. That's about as intelligent as going to a McDonalds and complaining thet they don't serve you KFC. Originally by: salva dore Cloak should not be AFK solution. What do you think? Originally by: AFK Cloaker

d3vo The Missionaries	Posted - 2009.12.26 21:15:00 - [81] Originally by: lollerwaffle Originally by: d3vo I think risk factor is the worst part of EVE. I don't know how it goes for WOW or other MMOs...but EVE's risk seem to be pretty high. Don't like the risk? Don't play EVE. It's THAT simple. There's no point in playing a game and then asking for it to be changed to suit yourself. That's about as intelligent as going to a McDonalds and complaining thet they don't serve you KFC. Lmfao... u mad? I'm just stating my opinions. So quit trolling and respect others opinions. When did I ever make the impression I hated this game because of this? Plus, I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks this... __________ \(^.^)/
Halcyon Ingenium Caldari	Posted - 2009.12.26 21:30:00 - [82] Edited by: Halcyon Ingenium on 26/12/2009 21:31:17 I don't grind for ISK, but then again, I'm not a re-re. If you want instant gratification try an hero. __________ Once you have their money, you never give it back.
dystrix Amarr Tydas Industrial Contracting	Posted - 2009.12.26 21:56:00 - [83] heheh
Elstine	Posted - 2009.12.26 22:03:00 - [84] Originally by: Death4free Im liking how all these carebears think that eve was originally designed just for mission runners. It was designed for griefing and pvp hence the "its a cold dark universe" part. Despite ccp giving you massive buffs which ensure that relatively intelligent people are safe in hi sec (concord buff,war dec nerf,more concord buffs) there are people who would still like to turn this into wow. Heres a hint if you dont like pvp or griefing then eve really isnt for you, wow pve is much more fun and you should probably give it a try after you contract me all ur stuff. Why does this sound just as accurate? Originally by: Death4free Im liking how all these gankbears think that eve was originally designed just for pvp. It was designed for gate campingand lag-fest blob fleets hence the "its a cold dark universe with 50k active subs right now" part. Despite ccp giving them massive buffs which ensure that relatively intelligent people are safe in hi sec (concord buff,war dec nerf,more concord buffs) there are gankbears like myself who would still like to kvetch and whine about lack of targets because we care so much about security status. Heres a hint if you dont like PVE or attempting to be a badass with -10 sec status then eve really isnt for you, EVE pvp is much more fun if gankbears would even try joining carebears with a gank if carebears won't join you and you should probably give up complaining about mission runners shakes magic 8 ball for cliche statement* you contract me all ur stuff if your leaving. If you don't like PVE, so what. Gate camping, AFK POS bashing, and station spining when you outnumbered 12-1 sounds so much more entertaining end sarcasm. If EVE was pure PVP and incredibly harsh, why did it do so poorly at the begining with 10k active people in begining? Oh, thats right; being human means its boring doing nothing with 3-4 week long level 5 training requirements (and you need several level 5 requires for ships) without implants that keep getting destroyed and your wasting money on a subscription you paid that isn't providing a ROI for you entertainment. Would you wait an hour and a half in line at a resturant, pay twice the value for a burger you could get for halve at a fast food place, and the service was terrible but the fast food place didn't have a waiter to serve you?
valaris trinder	Posted - 2009.12.26 22:11:00 - [85] ITS WHAT YOU MAKE IT IF YOU WANT TO BE THE MISSERABLE PERSON AT THE PARTY ITS BEST YOU GO HOME
Drakarin Gallente The Abyssmal Spire Independent Faction	Posted - 2009.12.27 01:16:00 - [86] Originally by: Ikathis sihtaki #1 reason 3/4 of the folk are full of fail (this is pointed out by ccp and all the rejects who just grind level 4's all day) This is a necessity to be able to do the fun stuff, which is why it kind of sucks.
Awesome Possum Imperium Signal Corps	Posted - 2009.12.27 01:53:00 - [87] Originally by: stoicfaux Originally by: Obsidian Hawk Originally by: stoicfaux 12) WoW has better Lore and PvE. Have you read all 100 Chronicles. EvE lore is much deeper and darker than wow lore. Helps to have in-game lore. And I read the Empyrean book. Argh. CCP needs to hire Stackpole. I agree, Stackpole should do an Eve book. Best books in Syfy. Hell, Stackpole should've written Star Wars Ep 1-3 as well. ♥ Wreck Disposal Services
lollerwaffle Sileo In Pacis THE SPACE P0LICE	Posted - 2009.12.27 06:49:00 - [88] Originally by: d3vo Originally by: lollerwaffle Originally by: d3vo I think risk factor is the worst part of EVE. I don't know how it goes for WOW or other MMOs...but EVE's risk seem to be pretty high. Don't like the risk? Don't play EVE. It's THAT simple. There's no point in playing a game and then asking for it to be changed to suit yourself. That's about as intelligent as going to a McDonalds and complaining thet they don't serve you KFC. Lmfao... u mad? I'm just stating my opinions. So quit trolling and respect others opinions. When did I ever make the impression I hated this game because of this? Plus, I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks this... Next time you try to regurgitate a meme, try to make it apply Do I seem mad at anything? Like I said, EVE wasn't marketed to you as a fluffy, 'we're all friends' kind of game. In choosing to play the game, you have to accept the risk. Otherwise, don't play. Did I give you the impression that I thought you hated the game? I'm just stating a fact way to be emo (u mad?) Did I give you Originally by: salva dore Cloak should not be AFK solution. What do you think? Originally by: AFK Cloaker
Elena Laskova	Posted - 2009.12.27 11:54:00 - [89] Originally by: d3vo I think risk factor is the worst part of EVE. I don't know how it goes for WOW or other MMOs...but EVE's risk seem to be pretty high. ... It's the consequences" that are a little higher than other games. The risks* in EvE are lower than any other MMO. It could be different. It should be different, because the game could be a lot more fun. But EvE is a game for risk-avoiders. The most successful players in EvE are the most cowardly.
lollerwaffle Sileo In Pacis THE SPACE P0LICE	Posted - 2009.12.29 10:28:00 - [90] Originally by: Elena Laskova It could be different. It should be different, because the game could be a lot more fun. But EvE is a game for risk-avoiders. The most successful players in EvE are the most cowardly. Only stupid or sadomasochistic people enjoy playing games they don't find fun. Also, examples of 'cowardly successful players'? No? Stop talking out of your arse then. Originally by: salva dore Cloak should not be AFK solution. What do you think? Originally by: AFK Cloaker

Elena Laskova	Posted - 2009.12.29 11:05:00 - [91] Edited by: Elena Laskova on 29/12/2009 11:06:48 EvE PvP: Blobs, 10 vs 1 Ganks, suicide ganks. At the first sign of trouble, run away. Obsessive focus on "ISK/hour", killboards, value of targets destroyed vs value of losses, number of kills registered in killmails, K/D ratios .... OIt's all carebear stuff. When I first started to play I was astonished to see that the notoriously evil and disruptive group "Goonswarm" were considered abberrant because they valued "controlling the battleground after the battle" over "most ISK destroyed in a battle". Why astonished? Because the game is adverstised as a PvP game, with the implication that it's about combat and player-owned territory. Yet a group which plays this way is considered bizarre, and universally hated for their playstyle. /lol. There's more "world PvP" combat in a 10,000-account WoW PvP realm than there is in EvE's 300K accounts universe. Most players strive to turn combat into a low-risk ("carebear") activity. By and large you've been successful. And because of that, the game is a lot less fun than it could be.
lollerwaffle Sileo In Pacis THE SPACE P0LICE	Posted - 2009.12.29 11:18:00 - [92] Originally by: Elena Laskova Edited by: Elena Laskova on 29/12/2009 11:06:48 EvE PvP: Blobs, 10 vs 1 Ganks, suicide ganks. At the first sign of trouble, run away. Only if you suck at PVP. Besides, who tells their gang to dock up while they engage this target in a 'SOLO HONOURABLE DUEL'? If you get caught by a 10 man gang, 90% of the time it's your own fault. Originally by: Elena Laskova Obsessive focus on "ISK/hour", killboards, value of targets destroyed vs value of losses, number of kills registered in killmails, K/D ratios .... OIt's all carebear stuff. I don't understand what point you're trying to make here. Originally by: Elena Laskova When I first started to play I was astonished to see that the notoriously evil and disruptive group "Goonswarm" were considered abberrant because they valued "controlling the battleground after the battle" over "most ISK destroyed in a battle". Why astonished? Because the game is adverstised as a PvP game, with the implication that it's about combat and player-owned territory. Yet a group which plays this way is considered bizarre, and universally hated for their playstyle. /lol. Go learn why people really hate goons instead of spouting out bull**. Originally by:** Elena Laskova There's more "world PvP" combat in a 10,000-account WoW PvP realm than there is in EvE's 300K accounts universe. If PVP was meaningless in EVE, there would be a lot more of what you call 'real PVP'. Up until the point where more people who play the game for its risk and consequences leave the game as it becomes stale and shallow like all other generic MMOs out there. Originally by: Elena Laskova Most players strive to turn combat into a low-risk ("carebear") activity. By and large you've been successful. And because of that, the game is a lot less fun than it could be. Agree. Solution? Don't join up with the blob. It's not compulsory. Originally by: salva dore Cloak should not be AFK solution. What do you think? Originally by: AFK Cloaker
CyberGh0st Minmatar Ara Veritas	Posted - 2009.12.29 21:15:00 - [93] At least the sound is good. Oh wait ... http://www.mmodata.net Favorite MMO's : DAoC SI-Era / SWG Pre-CU-NGE
Creedsface	Posted - 2009.12.29 23:56:00 - [94] 1. Sounds is fecked..... 2. The music is fecked.. 3. even if the music worked it would still be fecked its awefull and sounds like a casio keyboard.. 4. Missions are as much fun as watching ants feck 5. Railguns sucks ass.. 6. Some skills takes ages to complete.. Hmnn.. thats bout all i can think of atm TBH its a fun game it is what you make of it if u just wanna grind mish and lvl up offcouse your gonna burn out. The game has nothing to do with playing solo its all about multiplayer find some corp with some goals About the pvp complaint of blobs and ganks u will find that in anygame where you can lose huge amounts of ingame pixel money if your lose your ships. Quote: Quote: CCP FIX THE FECKIN SOUND ALL RDY WE PAY FOR THE GAME U SOBS
Mihali Gallente	Posted - 2009.12.30 00:29:00 - [95] #64 People on the forums post "Can I haz your stuffz?" Can I haz your stuffz? Stop messing with my slack, pinko. Praise Bob!
Forge Lag Jita Lag Preservation Fund	Posted - 2009.12.30 01:15:00 - [96] Edited by: Forge Lag on 30/12/2009 01:21:35 Originally by: Death4free It was designed for griefing and pvp hence the "its a cold dark universe" part. Despite ccp giving you massive buffs which ensure that relatively intelligent people are safe But it is exactly the "cold and dark" that keeps griefing in check. Or rather used to. The safety works for everyone, for carebears the same as for wardec grifers and pirate alts grinding L4s. In "cold and dark" people are happy they see another being to face the coldness and darkness together despite the fragility of such alliance, in EvE they just gank you for no reason. Today "cold and dark" means living amongst lawyer sharks and diseased dogs, not pioneering into unknown. "Real men play badminton, deep diving is for pussies." PvP 13373P33K unscrambled
Ranger 1 Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Vertigo Coalition	Posted - 2009.12.30 01:31:00 - [97] Quote: 4. Missions are as much fun as watching ants feck Link please. ===== If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you.
Creedsface	Posted - 2009.12.30 02:27:00 - [98] Originally by: Ranger 1 Quote: 4. Missions are as much fun as watching ants feck Link please. Just for you Somewhere they doin it Anyways Back to doin lvl 4s again....
MasterEnt	Posted - 2009.12.30 14:49:00 - [99] Edited by: MasterEnt on 30/12/2009 14:53:37 Originally by: PR0PHETOFDOOM 1) EVE isnt a game. 2) There is no reward for being logged on and doing stuff apart from grinding more isk 3) Eve isnt fun. Sure mining and missioning might be fun at the start. Just wait 4) You need Excel installed on your PC 5) You need 5+ Programs to be able to play eve effectivly 6) Eve trailers are lies 7) Jump bridges and all this sov stuff is bad. I <3 escorting freighters and working as a team to do somthing. No point in this anymore 8) i cant think of anything else atm :) Because EVE requires math skills and some people cannot even count to TEN or strategize forum posts to make sense.
Joe Stalin Unknown-Entity Initiative Mercenaries	Posted - 2009.12.30 23:58:00 - [100] Originally by: PR0PHETOFDOOM 1) EVE isnt a game. 2) There is no reward for being logged on and doing stuff apart from grinding more isk 3) Eve isnt fun. Sure mining and missioning might be fun at the start. Just wait 4) You need Excel installed on your PC 5) You need 5+ Programs to be able to play eve effectivly 6) Eve trailers are lies 7) Jump bridges and all this sov stuff is bad. I <3 escorting freighters and working as a team to do somthing. No point in this anymore 8) i cant think of anything else atm :) 1) Funny, I fly around in an internet space ship PEW PEWing any non-blue in front of me... shooting missiles, jamming their targeting... This certainly is sounding like some sort of game so I'm not sure what I'm missing here 2) Uhh, like I said when I'm logged on I'm PEW PEWing as many people as possible, what other reward is CCP supposed to be giving me? Is a pizza supposed to be automatically delivered on every login? 3) If all you know how to do is mining and missioning, then yeah Eve isn't fun. But that's only cause you are a moron only doing mining and missioning when those activities are only intended to support the more important PVP aspect of the game. Meaning YOU ARE DOING EVE WRONG 4) Excel? What would I put into Excel that the kill board doesn't already track? 5) I run Eve client #1, Eve client #2 for alt, voice com app. Doesnt' seem too cumbersome. 6) Eve trailers show the all important PVP side of the game, which you obviously are too scared to try. Ads showing only idiot carebears who constantly complain about a game they are too afraid to play to its fullest wouldn't attract any customers. 7) There is plenty of teamwork left in this game that doesn't involve escorting freighters. How about you actually try going somewhere that first isn't high sec and second isn't a place your friends haven't already made perfectly safe for you already.

Psiri	Posted - 2009.12.31 00:56:00 - [101] Edited by: Psiri on 31/12/2009 00:56:30 My list. 1) The need for vast ammounts of SP and dedication in order to make the game enjoyable (for me at least). 2) The complete disregard CCP shows for lowsec, with this the lack of targets in lowsec. 3) The profitability of Empire and moons. 4) The lack of proper support for anti-aliasing. 5) The lack of ship balance and downright silly changes at times, Naglfar anyone? 6) The scam-spam in EVE chats and contracts. I don't mind the scamming, just the spamming really. 7) T2 BPO's, even if most T2 items are probably produced via invented BPC's. 8).. err.. missions and mining being boring 9) .. . wormhole space being cleared out too quickly.. err I don't even live in WH space but err.. 10) ..err.. . .. .WHERE'S MAH wALKING IN STATIONS??!?! Became difficult to come up with reasons towards the end there...


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