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Angus McSpork Caldari	Posted - 2009.12.28 05:44:00 - [31] The best way to get at him is the blow up your wrecks after he gets close to them. Since he can't tractor them he has to slowboat it to them. I usually wait for them to get within 6km or so and then pop the wreck they are closest to. A few missions of this and he'll be wasting his time so he should leave. Since you're gonna lose out on the loot when he steals it, just provide him the same courtesy of him 'losing' said loot and he'll move on. BTW, ninja tears >> all other tears.
Sorr Hor	Posted - 2009.12.28 07:18:00 - [32] I believe the easiest way to salve the problem would to be setting a lock on the Deadspace gate. When you accept the mission, you are given a deadspace specific key that only will let the keyholder in. Solves the problem with gankers trying to ruin the game experience for a select few/many :-)
Vherr Arkhar	Posted - 2009.12.28 09:42:00 - [33] Being a highsec carebear myself this might sound weird but: I'm totally for stealing and ninja-looting being a viable 'part time job'. I'd like salvaging to trigger aggression though. Even if only 1/100 cases causes a pvp fight - this might actually add to the gaming experience. I think that people who get scanned too much shoul consider either to change the system or to htfu ;)
Tippia Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2009.12.28 11:02:00 - [34] Originally by: Sorr Hor Solves the problem with gankers trying to ruin the game experience for a select few/many Not quite. It solves something that isn't a problem and creates a whole slew of far more damaging new issues, and also goes against the fundamental design of the game. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Trespasser Caldari Black Rise Minutemen	Posted - 2009.12.28 11:04:00 - [35] Hes not breaking the Rules man, As everyone in this thread has stated you can either kill him or not do missions for a day or 2 or switch mission spots and he will get bored and try and kill someone else This is EVE, This is not WoW CCP will not hold your hand when a big bad pvper wants to kill you or scam you or hunt you down etc. Unless he says hes going to kill you in the real world theres not much you can do but move on or deal with it. if this is to much to handle please contract me your stuff and go reactivate WoW
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2009.12.28 11:12:00 - [36] Please leave EVE. Or at least stay off the forums. The last things the devs should do is change the game mechanics to pander to those who are incapable of doing simple things to help themselves... like moving out of the crowded mission hub you surely live in, or changing your ship name so this so-called stalker doesn't know which one of the 45 ravens on scanner is yours. Signed, a highsec mission loving carebear P.S. In the likely event this was a troll, I hope somebody at least learned something from it. But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
KA StarLifter	Posted - 2009.12.28 11:35:00 - [37] I do not agree that dead-space missions should be hidden from all others, but perhaps the mission goal loot item(s) could be better protected. Of course - then we'd be reading complaints of people with second accounts, or buddies, who could not access the mission-goal loot and whines about slow-boating the mission-character over to the loot just to get it. To some degree, all aspects of Eve MUST have a way to screw with, or screw, other people. OP, move to a far-away mission system, like for another race, and I'm willing to bet that your aggressor will not follow you - especially if you have to grind level 1 and 2 missions to get standings.
Akiba Penrose	Posted - 2009.12.28 11:38:00 - [38] This mechanic is allready in game. If you fit your ship in such a way that; sensor strength > Signature radius, and dont use drones, your mission will be safe. And as others have pointed out, there is lots of other ways to deal with ninja salvagers.
Lady Shera	Posted - 2009.12.28 11:51:00 - [39] Simple, move to a new location a few jumps from where you are now and find a new Agent to work with.
Bouchement	Posted - 2009.12.28 13:21:00 - [40] Originally by: Wet Ferret Please leave EVE. Or at least stay off the forums. The last things the devs should do is change the game mechanics to pander to those who are incapable of doing simple things to help themselves... like moving out of the crowded mission hub you surely live in, or changing your ship name so this so-called stalker doesn't know which one of the 45 ravens on scanner is yours. Signed, a highsec mission loving carebear P.S. In the likely event this was a troll, I hope somebody at least learned something from it. THIS. I'm a total carebear, I have yet to PVP, and have been ninja looted once. The guy started a convo, said "I'm here for the loot", and I said ""go for it". Not sure why he wanted L3 small/cruiser wrecks, but hey... why not. Hilarity ensued when I flew past him towing a new spawn, then warped out. When I returned 15 minutes later, there was a new wreck on the scene. Epic. So yeah, I'm a little annoyed by this thread's OP as well as amused by his tears. There are SO many options regarding being "harrassed" it's ridiculous. I absolutely call shenanigans on being stalked in a game so massively big with so many players.

Fat Willy	Posted - 2009.12.28 13:23:00 - [41] As a regular L4 mission runner, I got fed up with raiding can-flippers so decided to see how its done - wanted to understand my enemy better. I checked out the tutorial video and gave it a try myself - I was surprised how easy it is to locate a mission runner. Any ship located away from planets, gates or stations will be running a deadspace mission for sure. I used a covert ops frigate, warped in cloaked and the guys I scanned down mostly never knew I was there... I was surprised what I found, realised that most other players still save all the salvage until they have killed everything, then warp back to the station to get a salvage ship. Brilliant! De-cloak when they warp out, flip the cans and pinch the high end stuff, then warp off when they come back. Easy peasy and you don't even risk combat. When I did get spotted, no-one shot at me even when I was criminally flagged - it just became a race for the cans! So if you're running L4's solo, these days you gotta recover loot and salvage as you go - especially the bigger ships loot and mission critical stuff like the damsel. And use a marauder - you can fit 3x tractor beams/salvagers without compromising firepower and they have twice the cargo capacity of a normal bs.
KaiserSoze434	Posted - 2009.12.29 19:12:00 - [42] I propose an even smaller change to the game. You grow some balls. Suicide gank the prick or move to a new hub. "Aghast the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is."
WarlockX Amarr Free Trade Corp	Posted - 2009.12.29 20:09:00 - [43] Problems solved by your idea: People "annoying" you in a mission Problems Caused by your idea: Low Sec Missions are unscanable 0.0 Missions are unscannable Pirate Arc Risks are completly broken Invincible safe spots can be created for weeks at a time in low sec and 0.0 that only you and your gang mates can warp to You can hide capital ships, titans, command ships carriers to assign fighters. Yes, this idea is brilliant let's break the whole game ----------------------------------------------- Free Trade Corp - Flash page
Miyuki Shirafune Hedion University	Posted - 2009.12.30 10:20:00 - [44] ITT yet another whine / troll about ninja-salvagers and how they are RL s****and bad, bad people because they steal what is rightfully 'mine;' OP as usual doesn't listen to advice but continues to whine. GTFO to Hello Kitty Online
Sub Prime	Posted - 2009.12.30 12:24:00 - [45] I'm ok with ninja salvaging as a profession (however much of a pita they are). What is think is a bit 'wrong' is the risk vs reward aspect though. Their risk is miniscule because the missioner knows that if he/she pops them they'll lose out ISK by being popped by CONCORD. What I'd like to see (it'd spice up highsec a bit too) would be ninja salvagers having to do it in bigger ships because once they salvage a wreck, they get an aggro timer of say 2 mins. During this time ONLY the mission ship that created the wreck may shoot the ninja. Likewise, if the ninja salvager get aggressed by the missioner they'd be free to fight back. Also, the aggro timers are automatically reset if any ship docks (to stop either the missioner or salvager going and getting a more pvp related ship). Basically, you come with what you're prepared to fight with. This would have the following advantages: For the missioner: Allows them to fight back without fear of CONCORD or a standing hit if they want to. For the salvager: Allows them to get a higher chance of PVP action in highsec outside FW. For everyone else: Livelier local chat! In many cases I doubt the missioner would even try and fight back as they'd be too carebear. The big thing though is that it would force ninja salvagers to man up and use ships that can take a pounding and use PVP fits. As mission ships would be unlikely to have warp scramblers/disruptors, the ninja salvager would only really have to survive 1-2 volleys if they didn't want to fight back. Probably millions of holes in the above but hey-ho :) Allow them to fight back withouyt fear of CONCORD or a standing hit if they want to.
Trader MaryAnn	Posted - 2009.12.30 17:16:00 - [46] Tippia's posts are a solid proof that logical thinking still does exist amongst some of us. Thank god I'm not the only one.
Borun Tal Minmatar	Posted - 2009.12.30 18:28:00 - [47] Problem: whiny toon doesn't like getting targeted or mission salvage taken (assuming high-sec, since OP said nothing about going Boom! and still has his shiny ship) Solution: don't run missions in heavily populated, popular mission hubs. Problem solved. Next?
Seishi Maru The Black Dawn Gang	Posted - 2009.12.30 18:39:00 - [48] until someone waits you undock and bump you away from station then keep you bumping making you impossible to dock.. for HOUR.. and repeat it every day... always looking for you and only you to do that.. you have no harassement. Only that type of behavior is considered harassement. What those guys are doing is part os HIS gameplay. Aand YOU are trying to limit HIS freedom to enjoy the gameplay of scanning and interferign on high sec missions, that is a valid eve gameplay.
Ammandon	Posted - 2009.12.31 00:45:00 - [49] make wrecks flag players like it should be thats the only change that is needed
Maximus Sentius	Posted - 2009.12.31 00:56:00 - [50] I actually like the idea of some deadspace missions requiring a key. It would not require any change in mechanics, fits the backstory completely and would add an interesting element. Of course how did you get a key to the pirate/cultist/mad scientist's private piece of deadspace and who else has access to their own copy or copies? And in such cases make some accelleration gates destructable, they would be illegal in that space after all, that way when the missioner warps out to get his salvager the ninja can have a buddy blow up the gate so he can salvage in piece while the mission runner is unable to return.

Sub Prime	Posted - 2009.12.31 02:23:00 - [51] Hey, I didn't say ninja salvaging shouldn't be allowed - I'd just like a risk vs reward basis to it. If you have the nano-balls to be right infront of somebody and salvage the ships they destroyed then you should have the balls to 'man up' and have a fight. Screw the carebears that don't want a scuffle, I say if you try and steal from the ship I destroyed, I should have a non CONCORD chance of a bit of pew-pew. I don't want the ninja to get sec status loss or anything like that, I'd just like him to but his balls where his salvager is. High sec is boring enough without losing the chance to kill space waste.
Tippia Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2009.12.31 02:42:00 - [52] Originally by: Sub Prime Hey, I didn't say ninja salvaging shouldn't be allowed - I'd just like a risk vs reward basis to it. I assume that you'll also want salvaging to be dangerous to mission runners? After all, it wouldn't make sense if it was safe for one group of salvagers but not for another. See, the whole "risk vs. reward" argument, when used in the salvaging context, tends to rest on the incorrect assumption that the mission runner faces some kind of risk by running the mission, and that the salvage is part of the reward for that risk. It's not. Those risks are already being covered by other rewards – the salvage is not part of the deal. So my question is: what added risks would there be for the mission runner to make him earn the salvage under this proposed scheme? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Lord Xantoh	Posted - 2009.12.31 10:31:00 - [53] Edited by: Lord Xantoh on 31/12/2009 10:33:44 Originally by: Cordial Reloaded my problem exacly and since i dont respond to his stealing he continues to steal all the loot and salvage all the good wrecks... and if all u think that is not harrasemnt think as of a real thing, how would u feal if u grwew some flowers in ure yard and some dude will constantly come and pick them up after they bloom and all your work would be in vain. think about it thanks Having seen both sides of the game (mission running and piracy), I can only say that both mission running and piracy are two lucratives professions. What do you do with the dude stealing your flowers? You call the police who will deal with it or you ask him friendly in front of others to stop what he is doing then you smash his face with the best garden gear you have. :) In your case, you petition the guy who constantly scans you down and griefs you (griefing is not allowed). He will be dealt with. Or you ask for some help from anti-piracy corps (there are some working for free) who will also deal with it. Last but not least, YOU deal with it yourself. :) This is a MMO where player interaction is encouraged so DEAL WITH IT. If you prefer no player interaction in this game, you may prefer to play X3 Reunion, which is just like Eve but Single Player version.
Sub Prime	Posted - 2009.12.31 13:07:00 - [54] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Sub Prime Hey, I didn't say ninja salvaging shouldn't be allowed - I'd just like a risk vs reward basis to it. I assume that you'll also want salvaging to be dangerous to mission runners? After all, it wouldn't make sense if it was safe for one group of salvagers but not for another. See, the whole "risk vs. reward" argument, when used in the salvaging context, tends to rest on the incorrect assumption that the mission runner faces some kind of risk by running the mission, and that the salvage is part of the reward for that risk. It's not. Those risks are already being covered by other rewards û the salvage is not part of the deal. So my question is: what added risks would there be for the mission runner to make him earn the salvage under this proposed scheme? Wrecks are a by product of missioning (the risk) and therefore the missioner has more 'ownership' than any other party. This is shown by the fact that a 3rd party looting the wreck will start the 15 minute aggression timer. I'm aware that salvaging is doesn't initiate an aggression timer, but just wanted to demonstrate that wrecks are 'created' by the missionersrisk, not the salvagers. The risk is that if the missioner wants to scare away the ninja salvager, he/she will have to shoot him/her and then potentially suffering the consequences of starting a PvP engagement. The salvager will either have to salvage in a ship that's a match PvP wise for the missioners ship and look at fighting back, leave if he/she is shot at or just hope that the missioner is too carebear to respond. All in all, it would allow for more CONCORD sanctioned high sec engagements. It would make mission runners either choose more PvP mission running fits if they want to defend the salvaging or stick to PvE fits and hope that the wrecks don't get ninja salvaged. For the ninja salvagers, it'd mean they either fit to deal with the potential of the missioners aggression or just hope that the missioner wimps out. Remember that a decently fit PvP salvager would have a considerable advantage over a similar ship with a PVE fit. There would be risk for both parties as long as the missioner wants the salvage for him/herself enough.
Tippia Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2009.12.31 16:06:00 - [55] Originally by: Sub Prime Wrecks are a by product of missioning (the risk) and therefore the missioner has more 'ownership' than any other party. CCP disagrees. Wrecks are purposefully not yours to enable salvaging as a mini-profession. There is no "more" or "less" ownership, the is just "all" or "none." In addition, the risk the mission runner faces in the mission is completely irrelevant because that risk is already being rewarded through the reward/bonus/loot/standing/LP/bounties bundle. Again: the "risk vs. reward" argument hinges on the incorrect assumption that salvage is part of the mission rewards and that adding risk should only affect the ninja; that the MR has already paid his risk dues by doing the mission; and that choosing whether to engage or not is the same risk as automatically getting aggression. In essence, the fallacy in this argument is that, just because you can do both at once, salvaging is assumed to be a part of mission running, when the two are if fact two completely separate different activities. By that logic, ninja salvaging is already hideously risky because you could fall for a contract scam while doing it. Quote: The risk is that if the missioner wants to scare away the ninja salvager, he/she will have to shoot him/her and then potentially suffering the consequences of starting a PvP engagement. You're missing the point: you want to make salvaging risky – it is a separate activity, remember, and needs to be balanced within the confines of its own context. You want to make it so that if a ninja salvages a wreck, the person that created that wreck gets aggression rights. The question is, who gets aggression rights if the person that created the wreck salvages it? Are you suggesting that salvaging would create some limited local GCC within (say) the grid, but without CONCORD response – salvage, and anyone nearby is allowed to shoot you? After all, if you want to add risk vs. reward to salvaging, you have to add it to all salvaging. As it is, right now, the risk vs. reward are exactly the same for every party involved: the risk is that someone else might get there first, and the reward for not being slow is the salvage. In terms of effort vs. reward, right now, the MR has the better deal: in both cases, the reward is the salvage; for the MR, the effort involves scooting over to within 20–40km of the wreck; for the ninja, it involves scanning down the site and travelling to within 5–7km of each and every wreck. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2009.12.31 16:18:00 - [56] They need to get rid of can flagging to get rid of this crazy idea that "NPC drops something = it's mine". Or at least get rid of it for anything except jettisoned cans since it was jetcan miners that got the crap implemented in the first place. But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
Veritaal	Posted - 2009.12.31 17:56:00 - [57] POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS - Go to a new agent/set of agents. Highly populated systems have ninja salvagers, fact of life. - If you have a spare hi-slot, slap a salvager in there. It works really well for me, but then again I am fighting Angels, who are more than happy to come within 2 KM - Get crafty During my brief stint in one of the major mission hubs, I felt the cold sting of the ninja salvager. I can't attack them, but the mission rats certainly can! So I started ignoring the piddly stuff (Frigates, cruisers) until I was done with the mission. That way, if someone dropped in while I was busy, I could warp out and those fast moving, fast tracking, and beefed up lvl 4 rats would be already in position to pounce! One of two things would happen from here. Either I would warp back 30 seconds later and all the rats would be right where I left them, minus the salvager. And once or twice, I would warp back and find the shattered wreck of someone's salvaging boat . Granted, a ninja salvager's ship is probably worthless. But I like to think that when these guys scanned down the U.S.S. Bad Idea, they remembered me and decided that their time was better spent on real carebears.
Testy Kills	Posted - 2009.12.31 18:37:00 - [58] When I'm in a mission I generally salvage as I go. Some missions are harder to do this to than others. In the instances where a ninja-salvager appears, I wait to see which wreck they head to and destroy it right our from under them. My philosophy; if I can't have the salvage then no one can. Most ninja-salvagers I've run into that I do this to generally leave after a couple of times and I still will have plenty of salvage. If not then we both go home empty handed. I had one guy can flip me and I did open fire on his frig and I insta-popped it. He warped off in his pod and after a moment or two I began to have one of "those feelings". I warped to the only station in system just in time to see the same guy undocking in his BS and I'm supposing, on his way back to me. I stayed docked and waited out the timer. If the OP, or anyone reading this sympathizes with and/or agrees with the OP and wants to be able to quietly run missions in peace and quiet; I suggest go find a nice quiet non-MMO/non-online game to go play where you'll never run into another living human being. Your problems (and they are your problems) will be solved.
Fat Willy	Posted - 2010.01.01 12:08:00 - [59] You're not being stalked. If you are running missions in the same system as he's scanning, he'll keep finding you. So go someplace else!
DrefsabZN Caldari Butterfly Effect Corp.	Posted - 2010.01.01 13:54:00 - [60] Originally by: Solomar Espersei 1) Go to another system, preferably one that is more obscure than your current system and has fewer players in it. Run your mission there. From what I've read, low sec missioning will not be the sort of thing you enjoy. 2) Get out of your warm fuzzy NPC corporation and join a strong player corp that can give you some back up when you need it. If you and your new corp mates make it hard enough on these players, they'll likely move on. 3) Train up Marauder and salvage/loot the cherry wrecks as you go. 4) Befriend a professional salvager to play along with you. 5) War dec the offending player's corp. 6) Fit your ship so that's it's much more difficult to scan down or train up for a T3. 7) Stop being the victim and fight back. There are numerous ways you can do so. Those options are some of the best you can do, or you could do what I did when this used to happen to me, someone comes along if he goes for your wrecks, blow the wreck up. That way your getting your isk from bounties and mission rewards etc, he is getting nothing and eventually will find someone else to bother. If he loots your loot blow him up then dock and come back in a pvp fitted ship. By not doing anything he's getting isk from salvage and maybe even steeling your loot, and he knows he's annoying you and that will make him do it all the more. On a side note he's probably doing that to a lot more people than just you.



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