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| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 48 post(s) |
Dramaticus
Goonswarm Federation
149
   |
Posted - 2012.06.22 03:40:00 -
[721] - Quote
Still waiting for the exploit to be pointed out |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3708
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 03:40:00 -
[722] - Quote
gulftobay wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:gulftobay wrote:Just a heads-up Richard Desturned, this thread was going more your way before you started posting. Don't you guys have guidelines or something? no, it was going more "our way" until the middle school day ended somewhere Ad hominem, now you're clutching at straws. So, back to exploits..
oh no when posting on a forum he did not adhere to strict rules of logical proof, which is a thing he was trying to do instead of mock a bad poster |
Exakt Kla'erlepi
Subach-Innes Engineering
5
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 03:44:00 -
[723] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:
guess what, determining whether they were indeed exploiting is up to CCP and their investigation is based on more than forum posts
True, I don't have the raw data and numbers, but I do believe I did show how well every word and sentences in a public statement can show proofs of using an exploit in this case. Sadly, anyway that CCP may slice it, it may just look bad.
In any case we will see tears from a bunch of people from different roles/factions/corps/alliances. |
InternetSpaceship
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
84
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 03:45:00 -
[724] - Quote
Aryth wrote:Nikodiemus wrote:The Goons were not really the first to think of this... It was a pretty obvious exploit for people that trade or deal with the market a lot. Thing is, manipulating game mechanics is different than manipulating the market and is bad mmkay? Ruins the games longevity. Props for actually taking the initiative and doing the work to pull it off though. Hope CCP remedies your gains though.
I would love CCP Dr. EyjoG to do a write up on this at some point.... or just hear his comments during the next fanfest. ^.^ We were the only ones to report it from what we can tell. So I think that bears remembering.
They won't remember, though, since it doesn't fit into the narrative of goons actively trying to destroy Eve.
They never remember the fact that goons got supercaps nerfed, despite the fact that we have dozens and they were a "Win Game" button. Goon higher ups profiting madly off of Tech are actively trying to get that nerfed too, so other corps can get rich off of it too, but of course, they don't think about that either. Nearly every situation like this has goons at the forefront warning CCP, but again, no one care.
Goons are intent on destroying Eve, contrary evidence be damned.
Official Recruiter for GoonSwarm Corporation.
If you paid isk to get into GoonSwarm, you were probably scammed.-á If you had the foresight to save the name of your scammer, let me know and I'll do what I can to help you. |
InternetSpaceship
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
84
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 03:46:00 -
[725] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:Marconus Orion wrote:This is about as much of a game exploit as Jade doing a forever war against goons.
It's not an exploit guys. Only likely difference is our lovely forever war is getting horribly and totally nerfed :(
No it isn't. War dec mechanics changing or not, in null sec, you don't need a wardec to come attack us.
Bring your allies and let's have us a war.
Official Recruiter for GoonSwarm Corporation.
If you paid isk to get into GoonSwarm, you were probably scammed.-á If you had the foresight to save the name of your scammer, let me know and I'll do what I can to help you. |
Apo Lyptica
nul-li-fy
RED.OverLord
5
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 03:49:00 -
[726] - Quote
OMG BURGER KING HAS BACON SUNDAYS ERRREY BUDDY GO BUY ONE |
Protheroe
UMEC
8
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 03:50:00 -
[727] - Quote
I think it's worth noting that back when the mechanics that made this possible were first announced, there were several responses to the Dev Blog that pointed out that this could happen. There were developer replies throughout that thread, and some issues that were raised were acted on. This one apparently was not for some reason, despite the potential seriousness of it. One could perhaps draw the conclusion from that that CCP didn't regard this as an issue and thought it would be fair play.
Clearly their reaction now shows that they do not think it's fair play, but they can't claim that this wasn't on their radar without acknowledging that they ignored the player feedback that they asked for.
Here are some of the relevant replies from early May, nearly two weeks before Inferno was deployed:
Protheroe wrote:I also agree that the LP payout formula for ship kills looks like it could potentially be exploitable at the moment, though that depends on how the terms in the formula are calculated, which isn't explained in the blog.
As Kusum Fawn said, if the 'Market Value' term for fitted and transported items is based on averages of actual market values, then it would be possible to pick some low value, rarely traded item, purchase all the available units in every region (not difficult for a cheap unpopular item), relist them all at massively inflated prices, wait for the new price to begin affecting the Market Average (perhaps trading the item a few times between alts), and then put the item on a ship in a rival faction and destroy it repeatedly to farm LP. If this kind of trick would require large amounts of ISK and organisation then it could perhaps be ignored, but if the formula applies to the market value of every item in the game then this would be trivially easy to do. The problem could be lessened by making the formula more opaque or introducing complicated terms to exclude outlier prices, but as long as the price is in some way tied to actual market values and covers a broad range of items, there will inevitably be holes in it and people will find a way to exploit them. |
InternetSpaceship
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
84
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 03:55:00 -
[728] - Quote
Cordially Yours wrote:Weaselior wrote:Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:Aryth wrote:Most people are myopic.
But not the Jewbal. What's a 'Jewbal'? a group of at least four but not more than 12 of the elders of zion Line crossed.
Oh ****, Weaselior, you pissed off Cordially Yours. It is most certain on now.
Official Recruiter for GoonSwarm Corporation.
If you paid isk to get into GoonSwarm, you were probably scammed.-á If you had the foresight to save the name of your scammer, let me know and I'll do what I can to help you. |
InternetSpaceship
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
84
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 03:57:00 -
[729] - Quote
Dramaticus wrote:Still waiting for the exploit to be pointed out
The exploit was goons playing the game in a way that doesn't involve whining to CCP to alter game mechanics in our favor. Same as always.
Official Recruiter for GoonSwarm Corporation.
If you paid isk to get into GoonSwarm, you were probably scammed.-á If you had the foresight to save the name of your scammer, let me know and I'll do what I can to help you. |
R0me0 Charl1e
Easy A Industries
33
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 03:59:00 -
[730] - Quote
Finally caught up with this thread and all I can say is good job Goonswarm!
Now it's back to beta testing DUST 514. |
gulftobay
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
56
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 04:03:00 -
[731] - Quote
Now that the 'pro' GSF team is here, any thoughts on what would be a reasonable solution to this mess?
Low self-esteem?-á Bored?-á-áLonely?-á |
Quaaid
ABOS Industrial Enterprises
20
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 04:05:00 -
[732] - Quote
Posting my jelly hate.
Puts my sub-billion, lonesome endeavors in perspective. |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1161
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 04:06:00 -
[733] - Quote
gulftobay wrote:Now that the 'pro' GSF team is here, any thoughts on what would be a reasonable solution to this mess?
banning NPC corps from the forums
a rogue goon |
Incindir Mauser
EVE University
Ivy League
8
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 04:06:00 -
[734] - Quote
InternetSpaceship wrote:Aryth wrote:Nikodiemus wrote:The Goons were not really the first to think of this... It was a pretty obvious exploit for people that trade or deal with the market a lot. Thing is, manipulating game mechanics is different than manipulating the market and is bad mmkay? Ruins the games longevity. Props for actually taking the initiative and doing the work to pull it off though. Hope CCP remedies your gains though.
I would love CCP Dr. EyjoG to do a write up on this at some point.... or just hear his comments during the next fanfest. ^.^ We were the only ones to report it from what we can tell. So I think that bears remembering. They won't remember, though, since it doesn't fit into the narrative of goons actively trying to destroy Eve. They never remember the fact that goons got supercaps nerfed, despite the fact that we have dozens and they were a "Win Game" button. Goon higher ups profiting madly off of Tech are actively trying to get that nerfed too, so other corps can get rich off of it too, but of course, they don't think about that either. Nearly every situation like this has goons at the forefront warning CCP, but again, no one care. Goons are intent on destroying Eve, contrary evidence be damned.
I like to think of the Goons as exuberant playtesters.
"Hey. Hey CCP. This thing over here might be _REALLY_ broken." say the Goons
"Ignore the man behind the curtain." says CCP
"Just saying bro." says the Goons
*Goons massively exploit broken mechanic they warned CCP about*
"Hey we told you so!" ~ Goons laughing as they roll in ISK
"That's a bad naughty Goon! Naughty! ... Bad Goon! Zimmer! Go to your room!", says CCP.
"It's Mittens! He's got a Kung Fu grip on CCP's nether region peculiars!", salivate the Mad Foil Hatters. ( That'd be a nice corp name. I'll have to snag that.)
In the end something broken gets fixed, the conspiracy nuts get some well needed and cathartic distress, and Goons roll in yet more money with which to provide the rest of us with "Emergent Gameplay".
Win-win-win? |
Dramaticus
Goonswarm Federation
149
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 04:09:00 -
[735] - Quote
Quaaid wrote:Posting my jelly hate.
Puts my sub-billion, lonesome endeavors in perspective.
We applaud all efforts, no matter how small, to defraud the common pubbie of his isk. |
gulftobay
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
56
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 04:10:00 -
[736] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:gulftobay wrote:Now that the 'pro' GSF team is here, any thoughts on what would be a reasonable solution to this mess?
banning NPC corps from the forums
Yeah, because my $14.95 a month is worth less than yours.
I'd recommend taking a break and letting some damage control take place here, from what I've seen your posts have only dug a bigger hole to dig out from for your alliance.
Low self-esteem?-á Bored?-á-áLonely?-á |
Doctor Benway Kado
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
161
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 04:11:00 -
[737] - Quote
gulftobay wrote:Now that the 'pro' GSF team is here, any thoughts on what would be a reasonable solution to this mess?
Nothing?
It's market manipulation, combined with currency exchange, combined with insurance fraud. None of these things by themselves are exploits. Combined together... they're still not exploits. If every intermediate action is legal, the final result is also legal. Moreover, while five trillion is a lot on a personal level, in the long run the effect of this will be smoothed out within a month or two. Twenty, thirty trillion isk? That would be a different story. But in the end, FW was changed to prevent this from happening, thanks to the very people who pulled it off. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3708
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 04:12:00 -
[738] - Quote
gulftobay wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:gulftobay wrote:Now that the 'pro' GSF team is here, any thoughts on what would be a reasonable solution to this mess?
banning NPC corps from the forums Yeah, because my $14.95 a month is worth less than yours. I'd recommend taking a break and letting some damage control take place here, from what I've seen your posts have only dug a bigger hole to dig out from for your alliance.
Your money and isk is just as good
Your opinions however... |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1161
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 04:15:00 -
[739] - Quote
gulftobay wrote:Yeah, because my $14.95 a month is worth less than yours.
I plex my accounts so it's anywhere from $17.95 a month or higher if the plex were originally purchased in GBP/EUR
so yes
a rogue goon |
Wolodymyr
Breaking Ambitions
Solid Foundation
168
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 04:23:00 -
[740] - Quote
Soooooooooooooooo what to do with all that money?
Might I suggest going to all the market hubs and buying all the materials, then start building a load of titans.
Granted the training time would probably be pretty brutal for every 2 month old character who just got into their first drake blob. It'd be easier to just tell all your carrier pilots to train Fighters 5 and get a pile of Nyxes.
Apo Lyptica wrote:OMG BURGER KING HAS BACON SUNDAYS ERRREY BUDDY GO BUY ONE You can't mix salty and sugary flavors that's just gross.
I honestly think PoCo based sov is a good idea
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1417544 |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1101
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 04:25:00 -
[741] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:gulftobay wrote:Yeah, because my $14.95 a month is worth less than yours. I plex my accounts so it's anywhere from $17.95 a month or higher if the plex were originally purchased in GBP/EUR so yes
How many accounts do you plex? I assume the other poster has 1 account subbed.
Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd
Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Antisocial Malkavian
GloboTech Industries
GloboTech Trade Federation
137
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 04:26:00 -
[742] - Quote
Doctor Benway Kado wrote:gulftobay wrote:Now that the 'pro' GSF team is here, any thoughts on what would be a reasonable solution to this mess?
Nothing? It's market manipulation, combined with currency exchange, combined with insurance fraud. None of these things by themselves are exploits. Combined together... they're still not exploits. If every intermediate action is legal, the final result is also legal. Moreover, while five trillion is a lot on a personal level, in the long run the effect of this will be smoothed out within a month or two. Twenty, thirty trillion isk? That would be a different story. But in the end, FW was changed to prevent this from happening, thanks to the very people who pulled it off.
Which is funny cause ANYTHING YOU DO IN THE GAME can be under this umbrella and CCP cant do jack.
Its funny how theyve lost control of their own game BY THEIR OWN RULES
lol
Hell, if I was them, Id be sitting back and laughing my ass off too.
http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1161
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 04:30:00 -
[743] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:How many accounts do you plex? I assume the other poster has 1 account subbed.
three
a rogue goon |
Nikodiemus
Jokulhlaup
32
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 04:31:00 -
[744] - Quote
InternetSpaceship wrote:Dramaticus wrote:Still waiting for the exploit to be pointed out The exploit was goons playing the game in a way that doesn't involve whining to CCP to alter game mechanics in our favor. Same as always.
You are really a terrible propagandist and give a good name to sub-par posters - even from Goon. Try harder drone. |
Degren
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1429
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 04:31:00 -
[745] - Quote
"BabyDegren" wrote:Probably not the place to say it, and I know I'll catch heat for it...but god damn I love Goonfleet.
My second post on the illustrious Eve-O forums, during the time of the ice interdiction.
This is on another level entirely. FUCKIN LU' YOU, DAWGS
You don't know. -á||| You really-ádon't know. |
Samej Arkanus
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
6
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 04:33:00 -
[746] - Quote
Confirming Aryth is the reincarnation of Dr. James Moriarty. |
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
427
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 04:36:00 -
[747] - Quote
So gives a ****?
In irae, veritas. |
gulftobay
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
56
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 04:37:00 -
[748] - Quote
I'm all for a reasonable discussion of the broken mechanics that were Inferno.
However, the original OP's boasts regarding exploits / bugs / illicit LP seem hard to ignore.
An above poster's comments regarding the future isk effect is worth consideration, titans for everybody in gsf?
I'm not necessarily looking for bans on anybody. But the cumulative effect of this seems out of kilter with intended game mechanics without doing something and I think a proactive approach is a viable alternative.
Low self-esteem?-á Bored?-á-áLonely?-á |
Mikelii
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
17
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 04:38:00 -
[749] - Quote
Richard Disturned follows his own rules. He's a man on the edge. He's going to be off this case if he doesn't calm down soon! We can't have any mad-dog posters in goonswarm. |
RuckaLucka Ali
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
7
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 04:45:00 -
[750] - Quote
gulftobay wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:gulftobay wrote:Now that the 'pro' GSF team is here, any thoughts on what would be a reasonable solution to this mess?
banning NPC corps from the forums Yeah, because my $14.95 a month is worth less than yours. I'd recommend taking a break and letting some damage control take place here, from what I've seen your posts have only dug a bigger hole to dig out from for your alliance.
ruining your $14.95 a month is why we play, 70% of goons dont even pay a sub fee why should we care about yours |
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