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Bomberlocks
Minmatar
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2010.02.26 10:18:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: Kail Storm
The reason I want the Snake is simply the LVL 5`s you cant do solo in any other BS....Lvl 5`s are very hard and they suck your cap extremely fast...You need passive so thats what im planning.
Ah ok. Being neuted in a Lvl5 is probably not fun in an active tank ship. I have heard of people soloing them in passive Ishtars, but I don't know how true that is.
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Bomberlocks
Minmatar
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2010.02.26 10:38:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Bomberlocks on 26/02/2010 10:38:17
Originally by: SFX Bladerunner
....
I agree.
Seriously guys, putting faction/better TANK modules on your ship and/or T2 rigs just for running lvl4 missions would be so stupid I can't even begin to express my sincere concern for your mental capabilities.
pimp rattler is made for lvl5 missions, that's all really.. That, or morbid pvpers with a very big wallet.
Oh, and also perhaps solo-wormholing... but that would be silly because you would get ganked immediatelly .. it would work though (you could put probe launcher and cloak in highslots)
I don't do this myself, but I've often enough seen people flying fantastically expensive faction fit Golems/CNRs around hisec for running lvl 4s. I don't personally care all that much, but if it works for them and they don't get ganked, all the power to them I say.
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Tyfuz
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Posted - 2010.02.26 11:13:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Kookie Snr
This isn't about missions really more a ship comparison, but I'll explain what I need the ship for to put it in context. I run a Dominix tank to accompany my main mission running ship, I use either ogre IIs or garde IIs and just have them set to assist my main.
Can the Rattlesnake get the same drone damage as the dominix, I've tried looking in EFT and although it would appear they should be the same, the Rattlesnake comes out a fair bit lower - could be i have an outdated version of EFT or just that I'm missing something?
I know the whole cost implication thing, but I wouldn't mind the rattlesnake for a ship to help when I solo the odd mission where I get ludicrous tracking disruption on my Paladin.
Thanks
Since this was your question "Can the Rattlesnake get the same drone damage as the dominix, I've tried looking in EFT and although it would appear they should be the same, the Rattlesnake comes out a fair bit lower".
Rattlesnake can not make as much damage as Dominix with drones. The reasons is that Dominix can use 3 rigslots and therefor using more midslots for Omnidirect or more rigslots for Drones. Both ships has the same dronesbay and can launch as many large drones but since rigs and midslots for dronedamage is more on Dominix, the Dominix can deliver more damage with drones.
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2010.02.26 12:54:00 -
[64]
Tyfuz said ô Rattlesnake can not make as much damage as Dominix with drones. The reasons is that Dominix can use 3 rigslots and therefor using more midslots for Omnidirect or more rigslots for Drones. Both ships has the same dronesbay and can launch as many large drones but since rigs and midslots for dronedamage is more on Dominix, the Dominix can deliver more damage with drones.ö
Your post doesnÆt make any sense and is wrong. A Rattlensake has way more mid slots for drone mods and the Rattlesnake has 3 rig slots. Due to the better tank the Rattlesnake has more free mods for drones on top of that the Rattlesnake has 7 mid slots.
There is no way a Domi can work out better with drone mods. My Rattlesnake has x3 Omni and x2 drone speed mid slot modules. That still leaves 2 mid slots.
5 to 7 drone mods on a Rattlesnake = more effective drone damage then a Domi.
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How to Passive Shield Tank T2
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2010.02.26 13:02:00 -
[65]
Tulisin Dragonflame said ôPassive shield tanking remains as good as it has always been.ö
Technically yes they are as good as always but in practise they are much better now. People used to warp out at 30% thinking it was unsafe to hold on longer. Now people warp out at 15 to 20%. Most people used to think passive tanks took a massive HP regen drop at under 30%. But the massive drop is not until way under 10%.
Kail Storm said ôAlso pots or anyone else, Does the amount of buffer added to a ship lets say the drake change where the peak of there passive tank works? Or is it a constant among all ships and with all differant mods?ö
It is constant among all ships and mods.
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How to Passive Shield Tank T2
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SFX Bladerunner
Minmatar
Black Serpent Technologies
R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.02.26 13:26:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Pottsey
Tulisin Dragonflame said ôPassive shield tanking remains as good as it has always been.ö
Technically yes they are as good as always but in practise they are much better now. People used to warp out at 30% thinking it was unsafe to hold on longer. Now people warp out at 15 to 20%. Most people used to think passive tanks took a massive HP regen drop at under 30%. But the massive drop is not until way under 10%.
Kail Storm said ôAlso pots or anyone else, Does the amount of buffer added to a ship lets say the drake change where the peak of there passive tank works? Or is it a constant among all ships and with all differant mods?ö
It is constant among all ships and mods.
That is, of course, a constant PERCENTAGE. if you put LSE's on your drake the ACTUAL shield HP value at which you achieve peak recharge changes naturally.
(just thought I'd post this to prevent confusion.. god knows there's enough of that in this thread)
__________________________________________________
History is much like an endless waltz, the three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.. |
Snyderm
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Posted - 2010.03.02 21:00:00 -
[67]
It seems to me that a big reason why the Rattlesnake is so superior is because the Shield purger Rig IIs only take -75 rig points. (According to EFT)
For instance, ANP IIs and NA IIs each take -150 rig points. Twice that much! Does that look right to anyone? Notice that the Armor Trimark Rigs also have -75 points. It looks to me like they are low to encourage PVP with more expensive ships. Interestingly, Purger Rig IIs are almost never for PVP.
Other than this, the Rattlesnake looks like a good ship that tanks a lot of damage but perhaps lacks damage capability to make up for it. (Torps max range of 45k at max skills maybe a bit problematic too).
How many of you would fly a rattlesnake if it could only use two Purgers? Contrast this to how amazingly limited the Navy Dominix is because it has no issues like this to exploit. Its rig slots are so useless a Navy Dominix is hardly worth the money.
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Tiruriku
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Posted - 2010.03.02 23:59:00 -
[68]
I've spent half my day in another post trying to figure out good AFK domi fits. The problem I kept running into was that while the tank is just fine for running L4's with proper aggro management if you want to aggro multiple groups / whole room intentionally and then let the drones have their fun the tank doesn't always hold up.
This is what I've been looking for. I love drones and had no idea there was a better drone battleship out there. I have just two questions:
1. I ran EveHQ and put together the build pottsey had on the first page but only get (yeah... only) 927 omni tank. Can I assume the 1000+ numbers require implants? I had it set to all L5 skills.
2. I currently use sentry drones on my dominix. I'm not really happy with it even though others swear by it. In order to get decent DPS I have to use 2x sentry rigs and 3x omni's (which really hurts the dominix tank and cap stability) and even then it still can't hit everything (with T2 sentries!). How do heavies feel with 2x drone navigation computers running? I've never tried fitting this module. Even though the rattlesnake has plenty of space to fit sentries do the extra mid slots, and use of the navigation computer, make heavies better? Or would those two slots be better used for something else and stick with sentries? I have Sentry 5, so I'm not sure if your fit was made because you didn't have that skill trained.
As a side note I've never done a passive tank built so all the calculations in this thread were quite interesting. Thank you in advance for any suggestions
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Kinroi Alari
Gallente
Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters
Ocularis Inferno
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Posted - 2010.03.03 00:30:00 -
[69]
I like the discussion between Pottsey and Entity --
I learned a bit.
I like my Rattlesnake for L4s; I use a mushy, low-resist passive tank with tech 2 extenders and active hardeners. I'd consider swapping to Pith A-Types and higher resists for L5s... though after reading Pottsey's comments I'd have to think about it.
But if I were going for economy on L4s I'd use an Ishtar or a Gila (I like and fly both, and tend to use them when I also want maneuverability). I still have an active armor tank Dominix and a passive shield tank Dominix, but I don't like those two as much as the others.
That's for high sec PVE missions, of course.
When I feel like PVPing I stick with tech 1 frigates and cruisers. ;)
(Well, and the occasional tech 2 Velator!)
--
Nam Sibyllam quidem Cumis ego ipse oculis meis vidi in ampulla pendere... |
Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2010.03.03 11:07:00 -
[70]
Tiruriku said ôCan I assume the 1000+ numbers require implants? I had it set to all L5 skills.ö
I have both the KYA2000 and the Sansha gnome passive tank implants which push me over 1000dps omni tanked. When flying with other people that goes over 1100dps or about 1200dps tanked if you have a mindlink implant.
Tiruriku said ôHow do heavies feel with 2x drone navigation computers running?ö
ItÆs not for everyone but I really like it. I can keep my ship moving towards gates or just moving to reduce damage taken. Sometimes due to the drone nav modules the drones will kill a target before they would have even arrived at the target without the mods. That and with the extra speed and tracking I find the hvy dones make good frig killers.
In the end the choice between Sentry or hvy drones is all down to user preference. There are times when Sentry work better and times when hvy work better.
One thing I like is with a black Eagle drone link I can hit out to 86km for full drone damage. With two links thatÆs over 100KM. Sentry cannot hit that far out without swaping to the lower DPS drones. When fighting at long range with hvy drones you really need those two drone nav modules.
Snyderm said ôHow many of you would fly a rattlesnake if it could only use two Purgers?ö
two purgers only drop my from over 1000dps omni to 778dps omni which is still more than enough for level 4 missions. I bet you could still get back up to 1000dps tank by swapping from an omni tank to a rat based hardener tank.
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How to Passive Shield Tank T2
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Phosphorus Palladium
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Posted - 2010.03.03 13:05:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Phosphorus Palladium on 03/03/2010 13:06:09
A dominix can sport a 1097 dps permanent active omni tank.
(without implants or gang link help)
Effective range of a dominix like this can be brought to 86km.
Aproximate cost is around 2.5 billion isk including hull, modules and rigs.
The rattlesnake in comparison may have a tiny advantage damage wise,
the main advantage of the rattlesnake however is its lower price when compared to the dominix mentioned above.
On the other hand, the rattlesnake may seem like a more juicy target to potential attackers than the tuned up dominix, since it is a faction ship.
Overall, if you have the isk to afford a well fit rattlesnake OR dominix, it comes down to personal preference which one of the two to choose.
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2010.03.03 13:13:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Pottsey on 03/03/2010 13:16:01
Phosphorus Palladium said ôThe rattlesnake in comparison may have a tiny advantage damage wise,ö
ItÆs not a tiny advantage. ItÆs very large. A lot of people are underestimating the impact drone modules have on effective DPS.
You can have siturations where the Domi and Rattlesnake have the same drone DPS but the Rattlesnake kills the target before the domi starts dealing drone DPS.
EDIT: I mean all things being the same, with the same drones on both ships then the ship with the extra drone mods is going to kill a lot faster.
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How to Passive Shield Tank T2
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Phosphorus Palladium
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Posted - 2010.03.03 13:26:00 -
[73]
As an example:
A dominix can field large hybrid railguns for range.
Combined with t2 wardens, the damage at around 60km will then be quite devastating.
The rattlesnake with torps will have less damage at this range, since torps do not hit so far and the omidirectional tracking links will not be able to make up for the difference.
But yes, I do agree that as an overall package, the rattlesnake has an advantage performance wise.
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2010.03.03 13:46:00 -
[74]
On the flip side the Rattlensake can fit Cruise which wonÆt be losing damage due to hitting in falloff or low DPS long range ammo. Then with all the tracking mods you can swap from Wardens to Garde or Bouncers both of which have better tracking and DPS. Ok thatÆs just short of 60km with basic tracking mods with Gardes but with navy ones thatÆs 67km and very nice tracking and we all know tracking boosts effective DPS. So both raw and effective DPS goes up.
I prefer hvy drones anyway and thatÆs the real reason why I prefer the Rattlesnake. A hvy drone Rattlensake just performs so much better then a hvy drone Domni.
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How to Passive Shield Tank T2
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Tiruriku
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Posted - 2010.03.03 17:28:00 -
[75]
Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions pottsey. This ship is exactly what I've been looking for. I love drones and like missiles but absolutely hate guns, so this ship is just perfect. For L5 missions it will make a marvelous primary tank and I can still use domi alt's to assist with their sentries using sentry damage rigs.
This thread really turned things around for me, I can't wait to fly it.
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GavinCapacitor
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Posted - 2010.03.09 20:42:00 -
[76]
In regards to all the "whats the max regent of shield / capacitor", if you play around you can actually get the ship info in the new fitting window to say "cap stable at XX%" such that 'XX' is under 30%. I have seen 28% personally (DC is good to fine tune this). I would assume this to be accurate since its from the same people who made and know the actual function.
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