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Why CCP prefer armor tank?

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John Blackthorn	Posted - 2004.11.19 18:07:00 - [91] I just wanted to re-state that I don't have any problems with people armor tanking and don't want to see it nerfed. The only issue I have is that the mwd 25% penalty to shields on Caldari (and other shield based ships) isn't fair. Consider a Caldari assult with say 700 shields and 200 armor and Ammar assult with 200 shields and 700 armor. the mwd really gimps the shield ship.. Fair would be no penatly to shields, or also put a %25 to armor (no i REALLY dont' want ot see this happen. As an alterntive and lesser damaging item would be a set amount of shields a mwd takes. So on a mwd 1 maybe it takes 200 shields. At least this penatly would be on all ships.. The percentage un-farily penatlizes a shild ship for using a mwd more than if somone is relying on armor. Well thats 2 cents worth :P -BT
John Blackthorn	Posted - 2004.11.19 18:07:00 - [92] I just wanted to re-state that I don't have any problems with people armor tanking and don't want to see it nerfed. The only issue I have is that the mwd 25% penalty to shields on Caldari (and other shield based ships) isn't fair. Consider a Caldari assult with say 700 shields and 200 armor and Ammar assult with 200 shields and 700 armor. the mwd really gimps the shield ship.. Fair would be no penatly to shields, or also put a %25 to armor (no i REALLY dont' want ot see this happen. As an alterntive and lesser damaging item would be a set amount of shields a mwd takes. So on a mwd 1 maybe it takes 200 shields. At least this penatly would be on all ships.. The percentage un-farily penatlizes a shild ship for using a mwd more than if somone is relying on armor. Well thats 2 cents worth :P -BT
Xtro 2	Posted - 2004.11.19 18:52:00 - [93] Originally by: Earthan Mongo you just backed my post , not proved it wrong. Its waht i was saying its because of the supreme capacitator and lasers on ammar ships. The megathron wich also in term of slots can armour tank very good isnt hot at all hmm?( havent haerd one " this tmpest suck gonna buy a mega" often" this mega sucks time for apoc") Its because not armour tanking makes ammar ships hot but supreme cap and lasers... Megathrons just as good as an apoc at armour tanking to infinity, i can run everything like an apoc can and not run out of cap, just my cap levels at 35% where as the apoc would level at 48-55%, i trained ages for caldari/raven only to find you massivly outperform in a armour tank, balance it and ill go back to my favourate ship. And dont give me any crap abour repair times, i can run 2x repairers and outlast combat my raven could only handle for <3minutes best with the beat gear and i have all relevant skills at level 5 in engineering. Armour tanks win, end of story. __________________________________________ Hell is nothing more than an office with fluorecent lights.
Xtro 2	Posted - 2004.11.19 18:52:00 - [94] Originally by: Earthan Mongo you just backed my post , not proved it wrong. Its waht i was saying its because of the supreme capacitator and lasers on ammar ships. The megathron wich also in term of slots can armour tank very good isnt hot at all hmm?( havent haerd one " this tmpest suck gonna buy a mega" often" this mega sucks time for apoc") Its because not armour tanking makes ammar ships hot but supreme cap and lasers... Megathrons just as good as an apoc at armour tanking to infinity, i can run everything like an apoc can and not run out of cap, just my cap levels at 35% where as the apoc would level at 48-55%, i trained ages for caldari/raven only to find you massivly outperform in a armour tank, balance it and ill go back to my favourate ship. And dont give me any crap abour repair times, i can run 2x repairers and outlast combat my raven could only handle for <3minutes best with the beat gear and i have all relevant skills at level 5 in engineering. Armour tanks win, end of story. __________________________________________ Hell is nothing more than an office with fluorecent lights.
Oveur	Posted - 2004.11.19 18:58:00 - [95] Originally by: Dathias Edited by: Dathias on 18/11/2004 13:14:55 Hi Why CCP prefering armor tank as material defense and not shield as energy defense? Armor modules has better stats then eqv. shield modules, NPC uses armor tank too. Armor tanked ship is totally better then shield tanked ship (shield tanked ship is a little bit useless). Why armor as material based defense did not use materials for repair ? Why CCP hate shields ? Because real men fly Apocalypses and Armagedddons, like I do. But like somebody said, this one time, at bandcamp, it was the other way around. It'll get tuned again if I know TomB right _____________________________ I say hey sky, s'other say I won say, I pray to J I get the same ol' same ol.
Oveur	Posted - 2004.11.19 18:58:00 - [96] Originally by: Dathias Edited by: Dathias on 18/11/2004 13:14:55 Hi Why CCP prefering armor tank as material defense and not shield as energy defense? Armor modules has better stats then eqv. shield modules, NPC uses armor tank too. Armor tanked ship is totally better then shield tanked ship (shield tanked ship is a little bit useless). Why armor as material based defense did not use materials for repair ? Why CCP hate shields ? Because real men fly Apocalypses and Armagedddons, like I do. But like somebody said, this one time, at bandcamp, it was the other way around. It'll get tuned again if I know TomB right _____________________________ I say hey sky, s'other say I won say, I pray to J I get the same ol' same ol.
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.11.19 19:18:00 - [97] Shield tanking and amrour tanking can only be balanced if ECM becomes hi-slot. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.11.19 19:18:00 - [98] Shield tanking and amrour tanking can only be balanced if ECM becomes hi-slot. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
0seeker0	Posted - 2004.11.19 19:20:00 - [99] I just knoooooooooooooow that answer isnt going to go down well. San. Character "Widescreen" is a scammer; beware. Check my bio for a list of known scammers.
0seeker0	Posted - 2004.11.19 19:20:00 - [100] I just knoooooooooooooow that answer isnt going to go down well. San. Character "Widescreen" is a scammer; beware. Check my bio for a list of known scammers.
Earthan	Posted - 2004.11.19 19:39:00 - [101] Originally by: Xtro 2 Originally by: Earthan Mongo you just backed my post , not proved it wrong. Its waht i was saying its because of the supreme capacitator and lasers on ammar ships. The megathron wich also in term of slots can armour tank very good isnt hot at all hmm?( havent haerd one " this tmpest suck gonna buy a mega" often" this mega sucks time for apoc") Its because not armour tanking makes ammar ships hot but supreme cap and lasers... Megathrons just as good as an apoc at armour tanking to infinity, i can run everything like an apoc can and not run out of cap, just my cap levels at 35% where as the apoc would level at 48-55%, i trained ages for caldari/raven only to find you massivly outperform in a armour tank, balance it and ill go back to my favourate ship. And dont give me any crap abour repair times, i can run 2x repairers and outlast combat my raven could only handle for <3minutes best with the beat gear and i have all relevant skills at level 5 in engineering. Armour tanks win, end of story. Ok then solve me plz this mystery why everybody changes to caldari ship or ammar ship and never to gallente?Hell many persons even change from gallente to ammar. Stars, stars like dust, all around me....
Earthan	Posted - 2004.11.19 19:39:00 - [102] Originally by: Xtro 2 Originally by: Earthan Mongo you just backed my post , not proved it wrong. Its waht i was saying its because of the supreme capacitator and lasers on ammar ships. The megathron wich also in term of slots can armour tank very good isnt hot at all hmm?( havent haerd one " this tmpest suck gonna buy a mega" often" this mega sucks time for apoc") Its because not armour tanking makes ammar ships hot but supreme cap and lasers... Megathrons just as good as an apoc at armour tanking to infinity, i can run everything like an apoc can and not run out of cap, just my cap levels at 35% where as the apoc would level at 48-55%, i trained ages for caldari/raven only to find you massivly outperform in a armour tank, balance it and ill go back to my favourate ship. And dont give me any crap abour repair times, i can run 2x repairers and outlast combat my raven could only handle for <3minutes best with the beat gear and i have all relevant skills at level 5 in engineering. Armour tanks win, end of story. Ok then solve me plz this mystery why everybody changes to caldari ship or ammar ship and never to gallente?Hell many persons even change from gallente to ammar. Stars, stars like dust, all around me....
Jakal	Posted - 2004.11.19 21:14:00 - [103] well for the sake of balance lets put a -10% speed reduction on shield extender. what? i though the theme of this was to give stupid half thought through suggestions? -Adapt and Overcome.
Jakal	Posted - 2004.11.19 21:14:00 - [104] well for the sake of balance lets put a -10% speed reduction on shield extender. what? i though the theme of this was to give stupid half thought through suggestions? -Adapt and Overcome.
Znaei	Posted - 2004.11.19 22:12:00 - [105] Ok, low slot Cap relays decrease the effectiveness of shield boosters. Why not make med slot cap rechargers decrease the effectiveness of armor repairers? I use armor tanking aswell, but I can see that armor tanking is by far better than shield tanking. clagnuts> im drunk just come back from pirates night in spain , wtf i thought it was some eve guys getting together for a drink , turned out to be a feken real pirates show , doh
Znaei	Posted - 2004.11.19 22:12:00 - [106] Ok, low slot Cap relays decrease the effectiveness of shield boosters. Why not make med slot cap rechargers decrease the effectiveness of armor repairers? I use armor tanking aswell, but I can see that armor tanking is by far better than shield tanking. clagnuts> im drunk just come back from pirates night in spain , wtf i thought it was some eve guys getting together for a drink , turned out to be a feken real pirates show , doh
0seeker0	Posted - 2004.11.19 22:26:00 - [107] Because cap rechargers dont have as good an effect on cap as relays, so its not fair to make them even worse. San. Character "Widescreen" is a scammer; beware. Check my bio for a list of known scammers.
0seeker0	Posted - 2004.11.19 22:26:00 - [108] Because cap rechargers dont have as good an effect on cap as relays, so its not fair to make them even worse. San. Character "Widescreen" is a scammer; beware. Check my bio for a list of known scammers.
DigitalCommunist	Posted - 2004.11.20 00:09:00 - [109] Originally by: Oveur Originally by: Dathias Edited by: Dathias on 18/11/2004 13:14:55 Hi Why CCP prefering armor tank as material defense and not shield as energy defense? Armor modules has better stats then eqv. shield modules, NPC uses armor tank too. Armor tanked ship is totally better then shield tanked ship (shield tanked ship is a little bit useless). Why armor as material based defense did not use materials for repair ? Why CCP hate shields ? Because real men fly Apocalypses and Armagedddons, like I do. But like somebody said, this one time, at bandcamp, it was the other way around. It'll get tuned again if I know TomB right What the hell is he doing now anyways? Isn't it his job to balance modules and combat? In exodus there are only two new ship classes to balance, while we still got the issue of frigates and cruisers being useless without greater-than-cruise-missle speed, as well as projectiles being crap, hybrid eating more cap than lasers. EH!? _____________________________________ Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning. "Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf
DigitalCommunist	Posted - 2004.11.20 00:09:00 - [110] Originally by: Oveur Originally by: Dathias Edited by: Dathias on 18/11/2004 13:14:55 Hi Why CCP prefering armor tank as material defense and not shield as energy defense? Armor modules has better stats then eqv. shield modules, NPC uses armor tank too. Armor tanked ship is totally better then shield tanked ship (shield tanked ship is a little bit useless). Why armor as material based defense did not use materials for repair ? Why CCP hate shields ? Because real men fly Apocalypses and Armagedddons, like I do. But like somebody said, this one time, at bandcamp, it was the other way around. It'll get tuned again if I know TomB right What the hell is he doing now anyways? Isn't it his job to balance modules and combat? In exodus there are only two new ship classes to balance, while we still got the issue of frigates and cruisers being useless without greater-than-cruise-missle speed, as well as projectiles being crap, hybrid eating more cap than lasers. EH!? _____________________________________ Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning. "Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf
0seeker0	Posted - 2004.11.20 00:18:00 - [111] Um seeker waves hand in the air hybrids use more cap than lasers? how so? San. Character "Widescreen" is a scammer; beware. Check my bio for a list of known scammers.
0seeker0	Posted - 2004.11.20 00:18:00 - [112] Um seeker waves hand in the air hybrids use more cap than lasers? how so? San. Character "Widescreen" is a scammer; beware. Check my bio for a list of known scammers.
Shamis Orzoz	Posted - 2004.11.20 00:25:00 - [113] Originally by: 0seeker0 Um seeker waves hand in the air hybrids use more cap than lasers? how so? San. I haven't checked the numbers recently, but with the ship bonus's that amarr bs's get I believe they use less cap than their corresponding hybrid given a certain level of amarr bs.
Shamis Orzoz	Posted - 2004.11.20 00:25:00 - [114] Originally by: 0seeker0 Um seeker waves hand in the air hybrids use more cap than lasers? how so? San. I haven't checked the numbers recently, but with the ship bonus's that amarr bs's get I believe they use less cap than their corresponding hybrid given a certain level of amarr bs.
0seeker0	Posted - 2004.11.20 00:33:00 - [115] Edited by: 0seeker0 on 20/11/2004 00:36:40 yikes, thats bad. It is always cap trouble i have in gallante, and i have to think real carefull before using a mwd. Its enough to make me want to use ammarr, i tell you. All that juicy cap.... San. Character "Widescreen" is a scammer; beware. Check my bio for a list of known scammers.
0seeker0	Posted - 2004.11.20 00:33:00 - [116] Edited by: 0seeker0 on 20/11/2004 00:36:40 yikes, thats bad. It is always cap trouble i have in gallante, and i have to think real carefull before using a mwd. Its enough to make me want to use ammarr, i tell you. All that juicy cap.... San. Character "Widescreen" is a scammer; beware. Check my bio for a list of known scammers.
RollinDutchMasters	Posted - 2004.11.20 00:48:00 - [117] Change the 5% cap capacity bonus of the apoc and the 5% RoF bonus of the arma to a 5% tracking bonus for lasers. That would bring apocs more in line with other ships in terms of tankability. It would also help with weapon balance, since lasers seem to have been balanced with no DoT bonuses in mind, and then a RoF bonus was added to the arma. Alternatively, change the 5% cap bonus of the apoc to a 5% bonus to armor HP, and change the 5% RoF bonus of the arma to a 5% tracking bonus. IMO, those two ship bonuses are causing the majority of the problems with armor/shield tanking balance. Originally by: Sochin CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
RollinDutchMasters	Posted - 2004.11.20 00:48:00 - [118] Change the 5% cap capacity bonus of the apoc and the 5% RoF bonus of the arma to a 5% tracking bonus for lasers. That would bring apocs more in line with other ships in terms of tankability. It would also help with weapon balance, since lasers seem to have been balanced with no DoT bonuses in mind, and then a RoF bonus was added to the arma. Alternatively, change the 5% cap bonus of the apoc to a 5% bonus to armor HP, and change the 5% RoF bonus of the arma to a 5% tracking bonus. IMO, those two ship bonuses are causing the majority of the problems with armor/shield tanking balance. Originally by: Sochin CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
MadGaz	Posted - 2004.11.20 01:02:00 - [119] Arma is fine, leave the bonuses, and it will more than likely run out of cap unless you have some tech2 cap rechargers. I wouldnt mind the Apocs bonus being changed to a more combat related one though. ------------------------------------------
MadGaz	Posted - 2004.11.20 01:02:00 - [120] Arma is fine, leave the bonuses, and it will more than likely run out of cap unless you have some tech2 cap rechargers. I wouldnt mind the Apocs bonus being changed to a more combat related one though. ------------------------------------------

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