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yani dumyat
Minmatar
Pixie Cats
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Posted - 2010.01.08 22:37:00 -
[31]
In addition to my last post, if you want to learn how to manually pilot a crow without paying for the inevitable losses then consider using a vigil as gang tackle fit like this:
auto cannons (for killing drones)
mwd / disruptor / cap booster
small armour repper / nanofibers
It handles like a crow and as gang tackle you'll get used to zipping about enemy gangs and evading fire, If you've got secondary tackle to hit targets with a web it's a superb setup for getting initial point and surviving till backup arrives.
 Originally by: Ammy Azimuth
Others above when they replied said that eft missile damage calculations is incorrect, and thus the crow is not as bad as previously thought.
The crow does have less DPS than other interceptors but mostly those other ceptors can only apply their DPS from inside scram/web/neut range, the pulse sader is an exception but still has less range than the crow making it harder to fight multiple opponents. Like everything it's a tradeoff.
Long range ceptors will generally do less applied DPS than a crow due to tracking, the exception here is AB frigates traveling in a straight line.
In practice anything with a MWD will be worn down eventually but when AB frigates travel in a straight line there is a very noticeable drop in your DPS, Some active tanked AF's can become unbreakable in this state.
Always use faction ammo. I have a pimp fit that will hit 100 eft dps without overloading but cost 70 mill before implants, though it killed many times that isk worth of AF's before it died in a flaming ball of stupidity.
Originally by: Justin Depunani
I personally love the Malediction. Faster than the Crow and still shoots missiles.
Care to share your malediction fitting? I've only just trained for it so am intrigued to see how others are using it.
Originally by: Tau Cabalander
EFT warrior-ing:
Not far off how i fitted a crow when i started flying them but i've learned since then:
Agility > Speed (though speed is still important). You live and die on the ability to keep someone between 13km and 24km, vs fast frigates you will spend more time turning and accelerating than traveling at top speed.
Crow has good shield regen, small extender will give you a better tank than a booster that you don't have the cap to run.
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Lifeboat ----> + Human |
Ammy Azimuth
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Posted - 2010.01.08 22:43:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Ammy Azimuth on 08/01/2010 22:46:23
Wow. Superb info. Thanks a bunch yani. So other interceptors you cannot face at all? How effective is the crow at taking out drones?
And is it possible just to manually fly everything in order to be able to face other interceptors or is that too much twitch to handle?
What are the chances of kills you'll get for specific target types? t1 Frigates that can't catch up to you are easy to figure out. Like bleeder punishers standard rifters and all that would die to this crow. AF's do you just outlast them right with taking out their drones and whatnot and then just staying out of range.
Should one invest in a low grade snakes or high grade snakes or deadspace mwd? What about adding a ballistics control into it? Or would that drop speed too much?
I was playing aroudn putting some autocannons in the crow fits to try to get guns to take out drones easier, and toying with the idea of doing a scram and a disrupt for thsoe frigs trying to escape in inties. After missiles wear them down enough you go in for a kill with autos and scram to take out their speed. Or is that totally insane?
That was great info though.
edit: Oh also wanted to know if eft damage lies? And is missile damage really as bad as it says or its different in game?
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Raimo
Gam3rs For Lif3
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Posted - 2010.01.09 00:30:00 -
[33]
Makes sense Yani, a good writeup. Tho IMO a Ranis and even the Nanosader can also kill most of your target selection while also posing a good threat to most other ceptors. Though both (especially the Ranis) are more vulnerable to small gangs ofc.
That being said these days it's all about the faction frigates ;)
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Ammy Azimuth
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Posted - 2010.01.09 00:43:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Raimo
Makes sense Yani, a good writeup. Tho IMO a Ranis and even the Nanosader can also kill most of your target selection while also posing a good threat to most other ceptors. Though both (especially the Ranis) are more vulnerable to small gangs ofc.
That being said these days it's all about the faction frigates ;)
You talking about the dramiel and slicer? Aren't worried about sig bloom though?
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yani dumyat
Minmatar
Pixie Cats
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Posted - 2010.01.09 00:48:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Ammy Azimuth
How effective is the crow at taking out drones?
Depends on the target, vs a single cruiser you can just orbit and as long as you've got a small extender there's plenty of time to kill 5 warrior II's unless they've got good tracking and you're taking turret fire.
VS a gang most drone damage can be evaded if you're willing to drop point but the moment you turn to keep point your shields will vanish. Fortunately most gangs will hang about to fight you because you're just a frigate 
It's not unusual to get a gang of cruisers to field 15 or more light drones and the trick is to exploit the drone speed difference between players, (going back to the sphere diagram i linked earlier) travel in a wide manual orbit round the sphere so you have a tail of drones and kill the closest ones first.
Try to always have someone pointed as you move round the gang but don't worry too much about dropping point unless they are aligned and trying to warp out, in which case your targets will be likely to recall their drones (good) or warp out without them (bad, though you might get to scoop some T2 drones :).
If they don't look like they're going to warp out a nice trick is to burn 150km away from the belt/planet then warp back in to the fight. By the time the drones have caught up with you each targets drones will be separated in to a different group. Beware of bonused drone boats but don't be afraid to test their drone skills while aligned and ready to GTFO.
If you're group tackle rather than solo it'll involve a lot more 'hold point and pray'.
Originally by: Ammy Azimuth
And is it possible just to manually fly everything in order to be able to face other interceptors or is that too much twitch to handle?
It's possible but very difficult, the problem is that rockets suck. If we had a good short range weapons system it would be a different story but the days of the plate fit rocket crow are long gone. With a long range weapons system you can only kill what you can kite.
Originally by: Ammy Azimuth
What are the chances of kills you'll get for specific target types?
T1 frigs shouldn't be underestimated as they will likely have greater tank and gank than you, a competent rifter with mwd, mse and scram is a tough fight because of its speed though most T1 frigs can be dispatched without worry.
AF's are so varied it's hard to give an overview, drones should be primaried in any situation regardless of your target. Mostly it's about exploiting the resist hole and i have a piece of paper with the T2 resist types of each race stuck to my monitor.
Missiles are great because you can choose damage types but the crow gets very low dps weapons with a very big kinetic bonus so suffers more than most when using non bonused ammo, ships like the ishkur can take a very long time to die. Each tiny bit of DPS you can eek out of your crow will help here.
Cruisers are slow and helpless unless they're specifically fitted for anti frigate work. Some of the most heart wrenching novels were written by cruiser pilots waiting for a crow to finish killing them.
Originally by: Ammy Azimuth
Should one invest snakes?
Snakes are nice but by no means essential, i've never owned a set and get by fine with 3% missile implants.
Originally by: Ammy Azimuth
I was playing aroudn putting some autocannons in the crow....is that totally insane?
It's insane but crazy and unusual fits are a good thing 
Originally by: Ammy Azimuth
eft damage lies?
Can't help you on this, if you're that fussed about paper stats then check out this thread
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Lifeboat ----> + Human |
Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.01.09 01:00:00 -
[36]
So about crow
- i think it permaruns with named mwd with perfect skills so deadspace mwd isnt necessary
- you definately want bcu /and you want dcu in gang to take some drone damage/
- in gang you also want td /or other ewar, tp maybe/, i consider small extender waste
- eft damage "lies" when your target is mwd inty or ab frig - to see actual dps look at the damage graphs for crow vs other inty, you wont be happy /you can raise your effective dps on target with tp, crash, faction webs, rigors...but it still much less than eft dps/
- crow have nice range - BUT if you want to use full disruptor range, its easier for your target to gtfo, and if you want to be sure that he doesnt warp, you are making it easier for him to catch you - and lets face the truth - ranis or sader need only 10-15s to kill you
- also the speed difference isnt so big, that you can comfortably kite other inty - and you cant fight with overheated mwd for a long time /but battle will be long because of your loltastic dps/
- crow vs drones - missiles just suck vs drones, you kill them maybe 50% slower than sader, another bad thing is that you cant fit mse without gimping your fit
- crow vs t1 ab frigs - maybe puni can tank you, others usually cant, but it will still be long fight, so be prepared to gtfo when cavalry shows, but usually you can kill them all
- crow vs mwd t1 frigs - mwd rifters and vigils are most dangerous, if you can kite, you will kill them faster than ab frigs /less damage mitigation/
- crow vs afs - almost every af can tank crow for a LONG time /some jag fits can perma it for example/
- crow vs inties - very stressful experience, but you can win without a scratch on your shields if you are pro at piloting /snakes can help ofc lol/
Btw yani, some good suggestions, but vs 3 cruisers you wont do anything unless they are ******s/noobs.
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Ammy Azimuth
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Posted - 2010.01.09 01:02:00 -
[37]
I meant manually flying not in the scram range with rockets and plates, i meant in the 10km-20km range flying at 4-5km/s or more depending on if theres lots of targets. This would make it so that you aren't suceptible to orbit breaks and traps from overheat.
Oh, I got a good question. How's your overview setup? Do you list velocities of their ship and transversals? I was thinking of the radial velocity as when that is negative it means you're closing distance between your target.
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.01.09 01:21:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Lugalzagezi666 on 09/01/2010 01:27:21
Well i have to say even that dps graphs "lie" little bit - just because most of the time your target WONT be moving at top speed.
Id count with 70-80% of full speed.
If you are tackle for the gang, use tackle inty - 30km point makes some tackles much less stressful /fun?/.
And for inty gangs /tbh gang of 3 crows can be fun, solo its just pain/, id go for bcu fit with some ewar - tp or td.
For example td on crow makes it so easy to solo arty trasher...
[Crow, New Setup 1]
Overdrive Injector System II
Overdrive Injector System II
Ballistic Control System II
Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Warp Disruptor II
Standard Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile
Standard Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile
Standard Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile
[empty high slot]
Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I
Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I
[Crow, New Setup 2]
Overdrive Injector System II
Overdrive Injector System II
Pseudoelectron Containment Field I
Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters
Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I
Warp Disruptor II
Standard Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile
Standard Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile
Standard Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile
[empty high slot]
Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I
Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I
I used something like that, im not sure about rig/od/nano combinations.
And i heard crow works good with faction webs, but never tried that.
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Shak'Rah
The Unforgettables
Talos Coalition
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Posted - 2010.01.09 01:35:00 -
[39]
long story short of all these long long posts is this: if you know what you're doing ranged inties are very effective
i myself prefer to use a kiting ishkur or comet; you can wtfbbq anything with an AB
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Imperfection is beauty, madness is genius, and it is better to be absolutely ridiculous than absolutely boring. |
Raimo
Gam3rs For Lif3
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Posted - 2010.01.09 07:48:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Ammy Azimuth
Originally by: Raimo
That being said these days it's all about the faction frigates ;)
You talking about the dramiel and slicer? Aren't worried about sig bloom though?
Also Comet and Daredevil, though I'm with the Dramiel fanboy crowd right now... With the Dramiel the sig bloom is mostly irrelevant, not sure about the Slicer as I haven't actually had time to fly it that much (despite it being pretty much my Sader on stereoids, I've mostly opted for the close range boats and fits now)
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Ammy Azimuth
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Posted - 2010.01.09 09:18:00 -
[41]
But all the frigs now are close range, its kinda so standard now. Hence why I was looking at longer range fits because they have more gtfo factor and seem more flexible, and not so all or nothing taranis style.
I look at the comet, looks like a ranis with more effhp. Daredevil is a ranis on serious roids. Amount of face melt is ridiculous. But yea, the ones that stand out to me are the dramiel since it flies really fast, good damage and range. And the slicer yea, looks like a crazy kiting machine with crazy optimals.
Just saying it feels all frigs are now close range under 9km scram range battles. And the price on some of those ships is absurd. Daredevil is like a hac price. Dramiel is still like 80m. Comet and slicer are slightly more reasonable, but they're still like 30-40m a pop.
You think your nanocrusader could take out a dramiel? Or is the dramiel just way too fast? The daredevil you gotta be warp of the overheated 90% web at 13km right? If they did faction web on a daredevil that'd be even more dangerous.
The thing I don't like about close range ships is the fact neuts ruin most of them. Unless they use projectiles which thus makes the dramiel the best of the pirate frigs.
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.01.09 11:11:00 -
[42]
Heh, sader vs dramiel...i saw few dramiels burning 10k/s and 3k with ab... and they still had enough pg/cpu to fit 7k buffer and neut.
That i call overpowered.
Daredevil is just gankboat /like omgwtfpwn/, that have easy times catching anything if its fitted with faction web. Dont be scared fit for 8-10k buffer and neut the **** of it.
Slicer is actually good /170dps at 24k/, but its slower than sader and have serious cpu issues /and med guns tear it apart at 24k/. Tracking isnt big problem since you are keeping at range and not orbiting.
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Raimo
Gam3rs For Lif3
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Posted - 2010.01.09 11:54:00 -
[43]
My Dramiel, Slicer and Daredevil (at least the faction web fit :p) would easily kill my nano-Sader, not sure about the Comet as it's that close to a Ranis in performance (but better), and all of them would kill my Ranis. And they all (including the Sader and Ranis) kill nearly all other ceptors and T1 Frigs and many T2 frigs (and many cruisers).
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Ammy Azimuth
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Posted - 2010.01.09 19:16:00 -
[44]
Does that mean the faction ships obsolete inties? Since they are such superior ships? That's a bit too much power though isn't it? But then again you're paying for the additional performance.
But, yea if you look at pure stats they kick the ass out of any frigate.
Can you think of any tactics that would be able to beat a faction ship?
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Exitar Stormscion
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Posted - 2010.01.10 06:10:00 -
[45]
I use beam crusader similar to what you posted and i enjoy it. Its fun dont have that much problems tracking.
Mortal in body
Eternal in will. |
Raimo
Gam3rs For Lif3
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Posted - 2010.01.10 06:43:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Ammy Azimuth
Can you think of any tactics that would be able to beat a faction ship?
There are always counter fits and counter tactics... That being said the new buffed faction frigs are suprinsingly nice, they indeed obsolete ceptors and AFs a bit but IMHO the pricetag compensates it quite well, and for specialized roles like gang tackling the pure ceptors are still better (suitable bonuses and *much* more cost effective in a suicidal role).
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Morel Nova
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.01.10 11:42:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Ammy Azimuth
Does that mean the faction ships obsolete inties? Since they are such superior ships? That's a bit too much power though isn't it? But then again you're paying for the additional performance.
But, yea if you look at pure stats they kick the ass out of any frigate.
Can you think of any tactics that would be able to beat a faction ship?
you hurt quite a bit when having to burn with mwd on faction frigs if anyone on the field has missiles (not a huge issue for dramiels since they are so fast) but its a bit of a problem with comets. when there are multiple missile boats around I miss my ranis mwd sig reduction.
Reward small gang/solo pvp!
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