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P3rv3rt	Posted - 2010.01.11 14:40:00 - [1] Edited by: P3rv3rt on 11/01/2010 14:41:54 Edited by: P3rv3rt on 11/01/2010 14:41:39 ...derp derp Lamo falcon pilot spoils mah day again. This time solo falcon jams a carrier with 2 eccm and sensor strength of 204!!! Tiny falcon jams huge carrier with mods that are supposedly meant to counterbalance the ECM - FAIL! To hell with 3 bil loss, or the bucket of tears that followed but I wants a counter to that noob "IWIN" button. I think ECM needs rework from random jam to actually go above sensor strength before being able to jam targets OR introduce another module for OPTICAL TARGETING. Even the Russians have this on their MIG29s, instead of using the radar and alerting the prey of them tailing them, they have optical targeting. Considering we are in space and there are no objects obstructing the view I don't understand why we don't have something. ECM is the only IWIN button of all the Electronic Warfare, r3tarded! For ****s and giggles, here is my cry mail http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=9125047
Agent Gunn Gallente Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2010.01.11 14:52:00 - [2] Link doesn't work for me..also, your story makes me want to train for falcon :)
Nightmaric Bellum Venator	Posted - 2010.01.11 15:08:00 - [3] Copypaste the link for a hefty Kronos kill... Hard luck on getting jammed, but it's a chance based mechanic. Your 204 sensor strength doen't make you immune
Saphyire	Posted - 2010.01.11 15:21:00 - [4] Lets try 'bull****' out for this one. A 204 sensor strength Carrier could not have feasibly bbeen killed by a solo falcon. My falcon with nearly maxed ECM skills, two strength rigs, and 2 SDA2 clocks in around 15 jam strength with T2 faction jammers. This would give me a (204/15)%, around ~12.6% with each jammer. Even if I had a full rack of 8 jammers, I'm still going to miss a jam half the time. You have fighters which would then instapop said falcon. I think a much more likely story (if this is even real, and not just another ECM whine thread - your link doesn't work) is that you were likely ratting at the time, or afk with npc aggro, and some hapless falcon happened on past and got the kill. This is really the only thing I can imagine happening, as a falcon's piddling dps wouldn't even break your shield recharge in most cases... but who knows, maybe you went afk for an afternoon and this falcon somehow had enough dps to break a carrier. Cool story bro.
Baraka Saibot	Posted - 2010.01.11 15:32:00 - [5] I think you linked the wrong killmail. That's a kronos, getting ganked, and no falcon on the killmail.
Nightmaric Bellum Venator	Posted - 2010.01.11 16:18:00 - [6] Maybe the carrier was assisting the Kronos, which died due to lack of reps?
Duchess Starbuckington	Posted - 2010.01.11 17:33:00 - [7] Originally by: Nightmaric Maybe the carrier was assisting the Kronos, which died due to lack of reps? It is worse than that, my friends. The pilots in that great battle were counting on it to secure that system, and all the wealth that came with it. They then planned to sell the ISK, likely sacrificing their accounts in the process, all for the real life cash to feed the starving orphans they adopted the previous week. because of falcon, those orphans will be going hungry. _________________________________
XIRUSPHERE Gallente The Aduro Protocol	Posted - 2010.01.11 20:22:00 - [8] Previously anonymous Ronja tears in my EVE?
Torus Nunn Amarr The Aduro Protocol	Posted - 2010.01.11 20:24:00 - [9] Your tears are delicious http://theaduroprotocol.com/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=4402
TimMc Gallente Trans-Solar Works Rooks and Kings	Posted - 2010.01.11 20:25:00 - [10] Originally by: Nightmaric Maybe the carrier was assisting the Kronos, which died due to lack of reps? Seems like it. Falcon pilot must be kicking himself for not getting on kill though.
Umbra Armanis Singularity. Talon Alliance	Posted - 2010.01.11 20:25:00 - [11] you know you loved it <3
Aria Moana Gallente The Aduro Protocol HellFleet	Posted - 2010.01.11 20:29:00 - [12] Hooray for Fail Faction guns on Mah Kronos. ----------------------------------------------- I want to get a full body tatoo of myself... Only taller.
Aria Moana Gallente The Aduro Protocol HellFleet	Posted - 2010.01.11 20:34:00 - [13] Here is the Killmail, then he rage undocked his abbaddon and lost it too. Lol http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=9125047 Abbaddon Kill ----------------------------------------------- I want to get a full body tatoo of myself... Only taller.
Mathias814	Posted - 2010.01.11 20:37:00 - [14] C'mon you gotta give us caldari somthing because everything else we have sucks!!
Rewt ed	Posted - 2010.01.11 20:48:00 - [15] Maybe you should triage your shield repping carrier, this will make you immune to ewar, decrease cycle time by 2 and increase rep amount by 2 and also negate having to use eccm mods. you got the short end of the straw, and it's kinda funny since you station camp with carrier reps and still lose 3b. but whatever happens happens. cheers
Hiroshima Jita	Posted - 2010.01.11 20:50:00 - [16] I have heard that you can stash an agressed ship in your carrier. Hulk pilots do it with orcas to avoid highsec suicide gankers. Instant solution to yourt problem. In the meantimes I hope someone DDDs your station hugging capitol.
St1ck	Posted - 2010.01.11 21:38:00 - [17] Hands up \o/ i was the Lamo Falcon Pilot and yes i felt real gutted after not getting on the KM, but reading this has more than made up for it Cry me a River It was not insta-ecm and took a few cycles from all 7 T2 racial ECM's till he lost lock but hey-ho Tiny Falcon done its job in the end
Ran Khanon Amarr Vengeance Innovations	Posted - 2010.01.11 22:00:00 - [18] Originally by: St1ck Hands up \o/ i was the Lamo Falcon Pilot and yes i felt real gutted after not getting on the KM, but reading this has more than made up for it Cry me a River It was not insta-ecm and took a few cycles from all 7 T2 racial ECM's till he lost lock but hey-ho Tiny Falcon done its job in the end Gratz. Nice one. @ OP: If a Falcon poses such a thread, better bring some friends along who can deal with them. You learned something and will be more prepared the next time around ... right?
Absolom Hues Gallente Sanctum Scala Caeli Rooks and Kings	Posted - 2010.01.11 22:11:00 - [19] Originally by: Ran Khanon Originally by: St1ck Hands up \o/ i was the Lamo Falcon Pilot and yes i felt real gutted after not getting on the KM, but reading this has more than made up for it Cry me a River It was not insta-ecm and took a few cycles from all 7 T2 racial ECM's till he lost lock but hey-ho Tiny Falcon done its job in the end Gratz. Nice one. @ OP: If a Falcon poses such a thread, better bring some friends along who can deal with them. You learned something and will be more prepared the next time around ... right? Prepared? No... whining on a forum is always the solution for fail, why prepare? ___ "Thats all I gots to say about that"
Balion rus Minmatar Hyasyoda Fun Club	Posted - 2010.01.11 22:12:00 - [20] Kronos fit is epic fail. Try to use 2 reps next time ;)
P3rv3rt	Posted - 2010.01.11 22:12:00 - [21] We love giving Aduro Protocol some pvp experience, thanks for the love. That 3 bil ship is not an issue, my tears dried up quick since isk is easy in Aulbres. That said, the issue with overpowered ECM and failing ECCM remains despite my biased opinion on the matter. Unfortunately the last falcon "nerf" taken the ship out of pirates use since it can't tank the sentries. Needless to say we will continue to kill noobs and carebears in mass with an occasional dissapointing losses. After soo many years of playing eve, only faction ships still remain any fun.
Muad' Dib Gallente Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2010.01.11 22:21:00 - [22] Edited by: Muad'' Dib on 11/01/2010 22:25:20 Originally by: P3rv3rt Edited by: P3rv3rt on 11/01/2010 19:01:10 ...derp derp Lamo falcon pilot spoils mah day again. This time solo falcon jams a carrier with 2 eccm and sensor strength of 204!!! Tiny falcon jams huge carrier with mods that are supposedly meant to counterbalance the ECM - FAIL! To hell with 3 bil kronos loss, or the bucket of tears that followed but I wants a counter to that noob "IWIN" button. I think ECM needs rework from random jam to actually go above sensor strength before being able to jam targets OR introduce another module for OPTICAL TARGETING. Even the Russians have this on their MIG29s, instead of using the radar and alerting the prey of them tailing them, they have optical targeting. Considering we are in space and there are no objects obstructing the view I don't understand why we don't have something. ECM is the only IWIN button of all the Electronic Warfare, r3tarded! For ****s and giggles, here is my cry mail http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=9125047 PS The carrier was remote-repping the kronos until the evil falcon appeared. Needless to say without the carrier reps the kronos couldn't tank sentries and all the gang attacking it solo. Sad story I know but the point of this thread is about WTF-ECM falcon strength against a Chimera with 204 signal strenth, moresome, there is NO MODULE TO COUNTER ECM. 1 - that's a terrible fit - mostly for what you were using it. 2 - only supercaps are invincible to jamming, you should of had more ECCM. 3 - it's better to post with your main than an alt you might want to keep secret if you are going to link your main anyway. PS: Even if probability is small, it still exists ... remember it.
MrMonster	Posted - 2010.01.12 05:29:00 - [23] Um lol. You gimped your carrier. my question is: why did you put a 3b ship in the line of fire and why did it have to rely on the carrier to survive? I smell noob tears.
XIRUSPHERE Gallente The Aduro Protocol	Posted - 2010.01.12 06:05:00 - [24] More tears for the tear god wahhhh http://cryhavoc.shade-corp.com/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=74147 My best regards to cry havoc o7.
PCaBoo Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2010.01.12 06:46:00 - [25] Originally by: XIRUSPHERE More tears for the tear god wahhhh http://cryhavoc.shade-corp.com/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=74147 My best regards to cry havoc o7. interestingly, all those mods were from the carrier we had ganked a few minutes earlier. Oh well, easy come, easy go. If it were just mindless ganking, piracy wouldn't be much fun. Losing a ship marks the contrast that makes ganking, that much more enjoyable. ________________________________ Stop nerfing everything!
Aria Moana Gallente The Aduro Protocol HellFleet	Posted - 2010.01.12 07:02:00 - [26] Links to the other carrier KM please. ----------------------------------------------- I want to get a full body tatoo of myself... Only taller.
PCaBoo Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2010.01.12 07:16:00 - [27] Edited by: PCaBoo on 12/01/2010 07:24:10 Meat KB Thanny from tonight Chimera from last night edit: failed @ linking. ________________________________ Stop nerfing everything!
Calydonian Boar	Posted - 2010.01.12 07:26:00 - [28] Heh after reading the first message, I was going to write that I don't believe a falcon can jam a carrier with double eccm that easily, and probably he is making up a story with rage. If archon was repping the kronos before falcon showed up, its armor wasn't even probably scratched, means he could have tanked those attackers until he could dock. Well killmail says he didn't do it. Honestly it doesn't look like you had an exit strategy mate and lost your ship blindly and if you keep going like that you will lose your carrier as well... ohh wait o0! Btw carrier had single eccm :) and it was tech1 meta 1 :)
King Rothgar Imperial Slave Hunter Society	Posted - 2010.01.12 07:39:00 - [29] Edited by: King Rothgar on 12/01/2010 07:39:35 carrier kill ^link to previous carrier that died. The capital mods on ronja's carrier were from that, we were inspecting damage at the time. I'm sure the loot was sh*t off that kill since all of them were overheated to a molten pile of veldspar. In any case, it was an interesting afternoon. Confirming ronja loses way too many ships. On the bright side, he's always primary no matter what anyone is in. In regards to the falcon issue at the heart of the thread, the carrier was repping the kronos and the carrier was jammed by a single falcon. The carrier itself did not die, well, not in that fight anyways. Despite the losses, our group has absolutely ended up ahead overall, even if you restrict it to the last few days with it's cringe worthy losses. Just for the record I was not present in the fight involving the kronos but I was there for the hotdrop in which ronja lost that carrier. As you can see from the carrier kill I posted at the top of this message I was also on the carrier we killed a few minutes prior. -----------------------------------------------------
PCaBoo Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2010.01.12 07:54:00 - [30] OP was not flying an Archon and repping his Kronos (obviously...). He was dual boxing; his main in the Kronos fighting and he had his alt in its own carrier remote repping. I'm sure he'll concede that he probably made a mistake engaging in that particular situation. I logged in like 2 minutes after the fact and the fight would've either not taken place or been another mindless gank in eve history. As for the original subject, I do think it's silly that a single falcon can jam a carrier with eccm's fitted, fairly easily. I don't really see any changes that are actually necessary tho... just a minor annoyance. I do miss having my alt sit 200km out, jamming folks if things got hairy. ________________________________ Stop nerfing everything!
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2010.01.12 08:10:00 - [31] Nice to see ecm is still viable in some situations. Oh and dont forget to whine about disruptors why a frig without bonuses for warp disruptors can keep the carrier from warping out :P Oh and keep up the good work loosing expensive ships+fittings.
Calydonian Boar	Posted - 2010.01.12 09:12:00 - [32] Originally by: PCaBoo As for the original subject, I do think it's silly that a single falcon can jam a carrier with eccm's fitted, fairly easily. I don't really see any changes that are actually necessary tho... just a minor annoyance. I do miss having my alt sit 200km out, jamming folks if things got hairy. That's exactly the problem of most of the so-called pvp'ers. When they get in battleships, the think they are badass, when they get in carriers they think they are godlike... It's just a ship with more sensor strengt BUT REMEMBER ECm works on probablity and like every other probability other there including you getting hit by a car on the street which is silly as well, it may be successful sometimes. Put it on eft! if a standard falcon with uniform ecms use every single one on carrier, it gets 33 percent of chance to jam it, which is 1/3.. so yes it can happen, and no falcon doesn't need any more nerf, instead eve needs smarter players.
Hedliner Gallente Total Mayhem. Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2010.01.12 13:19:00 - [33] Edited by: Hedliner on 12/01/2010 13:20:02 Originally by: Aria Moana Links to the other carrier KM please. Linkage Probably some more tears to shed, and the awefully fitted ships continue to bite the dust.
Saphyire	Posted - 2010.01.12 14:52:00 - [34] In the end, this is really just about failing at PVP, not about ECM cycles. The first missed jam cycle should have had you sending drones at the falcon. Obviously this isn't how things went down. I imagine that you saw your Kronos taking armor damage and were frantically swapping back and forth between your clients instead of properly puzzling out the problem. Live and learn, and please stop *****ing about ECM when you fail at pvp so utterly. Pew Pew.
Dr Fighter	Posted - 2010.01.12 14:56:00 - [35] the '3 bil kronos' had a tank less than that of a t2 fit, t1 rigged dual rep hyper. next time, use a hyper, and OMG fit eccm maybe. Yeah it only halfs your chance to get jammed, in a 1v1 wiht a falcon, with its 5-7 jammers focused on you, expect to get jammed still, even with 200+ strength. or get some freinds and a triage mod.
Calydonian Boar	Posted - 2010.01.12 15:00:00 - [36] change of topic request: Because I Fail
Sargine West	Posted - 2010.01.12 16:59:00 - [37] You were using the wrong module to counter ECM. Triage Module is what you wanted.
P3rv3rt	Posted - 2010.01.12 18:46:00 - [38] Originally by: Hedliner Edited by: Hedliner on 12/01/2010 13:20:02 Originally by: Aria Moana Links to the other carrier KM please. Linkage Probably some more tears to shed, and the awefully fitted ships continue to bite the dust. That wasn't my pvp carrier. This was my backup for logistics that i was trying to do a small test one before i got hotdropped. Chimera had 2 eccm.
Cuchulain Spartan	Posted - 2010.01.13 17:08:00 - [39] Did the RR carrier drop 10+ warrior II's or Sentries on the falcon and try force it off the field? Good jamming St1ck 0/
Digitally Enhanced Caldari	Posted - 2010.01.13 19:23:00 - [40] Originally by: P3rv3rt Edited by: P3rv3rt on 11/01/2010 19:01:10 ...derp derp Lamo falcon pilot spoils mah day again. This time solo falcon jams a carrier with 2 eccm and sensor strength of 204!!! Tiny falcon jams huge carrier with mods that are supposedly meant to counterbalance the ECM - FAIL! To hell with 3 bil kronos loss, or the bucket of tears that followed but I wants a counter to that noob "IWIN" button. I think ECM needs rework from random jam to actually go above sensor strength before being able to jam targets OR introduce another module for OPTICAL TARGETING. Even the Russians have this on their MIG29s, instead of using the radar and alerting the prey of them tailing them, they have optical targeting. Considering we are in space and there are no objects obstructing the view I don't understand why we don't have something. ECM is the only IWIN button of all the Electronic Warfare, r3tarded! For ****s and giggles, here is my cry mail http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=9125047 PS The carrier was remote-repping the kronos until the evil falcon appeared. Needless to say without the carrier reps the kronos couldn't tank sentries and all the gang attacking it solo. Sad story I know but the point of this thread is about WTF-ECM falcon strength against a Chimera with 204 signal strenth, moresome, there is NO MODULE TO COUNTER ECM. Let me guess. You were camping the kickout in aulbres. And the locals finally had enough of you? Its rock paper scissor, and the rock just beat you up. If you cant stand taking a little loss. Dont go to lowsec You really had it coming. Quit whining, and buy a new one. Dont repeat yourself. And dont camp the same kickout. again, and again Btw. Nice job Sky Tillian :) A shame the server crashed last time ;) \\Digi
Cuchulain Spartan	Posted - 2010.01.13 21:47:00 - [41] Edited by: Cuchulain Spartan on 13/01/2010 21:56:49 Originally by: P3rv3rt Edited by: P3rv3rt on 11/01/2010 19:01:10 ...derp derp Lamo falcon pilot spoils mah day again. This time solo falcon jams a carrier with 2 eccm and sensor strength of 204!!! Tiny falcon jams huge carrier with mods that are supposedly meant to counterbalance the ECM - FAIL! Sad story I know but the point of this thread is about WTF-ECM falcon strength against a Chimera with 204 signal strenth, moresome, there is NO MODULE TO COUNTER ECM. St1ck the falcon pilot says he was running racials which means with Recon 4 and decent skills he was getting approx 10 strength per racial ECM not including fleet boost or overloading. He also had a full rack of racial ECM fitted so thats 7 of them. ECM cycles every 15-20 secs depending on skill. So thats; 10 Strength ECM vs 204 Carrier Sensor Strength (10/204) Thats a 10/204 chance of jamming per ECM per cycle. So every 15-20 secs St1ck was putting out 7 X 1/20.4 chance of jamming you. In 1 minute thats between 21-28 X 1/20.4 chance of jamming you (without overload and fleet boost) Speaks for itself really as to why he jammed you, he just kept rolling his odds and got lucky. Also, once a jamming mod ends its 15 to 20 secs cycle then you are un-jammed and the EWAR pilot has to start rolling his dice for the EWAR Gods again. Arazu - Warp disruptor, remote sensor dampening bonus works every time Rapier - Web range, target painter bonus works every time Pilgrim - Tracking Disruptor, Energy Vampire,Energy Neutralizer bonus works every time Falcon - ECM bonus only works some of the time (role of the dice odds) You see, all the other Recons work first time every time, a Falcon has to get lucky. For these reason an EWAR pilot is forced to sacrifice dps, tank, speed, survivability to try increase his odds on being effective whereas the other recons can be successful in their given bonus field first time every time with just a single bonus mod fitted. You dont see any other Recons trying to get lucky with 6 webs fitted or 6 warp disrupts or 4 NOS/Neuts An "I Win" Button? I think not, if anything its underpowered compared to other Recons.
Meeko Atari	Posted - 2010.01.13 21:56:00 - [42] Originally by: Cuchulain Spartan Edited by: Cuchulain Spartan on 13/01/2010 21:53:14 Originally by: P3rv3rt Edited by: P3rv3rt on 11/01/2010 19:01:10 ...derp derp Lamo falcon pilot spoils mah day again. This time solo falcon jams a carrier with 2 eccm and sensor strength of 204!!! Tiny falcon jams huge carrier with mods that are supposedly meant to counterbalance the ECM - FAIL! Sad story I know but the point of this thread is about WTF-ECM falcon strength against a Chimera with 204 signal strenth, moresome, there is NO MODULE TO COUNTER ECM. St1ck the falcon pilot says he was running racials which means with Recon 4 and decent skills he was getting approx 10 strength per racial ECM not including fleet boost or overloading. He also had a full rack of racial ECM fitted so thats 7 of them. ECM cycles every 15-20 secs depending on skill. So thats; 10 Strength ECM vs 204 Carrier Sensor Strength (10/204) Thats a 10/204 chance of jamming per ECM per cycle. So every 15-20 secs St1ck was putting out 7 X 1/20.4 chance of jamming you. In 1 minute thats between 21-28 X 1/20.4 chance of jamming you (without overload and fleet boost) Speaks for itself really as to why he jammed you, he just kept rolling his odds and got lucky. Also, once a jamming mod ends its 15 to 20 secs cycle then you are un-jammed and the EWAR pilot has to start rolling his dice for the EWAR Gods again. Arazu - Warp disruptor, remote sensor dampening bonus works every time Rapier - Web range, target painter bonus works every time Pilgrim - Tracking Disruptor, Energy Vampire,Energy Neutralizer bonus works every time Falcon - ECM bonus only works some of the time (role of the dice odds) You see, all the other Recons work first time every time, a Falcon has to get lucky. For these reason an EWAR pilot is forced to sacrifice dps, tank, speed, survivability to try increase his odds on being effective whereas the other recons can be successful in their given bonus field first time every time with just a single bonus mod fitted. You dont see any other Recons trying to get like with 6 webs fitted or 6 warp disrupts or 6 NOS/Neuts An "I Win" Button? I think not. 60% of the time it works everytime
Beltantis Torrence Groovy Guns	Posted - 2010.01.13 21:58:00 - [43] The only positive thing I have to say about my falcon is I made a profit reselling it thanks to T2 inflation. Its a garbage ship now. I'd rather fly a blackbird or a rook.
Cuchulain Spartan	Posted - 2010.01.13 22:00:00 - [44] Originally by: Meeko Atari 60% of the time it works everytime I dont see any other Recons only working 60% of the time. Sub cap jamming against non eccm targets and you with maxed out ECM/RECON skills might get you that 60%.
Meeko Atari	Posted - 2010.01.13 22:10:00 - [45] Originally by: Cuchulain Spartan Originally by: Meeko Atari 60% of the time it works everytime I dont see any other Recons only working 60% of the time. Sub cap jamming against non eccm targets and you with maxed out ECM/RECON skills might get you that 60%. Umm...that line was from a movie ( Ancorman ) Sex Panther I just couldn't help myself

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